In 1 John 4:2b, what does John mean by ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα? “In flesh [and blood]” or “among humans/men”? And why is this such an important issue?
Please provide primary source(s) for any historical references.
By the way, my own view is that “John” wrote his letter to correct various misrepresentations of Jesus, such as saying that he was divine or an angel (the message of the antichrists) which he considered idolatry.
σάρξ, σαρκός, ἡ (Hom.+; ‘flesh’). ① the material that covers the bones
of a human or animal body, flesh lit. 1 Cor 15:39abcd; Hv 3, 10, 4; 3,
12, 1. The pl. (which denotes flesh in the mass [Lucian, Dial. Mort.
10, 5], whereas the sing. rather denotes the substance.—Herodas 4, 61;
Gen 40:19; 1 Km 17:44; 4 Km 9:36; PsSol 4:19; TestJob 13:5; Philo;
Jos., Ant. 12, 211; Just., A I, 26, 7; Mel., P. 52, 383; Ath. 34, 2)
Lk 24:39 v.l.; Rv 19:18, 21 (4 [6] Esdr [POxy 1010, 16] cannibalism
out of hunger, sim. Mel., P. 52, 383; Quint. Smyrn. 11, 245: the
σάρκες of the slain are food for the birds) B 10:4; metaph. Rv 17:16.
It decays 1 Cl 25:3; cp. Ac 2:31 (cp. 2a below). Normally gives forth
an evil odor when burned MPol 15:2. W. bones (s. ὀστέον) 1 Cl 6:3 (Gen
2:23); Lk 24:39; Eph 5:30 v.l. (metaph.). Paul speaks of his illness
as a σκόλοψ τῇ σαρκί (s. σκόλοψ) 2 Cor 12:7. ἡ ἐν σαρκὶ περιτομή the
physical circumcision (cp. Just., D. 10, 1 al.) Ro 2:28; cp. Eph
2:11b; Col 2:13 (ἀκροβυστία 2); Gal 6:13 (ἡ σάρξ=the flesh that is
circumcised); B 9:4. Metaph.: the corrosion on the precious metals of
the rich φάγεται τὰς σάρκας ὑμῶν ὡς πῦρ Js 5:3.—Ign. describes the
elements of the Eucharist as σὰρξ (or αἷμα) Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ IRo 7:3;
IPhld 4; ISm 7:1. Also J 6:51–56 urges that one must eat the flesh
(and drink the blood) of the Human One or Son of Man (Just., A I, 66,
2; s. TPhilips, Die Verheissung der hl. Eucharistie nach Joh. 1922;
Bultmann ad loc.; AWikenhauser ’48, 105f).—His anti-Docetic position
also leads Ign. to use the concept ‘flesh (and blood) of p 915
Christ’ in other contexts as well ITr 8:1; IPhld 5:1.—For Mt 16:17;
Gal 1:16; Eph 6:12; and 1 Cor 15:50 s. 3a. ② the physical body as
functioning entity, body, physical body ⓐ as substance and living
entity (Aeschyl., Sept. 622: opp. νοῦς; Ex 30:32; 4 Km 6:30; TestAbr A
20 p. 103, 6 [Stone p. 54] πάντα τὰ μέλη τῆς σαρκός μου; w. καρδία or
ψυχή Alex. Aphr., An. p. 98, 7–10 Br.; Ps 37:8; 62:2; Eccl 2:3; Ezk
11:19; 44:7 a1.; Jos., Bell. 6, 47, Ant. 19, 325; Ar.15, 7) οὔτε ἡ
σὰρξ αὐτοῦ εἶδεν διαφθοράν Ac 2:31 (but s. 1). W. ψυχή 1 Cl 49:6 (Tat.
13:2 al.). W. καρδία Ac 2:26 (Ps 15:9).—Eph 5:29. ἑόρακαν τὸ πρόσωπόν
μου ἐν σαρκί they have seen me face to face Col 2:1. ἕως ἂν τὸν
χριστὸν ἐν σαρκὶ ἴδῃ before he had seen the Messiah in person GJs 24:4
(cp. Lk 2:26). Opp. πνεῦμα (Ath. 31:3; PGM 5, 460 ἐπικαλοῦμαί σε τὸν
κτίσαντα πᾶσαν σάρκα κ. πᾶν πνεῦμα) 1 Cor 5:5; 2 Cor 7:1; Col 2:5; 1
Pt 4:6; Hm 3:1; 10, 2, 6; cp. AcPl Ant 13:17 (=Aa, I 237, 2; s. οἶδα);
also in relation to Christ (though this is disputed) J 6:63; Hs 5, 6,
5–7; cp. 1 Ti 3:16.—ἀσθένεια τῆς σαρκός bodily ailment Gal 4:13; s.
vs. 14. ἀσθενὴς τῇ σαρκί weak in the body Hs 9, 1, 2. ὁ ἀλγῶν σάρκα
the one who is ill in body B 8:6. πάσχειν σαρκί 1 Pt 4:1b. Cp. 2 Cor
7:5. ἡ τῆς σαρκὸς καθαρότης the purity of the body Hb 9:13 (opp.
καθαρίζειν τὴν συνείδησιν vs. 14). σαρκὸς ἀπόθεσις ῥύπου 1 Pt 3:21 (s.
ῥύπος 1). The σάρξ is raised fr. the dead (s. ParJer 6:9; Theoph. Ant.
1, 7 [74, 2]) 1 Cl 26:3; 2 Cl 9:1. ἀνάστασις σαρκός AcPlCor 1:12; 2:24
(σαρκὸς ἀνάστασιν Just., D. 80, 5); cp. ἀναστήσεσθε ἔχοντες ὑγιῆ τὴν
σάρκα AcPlCor 2:32. Of the body of Christ during his earthly ministry
Eph 2:14 (JHart, The Enmity in His Flesh: Exp. 6th ser., 3, 1901,
135–41); Hb 10:20; 1 Pt 3:18; 4:1a; 1J 4:2; 2J 7; B 5:1, 10f; 6:7, 9;
7:5; 12:10; IEph 7:2; Pol 7:1; AcPlCor 2:6b. Married couples form μία
σάρξ (Gen 2:24; s. Ath. 33, 2 τὴν σάρκα πρὸς σάρκα …
κοινωνίαν.—GAicher, Mann u. Weib ein Fleisch: BZ 5, 1907, 159–65) Mt
19:5f; Mk 10:8ab; 1 Cor 6:16; Eph 5:31 (on these passages, TBurkill,
ZNW 62, ’71, 115–20). δικαιώματα σαρκός behind ‘all sorts of
ceremonial washings’ there are regulations that concern the physical
body Hb 9:10.—On ὑποτάγητε τῷ ἐπισκόπῳ ὡς ὁ Χριστὸς τῷ πατρὶ κατὰ
σάρκα IMg 13:2 s. Hdb. ad loc. and MRackl, Die Christologie des hl.
Ignatius v. Ant. 1914, 228.—πνεῦμα δυνάμεως … ὁ θεὸς … κατέπεμψεν εἰς
σάρκα τουτέστιν εἰς τὴν Μαρίαν God sent a powerful spirit (prob. a
ref. to the kind of divine breath that brought the first human being
to life [Gen 2:7]) into flesh, that is, into Mary AcPl Ha 8, 26=BMM
recto 34; s. AcPlCor 1:14. ⓑ as someth. with physical limitations,
life here on earth (ApcEsdr 4:4 p. 28, 3 Tdf. σάρκα ἀνθρωπίνην φορῶ)
θλῖψιν τῇ σαρκὶ ἕξουσιν 1 Cor 7:28. Cp. 2 Cor 4:11; Col 1:24. Of
Christ τὸ σῶμα τῆς σαρκὸς αὐτοῦ his body with its physical limitations
Col 1:22; cp. 2:11 and s. cα below (cp. En 102:5 τὸ σῶμα τῆς σαρκὸς
ὑμῶν; 1QpHab 9:2; Orig., C. Cels. 6, 29, 25).—Of human life: ἀποδημεῖν
τῆς σαρκός MPol 2:2 (s. ἀποδημέω). ἐπιμένειν ἐν τῇ σαρκί Phil 1:24.
ζῆν ἐν σαρκί vs. 22; Gal 2:20. ἐν σ. περιπατεῖν 2 Cor 10:3a. ἐν σ.
τυγχάνειν Dg 5:8a. ὄντος ἔτι ἐν σ. σου AcPlCor 1:6. τὸν ἐπίλοιπον ἐν
σ. χρόνον 1 Pt 4:2. ἡ ἐπιδημία τῆς σαρκὸς ταύτης our sojourn in life
2 Cl 5:5. ἐν τῇ σαρκί in our earthly life 8:2. ⓒ as instrument of
various actions or expressions. α. In Paul’s thought esp., all parts
of the body constitute a totality known as σ. or flesh, which is
dominated by sin to such a degree that wherever flesh is, all forms of
sin are likew. present, and no good thing can live in the σάρξ Ro 7:18
(cp. Philo, Gig. 29 αἴτιον δὲ τῆς ἀνεπιστημοσύνης μέγιστον ἡ σὰρξ καὶ
ἡ πρὸς σάρκα οἰκείωσις; Sextus 317 ἀγαθὸν ἐν σαρκὶ μὴ ἐπιζήτει. The OT
lays no stress on a necessary relationship betw. flesh as a substance,
and sin. But for Epicurus the σάρξ is the bearer of sinful feelings
and desires as well as the means of sensual enjoyment: Ep. in Plut.,
Mor. 135c; 1087bf; 1089e; 1096c αἱ τῆς σαρκὸς ἐπιθυμίαι. Also Diog. L.
10, 145. Likew. Plut. himself: Mor. 101b ταῖς τῆς σαρκὸς ἡδοναῖς;
672e; 688d; 734a; Ps.-Plut., Mor. 107f σαρκὶ καὶ τοῖς πάθεσι ταύτης;
Maximus Tyr. 33, 7a. Cp. 4 Macc 7:18 τὰ τῆς σαρκὸς πάθη; Philo, Deus
Imm. 143 σαρκὸς ἡδονή, Gig. 29; TestJud 19:4; TestZeb 9:7; ApcMos 25
[p. 14, 2 Tdf.] εἰς τὴν ἁμαρτίαν τῆς σαρκός); Ro 6:19; 7:25 (opp.
νοῦς); 8:3a, 4–9 (cp. Persius 2, 63 scelerata pulpa, which
contaminates devotion to deity), 12f; Gal 5:13, 24; Col 2:23; Jd 23;
AcPlCor 2:11, 15; Dg 6:5 (opp. ψυχή, as Plut., Mor. 101b). Opp. τὸ
πνεῦμα Ro 8:4, 5, 6, 9, 13; Gal 3:3; 5:16, 17ab; 6:8ab; J 3:6; B 10:9.
τὸ μὲν πνεῦμα πρόθυμον, ἡ δὲ σὰρξ ἀσθενής (cp. Orig., C. Cels. 2, 25,
8) Mt 26:41; Mk 14:38; Pol 7:2. σὰρξ ἁμαρτίας sinful flesh Ro 8:3b.
ἐπιθυμία (τῆς) σαρκός (cp. Maximus Tyr. 20, 9f σαρκῶν … ἐπιθυμίας) Gal
5:16; 1J 2:16; B 10:9. Pl. Eph 2:3a, cp. b; 2 Pt 2:18; cp. Ro 13:14.
τὰ ἔργα τῆς σαρκός Gal 5:19 (s. Vögtle at πλεονεξία). τὰ θελήματα τῆς
σαρκός Eph 2:3b. ὁ νοῦς τῆς σαρκός Col 2:18. τὸ σῶμα τῆς σαρκός the
body of (sinful) flesh 2:11; cp. 1:22 and s. b above (cp. Sir 23:17
σῶμα σαρκὸς αὐτοῦ; En 102:5 τῷ σώματι τῆς σαρκὸς ὑμῶν). τὰ τῆς σαρκός
what pertains to (sinful) flesh Ro 8:5b. ἐν (τῇ) σαρκὶ εἶναι be in an
unregenerate (and sinful) state Ro 7:5; 8:8f. τὰ ἔθνη ἐν σαρκί Eph
2:11a. κατὰ σάρκα εἶναι Ro 8:5a; ζῆν vs. 12b; 13; Dg 5:8b; περιπατεῖν
Ro 8:4; 2 Cor 10:2; βουλεύεσθαι 1:17; στρατεύεσθαι 10:3b; cp. IRo 8:3
(opp. κατὰ γνώμην θεοῦ). β. source of the sexual urge. The σάρξ is the
source of the sexual urge, without any suggestion of sinfulness
connected w. it ἐκ θελήματος σαρκὸς ἐγεννήθησαν J 1:13. ⓓ as someth.
attractive 2 Pt 2:10 (a Hebraism, cp. Judg 2:12; 3 Km 11:10; Sir
46:10). S. also 3b. ③ one who is or becomes a physical being, living
being with flesh ⓐ of humans person, human being: πᾶσα σάρξ every
person, everyone (LXX; TestAbr B 7 p. 112, 3 [Stone p. 72]; GrBar
4:10; ApcEsdr 7:7; ApcMos 13 [p. 7, 1 Tdf.]; Mel., P. 55, 400: for
כָּל-בָּשָׂר; s. πᾶς 1aα) Lk 3:6 (Is 40:5); J 17:2; Ac 2:17 (Jo 3:1);
1 Pt 1:24 (Is 40:6); 1 Cl 59:3; 64; 2 Cl 7:6; 17:5 (the last two Is
66:24); AcPlCor 2:6a. οὐ πᾶσα σάρξ no person, nobody (En 14:21
end.—W-S. §26, 10a; B-D-F §275, 4; 302, 1; Rob. 752) Mt 24:22; Mk
13:20; Ro 3:20 (cp. Ps 142:2 πᾶς ζῶν); 1 Cor 1:29 (μή); Gal
2:16.—Though σ. in the foll. passages refers to body in its physical
aspect, it cannot be divorced from its conjunction with αἷμα, and the
unit σὰρξ καὶ αἷμα (cp. Sir 17:31; TestAbr B 13 p. 117, 26 [Stone p.
82]; Philo, Quis Div. Rer. Her. 57; Just., D. 135, 6) refers to a
human being in contrast to God and other transcendent beings Mt 16:17;
Gal 1:16; Eph 6:12 (here vice versa, αἷ. καὶ σ.). τὰ παιδία
κεκοινώνηκεν αἵματος καὶ σαρκός the children share mortal nature Hb
2:14, but with suggestion of its frailty, as indicated by the context
with its ref. to death. Because they are the opposites of the divine
nature σὰρξ καὶ αἷμα βασιλείαν θεοῦ κληρονομῆσαι οὐ δύναται 1 Cor
15:50 (JJeremias, NTS 2, ’56, 151–59). For Jd 7 s. b next. Cp. AcPl
Ant 13, 17 (=Aa I 237, 2) σαρκί personally (s. οἶδα 2). ⓑ of
transcendent entities ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο J 1:14 (RSeeberg, Festgabe
AvHarnack dargebracht 1921, 263–81.—Artem. 2, 35 p. 132, 27 ἐὰν
σάρκινοι οἱ θεοὶ φαίνωνται; Synes., Dio 6 p. 45b).—Of flesh other than
human: ὀπίσω σαρκὸς ἑτέρας after another kind of flesh (cp. Judg 2:12
ὀπίσω θεῶν ἑτέρων) i.e. of divine messengers who take on σ. when they
appear to humans (so Windisch et al.; difft. Frame et al. of same-sex
activity) Jd 7. p 916
…④ human/ancestral connection, human/mortal nature, earthly
descent (Did., Gen. 144, 25) Ἀβραὰμ τὸν προπάτορα ἡμῶν κατὰ σάρκα Ro
4:1 (Just., D. 43, 7 al.). οἱ συγγενεῖς μου κατὰ σάρκα 9:3. τοὺς τῆς
σαρκὸς ἡμῶν πατέρας Hb 12:9. τὸν Ἰσραὴλ κατὰ σάρκα the earthly Israel
1 Cor 10:18 (opp. τὸν Ἰσραὴλ τοῦ θεοῦ Gal 6:16). Of natural descent
τὰ τέκνα τῆς σαρκός children by natural descent Ro 9:8 (opp. τὰ τέκνα
τῆς ἐπαγγελίας). ὁ μὲν ἐκ τῆς παιδίσκης κατὰ σάρκα γεγέννηται Gal
4:23; cp. vs. 29. μου τὴν σάρκα my compatriots Ro 11:14 (s. Gen
37:27).—Of Christ’s physical nature Ro 8:3c; Hb 5:7. Christ is
descended fr. the patriarchs and fr. David (τὸ) κατὰ σάρκα according
to the human side of his nature, as far as his physical descent is
concerned Ro 1:3 (JDunn, Jesus: Flesh and Spirit [Ro 1:3f], JTS 24,
’73, 40–68); 9:5; 1 Cl 32:2; IEph 20:2. The context of 2 Cor 11:18
includes ancestry as a reason for boasting, but σ. in this pass.
applies as well to other aspects of Paul’s career and therefore
belongs more properly in 5…
⑤ the outward side of life as determined by normal perspectives or
standards, a transf. sense of 1 and 2. Usually w. κατά indicating norm
or standard σοφοὶ κατὰ σάρκα wise (people) according to human
standards 1 Cor 1:26. καυχᾶσθαι κατὰ (τὴν) σάρκα boast of one’s
outward circumstances, i.e. descent, manner of life, etc. (cp. 11:22)
2 Cor 11:18. κατὰ σάρκα Χριστόν Christ (the Messiah) from a human
point of view or as far as externals are concerned 5:16b, cp. a (κατά
B5bβ and 7a; also VWeber, BZ 2, 1904, 178–88; HWindisch, exc. ad loc.;
Rtzst., Mysterienrel.3, 374–76; FPorter, Does Paul Claim to Have Known
the Historical Jesus [2 Cor 5:16]?: JBL 47, 1928, 257–75; RMoxon, CQR
108, 1929, 320–28). οἱ κατὰ σάρκα κύριοι those who, according to human
standards, are masters Eph 6:5; Col 3:22. ὑμεῖς κατὰ τὴν σ. κρίνετε
you judge by outward things, by externals J 8:15. Of the route taken
in one’s earthly life ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ κατὰ σάρκα IRo 9:3.—ἐν σαρκὶ πεποιθέναι
place one’s trust in earthly things or physical advantages Phil 3:3f.
εὐπροσωπῆσαι ἐν σαρκί Gal 6:12. Onesimus is a beloved brother to
Philemon καὶ ἐν σαρκὶ καὶ ἐν κυρίῳ both as a human being (=personally,
in the external relationship betw. master and slave) and as a
Christian Phlm 16. ὑμῶν δὲ ἐν σαρκὶ ἐπισκόπῳ IEph 1:3 (cp. IMg
3:2).—HWindisch, Taufe u. Sünde 1908; EBurton, ICC Gal. 1920, 492–95;
WSchauf, Sarx 1924; WBieder, Auferstehung des Fleisches od. des
Leibes?: TZ 1, ’45, 105–20. W. special ref. to Paul: Ltzm., Hdb. exc.
on Ro 7:14 and 8:11; Lohmeyer (ἁμαρτία 3a); EKäsemann, Leib u. Leib
Christi ’33; RGrant, ATR 22, ’40, 199–203; RBultmann, Theologie des
NTs ’48, 228–49 (Engl. tr. by KGrobel, ’51 I, 227–59); LMarshall,
Challenge of NT Ethics ’47, 267–70; E Schweizer, Die hellenist.
Komponente im NT sarx-Begriff: ZNW 48, ’57, 237–53; two in KStendahl,
The Scrolls and the NT, ’57: KKuhn, 94–113 and WDavies, 157–82;
JPryke, ‘Spirit’ and ‘Flesh’ in Qumran and NT: RevQ 5, ’65, 346–60;
DLys, La chair dans l’AT ’67; ASand, D. Begriff ‘Fleisch’ ’67 (Paul);
RJewett, Paul’s Anthropological Terms ’71, 49–166. On Ign.:
CRichardson, The Christianity of Ign. of Ant. ’35, esp. 49 and 61. S.
also the lit. s.v. πνεῦμα, end.—B. 202. DELG. M-M. EDNT. TW. Spicq.
Sv.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon
of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p.
916). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
Link Hudson
What is important is truth not how truly Pentecostal it is.
Varnel Watson
pre-mil pre-Trib – for true Pentecostals only
Louise Cummings
B
Isara Mo
End times..end times.
Only Noah knew what going on….before He wiped off everything and reserve 8…
This time?
Jesus said Only the Father knows the hour..the day.
Troy Day Pentecostal views(??) on end time doesn’t matter much at this hour.
If you give a patient on ICU and inheritance will it really matter?
Such is our views…
Varnel Watson
pre-trab rapture is truly Pentecostal Link Hudson
Link Hudson
That opinion dpes not affect how things will occur.
Varnel Watson
It depends on the true Pentecostal theology
Link Hudson
Troy Day Where did most Pentecostal pastors study theology.
It doesn’t matter if it’s ‘true Pentecostal theology.’ What matters is the truth God has revealed and what God plans to do.
Bible over tradition.
Varnel Watson
ask Pompeo – he knows true Pentecostal doctrine http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/pompeo-rapture/
Charles Page
Link Hudson Luther Rice Seminary
Paul L. King
Actually, although the pre-trib, pre-mil position is dominant in Pentecostalism, other views are represented too. And many of the earliest Pentecostals (including Charles Parham) were partial rapturists–multiple raptures–believing on the basis of the parable of the 10 Virgins that those who were prepared and had the oil (sanctified or baptized in the Spirit) would be raptured pre-trib, but others would be raptured later.
Link Hudson
What about Luther Rice seminary?
Jevan Little
Pan-Trib
Varnel Watson
Charles Page is this like Pan-Am that went down in the 60s?
Jerome Herrick Weymouth
Jevan Little
Me too! I’m a pretribber turned into a pan tribber and Having mid-tribulation thoughts!
John Duncan
Founders of my Pentecostal Denomination believed like John Weasley amillinial. Now our fellowship believes Futurism but few understand many old timers in Pentecost followed Holiness eschatology like Weasley.
Varnel Watson
which one is your Pentecostal Denomination? b/c with some certainty Wesley held pre-mil especially as referred to the Rev 20 text – in his view on free-will and a-mil Wesley was anti-Augustinian meaning he believed in pre-mil and in free-will which Augustine disbelieved being a strong – amil in his eschatology This detail discussion on Wesley has been going on for sometimes in modern day Methodism http://archives.gcah.org/bitstream/handle/10516/596/Methodist-History-10-1989-Brown.pdf?sequence=1
John Duncan
Troy Day you are right. I mis spoke. Adam Clarke was the influential amillianial commentator I should have referred to. https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/acc/revelation-20.html
John Duncan
Our founders of the Congregational Holiness movement like Waston Sorrows were amillinial or tolerant of it. Our present leaders are like others that sheepishly admit that our eschatology became alone slowly. Holiness commentator Adam Clarke I assume was influential in this area.
John Duncan
The CH and PH (Oral Roberts) pentecostal denomination Split in 1922 over weather believers should go to doctors or not. CH said yes but we have since reconciled and share Emanuel college and are sister denominations trying to possible become one again. Neither ours nor all our other Pentecostal denominational brothers are completely proud or forthright with all of our history. Our oldest disciples as the COG COGP A/G would be shocking to modern Pentecostals today. A/G used to articulate Sactification as entire as COG and PH still do but meant different things. We all used to be against movies and were very open to pacifism and it were pacifist. Jewry, make up, short hair on women, long hair on men was forbidden. Etc. Eschatology was not as spelled out as it is today. I think Vinson Synan would enlighten very much on this as a PH Pentecostal historian. I have picked his brain and much of our modern leaders are ashamed of today were very important to our founders. Weather we have positively evolved of negatively is a hot topic.
Varnel Watson
I have to agree with this part of what Dr Paul L. King already stated
perhaps through much of the 20th century pre-trib pre-mil was the most prominent, but not totally. Many of the earliest Pentecostals in the first decade of Pentecostalism were partial rapturists, believing on the basis of the parable of the 10 virgins that those who were prepared (had oil in their lamps, i.e., were sanctified or baptized in the Spirit) would be raptured //
Charles Page
Dr King couldn’t make up his mind if it was sanctification or baptism with the Holy Spirit that make us rapture ready.
Varnel Watson
neither did early Pentecostals – which one would you say it is
Charles Page
personally, I don’t subscribe to a “rapture” but if I were pre-trib rapture I would say being regenerated is the only qualification. Christ is coming back for his own.
Varnel Watson
could one BE taken in the “rapture” except IF subscribe to a “rapture” ?
Paul King
Actually, there is not a one-size fits all in Pentecostalism. Yes, perhaps through much of the 20th century pre-trib pre-mil was the most prominent, but not totally. Many of the earliest Pentecostals in the first decade of Pentecostalism were partial rapturists, believing on the basis of the parable of the 10 virgins that those who were prepared (had oil in their lamps, i.e., were sanctified or baptized in the Spirit) would be raptured earlier and those who were not prepared would be raptured later.
Max Gross
Excuse me, why haven’t you all floated off to Heaven. The Rapture was on April 23!!!