“Therefore God Exists.”

Fasting doesn’t change God
Posted by in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

Some months back I was on an Apologetic site called “Therefore God Exists.” The moderator and others on the site seemed quite knowledgeable and friendly until I brought up a sensitive issue. You see there is a Calvinist Pastor in our area who teaches that once you are saved, you can even commit suicide and still be assured of going to Heaven. In fact one of his colleagues apparently made the statement that “once you are saved, you could even die in bed with another man’s wife and still be assured of going to Heaven as you cannot lose your salvation.” Well one of this pastor’s flock took him so seriously that, when the going got rough, he did in fact kill himself. And at the funeral the pastor assured the family that he was in heaven as again you cannot lose your salvation. I am not looking to debate the question of whether or not suicide always results in one going to hell. However it seems to me that the dangers of this sort of preaching need to be addressed in a manner in which the Church becomes a source of strength to those who are struggling. This man seems to instead be in the position of encouraging them to jump off the cliff.

David Dale Alderman [02/03/2015 10:33 AM]
The same Lord who said every sin and blasphemy committed among men shall be forgiven them also said if a man loves me he will keep my word. Suicide is not an unforgivable sin, neither is sexual immorality; but for each individual Christian the real issue is this: if you excuse sin in your life how can you possibly know that you’re going to heaven?

David Dale Alderman [02/03/2015 10:36 AM]
We encourage Christians to continue struggling with sin until they break through to victory; We do that with sympathy knowing how weak we ourselves are- but sin must always be seen as sin.

John Duncan [02/03/2015 11:07 AM]
No wilful known sin is forgiven without repentance and there is not a more Scriptural, basic doctrine than that. OSAS blinds people to the most important doctrines of the Bible. Once someone gets so commited to OSAS they will twist ALL contradicting Scriptures to fit their pressuposition. You cannot change someones mind on that issue, while they are so committed. There is no prophet in debating or argueing with those committed to this false doctrine – except for the glory of God.

John Duncan [02/03/2015 11:09 AM]
Gal. 5:4 “you have fallen away from grace.” Paul did not believe it so neither should we.

John Duncan [02/03/2015 11:13 AM]
It is profitable to bring people to the understanding that a truly saved person would not kill themselves. So those that murder themselves were never saved in the first place according to the BIble.

John Duncan [02/03/2015 11:17 AM]
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Howard Gardner [02/03/2015 11:38 AM]
I would like to think that what is being said from our pulpits gives people an inward strength to go out and face life’s problems head on in the power of the Holy Spirit. This man instead seems to be giving his people the incentive to either just quit or to live like the devil. Either way they supposedly get a free pass to Heaven.

John Duncan [02/03/2015 12:09 PM]
This is the lie as old as the garden, “You shall surely not die.” That takes away people inhibitions to sin against God. “Go ahead kill yourself, commit murder, rape, molestation, porn…you will not spiritually die” says the sly deceiver. But the Bible says, “the soul that sins it shall SURELY die.”

John Duncan [02/03/2015 12:48 PM]
A true Calvinist believes in the doctrine of “perseverance of the saints.” They believe that a truly saved individual will demonstrate their true repentance and salvation by persevering in a holy life until they go to heaven. So a true Calvinist would believe if a person murdered themselves they would demonstrate they were never truly converted or what we would call a false convert. But modern OSAS in it’s worst form would say holiness is not the evidence of true salvation and one could die with a sinful lifestyle and go to heaven. Only the most extreme OSAS advocates believes this and are opposed by all true Bible believers.

Howard Gardner [02/03/2015 12:53 PM]
Right John. That’s what i was trying to say above. There are only a few of what I guess would be classified as “hyper-Calvinists” who would fall into this category. I suspect that John MacArthur may be in this class but again those on the other site got real agitated that I even brought his name up. I do know that he also had a member of his congregation commit suicide and that similar charges were made that it resulted from what he had said from the pulpit.

Isaiah White Theologian [02/03/2015 2:00 PM]
So unfortunate…i don’t believe in once saved always saved… I believe in the completeness of man’s salvation…

Paul Hughes [02/03/2015 5:32 PM]
They say “Liberals are Liberals first,” and likewise it is a truism that many Calvinists are Calvinists first, mindlessly superimposing the Calvinist “analogy/rule of faith” and theologically-loaded Calvinist terminology on every Scripture, becoming immune to reason and the plain meaning of Scripture.

Evangilist Jimmy Callaway [02/18/2015 1:14 PM]
i don’t believe in once saved always saved.. if it was true God would have told us so. but He didn’t?

16 Comments

  • Reply March 24, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    right right Daniel J Hesse for GOD doesnt change

  • Reply March 24, 2019

    Daniel J Hesse

    Interesting article. I heard one pastor declare when we go to heaven and see such and such. I believe everyone there knew sas lifestyle. I wondered about his intention or knowledge base.

  • Reply March 24, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    yes good one from 2015 brought back

  • Reply March 24, 2019

    Philip Williams

    But he gives grace to the humble.

  • Reply March 24, 2019

    Marius Mateescu

    And yet Ester fasted, why?

    • Reply March 24, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      did you read the article?

  • Reply March 24, 2019

    Mark Lloyd

    Mark to Troy Day – When the Ninevites fasted after hearing the word from Jonah, God metaknowed and chose not to destroy them. God was still God. But, at least in part due to fasting, he chose a new course of action.

    • Reply March 24, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      does this mean their fast changed GOD? Did not God himself send the prophet to challenge them to repent?

    • Reply March 24, 2019

      Mark Lloyd

      Troy Day – But God did not metaknow away from destroying them until after they responded with fasting and ashes. If they had not fasted they would not have lasted.

    • Reply March 24, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      just a side question – did you actually read the article?

    • Reply March 24, 2019

      Mark Lloyd

      Troy Day – I responded to the quote. Not the article.

  • Reply March 25, 2019

    Christopher Boggess

    No it changes you

  • Reply March 25, 2019

    Christopher Boggess

    True fast is to break the yoke of bodage right

  • Reply March 25, 2019

    Christopher Boggess

    Isiah 58
    Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

  • Reply March 25, 2019

    Philip Williams

    Over many years, I have rarely fasted for religious purposes. But, on occasions of difficult news, I would spontaneously cease eating.

    I also know Godly women who began fasting when the Spirit told them their sons were in great danger while serving in wartime. Some would not eat until they received news that their sons were out of danger.

    Fasting can be a way of praying and seeking God’s intervention. It may be a way of obtaining a change in our lives that God has sought by bringing about the event. Consider the situation of the child who became ill due to King David’s sin. Even if God did not answer in the way David desired, God did recognize his repentance.

    Fasting can definitely help in getting close to God, not because God requires it, but to keep our flesh from ruling us when we are seeking God. But if we aren’t seeking God while fasting, we will get no answer from God who looks on our hearts.

    Fasting will not help unless our hearts are serking to be obedient to God. But if the latter is our aim, himbling ourselves through fasting is a way of getting God’s attention if only due to the changes it brings about in us.

  • Reply March 25, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    Christopher Boggess it is always about food
    has to deal with the original sin of eating

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