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#IHOP-KC has moved to a post-trib eschatology
Finally able to locate in my notes collections, the handout from #IHOP-KC and confirm what Peter A Vandever was talking about their move toward post-trib eschatology Rick Wadholm Jr
Peter A Vandever [09/29/2015 1:17 PM]
Mike has been post trib since the 80s
John Kissinger [09/29/2015 1:19 PM]
well this hand-out was created no earlier than 2009-10 as far as I can tell from my dating (not absolutely sure, but it aint the 80s)
Peter A Vandever [09/29/2015 1:21 PM]
He got really radical about it in the 2003-2004 window…why i left
John Kissinger [09/29/2015 1:22 PM]
Byron Benefield [09/29/2015 1:23 PM]
Jesus was post-trib. 🙂
John Kissinger [09/29/2015 1:24 PM]
The Prophetic History is 10 hours of stories about supernatural visions, experiences, and prophetic words that were given to Mike Bickle from a number of prophets back in the 1980’s. Peter A
Link Hudson [09/29/2015 1:42 PM]
Good. It sounds like someone has been reading their Bible. II Thessalonians 1 has the church receiving rest while Jesus comes back and executes wrath on them that believe not. There are so many pre-trib arguments that rely on allegorical interpretation and assuming pre-trib into the passages.
Peter A Vandever, did you know Scott Martin or Robert Nelms in Kansas City?
Peter A Vandever [09/29/2015 1:49 PM]
Scott Martin? British guy?
Peter A Vandever [09/29/2015 1:50 PM]
Mike is wrong. There will be a Pre-Trib rapture…. Perry Stone told me so 🙂
Terry Wiles [09/29/2015 1:51 PM]
Lol. They, Bickel and others, were students when Wagner and Wimber were experimenting with signs and wonders. They are a product of the subjective thus they turn in the wind.
Link Hudson [09/29/2015 1:51 PM]
Peter A Vandever, Scott Martin an American guy, at the time probably really excited enthusiastic kind of guy, though he came back to visit a little toned down, a little fatter, smoking a cigarrette and talking about grace. He was a new believer who prayed in tongues several hours a day when he went out there. In his 20’s. But that was early to mid-1990’s. The prophetic history was what… 1980s?
Peter A Vandever [09/29/2015 1:53 PM]
I am not sure. My mom might remember him. We only visited KC alot. We was in the military at the time stationed here.
Link Hudson [09/29/2015 1:55 PM]
Peter A Vandever, no he was in his 20’s, and felt led to drop out of college and then believed he was lead to to to Kansas City ‘for some training’ he said. I think I’ve got him as a facebook friend, btw.
Peter A Vandever [09/29/2015 1:57 PM]
God lead many people to Kansas City. Not everyone was against the Presence of God 🙂
Terry Wiles [09/29/2015 1:59 PM]
The spirit of God, man, and evil are all penuma. It is important to be discerning about which (S)spirit.
Link Hudson [09/29/2015 2:56 PM]
Peter A Vandever, go back and read my comments. I did not say that I was ‘against Toronto.’ I never went there. I can’t say God didn’t do a work in people’s lives there. But in the cell group I was in, the flow of gifts of the Spirit (at least in prophetic prayer) seemed to die down as people started just praying ‘fire, fire, fire’ and ‘more, more, more’ and shaking. There also seemed to be this idea that if you questioned anything, you were likely going against God, saying that he offends the mind to reveal the heart. If you think about it, that’s a recipe for emotionalism and maye even other influences.
I also saw a couple of guys from North America, one of them kept doing some sort of pelvic thrust thing and I’m not sure if the other guy was on his first, second, or third wife at the time (I hear it’s three now) who kept talking about a great revival– and you might do this weird thing, or that weird thing. They were trying to talk the Indonesian congregation into accepting weird spastic movements and other stuff.
The Bible says, ‘let all things be done unto edifying’ and ‘the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets’. Don’t you see a problem with church meetings being filled up with people doing weird spastic stuff and yelling stuff out that doesn’t edify others, especially if it is drowning out the operation of gifts that do edify?
If someone is going to scream ‘Ho!’ in church, can others understand and be edified? Does it mean that t whole church is fake and needs to repent and stop being a ‘ho’? Is one person there a ‘ho’ and needs to repent? Are we supposed to spiritually hoe the garden (or Vineyard?) If there is no interpretati, how is it to edify? If the there is no interprter, the speaker in tongues is to keep silent in the church and let him speak to himself and to God, according to the commandmentf the Lord. The man who considers himself a prophet or spiritual should recognize the commandments of the Lord.
Peter A Vandever [09/29/2015 2:58 PM]
cell groups are unbiblical 🙂
Link Hudson [09/29/2015 2:59 PM]
It was actually a church plant that met in a house. I misspoke. Do you really believe that or are you teasing me?
Peter A Vandever [09/29/2015 3:00 PM]
I really believe that but also giving you a hard time. 🙂 I dont care if they bark like dogs, roar like loins or yell ho, lo, and then bam….. if they get up and heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out devils 🙂
Peyton Gurley [09/29/2015 3:02 PM]
I’ve heard a lot of bad about IHOP. But I have a question. If we are His bride, why would He beat us up before we go to Him?
Charles Page [09/29/2015 3:03 PM]
Post trib is still dispensationalism and pre-mil.
So do they believe we are in the tribulation? The return of Christ must take place within the next several years or are we to get ready for a tribulation yet to come.
They should affirm an A-mil view.
Peyton Gurley [09/29/2015 3:05 PM]
What is premil and amil
Charles Page [09/29/2015 3:08 PM]
Peyton Gurley [09/29/2015 3:10 PM]
Oh yeah. I forget you’re to proud to teach.
Peter A Vandever [09/29/2015 3:11 PM]
AMil…. believes there is no rapture…. Methodlst teach this.
The Prophetic History is 10 hours of stories about supernatural visions, experiences, and prophetic words that were given to Mike Bickle from a number of prophets back in the 1980’s. Bickel and others, were students when Wagner and Wimber were experimenting with signs and wonders. They are a product of the subjective thus they turn in the wind. So do they believe we are in the tribulation? The return of Christ must take place within the next several years or are we to get ready for a tribulation yet to come
Does this surprise anyone? When one deals with the subjective and sets oneself as a New apostle the natural belief system is more Romanist than Protestant. Thus, Christ cannot return until “The Church ” make the world ready for Him. The Lord Himself will come and that “Church” will be weighed and found wanting.
Cant wait for Hillsong to state their complete plan of a clear eschatologcal position…
Judye Maxwell Rasmussen
From my research…cult
I’m no expert on IHOP eschatology, but this adjustment may be in order to bring them in line with most NAR/New Prophetic organizations, who use the frailties of Dispensationalism as a Strawman in order to advance the eschatology of Peterism, that is required for Seven Mountains Dominionism.
Thank you very much Dan Irving Right on the money Pls see my discussion with Peter A Vandever This is exactly why this move – part of #NAR http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/mike-bickle-of-ihop-just-endorsed-ted-cruz/
Convenient Reverse-Engineering of God’s Word.
What else is left when the power is gone, except to cover it with a man made veil?
Oh my. And it is so late in the day.
Joshua Peter Phillips
I think they have always had that approach.
not really They were pre Trib till about 5 yrs ago Then they changed to post trib to they can endorse the TX candidate in the last elections who was backed by NAR – their move has influenced a number of other churches especially as to the Kansas and Tulsa areas
Philip Williams the Trump 2020 post-mil kingdom-now mania increases Nelson Banuchi as Evangelical Free Church of America stepped back from its premillennial convictions. https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2019/august-web-only/premillennialism-evangelical-free-church-efca-end-times.html?fbclid=IwAR3Yx-b2j3JnDrsGKHZpiyQ4yizrMKbFrl0fegCXXhz65NHWTFRPqjJL_8Y
iHOP actually went straight NAR IMO Philip Williams and all this just to support their NAR candidate who did not even win Oh well