Question: In Arminianism how do you reconcile Gods absolute foreknowledge with the suffering? If God knew the fall of man was coming and billions would be tormented for eternity in hell why would he create man?
Ricky Grimsley [12/26/2015 10:43 PM]
Good thing i am an open-theist.
Michael Green [12/26/2015 11:37 PM]
He created man with will to see what choice he would make. Man pushes God away. God doesn’t push man away. Man creates his own torment God just knew it would happen.
John Conger [12/26/2015 11:52 PM]
I know the belief, my question is how can you believe he is a loving God if he created man knowing most would suffer damnation?
William Lance Huget [12/26/2015 11:56 PM]
This is a problem for most views and even atheists bring it up. Open Theism is a more biblical, coherent free will theism and resolves the issue. The possibility of the Fall does not mean it was necessary, intended, caused, desired, probable.
Calvinistic decretalism/determinism is the most problematic. Arminian simple foreknowledge based on eternal now is also based on wrong assumptions leading to wrong conclusions.
Michael Green [12/27/2015 12:00 AM]
No man has to suffer damnation it is a choice. When Adam bit the apple it gave us the knowledge of good and evil. God himself wishes that all would come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and not evil. Unfortunately some are very stubborn and refuse to believe. Read Genesis God said He was sorry He even created man that’s why He sent His Son to reconcile us back to Him. When Adam bit the apple we were all condemned but God made a way for us to escape through His Son Jesus Christ.
John Conger [12/27/2015 12:02 AM]
But you believe God knew most would not choose life prior to creating man correct?
William Lance Huget [12/27/2015 12:02 AM]
Exhaustive definite foreknowledge is not logically possible, even for an omniscient being, if libertarian free will exists (contingencies).
Michael Green [12/27/2015 12:04 AM]
He is a very very loving God its man who consistently disappoints Him. Read the Old Testament how God’said chosen people repeatedly worshipped idols and we’re sexual immoral. God was and still is patient with them for many centuries.
John Conger [12/27/2015 12:05 AM]
I’m not sure you’re understanding my question.
Michael Green [12/27/2015 12:06 AM]
No if he was disappointed I believe even He did not expect the outcome
John Conger [12/27/2015 12:09 AM]
Ok thank you for the honesty. I also agree with everything else you’ve said fyi. I believe he knew it was a possibility but limits his own foreknowledge
Michael Green [12/27/2015 12:10 AM]
William Lance Huget [12/27/2015 12:10 AM]
How does God limit His FK?
John Conger [12/27/2015 12:13 AM]
I believe he could have exhaustive foreknowledge iif he wanted. But obviously he would not be able to experience the relationship with man of that were the case. And obviously he had the ability to since only the father knows the time of his coming. Jesus obviously limited his own fore knowledge
William Lance Huget [12/27/2015 12:15 AM]
Are you Open Theist?
John Conger [12/27/2015 12:15 AM]
David Smith [12/27/2015 12:30 AM]
This entire discussion presupposes that somehow God is limited to human understanding, emotion, etc… One of the basic theological tenants of theology is that God is omniscient.
Michael Green [12/27/2015 12:34 AM]
Yeah but open theist? Arminianism? Aren’t we all the body of Christ?
William Lance Huget [12/27/2015 12:35 AM]
John Conger Most Open Theists would affirm that God knows all that is knowable and is ignorant of nothing. An omniscient being cannot choose to not know the knowable. If the future was exhaustively knowable in this type of actualized creation, He would know it. The reason He does not have EDF is because it is logically impossible in light of LFW (non-determinism), just as omnipotence is limited to the doable (He cannot make square circles or married bachelors).
So, to have love, relationship, free will, image of God, etc., moral agents logically limit His FK because they are significant others with a say so. Endless time vs eternal now is also an issue in that the future is fundamentally different than the fixed past or actual present. Jesus was limited on earth as a man, but not in pre-existence and post-resurrection. The reason He did not know at that time, was the Father had not fixed the date of the Second Coming. When the Father knows, the Son will know.
David Smith [12/27/2015 12:37 AM]
Michael Green [12/27/2015 12:40 AM]
Wow deep don’t really understand what you said but i think its good.
John Kissinger [12/27/2015 4:40 AM]
IS OPEN THEISM HERETICAL? http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/is-open-theism-heretical/
Ricky Grimsley [12/27/2015 6:02 AM]
Open theism isnt heresy. There is plenty of evidence for it. William Lance Huget is doing a great job of explaining it. Jesus was an open theist. He knows the father pretty well right? Matthew 26:39 KJVS
 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt .
John Kissinger [12/27/2015 6:08 AM]
Roger E. Olson has done a great job explaining: Is Open Theism a Type of Arminianism? http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolson/2012/11/is-open-theism-a-type-of-arminianism/
Ricky Grimsley [12/27/2015 6:24 AM]
I don’t consider myself any type of armenien.