WHY AM I NOT A CALVINIST?

Posted by Библията Тв in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

WHY AM I NOT A CALVINIST?

REASON #1 Free will is not humanistic. It’s the Bible.

REASON #2 Jesus gave us the Great Commission?

REASON #3 Why reaching the lost if they were predestined to be lost?

REASON #4 God so loved the world!

REASON #5 People backslide by their own choices and free will

REASON #6 Grace is Resistible and many have fallen from grace

REASON #7 I am yet to meet a Christian saved NOT by his/her own personal free will choice!

REASON #8 God’s choice not to act graciously toward others

ALSO: Calvinism Critiqued by a Former Calvinist

John Kissinger [08/04/2015 12:20 PM]
Hey Pentecostal Theology would you put all 8 posts in one with their links so more people be saved by grace alone?

John Kissinger [08/04/2015 12:20 PM]
Charles Page here’s even more reasons: Calvinism Destroys God’s Justice https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/orthodoxyandheterodoxy/2014/01/10/why-i-stopped-being-a-calvinist-part-2-calvinism-destroys-gods-justice/

John Kissinger [08/04/2015 12:56 PM]
Thank you Jonathan Downie for liking this post. Many are not Calvinists b/c some LGBT believers claim God made them that way Charles Page

Pentecostal Theology [08/04/2015 3:12 PM]
Here we go: T-shirts are also free(wil)ly available http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/why-am-i-not-a-calvinist-ourcog-reason-1-free/

Charles Page [08/04/2015 3:16 PM]
send me a free tee and I will proudly wear it!!!

120 Comments

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    Ricky Grimsley William DeArteaga David Rollings Grover Katzmarek Sr Comments on Calvin from Dake’s discussions continue here. If you are not align with anyone of the above 8 reasons you are not really a Calvinist Alexandre Goncalves

    My question had to do mainly with Calvin’s recessional pneumatology and postmil eschatology. Very few discussions argue against Calvin’s soteriology because it is not his but largely Augustinian and Eastern Orthodox. There’s no need to even mention Piper on Calvin since most have read or could read Calvin’s Institutes for themselves on which Piper is no authority. With this said, John Piper is a partial cessationist and not a complete Calvinist either. His explanations and merger between both theological systems is marginal and nonobjective. Roger Olson rejects this amalgamation of theological systems and presents a clear Pentecostal view which many agree with. Since this is not a discussion on Calvin, but Dake, my comments will be under the Calvin discussion above.

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Alexandre Goncalves

    I repeat: I am Calvinist in soteriology. Being Calvinist does not mean accepting everything that Calvin wrote. I accept what is clear in the Bible. And for me, unconditional election, the total depravity and redemption of the elect are bright spots in the holy scriptures.

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    Calvinism frustrates me and yet fascinates me. I love to listen to James White destroy people in debates. However, i have same problems with calvinists as i do with arminians. I am fond of a quote from james white “the only consistent arminian is an open-theist. “

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    Alexandre Do you agree with ANY of these? You are NOT really a Calvinist – WHY AM I NOT A CALVINIST?

    REASON #1 Free will is not humanistic. It’s the Bible.

    REASON #2 Jesus gave us the Great Commission?

    REASON #3 Why reaching the lost if they were predestined to be lost?

    REASON #4 God so loved the world!

    REASON #5 People backslide by their own choices and free will

    REASON #6 Grace is Resistible and many have fallen from grace

    REASON #7 I am yet to meet a Christian saved NOT by his/her own personal free will choice!

    REASON #8 God’s choice not to act graciously toward others http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/why-am-i-not-a-calvinist/

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Alexandre Goncalves

    I Believe:

    T Total depravity.
    U Unconditional election.
    L Limited atonement.
    I Irresistible grace.
    P Perseverance of the

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Alexandre Goncalves

    Saints

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    Oh, brother Alexandre How can you be Pentecostal without FREE WILL 🙂

    • Reply March 29, 2016

      Alexandre Goncalves

      Amém! Depraved as I am, as I am corrupt because of Adam’s sin, I could never choose something so good and noble as the Lord Jesus. He had to choose me (John 15:16) because I never choose. He is good!

    • Reply March 29, 2016

      Varnel Watson

      He is good because He chose to give you a personal choice via free will – like he did with Adam and Eve Ricky Grimsley

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    David Rollings

    The so called 8 reasons don’t really deal with true Calvinistic theology, after all the father of Modern Missions William Carey was a Calvinist. CH Spurgeon the great nineteenth century preacher and evangelist was a Calvinist. Surely that undermines any claim that Calvinist do not believe the great commission they do..I believe that Calvinistic theology is compatible with a belief in the empowering of the Holy Spirit.

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    Steve Jones from Auburn is a former Calvinist who pretenses a solid Calvinism Critiqued and the TULIP confession as heretical. Also, Calvin never wrote TULIP 🙂 It was a creation of his followers http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/openhse/calvinism.html

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Grover Katzmarek Sr

    It is not only his theology that bothers me but his influence that caused a man to be burned at the stake.

    I also enjoyed the article of a Wednesday Crucifixion. The only sign Christ gave to the Jews and people try to explain away to come up with a Friday death.

    Glad you posted that

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    Its insane to believe that A loving God chose to create a system where he would some how receive glory from beings who do only what he created them to do.

    • Reply March 29, 2016

      Varnel Watson

      Ultra Calvinists use the term “theological schizophrenia,” though it’s best not to use such definitions

    • Reply March 29, 2016

      Grover Katzmarek Sr

      If that was true He didn’t need to create us for He has that with the angels.

      I’m thankful I don’t believe in
      Limited Atonement
      Irresistible Grace
      Especially when the Word of God says He not willing any should perish.

    • Reply March 29, 2016

      Varnel Watson

      Exactly. TULIP is a complete theological failure blamed on Calvin who really had nothing to do it…

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    David Rollings Please elaborate. Calvinism denies the work of the Holy Spirit in this present times? How can you then have Pentecost without the Holy Spirit? Isn’t that at least heretical?

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Alexandre Goncalves

    Your above reasons are fallacies because history shows that the Puritans were Calvinists who most spread the gospel throughout the world.

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    David Rollings

    I am aware of the history of the development of the tulip idea at the Synod of Dordt. I have written on my blog about Reformed Theology and here is a link to one of my posts http://pneumaandlogos.com/2014/01/21/is-reformed-theology-a-grand-vision-or-just-a-tulip/

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    Irresistible grace is easily disproved. Obviously God is sovereign and could have created a world where no one can resist but they do. Maybe you can argue that predestination might apply to some like Paul but not to the average guy.

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    David and Alexandre There’s been a long going division in the Calvinist’s camp on accepting or rejecting TULIP. We will have to leave you to sort TULIP out before we continue to discuss if it even applies to Pentecostal Theology.

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Alexandre Goncalves

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    David Rollings

    The problem with TULIP is that it shackles Calvinists to certain terminology Calvin and most of his followers prefer to speak of effectual calling rather than irresistible grace.

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    Alexandre Please no more Piper – the guy is complete fallacy. Have you read any Roger Olson? http://www.academia.edu/1181701/To_Kill_a_Tulip_A_Review_of_Roger_Olsons_Against_Calvinism

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Alexandre Goncalves

    Pentecostals authors are very bad in soteriology. They are also bad in eschatology. I prefer Reformed writers.

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    Spoken like a true Calvinist who cannot amalgamate with Pentecostalism. Roger Olson has no bad in soteriology 🙂 Olson’s critique on Calvinism is solid – here’s the actual book http://www.amazon.com/Against-Calvinism-Roger-E-Olson/dp/031032467X

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    David Rollings

    I know that for many years Roger Olson has opposed Reformed Theology I have read some of his work but not the one you refer to. I have always been unconvinced by his arguments. My theological education was both Reformed (London School of Theology) and then Arminian ( Nazarene Theological College, Manchester) So I have heard both sides in depth.

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Alexandre Goncalves

    • Reply March 29, 2016

      Varnel Watson

      Start a new thread on those 30 instances and we will be all happy to show you how they have nothing to do with #SALVATION

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    Not that many. Olson started about a decade ago on this journey clearly explaining What’s Wrong with Calvinism http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolson/2013/03/whats-wrong-with-calvinism/

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    Yes Alexandre Goncalves you got no arguments left (just funny pictures). Here’s the Biggest Problem with Calvin/Calvinism http://evangelicalarminians.org/roger-olson-my-biggest-problem-with-calvincalvinism/

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    OK Alexandre Goncalves nice pictures. So do you believe any human ever in history had a free will?

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Alexandre Goncalves

    The big question: do not want to convince you to believe in Calvinist soteriology. I want to convince you that you can be pentecostal and Calvinist. only that!

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    Avoiding the question?

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Alexandre Goncalves

    For salvation, to choose Christ there is no free will. After regeneration the man with his mind regenerated, can use their free will to the choices everyday.

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    One major problem with Calvinism and TULIP is that many LGBT believers claim God made them that way without their free choice Ricky

    • Reply March 29, 2016

      Ricky Grimsley

      We all have proclivities,inclinations or desires that maybe we acquire or maybe or born with but regardless we have to lay those things at the cross and be born again. I dont feel God actually creates the average person anyway.

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Alexandre Goncalves

    This has nothing to do with Calvinism. This is theological liberalism. The Presbyterian churches in Brazil are against homosexual relations. Let’s separate theology of church practice. For if we do not let me speak that Pentecostals believe in dancing with snakes during worship. In the past, some churches of God did it …

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    Contrary to your claim, LGBT Calvinists claim that has everything to do with Calvinism 🙂 and therefore so many calvinist churches now openly ordain homosexual ministers

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Alexandre Goncalves

    That is your opinion. In my country there is not.

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Phil Hoover

    But let’s not demonize “Calvinists” in the same way that so many demonize “Pentecostals”

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Varnel Watson

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Grover Katzmarek Sr

    Not only His justice but also mercy, love, grace

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Vlad Stepanov

    Because you’re pentecostal 😉

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    Calvinism is really harsh. However, i also would argue that there isnt that much difference between calvinism and arminianism. Calvinism would say that God thought and then decreed all things to be as they are. Arminianism would say that God knew the future and then created it anyway knowing everyone who would go to heaven or hell. Seems kinda the same to me. Most people disagree obviously.

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Grover Katzmarek Sr

    Then you don’t know arminianism

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    So you dont believe God perfectly knows the future?

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Grover Katzmarek Sr

    One believes not in free will and the other in free will.

    If God is lacking in any area He is no longer God.

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    What bible verse is that. The real thing is this. If God already knew before the world was created that i would go to hell….how is there free-will?

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    David Rollings

    It seems to me that there is a lot of ignorance about both Calvinism and Arminianism in the Church, there are radical Arminians like the open theists, classical Arminians and Wesleyan Arminians. In the Reformed tradition, there are hyper-Calvinists, evangelical reformed folk who practice infant baptism,Calvinistic Baptist and Reformed Charismatics like myself.

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    People just need to be honest about the implications of what they believe.

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    David Rollings

    I wrote a series of articles on my blog setting forth the five points of Calvinism here is a link to the first one. From there you can go to the following items in the series.http://pneumaandlogos.com/2012/06/18/the-sinfulness-of-humankind/

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    So will anyone tell what the practical difference is. In both views the future is unchangeable and completely foreknown by God. Where is the justice if God knows your fate before you are born but does nothing to change it?

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Grover Katzmarek Sr

    Well Scripture tells us that Christ the Lamb of God was slain before the foundation of the world. So that being the case He knew long before Adam and Eve He knew that they would SIN yet He provided an answer to it.

    Some of the greatest men of Biblical thought and reasoning have been men of arminanism

  • Reply March 29, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    Notice the difference in “foundation” in lamb slain before the foundation (katabole) as opposed to themelios Romans 15:20 KJVS
    [20] Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man’s foundation:
    Katabole is root word we get catastrophe, catapult, cataclysm, and so on. Lamb slain from the “foundation of the world could have been translated lamb slain from the overthrow of the world.

  • Reply August 4, 2016

    Jon Ray

    Charles Page REASON #3 Why reaching the lost if they were predestined to be lost? John Ruffle John Conger Ricky Grimsley

    • Reply August 5, 2016

      John Ruffle

      Because YOU are pre-destined to preach to them! Having said that, I believe only Sandy Shaw was a “Puppet On a String” ?

  • Reply August 4, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    The word “if” came up 1420 times in my word search on this bible app i have. Thats way to many times for calvinism to be true in my opinion.

  • Reply August 4, 2016

    Jon Ray

    How do you confuse a Calvinist? — Take him to a buffet and tell him to get whatever he wants. According to Calvinists, your eternal destiny is predestined and not your choice. You are either going to heaven or hell and there is nothing you can do about it. The good news is that Calvinism is not true. Salvation is available to anyone who will believe. God has chosen you. The question is will you choose him. Why should you choose a Calvinist Realtor? Because they do not believe in a “Great Commission”. David Rollings

  • Reply August 11, 2016

    W Wayne Pugh

    Can you send me anything you have that refutes Calvinism? My son is a history major and is in prison and needs all the info he can get to refute Calvanism. Thank you.
    BishopPugh@gmail.com

  • Reply August 11, 2016

    Jon Ray

  • Reply October 25, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    Ryan Neil Rutan feel free to take it one point at the time

  • Reply March 15, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    WHY AM I NOT A CALVINIST?

    REASON #1 Free will is not humanistic. It’s the Bible.

    REASON #2 Jesus gave us the Great Commission?

    REASON #3 Why reaching the lost if they were predestined to be lost?

    REASON #4 God so loved the world!

  • Reply June 6, 2020

    Varnel Watson

    WHY SHOULD I BE? – can anyone tell me? Larry Dale Steele Steve Losee Gary Micheal Epping Neil Steven Lawrence Isara Mo

    • Reply June 6, 2020

      Grace Williams

      Nobody should be.

    • Reply June 6, 2020

      Isara Mo

      Troy Day
      Brother Troy may I give you my take on this.
      I don’t know what theology Calvin put foward just I as I don’t have an inkling of what Martin Luther taught.
      So I don’t know what Calvinism. Is neither do I know what Lutheranism is.
      The one who who brought me from the wilderness taught me ftom the Bible over and over and once..
      That’s why I always repeat here that I don’t have nor belong to any denomination and yet JESUS is still my Saviour and my LORD.
      It is out of pride I say this but it is the truth.
      Whatever I know of the WORD comes from the WORD… .

    • Reply June 6, 2020

      Steve Losee

      Don’t ask me; I’m an Arcalmivinianist.

    • Reply June 6, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      Steve Losee you are A strange animal 🙂

    • Reply June 6, 2020

      Steve Losee

      Troy Day never said I wasn’t. 🙂

    • Reply June 6, 2020

      Darrell Hendricks

      Troy Day People Only have free will in the context of the Absolute Sovereignty of God.

    • Reply June 6, 2020

      Joe A Smith

      Troy Day because Jesus taught Monergism, men teach Synergism

    • Reply June 7, 2020

      Darrell Hendricks

      Psalm 115; 3 “God is in Heaven….He does Whatever He pleases”

  • Reply June 6, 2020

    Mong Santiago

    You don’t have to be. The same way a Calvinist doesn’t have to reject Calvinism

    • Reply June 6, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      Thanks Mong Santiago but they were probably ordained to be so tho I dont know many 5-pont calvinists who believe that anyway 🙂

    • Reply June 6, 2020

      Mong Santiago

      It still boils down to whether causal determinism is true or not. If it’s true, then that’s correct, Calvinists are causally determined to believe in Calvinism. If not, then they believe in Calvinism out of their own will ?

    • Reply June 6, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      Mong Santiago I am specifically shocked on the issue of missions and evangelism – no point IF all ppl are already predestined

    • Reply June 6, 2020

      Mong Santiago

      An honest Calvinist would admit that they do not know who the “elects” are, so they evangelize thinking that the one whom they’re evangelizing to might be an elect. They don’t usually talk about the doctrine of election though when evangelizing. By the way, do you know that you don’t have to be a Calvinist to believe in predestination? That you can affirm that man has free will but at the same time God predetermines all events? Predestination is inevitable if you believe that God is certain in regards to what will happen in the future

    • Reply June 6, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      Mong Santiago and an honest Armnian like me would admit that there are times where God dont give us NO choice 🙂

    • Reply June 6, 2020

      Jo Kothenbeutel

      Calvinism twists some Bible verses to come up with their beliefs.

      Automatic false doctrine.

    • Reply June 6, 2020

      Manfred Boensch

      Jo Kothenbeutel Like what?

    • Troy Day Calvinists evangelize because God has also predetermined the means by which people come to faith, the foolishness of preaching.

  • Reply June 6, 2020

    Varnel Watson

    Philip Williams you may remember that on this issue RichardAnna Boyce holds some new doctrine of free grace that beyond heretical NOW has grown to be just another case of hyper calvinism where ppl do not get ever sanctified AND can freely sin away without falling off grace for the life of it

  • Pentecostals don’t believe in Genesis 1….

  • Reply June 6, 2020

    Daniel Sidderley

    Good man… Calvinism is a demonic system full of lies from Satan.

  • Reply June 6, 2020

    Rebecca Guzel

    I agree! ??

  • The name Pentecostal says it all.

  • Reply June 6, 2020

    RichardAnna Boyce

    Troy Day, How do you know when you’ve really believed? How do you know when you are fully sanctified by stopping your purposeful unbiblical misreading of my beliefs? Since your idea of “genuine faith” must be proved by works and obedience, how do you know your faith qualifies as the real thing, since you can always do and obey more? What is it that really saves you anyway, your faith, or Jesus who is the object of your faith? How can your faith be validated by subjective introspection when your feelings and experiences fluctuate? And if the object of your faith, the Lord Jesus Christ, saves you, shouldn’t you validate your faith only by whether it rests in Him?

    • Reply June 7, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      proves again you are A calvinist

    • Reply June 7, 2020

      RichardAnna Boyce

      Troy Day this is for the benefit of others reading our discussion so Holy Spirit can teach them the truth brother

    • Reply June 7, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      RichardAnna Boyce you are a TRUE calvinist – be proud Free grace is NO grace at all IF Jesus didnt pay the price

  • Reply June 6, 2020

    Michael Lavender

    Cause you’re lost

    • Reply June 7, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      so God predestined ppl to hell – youre so funny

    • Reply June 7, 2020

      Michael Lavender

      Troy Day duh

    • Reply June 7, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      Michael Lavender I know its hard to respond to that one IT is OK not to be able to respond to it as the BIBLE does not either 🙂 Just not there – humanistic teaching at best

  • Free will means you are free to chose what you want. But the problem is your nature is dead(eph.2:1) and unrighteous(rom.3:12-14). Your free will is corrupted by sin that is why you do not chose God unless God chose you.

  • Reply June 7, 2020

    Trevor Hatfield

    If I am an Arminian and believe God gives us a choice, then that’s my choice; if Calvinism is correct then God made me believe I have a choice when I don’t really have a choice. Either way, I make a choice or at least think I do. Change my mind.

    • Reply June 7, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      cant have it both ways – both ways is NO way

    • Reply June 7, 2020

      Trevor Hatfield

      Troy Day then I don’t understand Calvinism.

  • Reply June 7, 2020

    Ian Hartley

    John 6. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
    For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
    And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
    And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 37 -40. Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

    • Reply June 7, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      WRONG exegesis – Jesus did not say ANY of that Calvinism predestination in Jn 6 – pls read again

    • Reply June 7, 2020

      Ian Hartley

      If there is a clear understanding of what Jesus said you cannot get closed than Scripture. According to the Book of John that is what Jesus said! If you want to interpret any other way that’s your opinion.

    • Reply June 7, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      Ian Hartley We can look at what JESUS actually said and agree on it being the BIBLE But my point is that what you offer as exegesis of Jn 6 is NOT what Jesus said at all Lets read Jn 6 exegete it together and you will see it for yourself

  • Reply June 7, 2020

    Varnel Watson

    CALVINISM makes NO sense and is NOT Biblical

    Why would JESUS send us to preach the GOSPEL to the end of the world if He already KNEW whos getting saved and who is predestined to hell for eternity? Did JESUS NOT know?

  • Reply June 10, 2020

    Varnel Watson

    I was JUST predestined NOT to be one Philip Williams Just like RichardAnna Boyce is predestined and eternally secured by free grace

  • Reply June 10, 2020

    Michael Lavender

    People are not calvinists because they spell God s e l f

  • Reply June 10, 2020

    RichardAnna Boyce

    Arminians warn we can lose salvation, and Hebrew warnings are written to believers. Puritans warn we were never saved in the first place.
    Calvin/Reformists believe in a perseverance of fruit bearing as well as perseverance of faith.
    Neonomians, MacArthur, Piper believe salvation is faith plus obedient fruitful works.
    Calvinist Experimental Predestinarian believe heaven is an inheritance not a gift,
    so unbelieving professors of faith can lose their inheritance; but EP never know if they are one of the elect until they meet God (when it’s too late).
    Arminian is slightly closer to Scripture than Calvinism,
    but FREE GRACE model is closest.

    Free Grace agree to Calvinists eternal security of the Christian,
    and also Arminian warnings in New Testament apply to Christians.
    F G Partners will reign in eternity with Christ, but are in danger of severe discipline by losing reward of reigning with Christ, while still having secure salvation.

  • Reply July 2, 2020

    Varnel Watson

    tell us why and how Calvinism
    Is
    Dangerous Harry Jones

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