“Wrestling with Alligators, Prophets, and Theologians,” C. Peter Wagner

Posted by Pentecostal Theology in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

In “Wrestling with Alligators, Prophets, and Theologians,” C. Peter Wagner of NAR/Liberation Theology proposed that you cannot move in the prophetic and be a good theologian at the same time. Recently it was argued that one cannot serve both God and theology. What do you think?

Charles Page [07/24/2015 4:00 PM]
let’s all kiss our brains good bye. All we need is a sweet, sweet spirit!!! 😉

Timothy Carter [07/24/2015 4:15 PM]
To the person who asked the question: Define THEOLOGY please?

Charles Page [07/24/2015 4:25 PM]
she knows!!!

John Kissinger [07/24/2015 5:57 PM]
What I hear you both saying is that: When you start defining theology you can kiss you brains good buy. John Ruffle you never shared your NAR experience http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/a-combined-topic-on-nar/

Charles Page [07/24/2015 6:36 PM]
no, when you have stopped defining theology you have kissed your brains good bye!

Drew Banacos [07/24/2015 6:38 PM]
I thought the point of the author was that you can turn theology into an objective study of deity you have no relationship, experience, or true adherence to. We should actually live by what we learn. Sometimes there is a disconnect.

Edwin Mendez [07/24/2015 6:55 PM]
TNDT has a good Biblically sound point in an article on ????????, the Greek word used for our definition of “reasoning” which is at the essence of theology. The context is 2 cor 10 which the author of this article says the following:

“But if ???????? are hurled from their high keep, Paul takes them prisoner ??? ??????? ??? ??????? (unto the obedience of Christ), 2 Cor 10:5. Far from repudiation ??????????? altogether, he DEMANDS IT’S RENEWAL.(CAPS mine) But now it must be oriented to the facts established by the reality of God.” (TDNT, IX:288) The verses that show this truth are 1 cor 4:1, 2 Cor 10:7, 11, 12:6.

So reasoning with scripture, or theologizing is something supported by scripture. Actually Paul’s mind was so immersed in scripture, He would allude to verses in his writing without intending to quote or cite them as he usually did.it was 2nd nature to him.

Charles Page [07/24/2015 6:55 PM]
Drew, in theory you maybe correct however can a person direct his thoughts toward God without being influence by Him? Can you look up in the sky and say there is no God. God is true and everyman a liar. There are people who gnash their teeth at God and they end up in the lake of fire. Most people who claim they hate God are gritting their teeth toward Him. their no does not always mean no and their yes does not always mean yes.

John Kissinger [07/24/2015 6:55 PM]
Drew Banacos there’s such stream in theology where one begins to worship the book instead of the Word (God), but it’s far fetched and taken seriosly only by some non-sola-scruptura reformed thinkers

John Romaine [07/24/2015 9:20 PM]
Unless people think and share their ideas of the Word of God, who then will dare to study and put forth ideas? Even those who stand to one side and complain that the Holy Spirit is the only way to understand. God sent His Holy Spirit to dwell within us, what are angels going to delve into the truth of the Holy Sciptures” Read the Letter to the Hebrews, the aswer is in those pages.

Drew Banacos [07/25/2015 2:10 AM]
Right. I understand your point, Charles, which made me hesitant to word it exactly the way I did. I just don’t think the article was discrediting theology or saying we should leave behind our brains. I think it is perhaps a helpful reminder to recognize the subject of theology, namely God. I don’t think the Holy Spirit and reason are enemies (I hope no one thinks that). I definitely agree that directing our thoughts more and more accurately towards the true God (which one does in good theology) will change a person. I cannot look up in the sky and say there is no God. But there are people who do and can say that; there are various reasons. I assume that you are saying that if we really do believe the things that we study about God and reflect on him, we will be changed. This I can agree on. So yes, the article probably could have been more technical. I think it was worded in a way that perhaps an average person could relate to or grow from. The disconnect may in reality be because one only believes something on a shallow level. But praxis does have a role in shaping our theology too, I believe.

John Ruffle [07/25/2015 3:10 AM]
Going back to the Desiring God article, I wholeheartedly agree with everything the writer says and the spirit in which he frames it.

(As for NAR and CPW I don’t quite see the connection, not having access to Wagner’s quote – Maybe I missed something?)

John Ruffle [07/25/2015 3:14 AM]
Oh- one comment I will make. In my understanding, there is little to no connection between NAR and Liberation Theology (LT). If anyone has evidence that CPW is an advocate of LT then please state it.

Timothy Carter [07/25/2015 4:28 AM]
B You said “What I hear you both saying is that: When you start defining theology you can kiss your brains good bye.” How did you come to the conclusion that I WOULD SUGGEST THAT? ??? I am confused. I asked for a DEFINITION. What is the definition of the word THEOLOGY? OLOGY means to Study which nobody can do with out pulling information into their brains. THEO is the Greek for God. Put the two together. THEOLOGY is- The study of God. So Theology is worship. We can we should worship Him with all of our Minds / Brain , Body , and spirit. As a Pentecostal Theologian I would never expect someone to study God or worship without their CONSENT of mind.

John Kissinger [07/25/2015 5:48 AM]
Timothy Carter Easy 🙂 combining both of ya’lls sayings. How do you feel about that?

John Kissinger [07/25/2015 5:49 AM]
John Ruffle I will strongly disagree that ” there is little to no connection between NAR and Liberation Theology (LT)” Pls ask my why!

Timothy Carter [07/25/2015 10:09 AM]
B please explain? I would like to hear ?

Pentecostal Theology [07/30/2015 9:43 PM]
Dominion Theology?

John Ruffle [07/31/2015 1:07 AM]
I am asking you why? Now someone has thrown Dominion Theology into the mix.

OK – you know what, I’d like ask also about where the Convergence movement fits into all this. Actually you may be correct in your view

Timothy Carter [07/31/2015 1:16 AM]
B if you are talking about combing my statement with Charles Page please don’t because I don’t think I have ever agreed with him.

John Ruffle [07/31/2015 1:25 AM]
“There is a great difference between the wisdom of a devout man (or woman) enlightened by God, and the knowledge of a learned and studious scholar. More noble by far is the learning infused from above by divine grace, than that painfully acquired by the industry of man.” – Thomas a Kempis , #TheImitationofChrist Book 3, Ch 31.

Pentecostal Theology [07/31/2015 8:11 AM]
“All five points? I dont see how” said Ricky Grimsley

Pentecostal Theology [07/31/2015 8:12 AM]
“I am 3/5!” responded Donald McLeod Carmont

Pentecostal Theology [07/31/2015 8:13 AM]
“Well then then you probably have a bigger fan club than me. I am mostly an open-theist but i feel that god does have a predestined elect that really dont get to choose to fulfill parts of his plan. I never bought into god wooing all people the same. Obviously paul, john, the baptist, Jeremiah and on and on had different experiences than me. You cant say that john was filled with the holy ghost from the womb and then say god treats us all the same.Calvanism makes more sense than armenianism to me. I agree with James white when he says that the only consistent Armenian is an open theist.” finalized Ricky Grimsley

Jack Pettit [07/31/2015 7:30 PM]
Oswald Chambers wrote that the greatest challenge in the church is not the “Good against evil” rather it is “Man’s Good over God’s Best.”

John Kissinger [07/31/2015 8:10 PM]
Yes, dominion theology is definitely one of the links between NAR and Liberation Theology. But this is just for starters. There’s so many more connections there Timothy Carter Marxist economics, Christian reconstruction, etc.

Pentecostal Theology [08/01/2015 8:10 AM]
pls also see the COMBINED TOPIC ON NAR here: http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/a-combined-topic-on-nar/

John Kissinger [08/04/2015 8:27 PM]
Timothy Carter Kingdom-now, we live in the Millennium now, Millennium started on the Day of Pentecost, Jesus returned @ 70 AD (not sure about this last one, but Charles Page claims he knows). etc.

Charles Page [08/04/2015 8:28 PM]
A-mill!!

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