Practical application of Pentecostal theology in politics, economy and social issues
If Jesus was the eternal son in the past, why didnt Satan recognize him. Why did he ask “if you are the son of god”?
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The rapture, the catching away of the living to join Jesus and the dead in Christ in the air before the impending Tribulation is seemingly on the minds of many at this late hour in human history. The faithful are watching while waiting, scoffers are scoffing, and the unfaithful are busy preparing for this event […]
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Brody Pope
Jesus wasn’t the Son until he was begotten. Prior to the incarnation, he was the Word.
Varnel Watson
Same ol from ol Ricky Grimsley The same discussion as it happened before http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/jehovahs-witnesses-hold-adoptionism/
Brody Pope
So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Hebrews 5:5 KJV
Ricky Grimsley
Lol just answer the question and stop avoiding with mindless jehovah witness references. Has anyone ever posed this question to you troy?
Varnel Watson
Brody Pope You may be not getting it. Not sure what your conference believes but pls consult with my old friend David Lewayne Porter on that He is a seasoned pastor with experience in doctrine and knows cog beliefs
Roc Davis
I think it was a simple, sarcastic remark, trying to make Jesus “prove” himself. If you can do these things, if you really are…prove it. Was essentially the context.
Varnel Watson
Roc Davis on the money Ricky Grimsley is falling into the infamous VICTORIA OSTEEN #CHRISTOLOGYFAIL http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/victoria-osteen-christologyfail/
Varnel Watson
I believe that Ricky Grimsley No way around it
Ricky Grimsley
Still waiting to hear someone explain what son means then. Someone explain how to eternal persons that are the same being can be father and son when neither have a beginning?
Varnel Watson
Not just son but Son of God. Somewhat entirely different, eh?
Ricky Grimsley
Nope. Still avoiding.
Varnel Watson
Not avoiding – just not including Catholic Mary worshiping as a necessary requirement for the Son of God to be the Son of God. Actually, even Mary worshiping Catholics believe in the Eternal Sonship of Christ
Ricky Grimsley
The Catholics view of christ and mary was based on paganism. I would hardly look to them for guidance.
Tony Conger
This day have I begotten you????
Ricky Grimsley
This day……in eternity past? Nah.
Varnel Watson
Did the Son of God really need 9 months to be begotten?
And which day was that exactly? 9 months prior?
One day is like 1000 yrs for the Lord?
Guys, your hereticatology is so easy to easily disrupted that is almost not worth the time pursuing… But here is the MAIN question:
Are you two saying that the Son of God actually needed an earthly vessel like Mary (or anyone else) to make Him the Son of God?
Are yall into #Maryworshiping?
Tony Conger
That’s ridiculous Troy Day. Since we have gone around and around about this before without you answering the questions presented there’s no sense in continuing this. God bless
Varnel Watson
Tony You did not answer my question yet again avoiding it. If you truly believe Jesus needed a human vessel like Mary to become the Son of God you are truly in a #Maryworshiping? Pls note that even #Maryworshiping Catholics believe Jesus is the Eternal Son of God..
Tony Conger
Jehovah is eternal. He was sent by the 1st possession of the godhead in ex. 3. His office as the son however has a beginning and an end. I’ve said that many times. So now you’re going to answer all the questions you avoided?
Varnel Watson
#Maryworshiping #majorfail You are still avoiding the Mary question 🙂 Come one Ricky Grimsley take parti in this already …
Joseph Kidwell
Tony Conger is correct. I’ve said all that I can say on this subject. on a different thread. If the comprehensive Biblical case that I presented changed no minds, I have nothing more to add.
Varnel Watson
Joseph Can you just answer the Mary question you failed to answer last time (as well as Ricky Grimsley and Tony Conger) Do you truly believe Jesus needed a human vessel like Mary to become the Son of God?
Joseph Kidwell
LOL!!! Troy Day, you never answered the many Scriptures that I presented. Nothing can be gained by carrying on this discussion as far as I’m concerned. Be blessed.
Tony Conger
He took the mantle of son when he was begotten. Do you believe he was created? Have you become Jehovah’s witness?
Hunter McLain
Jesus is God. He became incarnate but he was no less God!
Hunter McLain
It doesn’t make sense to say He was the eternal Son when The Father and the Son are literally the same.
Varnel Watson
Mary is not God. She was used by God but was not God!
Hunter McLain
AMEN!! She is a woman just like all Holy Women!
Tony Conger
Correct
Varnel Watson
These who dont confess the eternal generation of the Son fall under the Arian heresy – as simple as that. The Nicene Creed was adopted in the face of the Arian heresy, whose leader, Arius, was a member of the clergy of Alexandria. “Arius objected to Alexander’s (the bishop of the time) apparent carelessness in blurring the distinction of nature between the Father and the Son by his emphasis on eternal generation”.
Alexander rightfully accused Arius of denying the divinity of the Son and also of being too “Jewish” and “Greek” in his thought. Both Arius and Alexander rejected Gnosticism, Manichaeism and Sabellian formulae. The Nicene Creed was created as a result of the extensive adoption of the doctrine of Arius far outside Alexandria, in order to clarify the key tenets of the Christian faith.
Joseph Kidwell
Absolutely not, Troy Day! The Doctrine of the Eternal Sonship of Christ paved the way for Arianism. If Jesus is an eternal Son (which is impossible) then He is not co-equal with the Father and is a “god) as the New World Translation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses says in Jn. 1:1. Furthermore, the Oneness who are Sabellians deny the Eternal Sonship of Christ and they are direct opposites of the JW’s. Finally and please read this very slowly so that you do not misunderstand, Jesus Christ is co-equal and co-eternal with the Father. He was NOT created but is the Creator (JN.1:2.)
Varnel Watson
If the Son is “eternally begotten” of the Father, then how can he also be born of Mary?
Full Question
In the Nicene Creed the Catholic Church asserts that the Son of God is eternally begotten, but you also assert that the Son of God was born of the Virgin Mary. Can you explain how the Son can be begotten twice?
The question you ask goes directly to the necessity of understanding who Jesus is. Scripture affirms that Jesus is both “the Son of Man” (Mt 12:8) and “the Son of God” (Mt 8:29).
These dual events are precipitated by who Jesus is: true God and true Man. The events are of a different order. The first took place hidden in God’s own being, apart from time, eternally. It was the act of God alone. The other took place in plain view, as a sign to all of us, at a specific time and place, within God’s creation. And while it was surely the work of God, the act of giving birth to the Son was the act of a woman, a human being.
So the Son is not “begotten twice.” He is begotten (“caused to be”) after the manner of his Father. And he is born, brought forth as a unique human being, after the manner of his mother. They are two different, but complimentary, acts.