Can a person who holds to predestined personal election be baptized with the Spirit and speak in tongues?
John Kissinger [07/23/2015 3:40 PM]
Sorry for the delayed comment, but went to pray in tongues for an hour instead of blabbing about tongues on the internet for an hour Alan N Carla Smith
Charles Page [07/23/2015 3:57 PM]
what was your comment?
Charles Page [07/23/2015 4:00 PM]
I am filled with the spirit speaking to myself in songs, psalms and spiritual songs, singing and making melody unto then Lord. I am predestined to personal salvation by eternal election apart from any of my working of grace.
John Kissinger [07/23/2015 4:01 PM]
and yet you were saved by your own free will at McMinnville
Charles Page [07/23/2015 4:27 PM]
converted not born again – I believe I was regenerate at infancy, like Saul. Gal 1:15
James L Alldredge [07/23/2015 5:22 PM]
Had not ever considered the ramifications of election and the baptism of the Spirit. My first impression would be why would God predestined someone to be born again, but not baptized with the Spirit? If all who are saved are predestined, why are we all not baptized? Can salvation be predestined, but Spirit baptism freewill?Doesn’t seem likely, I haven’t had much contact with Calvinist Pentecostals, if they are any they would be better able to parse the distinctions. I am myself firmly in the predestined but still free willled camp which has its own dilemmas to resolve
Edwin Mendez [07/23/2015 5:25 PM]
Predestination is a mystery. Scripture clearly shows that God’s experience with time is not like ours. We experience it linear so predestination seems possible, (before hand) but is this really implying “before” in time in a linear sequence? Scripture shows God is “outside” our space and time. So He sees beginning from end probably simultaneously(?) Well to be honest, no one knows how God experiences time, however we do have evidence that explicitly reveals it is definitely not the linear sequence we experience. Another reason to reject Calvinism because it’s foundational doctrine, that is God’s relationship to time, is enigmatic at best. And Calvinism assumes that God experiences time the same as we do (linearly, like a chronological timeline consisting of an ordered past, present and future) which is really imposing an anthropomorphic element to God where scripture clearly shows the opposite.
John Kissinger [07/23/2015 5:29 PM]
Charles Page Saul clearly backslid at the end of his life…
John Kissinger [07/23/2015 6:18 PM]
How can Charles Page be once-saved-always-saved (even at birth) but not once-filled-always-filled? Did god mixed up his fill or re-fill orders? Rick Wadholm Jr Ed Brewer Eric Muckel Alan N Carla Smith
Charles Page [07/23/2015 7:13 PM]
Edwin, do you advocate open theism?
Edwin Mendez [07/23/2015 7:37 PM]
It depends on what you mean by “open theism” since it seems that every branch of theology has various subcategories with slightly different modifications nuanced. I believe that certain elements of a belief can held as true if they remain to be true under scrutiny without committing to the entire branch of theology. With that said, If by “open theism” you mean the exercise of “human free will” then yes I advocate that reality from open theism. If you by “open theism” you mean the idea that God is not “meticulous” in His involvement in the universe, then no. One thing is clear is 1 cor 13:4-5 is explicit in revealing “love” as not “insisting in its own way.” If God is love (1 John 4:8; 4:16) then it is evident that He shows how powerful He really is by operating in the universe in a way that demonstrates the exercise of His sovereign will without violating ours which is something completely alien to natural man and the calvinist, which really testifies to His supremecy. However He is very much involved in man’s life (psalm 37:23, Proverbs 16:9, 1 kings 22:22). The latter verse explicitly testifies to the reality of other-worldly heavenly entities that exercise their will with God and humans as well.
Charles Page [07/23/2015 8:07 PM]
Do you subscribe to Louis Molina’s view of the will of God and free will?
John Kissinger [07/23/2015 8:14 PM]
A bit of a cheap shot to point to Society of Jesus member on a doctrine believed and practiced in the Early Church 🙂 Why dont we bring this debate to the heart of reformed thinking and juxtapose Augustine vs Philip Melanchthon; and let’s not forget to ask again the original question – if you need to be refilled with the Holy Ghost, how do you not need to be refilled with salvation after you’ve backslid Charles Page ?
Charles Page [07/23/2015 8:18 PM]
once you are baptized by the Holy Spirit (regeneration/new birth) you are always baptized. Once regenerate can’t loose it. Once a child always a child.
John Kissinger [07/23/2015 8:26 PM]
The only thing left for you to say now is that regeneration PRECEDES faith in Christ
Ruthann Merrick [07/23/2015 8:31 PM]
First comes Salvation , Then water Baptisum , then the Baptisium in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues
Charles Page [07/23/2015 8:33 PM]
Regeneration precedes faith in Christ! You have to be born again to see or enter the kingdom of heaven. JESUS SAID THAT NOT ME! 🙂
John Kissinger [07/23/2015 8:33 PM]
Let’s not forget sanctification as Second Work of Grace Rick Wadholm Jr
John Kissinger [07/23/2015 8:34 PM]
Charles Page If indeed, regeneration precedes faith in Christ, this means God causes us to be born again completely independent of faith in Christ! You can forget half of the New Testament right there
John Kissinger [07/23/2015 8:35 PM]
and half of your red back hymnal songs about through faith alone
John Kissinger [07/23/2015 8:36 PM]
and you cannot call yourself reformed any more if it’s not #SolaFide
Charles Page [07/23/2015 8:39 PM]
I knew Ray Hughes but who is Chris?
BTW I don’t hold to #solafide as it is believed by Luther. I’m not reformed.
It is the faith of God that saves us not our faith in God.
John Kissinger [07/23/2015 8:41 PM]
you’ve only learn that from the faith movement in the 80s 🙂
Ruthann Merrick [07/23/2015 8:41 PM]
Word of Faith/
Ruthann Merrick [07/23/2015 8:42 PM]
Error Heresy False doctrine…
Vince Oblak II [07/23/2015 8:51 PM]
Of course. There’s lots of Pentecostal Calvinists out there, praise God.
Charles Page [07/23/2015 9:56 PM]
I searching for Pentecostal Primitive Baptist!
Jason Douglas Greene [08/20/2015 11:30 AM]
that’s pretty much a very sillly question. Wayne Grudem, John Piper, Sam Storms, Charismatic Presbyterians. When I was a student at LEE U, there was a certain Ph.D. (that was wonderful btw) that was a Calvinist. The Charismatic world is far bigger than we imagine.