The pre-Adamic race GAP theory explains it all

Posted by Библията Тв in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

The pre-Adamic race GAP theory explains it all:

  1.  Where lost souls come from?
  2. Where the demons come from?
  3. When did Satan fall from the Heavens?
  4. How did 1/3 of the angels fall with Satan?
  5. Why do the Bible tells us TWO creation stories?
  6. Why was earth created staples and void (this brings to perspective flat earth vs a globe as well)?
  7. Why do the Bible tells us TWO flood narratives?
  8. Age of earth?
  9. The disappearing of the dinosaurs and why where no dinosaurs in Noah’s ark?
  10. The whole doctrine of Original sin and its coming into man’s flesh?

Just try to explain the above without pre-Adamic race GAP theory and you will see for yourself…

 

John Bartlett [11/29/2015 9:20 AM]
What Bible is the snapshot from?

John Kissinger [11/29/2015 9:21 AM]
This is a question for one Rick Wadholm Jr but sure looks like earldy edition Geneva print http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Bible/Bibles/Historic.htm

Henry Volk [11/29/2015 9:27 AM]
I used to be a gap-theorist, in fact that’s how I was raised. I think it’s a far superior position than creationism. However, I think it has flaws hermeneutically. The more I read Aquinas and Augustine, the more convinced I am that an evolutionary framework can be reconciled with a Christian worldview.

John Kissinger [11/29/2015 9:29 AM]
Gap creationism was popularized by Thomas Chalmers, a professor at the University of Edinburgh, founder of the Free Church of Scotland, and author of one of the Bridgewater Treatises, who attributed it to 17th century Dutch Arminian theologian Simon Episcopius. Other early proponents included Oxford University geology professor and fellow Bridgewater author William Buckland, Sharon Turner and Edward Hitchcock. It gained widespread attention when a “second creative act” was discussed prominently in the reference notes for Genesis in the influential 1917 Scofield Reference Bible. In 1954, a few years before the re-emergence of Young Earth Flood geology eclipsed Gap creationism, influential evangelical theologian Bernard Ramm wrote in The Christian View of Science and Scripture

Henry Volk [11/29/2015 9:31 AM]
John Kissinger have you ever checked out the Recovery Version of the Bible?

John Kissinger [11/29/2015 9:43 AM]
yeah, someone mentioned it earlier last year and I was supposed to write a review – what about it? anything more specific?

Henry Volk [11/29/2015 1:39 PM]
As far as I am aware, it is the only translation that translates Gen 1:2 as, “And the earth became void and waste.”

John Ruffle [11/29/2015 3:18 PM]
Gap theory conveniently explains away faith in God’s Word, enabling folks to stay in the comfort zone of unbelief. Biblically, it’s nonesense. Take another look at young earth, Pangaea and plate tectonics theories instead.

Ricky Grimsley [11/29/2015 3:51 PM]
Wow john ruffle. Thats a pretty closed minded statement.

John Kissinger [11/29/2015 3:52 PM]
Henry Volk it’s certainly NOT the only one; Young’s literal even goes further explaining the literal Hebrew tense of “the earth hath existed waste and void” – continually in the long and progressive perfected past

Ricky Grimsley [11/29/2015 4:11 PM]
@ John Ruffle how can u you say it takes less faith to believe the gap theory? Really pick on Henry Volk. He believes evolution.

John Ruffle [11/29/2015 4:20 PM]
What’s Biblios got to say in reply?

John Kissinger [11/29/2015 4:24 PM]
I believe I can fly 🙂

Ricky Grimsley [11/29/2015 4:33 PM]
I wonder does any one in hear believe in a flat earth?

John Kissinger [11/29/2015 4:34 PM]
so I touched on the issue atop b/c it is somewhat relevant to early holiness movement – at least it made sense to them in Zion City

Allen Benton [11/29/2015 4:49 PM]
Why explain about what’s not “written”? There’s plenty written a bout to teach!

John Kissinger [11/29/2015 5:10 PM]
the phrase “without form” kind of is in v 2 so we try to explain. It can be seen from these passages what the condition of the earth was in Gen. 1:2. God did not originally create the earth in such a waste and ruined condition. It is stated in Isa. 45:18 that He did not create the earth tohuw (vain, waste, desolate), yet in v 2 it is this way. Therefore, we conclude that the earth was made perfect, dry land, beautiful, and inhabited originally, and that later it became empty, waste, and a ruin because of sin (Dt. 32:4; Eccl. 3:11)

Bob Collins [11/29/2015 6:49 PM]
You know I love discussing many things but there is so much I don’t know and the older I get, I have discovered the less I know, but I know John 3:16,17; Rom. 10:9,10-13 and the rest of it I will find out when Jesus fulfills John 14…I live on this side of the cross, whatever happened on the other side, even though awesome and challenging, has nothing to do with what was accomplished at Calvary and His resurrection. Be blessed.

John Kissinger [11/30/2015 9:34 AM]
WHEN ELSE did Satan+ 1/3 of the angels fall from the Heavens? Timothy Carter

152 Comments

  • Reply April 22, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    Tom Steele Seems appropriate to bring the topic on EarthDay Ricky

  • Reply April 22, 2016

    Tom Steele

    So is the article I just posted to the group earlier

  • Reply April 22, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    Tried to read it but a bit over my head. Not a chemist 🙂

  • Reply April 22, 2016

    Tom Steele

    You should keep going, I break down that part in more simple terms and then once you get past it, the rest should all start to click.

  • Reply April 22, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    I am like John Ruffle Just give me the short version…

    • Reply April 23, 2016

      John Ruffle

      Couldn’t see any article at all! PT has a great website set-up … except it doesn’t work!

  • Reply April 22, 2016

    Tom Steele

    Kinda like the short version of the Bible?

  • Reply April 23, 2016

    John Ruffle

    It IS the short version!

  • Reply April 23, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    Short version: It’s a BIG gap 🙂

  • Reply April 23, 2016

    Tom Steele

    Unless there is no gap… thus the need to use the word THEORY in the Gap Theory.

  • Reply April 23, 2016

    Tom Steele

    The short version is those who want to throw out the Old Testament as obsolete, and just have a New Testament.

    • Reply April 25, 2016

      John Ruffle

      Or for those of us whose internet link won’t show the full version more like.

  • Reply April 23, 2016

    Laurie Anne Corson

    Lost me at Scofield bible.

  • Reply April 24, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    Adam and eve was 6000 years ago but “in the beginning” was way longer ago.

    • Reply April 25, 2016

      John Ruffle

      Rick, that’s a plain crazy comment, sorry. You make a nice, clear statement as if it’s Biblical fact. But … it isn’t. It’s a possible interpretation. I hope this is just forum shorthand you’re using, because God help your congregation if you preach and teach that way.

      No offence intended, but I am serious (it was 4:00am last time I checked – not the hour for high diplomacy!)

    • Reply April 25, 2016

      Ricky Grimsley

      Lol thats definitely a shorthand statement. We all know the arguments for and against young earth. The bible is pretty clear that adam and eve was about 6000 years ago. The age of the earth might be debatable but a 6000 year old just doesnt hold up.

    • Reply April 25, 2016

      John Ruffle

      I beg to disagree. A young earth is a defensible theory both biblically and scientifically. What it DOES do is seriously challenge our worldview presuppositions and preconceptions. So that alone makes it difficult to debate the issue from a level, emotionally-clear playing field.

      I’m not sure we’ll know definitively this side of heaven, but I favour a young earth scenario personally. Geologically it can work.

      I favour the Noahdic cataclysmic scenario, because the exegesis for the gap theory is tenuous to say the least.

      While it’s right to consider a gap theory, if we were building a salvation / central doctrine around such tenuous textual evidence that would be highly dependant upon interpretation, I suspect we’d all throw it out as heretical without a second thought.

  • Reply April 24, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    If you got lost at Scofield you will get found at Dake (It’s an old Pentecostal saying) http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/creation-or-catabolism-from-the-foundation-of-the-worlds/

  • Reply April 24, 2016

    Colby Benefield

    Dake is no good either

  • Reply April 24, 2016

    Colby Benefield

    It’s a very possiable theory but the only problem I have with it is Matt 19:4

  • Reply April 25, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    I wish dake was still alive to crush youngearthers in debates.

    • Reply April 25, 2016

      John Ruffle

      I’ve gotta Dakes “super highway to heaven” as well. Just make sure you drive in the two centre lanes most the time. Some broken down trucks can suddenly appear out of nowhere on the hard shoulders.

    • Reply April 25, 2016

      Ricky Grimsley

      John Ruffle lol that pretty witty.

  • Reply April 25, 2016

    Alan N Carla Smith

    Ricky… easy now

  • Reply April 25, 2016

    Colby Benefield

    If I’m correct doesn’t dake have a son who is a pastor, an Indian guy. Cause that man is a false prophet. And he supports the dake bible. And I still believe a race before us could have existed. Only on a flat earth though. Not possible with a globe.my only problem is the verse in Matt

  • Reply April 25, 2016

    Joshua Remington

    I always wondered about those dino-saucers

  • Reply April 25, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    Lol

  • Reply April 25, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    Lets just disregard all of science because some people cant think past what mama said.

  • Reply April 25, 2016

    Tom Steele

    Why not, ya’ll disregard science on all of my posts.

  • Reply April 25, 2016

    Colby Benefield

    I’m not disregarding anything. I’m just still waiting on someone to tell me how earth can be over 6000 years old and that there was a pre human race if Matt says man was made at the beginning. I can see It being so other than that one verse. Cause in gen 1 in the beginning god created the heaven and the earth and the earth was shapeless and void can also be translated from its original hebrew the first fruits god cut down and the earth “became” shapeless and void. Also he told Adam and Eve to repopulate the earth. Not to populate it. Isaiah also seems to indicate that earth was not first created shapeless and void and that Eden was symbolic. So I can see it being a possibility. Besides mat 19:4

  • Reply April 25, 2016

    John Ruffle

    Ricky Grimsley, as far as I can see on this thread, you have failed to post a single substantiated comment on this thread so far. That worries me when a supposed theologian or church leader is so convinced they are right that they don’t engage in a reasoned or rational dialogue. Me, I’m just stepping in as the the ref right here. End of story.

  • Reply April 25, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    Well my position is the gap theory. Its pretty well known to all those on here. I could cut and paste 4 pages of copy but I assume you already know the “gap theory and just dont agree.

  • Reply April 25, 2016

    Colby Benefield

    Ricky Grimsley I’m confused are you saying there was a pre adamite race. If so could you address the issue with Matt 19:4

  • Reply April 25, 2016

    Colby Benefield

    Matt 19 have you not read that he which made them AT THE BEGINNING made them male and female and said for this cause shall a man leave his father and his mother and Cleave to his wife and the two shall be one

  • Reply April 26, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    At the beginning of our race. Adam and eve. In the beginning God only created adam with eve still inside him. God decided later to separate adam and eve so that man would not be alone. Genesis 2:18,22 KJVS
    [18] And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. [22] And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

  • Reply April 26, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    Yap, Dake be dancing (holy) circles around these young preachers quoting Bible verses to prove his theory(s). Young preachers that are yet to read the Bible once, if I may add 🙂 http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/dealing-with-dakes-teachings/

  • Reply April 26, 2016

    Laurie Anne Corson

    How can you presume that he has not yet read the Bible all the way through? I can’t tell what you were implying. I hope you had good intentions by that statement.

  • Reply July 1, 2016

    Tim Renneberg

    For the original post… spell check is your friend… I can tackle the “formless and void” verse. In the Hebrew it’s a clever use of onomatopoeia emphasizing how there was nothing in the beginning and how out of nothing elohim creates. The following verses show God forming the formless (day 1-3) and filling the void (day 4-6).

    I really won’t lose any sleep over if someone wants to believe in the gap theory. It’s a stellar example of iscogesis.

    To throw a monkey wrench into the gap theory, it is very likely that verse 1 of Genesis orginally served as a title, essentially explaining what was about to take place in the following verses.

    • Reply July 1, 2016

      Rico Hero

      Iscogesis?

    • Reply July 1, 2016

      Tim Renneberg

      Making a text say what you want it to say. Fitting a text into one’s pre-conceived beliefs/interpretations

    • Reply July 1, 2016

      Rico Hero

      Why do YEC do that:)

    • Reply July 1, 2016

      Tim Renneberg

      I don’t

    • Reply July 1, 2016

      Rico Hero

      My plane departs soon, but how do you explain the water in existence before day 1. (day 1 starts with light).

  • Reply July 1, 2016

    Brian Crisp

    Good topic. Very interesting

  • Reply July 1, 2016

    John Conger

    Trouble maker

  • Reply July 1, 2016

    Mary Ellen Nissley

    just can’t let it rest in peace, can you?

  • I believe in the gap FACT. It is the only one that makes sense. Too much verbal gymnastics explaining young earth in light of the evidence against it and the so-called “theistic evolution” has no biblical support.

  • Reply July 1, 2016

    Tim Renneberg

    Who said anything about a young earth?

  • Reply July 1, 2016

    Jon Ray

    When did Satan and his angels fall from the Heavens?

  • Reply July 1, 2016

    Charles Page

    Gap theory supports evolution

  • Reply June 3, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    These 2 settle it for me:
    #8 The disappearing of the dinosaurs and why where no dinosaurs in Noah’s ark?
    #9 The whole doctrine of Original sin and its coming into man’s flesh?

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Troy Day, all Genesis 7 tells us is that God brought two of every kind of animal to Noah. It doesn’t say which kind particularly except that they were to be land and winged organisms that breathed oxygen. Land-based dinosaurs certainly qualify as land-based oxygen-breathing organisms! Furthermore, the Bible mentions dinosaurs in Job 40 and 41 [https://creation.com/behemoth-and-leviathan], which was a time shortly after the one and only worldwide (2 Peter 3) Flood.

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Peter Fiske perhaps you should take a trip to KY to see the life size Noahs ark replica and explain HOW exactly 2 of each dinosaurs fit in it Good luck!

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Having trouble answering anything I’ve posted Troy Day.?

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Not at all As a matter of fact I’ve answered everything you;ve posted even BEFORE you posted it simply because all you post is blah blah that we’ve heard before. Where again in Gen 1 you read about angels? exact verse please

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Troy Day, actually putting two of each kind of land animal, including dinosaurs isn’t a problem when one considers the fact that God could have sent juvenile members of the larger dinosaur kind, like the sauropods. Dinosaurs could have been represented as young. According to the most recent models of dinosaur maturation, the largest sauropod dinosaurs were no more than several hundred kilograms in weight by the time they were just over a year old. (T.M. Lehman and H.N. Woodward, “Modeling Growth Rates for Sauropod Dinosaurs,” Paleobiology 34 no. 4 (2008): 264–281.[https://bit.ly/2xP51p8])

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      You haven’t answered anything Troy Day, and when debunked in debate, you get aggravated. Stick to the context of the debate without getting emotionally attached. It isn’t easy, as I get angry every time self-professed Christians ignorantly try to peddle false doctrine (like the Gap myth) in the name of scripture while just hurting the cause of Christ in the process.

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Troy, I’ve been to the Creation Museum but not yet the Ark Encounter. I plan on going later this summer, since I’m a lifetime member of the Creation Museum, I get in free both attractions!??

  • To me, dinosaur age might be during Eden era. We don’t exactly know that how long Adam was actually with God in the Garden. Since it’s part of eternity (before the fall), it might be millions of years or at least hundreds of years. Many things could happen in the outside-world (outside of the Garden) during those hundreds of years.

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Thangsan Hisfootstep, Adam was 130 when Seth was born (Genesis 5:2-3) and Seth what’s a replacement for Abel whom Cain murdered (Genesis 4:25). Also, since Lucifer fell in the Garden of Eden Ezekiel 28:13-15, obviously happened before the fall of Adam (man) in Genesis three, it’s safe to say that we can extrapolate the time Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden to be approximately 100 years.

    • Peter Fiske Thanks for comment. If to express more what in my mind, Adam’s year of age counted in Genesis 5 might probably be the days/years after the fall. In another words, we can say that this is the total of long years that Adam waited for the wages of his sin (death). In fact, it is little bit different from the way we counted days and years as we used to counted days/years after birth. However, to be strict to biblical standpoint, days/years counted after the great fall are actually the total of days/years that we waited for our own physical death. Accordingly, in the Garden when no one knows sin yet, just is eternity (part of eternity) that no prospective death so that no need to count how many days or years one already lived up. Taken for granted, therefore, Genesis 1 – 2 knows only 7 days of creation that still might be different from the way we say day now.

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Thangsan Hisfootstep, the Hebrew word for “day” in Genesis 1 is “yom”. https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3117&t=ESV

      “Yom” can mean a literal 24-hour day, an indefinite period of time, a season, or a particular holiday event, like Passover. The context of Genesis 1 in reference to time is clearly that of 6 literal 24 hour days comma since each reference to day is bounded by an evening and a morning.
      https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3117&t=ESV

  • Reply June 3, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Thats a good one Thangsan I;ve told Ricky Grimsley some adventist believe Adam genetically modified the dinos so he can harvest them for food – large masses of prime angus steak from Eden

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      First off, biblical creation which teaches that God created the Earth less than 10,000 years ago, and that there is no heretical Gap in Genesis 1, isn’t *Adventist doctrine*, but sound and truthful biblical doctrine.

      Secondly, one has to play a contorted game of mental gymnastics with Genesis 1-11 in order to try to fit an invisible gap of millions of supposed years into the canon of scripture.

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Peter Fiske Yes the Yappers have proven that there is no gap.

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Gary Micheal Epping, don’t be as butt-ignorant as Troy Day, and other gappist biblical neophytes.

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Peter Fiske Yappers yap, yap, yap!

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Gary Micheal Epping, just when I thought we were able to develop a mutually respectful dialogue when we were discussing the Brownsville Revival, you descend once more into
      abyss of absurdity and ensuing ridiculous dialogue when trying to defend Satanic false teacher, Finis Dake and his ridiculous false teachings.

  • Reply June 3, 2018

    Louise Cummings

    I don’t find how they find ions of years between these two verses. It just talks about God moving upon the face of the deep.

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Louise Cummings, you’re absolutely right! A plane and literal reading in the original context of Genesis 1 shows absolutely no Gap. The Gap myth was invented by Thomas Chalmers in 1814 in order to make Genesis fit with the emerging evolutionary based ideas of supposed deep time of millions of years propagated by the likes of James Hutton, Charles Cuvier, and others like them.

  • Reply June 4, 2018

    Scotty Searan

    All I know is I am going to take the Bible for what it says.
    Yes I know what Strongs concordance says about the word replenish
    Yes I know it can mean to fill up.
    But I am just fool enough to believe that the Holy Ghost knew

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Scotty Searan , There was no *previous Earth* before Genesis 1, and the 400 year old archaic English KJV word replenish in Genesis 1:28 of the Dominion mandate, actually means to “be full” for “to fill”, for the first time!
      https://creation.com/genesis-1-28-replenish-or-fill

      The Hebrew word in Genesis 1:28 here is “male’ — Strong’s H4390”.
      https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H4390&t=ESV

      There isn’t the first definition that means to *refill* or *fill again*, which is what the likes of Dake have insinuated in their commentary notes in order to push the heretical Gap Theory.

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      booo Peter Fiske Oxford Old English Dictionary

      replenish
      VERB

      Fill (something) up again.
      ‘he replenished Justin’s glass with mineral water’

      Restore (a stock or supply) to a former level or condition.
      ‘all creatures need sleep to replenish their energies’

      Origin
      Late Middle English (in the sense ‘supply abundantly’): from Old French repleniss-, lengthened stem of replenir, from re- ‘again’ (also expressing intensive force) + plenir ‘fill’ (from Latin plenus ‘full’).

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Troy Day, simply posting something you claim to be in the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) without a corroborate your assertion is poor scholarship to say the least.

      You claim to be a Bible scholar yet you don’t go back to an objective scholarly source (like I did look up the original Hebrew word “male’ “… [https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H4390&t=ESV]) that lists the original Hebrew in Genesis 1:28.

      God gave Moses Book of Genesis in Hebrew, not 400 year old KJV English!

      We have seen that Latin re- originally meant ‘again’ but then developed new overtones. Before the Bible was translated, repleo, the word that gave us ‘replenish’, normally meant just ‘fill’. Here are some examples from Latin authors:

      • fill up the number of (Livy)

      • what they lacked in votes they made up for in noise (Ovid)

      • he filled the battlefield with men (before the battle) (Livy)

      • fill veins with blood (Livy)

      • filled the crowd with his speech (Virgil)

      • civil law full of right knowledge (Cicero)

      There’s another English word that comes from repleo. It is ‘replete’. We can say ‘I am replete’, using a politer word than ‘full up’ with food. It doesn’t mean ‘full again’.

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Peter Fiske take it with OED https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/replenish You copy pasting from answersingenesis.org makes you very scholarly. I give you an F for plagiarizing as I do to all my plagiarizing students You also get a double F for failing to answer all 10 arguments in the previous discussion on the topic. To be honest with you, you are not doing so well in the GAP class

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Troy Day, you’re not my teacher, plagiarism is a serious charge, and I always link postings. Nevertheless you haven’t answered my point which is that God wouldn’t …
      1. have initially given scripture in KJV English.

      2. incorrectly defined the context of the Dominion mandate in Genesis 1:28 just to satisfy scripturally naive gappists trying to fit supposed millions of years into scripture just to satisfy erroneous evolutionary thinking when it doesn’t belong there.

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Correct: In your post here
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/pentecostaltheologygroup/permalink/1726192230769118/?comment_id=1726352907419717&reply_comment_id=1727364187318589&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R1%22%7D

      you copy pasted this

      • fill up the number of (Livy)

      • what they lacked in votes they made up for in noise (Ovid)

      • he filled the battlefield with men (before the battle) (Livy)

      • fill veins with blood (Livy)

      • filled the crowd with his speech (Virgil)

      from here https://answersingenesis.org/bible-questions/what-does-replenish-the-earth-mean/

      and you cited NO source making it your own work
      Marked: (F)

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Troy Day, the OED of 1611 defined replenish as “to be full.” Wow correct, and the reason that the KJV translators included the word in Genesis 1:28, it’s not the source by which we must interpret the meaning of the word.

      ———————————————
      The word וּמִלְא֥וּ(ū·mil·’ū) is translated in the Brown-Driver-Briggs as:

      verb be full, fill (Late Hebrew id. (Piʿel transitive); Zinjirli מלא (Piʿel transitive) DHM Sendsch. 60; Assyrian malû (transitive and intransitive) DlHWB 409; Arabic (transitive) , (intransitive); Ethiopic (transitive and intransitive); Aramaic (transitive), מְלָא (intransitive and transitive), Palmyrene proper name מלא = plenitude, VogPalm 7, 2 and others; Sabean מלא Os14 Levy-OsZMG xix.1863, 211 f. DHMZMG xxix.1875, 595); —

      Interestingly, the root word “מִלְא֤”(male or mala) means ” be full, usually with accusative material”. The general sense is that man was given “dominion” (וּרְד֞וּ-ū·rə·ḏū) to “bring order” to the earth God had created which was “full” and needs harvesting. Apart from man’s dominion, the earth would ‘over-run’ and cease from being productive. It ‘replenishes’ itself because of man’s exercising dominion over it

      https://archive.org/stream/hebrewenglishlex00browuoft#page/569/mode/1up

      _____________________________

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Your problem is using a Dake Bible, where Dake contorts and twists biblical theology in his false teachings, located in his commentaries. The Holy Spirit didn’t tell you that replenish meant to refill and that there was a gap in Genesis 1. That is nonsense! Miss Christians we had better stop following too vain human traditions, and mindless and subjective feelings just because our so-called *heart * tells us to. Genesis 1 teaches that the Earth is Thousands not billions of years old. That’s not a problem if one has a foundational mindset that we’re going to take God at his Word, and not to try to twist the word of God to fit the fallible and ultimately false evolutionary based ideas of humans. When evolutionists see that we compromise Genesis to try to fit millions of years into the scripture, they literally laugh and are unfoundedly reassured of there materialistic mythology. Scientific evidence, and scripture itself don’t support a gap!

  • Reply June 4, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    what a beautiful testimony Scotty Searan

  • Reply June 4, 2018

    Tim Law

    If you believe in a pre-adamic race then who sinned before Adam?

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Lucifer of course Thats true even if you dont believe pre-adamic. Just simple Biblical truth

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Except Troy Day that’s Lucifer send while he was in the Garden of Eden, that would be AFTER Creation Week in Genesis 1:1-31, as Ezekiel 28:13-15 tells us.

      “Let God be true, and every man (Finis Dake, Hugh Ross, Thomas Chalmers, Troy Day, etc) a liar.” – Romans 3:4

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Except what?

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Troy Day, Lucifer sinned AFTER Creation Week in Genesis 1. (Ezekiel 28:13-15).

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Ezekiel 28 does NOT prove your statement. Your are citing the Bible in a false and misleading way to mean what you want it to mean

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Troy Day, Ezekiel 28:13-15 tells us that Lucifer was a good angel in the Garden of Eden before sin was found in him. If you try to take this clear, and cut and dried scripture and contorted to fit your false teaching, namely the Gap myth, you’re guilty of adding to the canon of the Word of God, expressly forbidden in Deuteronomy 4:2 and Revelation 22:18-19.

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Peter Fiske Yeh, yeh! The creation of the angels and their fall all crammed up tightly into the garden of Eden, while they were were playing with the dinosaurs. Hogwash! You need to stop iisttening to Ken Ham.

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Gary Micheal Epping, according to Job 38, God created the Angels at the very beginning of Creation Week faithfully recorded in Genesis 1 since that’s the only time God created.

      ((all crammed up tightly into the Garden of Eden))
      First off, no one knows the size of the Garden of Eden, however there’s good reason to think that it covered a good part of t he pre-Flood Earth which lasted from Creation Week (Genesis 1:1-31) for 1,656 years till the coming of the Flood (Genesis 5:3,5, 6,9, 12,15,18,21, 25, 28; 7:6 [https://answersingenesis.org/bible-timeline/timeline-for-the-flood/]).

      ((Hogwash))
      We’re not bringing up Dake and is commentaries. ?

      ((You need to stop iistening to Ken Ham))
      I see you like to co-opt my talking points as I said the same thing to you listening to that crackpot Finis Dake. Nevertheless, unlike Dake, Ken Ham has a real science degree (BSc in biology education, DipEd [Aussie equivalent of a Masters]).
      https://answersingenesis.org/bios/ken-ham/

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Fiske, you seem not to understand simple tenses in the Bible language

      According to Job 38, 2 when God created earth the Angels were already there and watched Him do it

      Now because you claim this extra terrestrial Bible knowledge please give us the EXACT verse from Genesis 1 that describe the creation of the angels. I mean like chapter verse and Blue Bible reference please – waiting….

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Troy Day, you seem to like to use my last name in a pejorative way, presumably whenever you’ve been debunked by me. As I said, it’s not necessary to become so emotionally entangled and defending your point of view, or me defending mine to where it descends from an academic pursuit to and angry emotionally based exchange.

  • Reply June 4, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Peter Fiske seems Gary Micheal is pretty right on this:
    If you are not a gapper you are a yapper
    If you are a yapper you cant prove anything
    Yappers just yap

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Troy Day, *yapper* is an ad hominem fallacy engaged in buy those ignoramuses who can’t interpret evidence correctly.

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Troy Day, I’ve proved from scripture and science both that there is no Gap in Genesis 1. You’re guilty of the bait and switch fallacy.

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      You’ve done no such thing. What you have actually done is repeating that you have proven it, but in all actuality you’ve proven nothing so far. As a matter of fact you abandoned our last discussion and chose to be quite during 8 out of 10 evidences presented. Gary Micheal Epping witnessed the whole thing lasting over a week and can confirm

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Yes I have Troy Day, providing biblical and if necessary scientific references that blow Dake and his Satanic commentaries out of the water. There are no evidence is presented for a gap that can’t be effectively demolished by biblical truth. Secondly, show me a statistical analysis that I’ve not refuted 80% of your supposed evidences.

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Peter Fiske Yap, yap.

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Fiske from the 10 points made here you refused to address 8 (thats 80%) and you are yet to address the other 2 (20%) In my book that’s make 100% that you have failed to refute which makes my thesis 100% right. That simple http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/10-things-in-the-bible-that-cannot-be-explained-without-the-pre-adamic-race-gap-theory/

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Troy Day He doesn’t like to answer questions. but drop a ton of span instead.

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Day , what book? I read authors that have something to offer and contribute, I have failed to see you meet that standard.

    • Reply June 4, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Gary Micheal Epping, I’ve been posting biblical doctrine that I’ve quoted, and that I’ve quoted from other sources that are objective and scholarly, both biblical and scientific, that have not agreed with your blind faith in this heresy originated in the mind of Satan, and peddled by the likes of false teachers like Finis Dake, namely the Gap myth.

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      I am not debating you unless you only answer with your own posts and and no SPAM attachments. Otherwise, find someone else.

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Out of 10 arguments in the last discussion Fiske answered exactly 0 (zero) Why should we spent another week waiting on his non answering while he repeats how well he defeated arguments he never addressed? https://www.facebook.com/groups/pentecostaltheologygroup/permalink/1713510052037336/

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Gary Micheal Epping, you’re becoming an annoying child again. Why don’t you just try to answer the questions instead of tap dancing around then and then emotionally attacking when you can’t answer.

  • Reply June 5, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Peter Fiske you’ve opened so much extraterrestrial knowledge I feel you belong to area 51. If not you definitely belong somewhere else

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      *Extraterrestrial* knowledge? No, I’m trying to stay on topic, however I won’t allow by compromise, the true and pure context of God’s Word in Genesis 1 to be maligned and contorted by those of you who wish to compromise Genesis in order to satisfy a false teacher’s (Finis Dake’s) erroneous interpretation of Genesis.

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Troy Day And he still hasn’t answered: #8 The disappearing of the dinosaurs and why where no dinosaurs in Noah’s ark?
      #9 The whole doctrine of Original sin and its coming into man’s flesh?

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Naah – he aint answered 1 to 10 cause he cant

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Troy Day Peter has claimed that dinosaurs were created in Eden. I wonder why God would make Tyrannosaurus rex the super predator with teeth that were made to only eat flesh, when there was no killing of other animals until after Eve sinned. Also, if Tyrannosaurus rex were put on the Ark, it would seem that no other animals would be left after a few days when he got hungry. There is no other acceptable answer except Rex lived in an earlier time.

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Troy Day Over on (Debate.org) they polled, “Do Christians really think Noah took dinosaurs on the ark?” Results 35% yes, and 65% no.

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Troy Day “We’re taking the dinosaurs back,” said Ken Ham, president of Answers in Genesis, a Christian group building a $25-million creationist museum in Petersburg, Ky., that’s already overrun with model sauropods and velociraptors.

      However, the nation’s top paleontologists find the YEC theory preposterous and say children are being misled by dinosaur exhibits that take the Jurassic out of “Jurassic Park.”

      “Dinosaurs lived in the Garden of Eden, and Noah’s Ark? Give me a break,” said Kevin Padian, curator at the University of California Museum of Paleontology in Berkeley and president of National Center for Science Education, an Oakland group. “For YEC proponents, ‘The Flintstones’ is a documentary.”

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Troy Day
      The Hudson Bay Geologist has a few words for YECs.

      Young-Earth creationists (YECs) believe that God created the world around 6,000 years ago exactly as described in the book of Genesis. They are forced to conclude that dinosaurs were roaming around with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

      They are also forced to conclude, since the world was perfect with no pain, suffering, and death before the Fall, that dinosaurs like T. rex ate coconuts or something with those long, serrated teeth. They also debate whether or not Noah took dinosaurs on the ark.

      By the way, I saw Ken Ham speak once, a long time ago now, when I was a graduate student at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Everything he said about geology in that talk (which was given in a church) was a complete lie (I’m not going to be charitable and assume he was just ignorant, because he’s not a dumb man – he’s a lying sack of ??? who lives better than I off the donations of others and outright slanders science and scientists).

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Gary Micheal Epping, ((I wonder why God would make Tyrannosaurus Rex the super predator with teeth that were made to only eat flesh when there was no killing of other animals)) According to scripture, all animals were initially vegetarian ( Genesis 1:29 [http://biblehub.com/genesis/1-29.htm]). It wasn’t until after Noah’s flood that man and presumably the animals) given permission to eat meat (Genesis 9:3 [http://biblehub.com/genesis/9-3.htm]). That doesn’t mean that some animals weren’t carnivorous before Noah’s (ONLY) worldwide Flood, and indeed may have become carnivorous after the Fall in Genesis 3.
      https://creation.com/animal-carnivory-began-at-fall

      Today an apex predator known as the grizzly bear, an organism that eats animals as large as elk [https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x35jwi4], is also known to eat berries, grass, flowers, and leaves.
      http://www.mountainnature.com/wildlife/bears/beardiet.htm

      Also, due to the fragile nature of the T-Rex forearm, and structure of the hind leg [https://phys.org/news/2017-07-tyrannosaurus-rex-couldnt.html] there’s now anatomical evidence that T-Rex was primarily an opportunistic feeder, more like a scavenger, not dissimilar from vultures and hyenas. https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg14819982.600-the-bigger-they-come-the-harder-they-fall/

      Also, there’s a theropod ( normally the classification for meat eating dinosaurs like velociraptor, T-Rex and Spinosaurus) fossil that evolutionists mistakenly think was a transitional, but has characteristics of both a carnivore and a herbivore, indicating that it may have been omnivorous, or even primarily herbivorous.
      “After studying 90 theropod species, their conclusion is that vegetarianism was widespread”. https://gizmodo.com/5715569/most-carnivorous-dinosaurs-were-actually-vegetarian

      https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/study-identifies-dinosaur-missing-link

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Gary Micheal Epping, as much as I thought we had a spiritual kinship in terms of our shared experience and belief in the genuineness of the Brownsville Revival, I see that you have gone off the proverbial biblical reservation when it comes to trying to defend Dake and the false and heretical doctrine of the Gap Myth.

      ((…the nation’s top paleontologist find the YEC theory preposterous))
      Spoken like a true evolutionist! So you’re scrapping biblical Authority for the fallible evolutionary based, and erroneous ideas of fallen secular humanists who peddle Darwin’s 19th century creation myth as if it were fact. It is a fact that most paleontologists are flaming evolutionists. The majority of geoscience programs nationwide, which includes paleontology, are run by evolutionists who have been shown statistically to be overwhelmingly atheist, hostile to biblical Christianity, and vote left of center and are naively affiliated with the Democrat party. With that kind of a cracked philosophical Foundation, for a Christian to lean on these types of people for their information and trying to prove Genesis compromise, is pathetic to say the least. It’s as if you were a modern day Benedict Arnold who sold out his country just so he could curry favor with the British crown.

      ((Kevin Padian… president of the National Center for Science Education))
      You just don’t learn Gary! The NCSE is a toxic, anti-Christian, secularist organization that has nothing to do with science, and nothing to do with education! They exist solely to peddle Darwinian mythology, including the myth of the time millions of years, as science to impressionable children. In short, self-professed atheist Kevin Padian is a modern-day Joseph Goebbels, and his organization, the NCSE is a modern-day Nazi-like propaganda organization.

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Peter Fiske My comments are not to you, so butt off.

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Troy Day YEC science is just really goofy and looney tunes. No other way to explain it for anyone that has a rational mind and can add 2+2.

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Troy Day I guess extraterrestrial knowledge is the crystal ball that makes a person’s statements always right regardless of the arguments of other with a different position?

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Gary Micheal Epping, this is an open forum, and I will engage in conversation as I see fit, if you don’t like it, tough titty.

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Gary Micheal Epping, I went over to debate.org, and I noticed that evolutionists have been posting there for quite a while in several related categories. Thus your poll on this issue isn’t an accurate barometer of how Christians feel about whether or not dinosaurs were on Noah’s Ark.

  • Reply June 5, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    bro Scotty you dont have problem using Dake Bible. It is proper theology to consult multiple authors and sort them out. If you like Dake, Scofield Thompson it is only right to consult them in aiding your understanding of the BIBLE

    It is wrong however to claim extraterrestrial knowledge like Peter Fiske on various subjects and claim only one person being right. Such is a type of personal revelation that borders a cult or close relations with Area51

    Rico Hero Gary Micheal Epping A.J. Bible even Ricky Grimsley in part have all told him it is OK to use Dake on the Gap theory but when Area51 says other wise some respond in their extraterrestrial Cant be help #MovingForward

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Scotty Searan

      Troy Day I do use Dakes & Thompsons and Life IN The Spirit. I believe they help you and are a tool to use.
      Peter Fiske I do know that one of the meanings in 1600 was fill up, But there was also a meaning for replenish also to make full again also.
      Now I have looked it up and have also seen it in the meanings you would send the group.
      But look at this
      KJV Translation Count — Total: 249x
      The KJV translates Strong’s H4390 in the following manner: fill (107x), full (48x), fulfil (28x), consecrate (15x), accomplish (7x), replenish (7x), wholly (6x), set (6x), expired (3x), fully (2x), gather (2x), overflow (2x), satisfy (2x), miscellaneous (14x).
      The scholars translated 249 time מָלָא

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Troy Day, it is proper practice to investigate Selah theological writings on biblical topics, but in the end of the day, there can only be one correct, and therefore objective interpretation of what scripture says on a matter. Biblical creation only thousands of years ago and the Gap Theory can’t both be true, just like creation and evolution both can’t be true. Therefore, wherever you come off saying *extraterrestrial knowledge*, is just another pathetic example of your ignorance sound biblical exegesis in terms of what Genesis says and intransigence to truth.

      This kind of arrogance within the church, and myopic allegiance to a particular (false) teacher, like Dake, and the false doctrines that he has pushed, is detrimental to Christian evangelism and the cause of Christ!

    • Reply June 5, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Tagging the fellow ignorant Troy Day isn’t going to help promote the Gap myth, which is nothing more then under unbiblical heresy

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Troy Day I was brought up to respect your elders, those who are highly educated and experienced in their fields of expertise, as well as those in authority in an organization or group that one belongs to. Some of the language and disrespect used on this site by certain members would never happen in most private organizations, as they would get the boot.

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Scotty Searan, ((I do not know that one of the meanings in 1600 was fill up))
      In modern funicular we know that fill and refill/ replenish means two different things. If that’s true today, it should have been the case 400 years ago when the 1611 KJV1 and in 1769 when the KJV2, the current Authorized Version [AV] that we today, were printed. That’s a basic given in linguistics, and Genesis Compromisers like Finis Dake (and Troy Day) can’t have it both ways, “replenish” in Genesis 1:28 doesn’t mean refill just because they want to cram a non-existent “gap” of supposed millions of years into Genesis 1.

      “The OED defines ‘replenish’ as having 10 meanings throughout its history:

      A. Replenished (adjective):fully stocked; provided, supplied;filled, pervaded; physically or materially filled; full, made full.B. To replenish: make full, fill, stock with, as in: ‘This man made the Newe Forest, and replenyshed it with wylde bestes’ (AD1494) ; inhabit, settle, occupy the whole of; fill with food, satiate; fill (space) with; fill (heart) with (a feeling);

      fill up again; fill up (a vacant office) (AD1632)”
      https://creation.com/what-does-replenish-the-earth-mean

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Scotty Searan

      Peter Fiske I am not taking my position because I read Dakes Bible or any Gap Theory. I had this postilion many years before I got a Dakes Bible. So how about quit throwing that at me. I have read no other persons writings except yours about the Gap Theory which I disagree with you on. What you are stating is theory. But what I am stating is in the Bible REPLENISH make full again.
      One more time.
      I BELIEVE THE HOLY GHOST HAD ENOUGH POWER TO ANOINT THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO WROTE THE ORIGINAL SCRIPTURES
      2 Peter 1:19-21
      19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

      20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

      21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

      I ALSO BELIEVE THE HOLY GHOST HAD ENOUGH POWER TO TRANSLATE THE SCRIPTURES IN 1600 FROM THE TEXT THEY HAD AVAILABLE.
      I ALSO BELIEVE THE HOLY GHOST KNEW HOW LONG THE KING JAMES VERSION TRANSLATIONS WOULD BE AROUND AND THE MILLIONS IF BILLIONS WHO WERE SAVED BY THE PREACHING FROM IT.
      I ALSO BELIEVED HE KNEW IT WOULD UNDER ATTACK IN THE LATTER DAYS.
      Go ahead and believe what you want. I am standing firm on my belief that the world had to be replenished when God spoke to Adam, just as well as it has been replenished when Noah came out of the Ark.
      I have a theory what might have happened on the previous earth, but it is a theory or opinion. I don’t say it actually happened. But I know by Gods word there was a previous population on this earth. I STAND FIRM ON THAT BELIEF.

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Scotty Searan, no one is born with the idea that there is a gap of millions of years in the Bible, also no one who reads Genesis 1-11 straightforward and literally can say there is such a thing as a *gap* embedded within it’s pages. I considered myself a relatively informed person when I was an older child and younger teenager, as I read a lot of books, and went on fossil hunting trips with my father and scouting. I never heard of the Gap Theory until I was 14 years old, when a well-meaning but hyper-ignorant Bible teacher caught the ruin reconstruction theory, right out of the Dake Bible, on some TV program I watched. It made a huge impact on me, as I immediately realized that it wasn’t attempt to make Genesis 1-11 fit with what I thought was science at the time, which was actually evolutionary thinking, including millions of years belief. That’s began a 15-year journey into drugs, partying, and an overall lifestyle that led me to the lowest point of my life. My whole justification for that time frame was that I was nothing but a highly evolved animal, that there was no such thing as the biblical God, and that I was the master of my own destiny, and therefore no one, not even what I at the time believed was an *imaginary* God, could tell me what to do!

      So you see, this issue is as personal for me as it is an academic pursuit. I don’t want to see another young person such as myself, and two more individuals that I’ve already previously mentioned on this site, slide into atheism just because we were exposed to Genesis compromise and realized that it was nothing more than diluting the authority of scripture to make it fit with evolutionary ideas falsely labeled as science.

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Scotty, your entire presentation is based on feelings and tradition, not on objective fact and Truth. The KJV only position is kind of separate from this debate, but from your own words, you share the view of KJV Onlyists who ignorantly believe that the Christian world was without a Bible for over 1600 years until the KJV was translated. How ridiculous that is! Modern language bibles are much better in terms of understanding deep biblical truths for the propagation of sound doctrine.

      As far as the word replenish goes, it seems that you won’t adhere to objective truth and evidence, but are more willing to follow feelings, which can be confused and mistaken, just in order to hold to your current position.

      I have to tell you, that my position over time has changed considerably, as I wasn’t afraid to allow the evidence to lead me wherever it shows too. This is why I’m no longer and agnostic evolutionist, why I don’t believe in millions of years anymore, and why I know that scripture doesn’t teach this, because I have made the effort to follow the evidence, both scientific and scripturally, to come to the position that I hold.

      And unless Christians are willing to make this journey too, we will continue to lose young people to the evolutionist dominated public education system.

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Gary Micheal Epping, your entire position is intellectually stunted. You’re taking a blasphemous position against the truth of God’s word , which must be every self professed Christians starting point , with the enemies of God, namely secular evolutionists, just so you can find their favor by being a Genesis compromiser. There is no truth to the idea that’s scripture teaches a gap of billions of supposed years. And there’s no scientific evidence, that is no objective methodological procedure, and I am talking about radiometric dating techniques, that objectively prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Earth is 4.6 billion years old. That were the case, Genesis would be untrue, and the entire foundation of scripture would be cracked

      “If the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do.” -Psalm 11:3

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Troy Day, you’re attempting to gloss over this issue as if you’ve already settled it, when the evidence from scripture and science both have shown your position to be not only foolish, but dangerous for the cause of Christ. Genesis compromise, of which the Gap theory is the most notorious component part, is completely incompatible with scripture, and forms an incoherent theology, that any thinking Christian person can see through, and if Didn’t Know Better, would have their faith damaged by.

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Peter Fiske No one is talking to you, so take a hike.

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Gary Micheal Epping, I’ve had plenty of interaction here, and you’re talking to me, so in other words you can’t defend anything that you’ve said, or refute anything that I’ve said. So getting nasty is your only alternative. A really pathetic testimony that John Kilpatrick would shake his head to!

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Gary Micheal Epping, your compromise with the likes of the NCSE and other evolutionists who hate biblical creationists is a pathetic testimony to say the least and doesn’t speak well of you personally.

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Troy Day It is hard to converse with you as a certain person can’t respect our conversation and keeps butting in.

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Peter Fiske

      Gary Micheal Epping, as long as you keep referring to me, I’m going to defend myself and stand for the truth of God’s word. Let God be true and every man a liar!

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Troy Day The extraterrestrial keeps thinking I am referring to him. He can’t resisting butting in.

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Troy Day It’s too bad we can not debate point 8 further, as you know who keeps diverting the issue elsewhere.

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Gary Yes – are we talking about the same person here who attacks DAKE ad hominem only to complain someone is doing ad hominem here? Typical Area51 conspiracy

  • Reply June 6, 2018

    Gary Micheal Epping

    Troy Day YEC science is just really goofy and looney tunes. No other way to explain it for anyone that has a rational mind and can add 2+2.

  • Reply June 6, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Gary Micheal Epping after all this extraterrestrial blab one can even forget what #8 was. Perhaps the blab purposes exactly that

    #8 The disappearing of the dinosaurs and why where no dinosaurs in Noah’s ark?

    One explanation extraterrestrial give is they were brought after on UFOs No other natural way of explaining how they would get in Noah’s ark

    http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/politics-other-controversies/128634d1397930405-creationist-carl-kerby-insists-dinosaurs-were-dino_ark.gif

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Gary Micheal Epping you may notice that Pete Fiske has responded to any and all sub comments in this thread except this one about item #8 One cant help but notice his complete capitulation on the Top 10 things that cannot be proved without the Biblical Gap Theory When #8 was brought up again this morning, Peter Fiske decided its time to go to bed … @ 6 AM 🙂

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Troy Day Creation science says the dinosaurs did not flourish and died off after the flood, probably from an ice age. However, the last ice age ended 10000 years ago, and the atmosphere after the flood enhanced life so that all species could be replenished across the earth. Conversely, one would expect the dinosaurs to flourish, and begin to feast on all kinds of flesh, resulting in some other species becoming extinct. But, that did not happen as the dinosaurs were actually part of an earlier era before Adam.

      Former creationist David MacMillan, in a Washington Post article, has said when asked, “Why is it called “Creation science”? MacMillan replies, because it allows them “to set themselves up as participants in an equal controversy, as if there are two equal sides to choose from.” To bolster that idea, he adds, “some creationists also try to mimic the appearance of hypotheses, research, and so forth.” “The whole focus of organized creationism is advancing the idea that all the evidence can be interpreted in a variety of ways and everyone is biased,” So dinosaur fossils, which should make creationism a pretty tough sell, are actually considered “talking points.” Creationists use stock responses to people who question creationism such as: “Well, maybe humans just were better organized and made it to high ground faster than dinosaurs! In a nutshell, all of these ideas are easy to debunk.

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Gary my question is HOW Fiske put them in the Arc?

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Troy Day YECers often say that the gap theory can drive people away from Christianity. Actually, the opposite is true. In a recent article, “Where do dinosaurs fit?” in Beyond Today. The article starts with the question: “I don’t believe in the Bible because dinosaurs lived a long time before man ever did.”

      Most people believe you can’t reconcile dinosaurs and the Bible—but they are wrong. This erroneous idea is based on the supposition that either you have to believe in the young-earth theory of a 6,000-year-old earth and dinosaurs living with Adam, or you can’t believe in the creation week account of Genesis 1.

      Yet many would be surprised to find that several centuries ago scientists did believe in dinosaurs, an ancient earth and in creation week. Among them were William Buckland and Adam Sedgwick. Buckland held the chair of geology at Oxford [University in England] in the early-nineteenth century, while Sedgwick was his counterpart at Cambridge. Both were leading churchmen, and both preached the plenary inspiration of Scripture and argued in favor of special creation …

      “Buckland maintained close links with Sedgwick and the famous French geologist, Baron Cuvier … They did much to persuade the early nineteenth-century church that the earth was extremely old and that such views could be harmonized with the teaching of Genesis” (Creation and Evolution, 1985, pp. 72-73).

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Troy Day Further in the same article above, the famous paleontologist G.G. Simpson once remarked: “The most puzzling event in the history of life on the earth is the change from the Mesozoic Age of Reptiles, to the … Age of Mammals. It is as if the curtain were rung down suddenly on a stage where all the leading roles were taken by reptiles, especially dinosaurs, in great numbers and bewildering variety, and rose again immediately to reveal the same setting but an entirely new cast, a cast in which the dinosaurs do not appear at all, other reptiles are supernumeraries and the leading parts are all played by mammals of sorts barely hinted at in the previous acts” ( Life Before Man, 1972, p. 42).

      This reflects the change from the pre-Adamic world to the world of man. Certainly there are smaller reptiles in our world, but they are insignificant in comparison to what existed in the previous age.

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Gary dinos died in the flood which makes the Bible true and young / flat earthers YFE dead wrong

  • Reply June 6, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Hello Peter Where are you? Was 5 hrs sleep enough? DINO topic is still open What is your response ? Gary Micheal Epping seems to me young / flat earthers fail when it comes to the dinos

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Point # 9 concerning original sin is won by default. The YEC site, ‘Answers in Genesis,’ says “Often when Christians think of the first sin, they think of Adam and Eve and the Fall in the Garden of Eden. While this is indeed the first human sin, it is not the first recorded sin in Scripture. As Christians, we know that the serpent tempted Eve, but we often forget that the devil’s fall from grace was what set the stage for humankind’s fall, both as antecedent and type… It is obvious from the text that Satan’s sin was pride.” So, I don’t think Peter can argue his way around his own material. No need to go any further on this one.

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      True on points 9 and 10 Seems Fiske is out 10 for 10 again

    • Reply June 6, 2018

      Gary Micheal Epping

      Troy Day Yes, but get ready for a deluge of spam articles when he wakes up or gets home from work. Even though the evidence for the final two points is overwhelming, he always has something to say in order to try to camouflage the facts.

    • Reply June 8, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      what you think about this one
      Robert Erwine

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