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WHY AM I NOT A CALVINIST?
REASON #1 Free will is not humanistic. It’s the Bible.
REASON #2 Jesus gave us the Great Commission?
REASON #3 Why reaching the lost if they were predestined to be lost?
REASON #4 God so loved the world!
REASON #5 People backslide by their own choices and free will
REASON #6 Grace is Resistible and many have fallen from grace
REASON #7 I am yet to meet a Christian saved NOT by his/her own personal free will choice!
REASON #8 God’s choice not to act graciously toward others
ALSO: Calvinism Critiqued by a Former Calvinist
John Kissinger [08/04/2015 12:20 PM]
Hey Pentecostal Theology would you put all 8 posts in one with their links so more people be saved by grace alone?
John Kissinger [08/04/2015 12:20 PM]
Charles Page here’s even more reasons: Calvinism Destroys God’s Justice https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/orthodoxyandheterodoxy/2014/01/10/why-i-stopped-being-a-calvinist-part-2-calvinism-destroys-gods-justice/
John Kissinger [08/04/2015 12:56 PM]
Thank you Jonathan Downie for liking this post. Many are not Calvinists b/c some LGBT believers claim God made them that way Charles Page
Pentecostal Theology [08/04/2015 3:12 PM]
Here we go: T-shirts are also free(wil)ly available http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/why-am-i-not-a-calvinist-ourcog-reason-1-free/
Charles Page [08/04/2015 3:16 PM]
send me a free tee and I will proudly wear it!!!
Varnel Watson
Ricky Grimsley William DeArteaga David Rollings Grover Katzmarek Sr Comments on Calvin from Dake’s discussions continue here. If you are not align with anyone of the above 8 reasons you are not really a Calvinist Alexandre Goncalves
My question had to do mainly with Calvin’s recessional pneumatology and postmil eschatology. Very few discussions argue against Calvin’s soteriology because it is not his but largely Augustinian and Eastern Orthodox. There’s no need to even mention Piper on Calvin since most have read or could read Calvin’s Institutes for themselves on which Piper is no authority. With this said, John Piper is a partial cessationist and not a complete Calvinist either. His explanations and merger between both theological systems is marginal and nonobjective. Roger Olson rejects this amalgamation of theological systems and presents a clear Pentecostal view which many agree with. Since this is not a discussion on Calvin, but Dake, my comments will be under the Calvin discussion above.
Alexandre Goncalves
I repeat: I am Calvinist in soteriology. Being Calvinist does not mean accepting everything that Calvin wrote. I accept what is clear in the Bible. And for me, unconditional election, the total depravity and redemption of the elect are bright spots in the holy scriptures.
Ricky Grimsley
Calvinism frustrates me and yet fascinates me. I love to listen to James White destroy people in debates. However, i have same problems with calvinists as i do with arminians. I am fond of a quote from james white “the only consistent arminian is an open-theist. “
Varnel Watson
Alexandre Do you agree with ANY of these? You are NOT really a Calvinist – WHY AM I NOT A CALVINIST?
REASON #1 Free will is not humanistic. It’s the Bible.
REASON #2 Jesus gave us the Great Commission?
REASON #3 Why reaching the lost if they were predestined to be lost?
REASON #4 God so loved the world!
REASON #5 People backslide by their own choices and free will
REASON #6 Grace is Resistible and many have fallen from grace
REASON #7 I am yet to meet a Christian saved NOT by his/her own personal free will choice!
REASON #8 God’s choice not to act graciously toward others http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/why-am-i-not-a-calvinist/
Alexandre Goncalves
I Believe:
T Total depravity.
U Unconditional election.
L Limited atonement.
I Irresistible grace.
P Perseverance of the
Alexandre Goncalves
Saints
Varnel Watson
Oh, brother Alexandre How can you be Pentecostal without FREE WILL 🙂
Alexandre Goncalves
Amém! Depraved as I am, as I am corrupt because of Adam’s sin, I could never choose something so good and noble as the Lord Jesus. He had to choose me (John 15:16) because I never choose. He is good!
Varnel Watson
He is good because He chose to give you a personal choice via free will – like he did with Adam and Eve Ricky Grimsley
David Rollings
The so called 8 reasons don’t really deal with true Calvinistic theology, after all the father of Modern Missions William Carey was a Calvinist. CH Spurgeon the great nineteenth century preacher and evangelist was a Calvinist. Surely that undermines any claim that Calvinist do not believe the great commission they do..I believe that Calvinistic theology is compatible with a belief in the empowering of the Holy Spirit.
Varnel Watson
Steve Jones from Auburn is a former Calvinist who pretenses a solid Calvinism Critiqued and the TULIP confession as heretical. Also, Calvin never wrote TULIP 🙂 It was a creation of his followers http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/openhse/calvinism.html
Grover Katzmarek Sr
It is not only his theology that bothers me but his influence that caused a man to be burned at the stake.
I also enjoyed the article of a Wednesday Crucifixion. The only sign Christ gave to the Jews and people try to explain away to come up with a Friday death.
Glad you posted that
Ricky Grimsley
Its insane to believe that A loving God chose to create a system where he would some how receive glory from beings who do only what he created them to do.
Varnel Watson
Ultra Calvinists use the term “theological schizophrenia,” though it’s best not to use such definitions
Grover Katzmarek Sr
If that was true He didn’t need to create us for He has that with the angels.
I’m thankful I don’t believe in
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Especially when the Word of God says He not willing any should perish.
Varnel Watson
Exactly. TULIP is a complete theological failure blamed on Calvin who really had nothing to do it…
Varnel Watson
David Rollings Please elaborate. Calvinism denies the work of the Holy Spirit in this present times? How can you then have Pentecost without the Holy Spirit? Isn’t that at least heretical?
Alexandre Goncalves
Your above reasons are fallacies because history shows that the Puritans were Calvinists who most spread the gospel throughout the world.
David Rollings
I am aware of the history of the development of the tulip idea at the Synod of Dordt. I have written on my blog about Reformed Theology and here is a link to one of my posts http://pneumaandlogos.com/2014/01/21/is-reformed-theology-a-grand-vision-or-just-a-tulip/
Ricky Grimsley
Irresistible grace is easily disproved. Obviously God is sovereign and could have created a world where no one can resist but they do. Maybe you can argue that predestination might apply to some like Paul but not to the average guy.
Varnel Watson
David and Alexandre There’s been a long going division in the Calvinist’s camp on accepting or rejecting TULIP. We will have to leave you to sort TULIP out before we continue to discuss if it even applies to Pentecostal Theology.
Alexandre Goncalves
https://youtu.be/3jvI4yWZrqg
David Rollings
The problem with TULIP is that it shackles Calvinists to certain terminology Calvin and most of his followers prefer to speak of effectual calling rather than irresistible grace.
Varnel Watson
Alexandre Please no more Piper – the guy is complete fallacy. Have you read any Roger Olson? http://www.academia.edu/1181701/To_Kill_a_Tulip_A_Review_of_Roger_Olsons_Against_Calvinism
Alexandre Goncalves
Pentecostals authors are very bad in soteriology. They are also bad in eschatology. I prefer Reformed writers.
Varnel Watson
Spoken like a true Calvinist who cannot amalgamate with Pentecostalism. Roger Olson has no bad in soteriology 🙂 Olson’s critique on Calvinism is solid – here’s the actual book http://www.amazon.com/Against-Calvinism-Roger-E-Olson/dp/031032467X
David Rollings
I know that for many years Roger Olson has opposed Reformed Theology I have read some of his work but not the one you refer to. I have always been unconvinced by his arguments. My theological education was both Reformed (London School of Theology) and then Arminian ( Nazarene Theological College, Manchester) So I have heard both sides in depth.
Alexandre Goncalves
Varnel Watson
Start a new thread on those 30 instances and we will be all happy to show you how they have nothing to do with #SALVATION
Varnel Watson
Not that many. Olson started about a decade ago on this journey clearly explaining What’s Wrong with Calvinism http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolson/2013/03/whats-wrong-with-calvinism/
Varnel Watson
Yes Alexandre Goncalves you got no arguments left (just funny pictures). Here’s the Biggest Problem with Calvin/Calvinism http://evangelicalarminians.org/roger-olson-my-biggest-problem-with-calvincalvinism/
Varnel Watson
OK Alexandre Goncalves nice pictures. So do you believe any human ever in history had a free will?
Alexandre Goncalves
The big question: do not want to convince you to believe in Calvinist soteriology. I want to convince you that you can be pentecostal and Calvinist. only that!
Varnel Watson
Avoiding the question?
Alexandre Goncalves
For salvation, to choose Christ there is no free will. After regeneration the man with his mind regenerated, can use their free will to the choices everyday.
Varnel Watson
One major problem with Calvinism and TULIP is that many LGBT believers claim God made them that way without their free choice Ricky
Ricky Grimsley
We all have proclivities,inclinations or desires that maybe we acquire or maybe or born with but regardless we have to lay those things at the cross and be born again. I dont feel God actually creates the average person anyway.
Alexandre Goncalves
This has nothing to do with Calvinism. This is theological liberalism. The Presbyterian churches in Brazil are against homosexual relations. Let’s separate theology of church practice. For if we do not let me speak that Pentecostals believe in dancing with snakes during worship. In the past, some churches of God did it …
Varnel Watson
Contrary to your claim, LGBT Calvinists claim that has everything to do with Calvinism 🙂 and therefore so many calvinist churches now openly ordain homosexual ministers
Alexandre Goncalves
That is your opinion. In my country there is not.
Phil Hoover
But let’s not demonize “Calvinists” in the same way that so many demonize “Pentecostals”
Varnel Watson
Truth is Calvinism Destroys God’s Justice https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/orthodoxyandheterodoxy/2014/01/10/why-i-stopped-being-a-calvinist-part-2-calvinism-destroys-gods-justice/
Grover Katzmarek Sr
Not only His justice but also mercy, love, grace
Vlad Stepanov
Because you’re pentecostal 😉
Ricky Grimsley
Calvinism is really harsh. However, i also would argue that there isnt that much difference between calvinism and arminianism. Calvinism would say that God thought and then decreed all things to be as they are. Arminianism would say that God knew the future and then created it anyway knowing everyone who would go to heaven or hell. Seems kinda the same to me. Most people disagree obviously.
Grover Katzmarek Sr
Then you don’t know arminianism
Ricky Grimsley
So you dont believe God perfectly knows the future?
Grover Katzmarek Sr
One believes not in free will and the other in free will.
If God is lacking in any area He is no longer God.
Ricky Grimsley
What bible verse is that. The real thing is this. If God already knew before the world was created that i would go to hell….how is there free-will?
David Rollings
It seems to me that there is a lot of ignorance about both Calvinism and Arminianism in the Church, there are radical Arminians like the open theists, classical Arminians and Wesleyan Arminians. In the Reformed tradition, there are hyper-Calvinists, evangelical reformed folk who practice infant baptism,Calvinistic Baptist and Reformed Charismatics like myself.
Ricky Grimsley
People just need to be honest about the implications of what they believe.
David Rollings
I wrote a series of articles on my blog setting forth the five points of Calvinism here is a link to the first one. From there you can go to the following items in the series.http://pneumaandlogos.com/2012/06/18/the-sinfulness-of-humankind/
Ricky Grimsley
So will anyone tell what the practical difference is. In both views the future is unchangeable and completely foreknown by God. Where is the justice if God knows your fate before you are born but does nothing to change it?
Grover Katzmarek Sr
Well Scripture tells us that Christ the Lamb of God was slain before the foundation of the world. So that being the case He knew long before Adam and Eve He knew that they would SIN yet He provided an answer to it.
Some of the greatest men of Biblical thought and reasoning have been men of arminanism
Ricky Grimsley
Notice the difference in “foundation” in lamb slain before the foundation (katabole) as opposed to themelios Romans 15:20 KJVS
[20] Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man’s foundation:
Katabole is root word we get catastrophe, catapult, cataclysm, and so on. Lamb slain from the “foundation of the world could have been translated lamb slain from the overthrow of the world.
Jon Ray
Charles Page REASON #3 Why reaching the lost if they were predestined to be lost? John Ruffle John Conger Ricky Grimsley
John Ruffle
Because YOU are pre-destined to preach to them! Having said that, I believe only Sandy Shaw was a “Puppet On a String” ?
Ricky Grimsley
The word “if” came up 1420 times in my word search on this bible app i have. Thats way to many times for calvinism to be true in my opinion.
Charles Page
Try with open godism.
Ricky Grimsley
Lol. Open-theism is the only way there can be an if.
Jon Ray
How do you confuse a Calvinist? — Take him to a buffet and tell him to get whatever he wants. According to Calvinists, your eternal destiny is predestined and not your choice. You are either going to heaven or hell and there is nothing you can do about it. The good news is that Calvinism is not true. Salvation is available to anyone who will believe. God has chosen you. The question is will you choose him. Why should you choose a Calvinist Realtor? Because they do not believe in a “Great Commission”. David Rollings
W Wayne Pugh
Can you send me anything you have that refutes Calvinism? My son is a history major and is in prison and needs all the info he can get to refute Calvanism. Thank you.
BishopPugh@gmail.com
Jon Ray
http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/why-am-i-not-a-calvinist/
Varnel Watson
Ryan Neil Rutan feel free to take it one point at the time
Varnel Watson
WHY AM I NOT A CALVINIST?
REASON #1 Free will is not humanistic. It’s the Bible.
REASON #2 Jesus gave us the Great Commission?
REASON #3 Why reaching the lost if they were predestined to be lost?
REASON #4 God so loved the world!
Varnel Watson
WHY SHOULD I BE? – can anyone tell me? Larry Dale Steele Steve Losee Gary Micheal Epping Neil Steven Lawrence Isara Mo
Grace Williams
Nobody should be.
Isara Mo
Troy Day
Brother Troy may I give you my take on this.
I don’t know what theology Calvin put foward just I as I don’t have an inkling of what Martin Luther taught.
So I don’t know what Calvinism. Is neither do I know what Lutheranism is.
The one who who brought me from the wilderness taught me ftom the Bible over and over and once..
That’s why I always repeat here that I don’t have nor belong to any denomination and yet JESUS is still my Saviour and my LORD.
It is out of pride I say this but it is the truth.
Whatever I know of the WORD comes from the WORD… .
Steve Losee
Don’t ask me; I’m an Arcalmivinianist.
Varnel Watson
Steve Losee you are A strange animal 🙂
Steve Losee
Troy Day never said I wasn’t. 🙂
Darrell Hendricks
Troy Day People Only have free will in the context of the Absolute Sovereignty of God.
Joe A Smith
Troy Day because Jesus taught Monergism, men teach Synergism
Darrell Hendricks
Psalm 115; 3 “God is in Heaven….He does Whatever He pleases”
Mong Santiago
You don’t have to be. The same way a Calvinist doesn’t have to reject Calvinism
Varnel Watson
Thanks Mong Santiago but they were probably ordained to be so tho I dont know many 5-pont calvinists who believe that anyway 🙂
Mong Santiago
It still boils down to whether causal determinism is true or not. If it’s true, then that’s correct, Calvinists are causally determined to believe in Calvinism. If not, then they believe in Calvinism out of their own will ?
Varnel Watson
Mong Santiago I am specifically shocked on the issue of missions and evangelism – no point IF all ppl are already predestined
Mong Santiago
An honest Calvinist would admit that they do not know who the “elects” are, so they evangelize thinking that the one whom they’re evangelizing to might be an elect. They don’t usually talk about the doctrine of election though when evangelizing. By the way, do you know that you don’t have to be a Calvinist to believe in predestination? That you can affirm that man has free will but at the same time God predetermines all events? Predestination is inevitable if you believe that God is certain in regards to what will happen in the future
Varnel Watson
Mong Santiago and an honest Armnian like me would admit that there are times where God dont give us NO choice 🙂
Jo Kothenbeutel
Calvinism twists some Bible verses to come up with their beliefs.
Automatic false doctrine.
Manfred Boensch
Jo Kothenbeutel Like what?
Adam Daniel Broughton
Troy Day Calvinists evangelize because God has also predetermined the means by which people come to faith, the foolishness of preaching.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams you may remember that on this issue RichardAnna Boyce holds some new doctrine of free grace that beyond heretical NOW has grown to be just another case of hyper calvinism where ppl do not get ever sanctified AND can freely sin away without falling off grace for the life of it
Wilson Noel Perez Jr.
Pentecostals don’t believe in Genesis 1….
Marco Antonio Moreno Gutierrez
Wilson Noel Perez Jr. no way ?
Wilson Noel Perez Jr.
Yeah. They no longer believe in a 6-day creation and have appealed to evolution instead of the Bible’s account of Genesis chapter 1. They do not hold to Genesis chapter 1.
Wilson Noel Perez Jr.
Marco Antonio Moreno Gutierrez They made that public and official years ago.
Marco Antonio Moreno Gutierrez
Wilson Noel Perez Jr. that’s so crazy
Wilson Noel Perez Jr.
Marco Antonio Moreno Gutierrez That’s sinful.
Marco Antonio Moreno Gutierrez
Wilson Noel Perez Jr. not just sinful but blasphemous
Wilson Noel Perez Jr.
Amen
Daniel Sidderley
Good man… Calvinism is a demonic system full of lies from Satan.
Rebecca Guzel
I agree! ??
Katleho Mokhalinyane
The name Pentecostal says it all.
Varnel Watson
says a lot about you indeed
Katleho Mokhalinyane
Troy Day yes it does my friend.
Varnel Watson
Katleho Mokhalinyane good to know Thank you
Katleho Mokhalinyane
Troy Day Amen brother
RichardAnna Boyce
Troy Day, How do you know when you’ve really believed? How do you know when you are fully sanctified by stopping your purposeful unbiblical misreading of my beliefs? Since your idea of “genuine faith” must be proved by works and obedience, how do you know your faith qualifies as the real thing, since you can always do and obey more? What is it that really saves you anyway, your faith, or Jesus who is the object of your faith? How can your faith be validated by subjective introspection when your feelings and experiences fluctuate? And if the object of your faith, the Lord Jesus Christ, saves you, shouldn’t you validate your faith only by whether it rests in Him?
Varnel Watson
proves again you are A calvinist
RichardAnna Boyce
Troy Day this is for the benefit of others reading our discussion so Holy Spirit can teach them the truth brother
Varnel Watson
RichardAnna Boyce you are a TRUE calvinist – be proud Free grace is NO grace at all IF Jesus didnt pay the price
Michael Lavender
Cause you’re lost
Varnel Watson
so God predestined ppl to hell – youre so funny
Michael Lavender
Troy Day duh
Varnel Watson
Michael Lavender I know its hard to respond to that one IT is OK not to be able to respond to it as the BIBLE does not either 🙂 Just not there – humanistic teaching at best
Renante Salvador Guillardo
Free will means you are free to chose what you want. But the problem is your nature is dead(eph.2:1) and unrighteous(rom.3:12-14). Your free will is corrupted by sin that is why you do not chose God unless God chose you.
Trevor Hatfield
If I am an Arminian and believe God gives us a choice, then that’s my choice; if Calvinism is correct then God made me believe I have a choice when I don’t really have a choice. Either way, I make a choice or at least think I do. Change my mind.
Varnel Watson
cant have it both ways – both ways is NO way
Trevor Hatfield
Troy Day then I don’t understand Calvinism.
Ian Hartley
John 6. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 37 -40. Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Varnel Watson
WRONG exegesis – Jesus did not say ANY of that Calvinism predestination in Jn 6 – pls read again
Ian Hartley
If there is a clear understanding of what Jesus said you cannot get closed than Scripture. According to the Book of John that is what Jesus said! If you want to interpret any other way that’s your opinion.
Varnel Watson
Ian Hartley We can look at what JESUS actually said and agree on it being the BIBLE But my point is that what you offer as exegesis of Jn 6 is NOT what Jesus said at all Lets read Jn 6 exegete it together and you will see it for yourself
Varnel Watson
CALVINISM makes NO sense and is NOT Biblical
Why would JESUS send us to preach the GOSPEL to the end of the world if He already KNEW whos getting saved and who is predestined to hell for eternity? Did JESUS NOT know?
Varnel Watson
I was JUST predestined NOT to be one Philip Williams Just like RichardAnna Boyce is predestined and eternally secured by free grace
Michael Lavender
People are not calvinists because they spell God s e l f
RichardAnna Boyce
Arminians warn we can lose salvation, and Hebrew warnings are written to believers. Puritans warn we were never saved in the first place.
Calvin/Reformists believe in a perseverance of fruit bearing as well as perseverance of faith.
Neonomians, MacArthur, Piper believe salvation is faith plus obedient fruitful works.
Calvinist Experimental Predestinarian believe heaven is an inheritance not a gift,
so unbelieving professors of faith can lose their inheritance; but EP never know if they are one of the elect until they meet God (when it’s too late).
Arminian is slightly closer to Scripture than Calvinism,
but FREE GRACE model is closest.
Free Grace agree to Calvinists eternal security of the Christian,
and also Arminian warnings in New Testament apply to Christians.
F G Partners will reign in eternity with Christ, but are in danger of severe discipline by losing reward of reigning with Christ, while still having secure salvation.
Varnel Watson
tell us why and how Calvinism
Is
Dangerous Harry Jones
Anonymous
well its pretty much clear from this Kyle Williams Duane L Burgess John Mushenhouse
Anonymous
Dr. J D Watson was a firm Arminian pastor for twenty years. Then he studied Romans and corrected his theology. He wrote, “Salvation is of the Lord.”
Many cling to Arminian heresies for years. The flesh hates God’s sovereignty.
To not be a Calvinist is to be biblically illiterate, lacking understanding of the doctrines of God, man, sin and salvation.
Criticism of “Calvinism” (divine sovereign grace, DSG) has no understanding of biblical exegesis. It’s all proof texting, citing verses out of context and failing to harmonize all Scripture.
It is a severe failure of II Tim. 2:15.
Criticism of DSG is to align with the arrogant, prideful rebellion of Genesis 3, demanding autonomy (control of our destiny).
DSG is foundational to the Gospel and the Christian life.
Anonymous
Scripture exhorts us to preach the Gospel to “every creature.”
God commands all people everywhere to repent.
The Gospel is the means God has chosen to use to bring His sheep unto Himself. We proclaim the Gospel to all and as many as are ordained to eternal life will believe.
Anonymous
Jesus told Nicodemus that God is sovereign in salvation. We have no part in our physical or spiritual birth. We must be born from again (John 3:1-21).
Nicodemus should have known this (John 3:10). He should have known Ezekiel 36. It’s where we find God’s “I will” statements and the meaning of being born “of the water and the spirit.”
I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you
Anonymous
Without Calvinism – divine sovereign grace (DSG) – there is no salvation.
All have sinned, there is none righteous, no one seeks after God. The natural man does not receive the things of the spirit.
Rather than condemn all, God dealt with sin and determined to redeem some. The rest He passed by and allows them their just judgment and condemnation.
God is working His eternal plan and as many as are ordained to eternal life will believe.
Calvinism – DSG – is humbling and God exalting, foundational to the Gospel and the Christian life.
Anonymous
Duane L Burgess I am pretty sure Link Hudson Robert Cox Philip Williams there is salvation Without Calvinism – how else did ppl get saved before calvinism?
Anonymous
REASON #1 Free will is not humanistic. It’s the Bible.
REASON #2 Jesus gave us the Great Commission?
REASON #3 Why reaching the lost if they were predestined to be lost?
REASON #4 God so loved the world!
REASON #5 People backslide by their own choices and free will
REASON #6 Grace is Resistible and many have fallen from grace
REASON #7 I am yet to meet a Christian saved NOT by his/her own personal free will choice!
REASON #8 God’s choice not to act graciously toward others
Anonymous
Troy Day Reason #1
Q #1 Is God Sovereign?
Anonymous
Alan Smith God who is Sovereign ALLOWS free will and still remains Sovereign – if He does NOT allow it GOD will be despotic instead of Sovereign ; Duane L Burgess Link Hudson Got to tell ya Kyle Williams I love the Presbyterian reformed forum arguments 🙂 used to eat them for breakfast daily like chirios w/hog bacon
Anonymous
Troy Day you’ve never met a Christian that was saved by grace alone?
Anonymous
Kyle Williams I’ve never met a Christian that was NOT saved by their own free will Have you? Alan Smith Neil Steven Lawrence Philip Williams Duane L Burgess
Anonymous
Troy Day we all need grace. Some never hear of the gospel. But if we do, we should not resist the Holy Spirit. We should turn from our sins and follow Jesus. That part is up to us. But if we ask(!), he will give us his Holy Spirit. Then we can become children of God.
Anonymous
Kyle Williams you may be right that Philip Williams is the ONLY one who was not saved by his own will but by grace abundant from Noah’s boat
Anonymous
Troy Day Don’t be lost. The boat is coming to rescue you. Get in the boat!
Save the perishing!
Anonymous
Philip Williams how did you NOT operate on your free will? Like did you turn it off on your own like Kyle Williams or did GOD turned off for you?
Anonymous
Troy Day i was sinking. The Lord rescued me. I was glad to get in the boat. I am saved so long as I remain in the boat!
Anonymous
Philip Williams if you were sinking you were going DOWN
if GOD saved you – He pulled you up like Jonah and Noah
SAME as in the Rapture HE pulls us UP and AWAY … Neil Steven Lawrence Michael Chauncey that’s a GOOD preaching right there
Anonymous
Troy Day when you die, you hope he does! Brother, are you ready to meet the Lord!
Anonymous
Philip Williams rapture.ready ART THOU?
Anonymous
Kyle Williams 1 Samuel 15:29
Also the Glory of Israel will not lie or change His mind; for He is not a man that He should change His mind.”
Anonymous
Troy Day I didn’t get in the boat. I wasn’t drowning, I had drowned. I was dead. And Christ breathed new life into me after He pulled me in the boat. It was a rescue but also a resurrection.
Anonymous
Why do we think, we have anything to do with grace?
John 1:16-17
Out of His fullness, we have all received grace on top of grace. Torah was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Yeshua the Messiah.
Anonymous
I’m having a difficult time with this..
Romans 9:18-21
So then He has mercy on whom He wills, and He hardens whom He wills. You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” But who in the world are you, O man, who talks back to God? Will what is formed say to the one who formed it, “Why did you make me like this?” Does the potter have no right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honor and another for common use?
Anonymous
Especially this part…
~One vessel for honor and one vessel for command use
Anonymous
Alan Smith is this NLT? what version is this now?
Anonymous
TLV
Messianic Jewish Bible
Anonymous
Alan Smith is this a REAL thing with commentaries?
Anonymous
Troy Day it is a real version Tree of Life version. No commentaries. Just the Word of God.
Anonymous
REASON #2 Jesus gave us the Great Commission? Kyle Williams Duane L Burgess pls elaborate if you can WHAT would be the point IF predestined ? Alan Smith
Anonymous
Troy Day Predestination does not negate the need for evangelism. The Gospel is the Power of God unto salvation. The Gospel is the means by which God gathers all of those who are His. And the Gospel will not fail to bring all that the Father has entrusted to Christ, to Trust in Christ.
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence still waiting for Kyle Williams Duane L Burgess show ONE person SAVED NOT by their free will like Link Hudson Philip Williams
Anonymous
Troy Day only robots, have no free will. Even animals have more free will than Calvinists! 🐈🐕🦺🐇🐀🦔
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence 1 Samuel 15:29
Also the Glory of Israel will not lie or change His mind; for He is not a man that He should change His mind.”
Anonymous
we dont have the great commission. That was to the disciples who actually heard from jesus.
Anonymous
Duane L Burgess Kyle Williams I STRONGLY disagree with John Digsby on this one John Mushenhouse WHO elseS got the great commission? Certainly NOT Philip Williams and his pope WHY else are Neil Steven Lawrence Link Hudson in missions OR at least they were at one time back in the day as they state
Anonymous
all they had to do was preach the gospel, they arent teaching the book of revelations. They arent teaching calvinism, or catholicism.
They had a simple mission.
And they heard it from jesus<<<< which is the important phrase here if churches had only the gospel, no OT, no book of revelations, pretty much just pauls epistles, gospels, few other books i guess... the message is not complicated theres no trinity to conceptualize.
Anonymous
Troy Day I did not make that claim. I started teaching the Bible in a public setting including churches after moving overseas. But someone gave me a ‘word’ about being a missionary.
Anonymous
Link Hudson what claim did you make – are you OSAS now?
Anonymous
John Digsby 1 Samuel 15:29
Also the Glory of Israel will not lie or change His mind; for He is not a man that He should change His mind.”
Anonymous
Troy Day Talking about the topic of being a missionary.
Anonymous
Troy Day i dont see the relevance?
Anonymous
Duane L Burgess you said COMPLETELY! but did not explain – pls explain with 2-3 points from the post what is your theological presupposition on this OP? //thanks
Anonymous
Troy Day Criticism of “Calvinism” reveals that one has no understanding of the doctrines of God, man, sin and salvation.
We were created as self directed individuals, freely making our choices. But the nature of that reality craves autonomy. Adam and Eve could not resist the temptation to exalt self. God’s curse on Creation means our human nature is fallen, corrupted and sinful from conception. Our will is enslaved to sin, not free. “Free will” is both inaccurate and in adequate to express what Scripture teaches.
“Free will” is the cry of arrogant, prideful rebellion from Genesis 3, demanding autonomy: control of our destiny.
Anonymous
God commands that the Gospel be proclaimed to “every creature.” That is the means whereby God draws His sheep unto Himself.
On our own Scripture is crystal clear:
All have sinned, there is none righteous, no one seeks after God.
As Jesus told Nicodemus, we have no part in our physical birth or our spiritual birth. God is sovereign in salvation. We must be “born from above.”
Just as Saul heard the Gospel and persecuted the saints, we too need God’s sovereign intervention in our lives.
On our own we are the natural man who does not receive the things of the spirit. We are dead in trespasses and sin. We have no desire or ability to choose to be reconciled to God.
Anonymous
No one is predestined to be lost.
All have sinned, the wages of sin is death.
God created everything in sinless perfection. Our sin is on us.
“Predestine” is a term seriously misused by many. Those whom God chose in eternity past to redeem, those He predestined to eternal life, the basis of assurance of salvation, eternal security.
The lost go to hell because that is the just punishment for sin. There were NOT predestined to hell.
https://read.lsbible.org/?q=predestin
Anonymous
John 3:16 is one of the most misunderstood verses in Scripture. Context reveals it’s not about the “whosoever.” It’s about God and what He has done about sin so He may justly give everlasting life.
John 3:1-21 says NOTHING about who CAN believe or how many can believe.
What it DOES say is that we have no part in our physical or spiritual birth. We must be “born from above.” John 3:1-21 is instruction about God being sovereign in salvation. And John 3:10 is a reference to God’s “I will” statements in Ezekiel 36.
Anonymous
True saints can disobey, can grieve and quench the spirit. But God brings correction, not condemnation.
Romans 7 is us: the wretched man.
Romans 8 is us in Christ: eternally secure.
A butterfly cannot become again a caterpillar.
If anyone could lose salvation they would, every one.
The essence of the doctrine of salvation is that God is sovereign. All whom He has chosen will come to Him and none will be lost.
Anonymous
“Irresistible grace” refers to God’s sovereign work in the life of His sheep, making them desire Him for salvation.
Bottom line, every time: God is sovereign in salvation, not man.
No one can resist God’s eternal plan to redeem them. God does NOT need our permission to save us.
People resist God every day. But God’s sheep can not resist His effectual call unto salvation. When God works in us to desire Him, it is infinite: irresistible.
With God’s irresistible grace in salvation NO ONE would be saved.
Anonymous
“I am yet to meet a Christian saved NOT by his/her own personal free will choice!”
This is an arrogant, damnable, blasphemous lie.
All have sinned, there is none righteous, no one seeks after God. We MUST be “born from above.”
Anonymous
“God’s choice not to act graciously toward others”
Again, arrogant, damnable, blasphemy. This is judging God, straight out of Gen. 3. PRIDE
ALL have sinned and are worthy of condemnation.
God owes grace to NO ONE.
Rather than condemn all, God chose to deal with sin and to save some, not all.
The incomprehensible mystery is why the holy righteous God would save anyone at all.
Anonymous
Duane L Burgess YES-pls.show at least ONE saved against their FREE will AND Philip Williams Link Hudson Alan Smith may agree with the rest of your OSAS points You calling others in lie @3am ‘proves you can fall off from grace
Anonymous
Duane L Burgess We can’t will ourselves saved. We have to believe in Christ.
Anonymous
Link Hudson can you will to believe or not – are you OSAS now?
Anonymous
Troy Day Do you believe that men get saved just because the choose to or because they believe in Jesus?
Anonymous
Link Hudson not sure how to answer a question that was given as answer to my question that was never answered. are you OSAS now? – this would explain a lot that has been going on in your comments lately
Anonymous
Troy Day I don’t embrace the OSAS perspective. Do you believe in once sanctified always saved?
Anonymous
Link Hudson good2no – not sure what once sanctified always saved means to state if I believe it or not. Sounds like some new NAR teaching like non-practicing homosexuals. Perhaps you can explain this better
Anonymous
Troy Day its the idea that once you get sanctified you are alwsys sanctified and can never lose your salvation.
I never heard of NAR using tge term non-practicing homosexual. For mist Americans under 50 or 60, probably, and for academics who study related issues ‘homosexual’, ‘gay’, and ‘lesbian’ refers to people who are same-sex attracted. But I don’t think a Christian who is struggling with that kind of lust who isn’t acting on it should label himself that way and should seek victory over that type of attraction.
Anonymous
Link Hudson I am NOT aware of ANY Pentecostal teaching that you can never lose your salvation; your statement on sanctification is largely informed from pop culture and not from Wesleyan theology; AS it seems to be your take on non-practicing homosexuals if any https://tfoministries.org/non-practicing-homosexual ALSO on this account our fellow Methodist brother James Philemon Bowers may affirm that in Full Book of Discipline statements The practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching. https://www.umc.org/en/content/homosexuality-full-book-of-discipline-statements
Anonymous
Link Hudson people get saved because they are drawn by God, conviction by God.
Anonymous
Alan Smith well Link Hudson has not done much ministry among actual Pentecostals if any – in more charismatic circles (do not wish to name churches here) non-practicing gays are very much present and active THEN heS gonna have to deal with a person who affirms to be gay AFTER GOD has drawn convicted and saved him/her in BIBLICAL sense
Anonymous
Link Hudson is sanctification instantaneous or over time?
Does one stay sanctified or can you lose your sanctification? ?
Anonymous
https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/back-to-the-basics-of-the-role-of-the-holy-spirit-in-entire-sanctification-in-the-writings-of-john-wesley/
Anonymous
SO Link Hudson NOW you dont think ppl should seek victory over same-sex attractions ???-???? What exactly are you saying here as per the BIBLE ???
Anonymous
Troy Day opposite of what I said. Please read more carefully.
Anonymous
Link Hudson perhaps you need to rephrase or clarify a bit more?
Anonymous
RT Skip Pauley
Philip Williams ..you know not what you speak…PRAYERS…
Anonymous
Troy Day yes, time for you to get on your knees and beg for mercy.
Anonymous
Philip Williams like Skip Pauley said – thou are lost in sea without Noah
Anonymous
Troy Day God keeps me boat above the waves!
Anonymous
Philip Williams as he will keep the church in the rapture #noughSaid
Anonymous
Troy Day the waves of the rapture teaching surround me. But I will cling to the Rock. I will not go down into their pit.
Anonymous
Philip Williams you and your pope will have the same fortune soon enough
Anonymous
Troy Day the Pope done embraced your Jewish teaching. That means he can’t be the antiChrist. He thanks ye!
Anonymous
https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/back-to-the-basics-of-the-role-of-the-holy-spirit-in-entire-sanctification-in-the-writings-of-john-wesley/
Anonymous
Michael Chauncey Terry Wiles Anthony Tonka Green Duane L Burgess Neil Steven Lawrence NOW I am pretty solid on all of these especially #8 https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/why-am-i-not-a-calvinist-reason-8/
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence Terry Wiles if I may quote here Duane L Burgess
While Scripture doesn’t explicitly say so, what is recorded indicates Nicodemus was redeemed. for Anthony Tonka Green Dan Anthony and @everyone
Anonymous
Amen-
Media: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=7028747467153172&set=p.7028747467153172&type=3
Anonymous
Mark Wilson yes Sir yes Sir especially #8 https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/why-am-i-not-a-calvinist-reason-8/
Anonymous
Terry Wiles Duane L Burgess Neil Steven Lawrence NOW I am pretty solid on all of these especially #8 https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/why-am-i-not-a-calvinist-reason-8/