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Peter Ciple | PentecostalTheology.com
Yes women can preach.
Relegating women to second-class citizenship was abolished when Jesus died on the cross. As it says in Galatians 3:28
Galatians 3:28 (KJV)
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
As far as women being in the pulpit, in the Book of Acts, you will find that Philip had three daughters who were preachers. The apostle Paul in the Book of Romans, the last chapter, the seventh verse, alludes to two people, Andronicus and Junia. Junia is a woman.
And then, he refers to them as “fellow apostles,” which in the life of the early church was the highest position attainable in leadership and in preaching.
When the Holy Spirit falls upon the church on the day of Pentecost, Peter says, “This is what was spoken of by the prophet Joel when he said, ‘The day will come when the Holy Spirit comes upon His people, God’s people, and young men”–and then it says–“and young women shall prophesy, (i.e., shall preach).”
There is a gift of the Holy Spirit that is given to both men and women in the New Testament. This is what makes the New Testament a New Testament rather than the Old Testament, in which women did not have such privileges.
Peter Ciple
This post says it all about the women preachers. Read the comments in the post as well for further information and scripture verses. https://www.facebook.com/334435539991308/photos/a.334437783324417.58385.334435539991308/818763874891803/?type=3&theater
Terry Wiles
May they? 🙂
Dan Irving
Out of balance.
Varnel Watson
Charles Page will probably agree…
Link Hudson
IMO, this shows a lack of understanding of first century Christian practice. It seems to associate being ‘in the pulpit’ with prophesying. That is odd, IMO , from a Pentecostal perspective where prophecy comes ‘from the floor’. Plenty of Pentecostal women have prophesied without setting foot in a pulpit or serving as an elder.
The Bible does not indicate the church meetings had a pulpit, but he indicates they had meetins where ‘every one of you’ may minister within the parameters of the ‘commandments of the Lord’ in the passage.
Scolarship on the Andeonichus and Junia passage acknowledges the ambiguity between whether being of note among the apostles means they were noteworthy apostles or considered by the apostles to be of note. The author uses a translation that paraphrases away the issue.
There is also the fact that Paul twice specifies that a bishop be a man, a one-woman man. That tells us the sex of his marital partner too and it is not male. Paul uses elder and bishop/ overseer to refer to the same role in Acts 20:28 and in Titus 1, a passage that specifies the bishop must be a man.
Jan Dixon Sykes
Deborah ruled Israel as a prophet. “Pastor” was a new invention post Jesus.
Link Hudson
Prophets, priests, and kings pastored Israel. The Old Testament also decried false shepherds.
If there is no male nor female in Christ, does that mean no distinction at all? Don’t husbands and wives have different roles? That verse doesn’t justify gay marriage, does it? Paul said there is neither Jew nor Greek, yet he told the circumcised not to seek to be uncircumcised and the uncircumcised not to sek to he circumcised. He gave wives and husbands different commands. He told slaves to submit to their masters and masters to do what is right toward their slaves.
The passage about no Jew nor Greek, etc. is about being heirs according to the promise.
Jan Dixon Sykes
Just because I submit to my husband doesn’t mean I submit to all men. If Deborah can hold an office, so can I.
Link Hudson
Jan Dixon Sykes It means there is a distinction between male and female roles, and that we should take the ‘neither male nor female’ in context.
Jan Dixon Sykes
So I’ll lead like a woman instead of like a male. Like Deborah did.
Lyn Wilson
sure.
Varnel Watson
one of the good posts by Peter Ciple
Link Hudson
Women could apparently have leasehold property for up to 50 years and inherit property if their father did not have any sons to pass property to as long as they married within their father’s clan.
Jan Dixon Sykes
Jesus appeared to MARY first after his resurrection and told MARY to go tell his disciples. That made MARY the first preacher of good news.
Link Hudson
It must have been tough to have been named ‘bob’ in a Holiness church way back when. Preachers preached against bobbed hair, ear bobs, and you had to be careful of the bobbie pins.
Link Hudson
Jan Dixon Sykes There is no reason to think that Mary was ever an elder of the church.
Jan Dixon Sykes
Link, you have no verse that says women can’t be. Just cuz Paul writes about bishops being the husband of one wife, there is nothing that says women CAN’T be elders. Remember, back then, most women were illiterate, which was why women were told not to be disruptive and to ask questions at home. Just like anyone with a message should remain silent if three messages were already given. It was about decorum, not oppression of anyone.
Link Hudson
Jan Dixon Sykes After saying he would not suffer a woman to teach a man, he says that the bishop must be a man.
If a bishop may be a woman, may a bishop also be worthy of blame, inattentive, a drunkard, of poor behavior, racist and closed to outsiders, unable to teach, violent, and greedy who rules his house poorly and his children are disrespectful to him, a novice, with a poor reputation?
Jan Dixon Sykes
Again, Link, the passage was within the confines of women being mostly illiterate. We no longer are. When I was in Israel, I saw a plaque written back when in honor of Phoebe. It used the word “apostle” next to her name. If you look up her King James description of “servant” in the concordance, the root word is “deacon.” Virtue is timeless and required of both genders.
Link Hudson
Jan Dixon Sykes That reminds me of LGBT arguments, that Paul was writing in a cultural context where homosexual relationships were abusive child molestation relationships, but not so today….
The Bible does not call Phoebe an apostle. It mentions her as a servant or deacon and says of deacons, ‘and their women.’ Deacon is a role of service, not the overseer role of bishop. Two different ministries.
Jan Dixon Sykes
Deacons are elders, who serve.
Link Hudson
Jan Dixon Sykes Show me in the Bible where deacons are elders. I cannot find that in my Bible.
Jan Dixon Sykes
Our demoniation called our “elders” deacons. Pheobe was a deacon. Scripture doesn’t say she was a nobody. Check your concordance on “servant“ in that passage. Synonyms are teacher and minister. It says it is an official position. …………. Jesus came not to be ministed unto, but to minister. Anybody who fills an office is a servant to all the others. ………. You are never going to convince me women can’t hold offices in the church. My parents were married by a female pastor. My husband & I were married by a woman. My dad, a minister, put me in charge of his ranch, not my brother. GOD made Deborah the judge over all of Israel. I think we can handle one little congregation or Sunday school class or be one vote on a board.
Link Hudson
Jan Dixon Sykes I had forgotten about the A/G being ‘baptistic’ about its use of the term deacon. But using A/G terminology for that when discussing the Bible is just plain confusing. I do not see how your or my personal experiences determine what the Bible means. The Bible says nothing of church officials conducting marriage ceremonies.
Jan Dixon Sykes
Look, the solution for women to get to hold positions in the church is not to be illiterate like they were in Paul’s day. He gave some of us the talent for it. You talk about us staying in our lanes. He did not give me the talent for being a stepford wife. My husband is fine with me being a leader. So I AM under authority, because I have his permission. As is any woman who gets appointed or voted into a position in church. She can’t just take it. It has to be given to her.
Link Hudson
Jan Dixon Sykes That’s the same approach liberals take to justify all sorts of things. The teaching only applies because of [insert some cultural context issue.]
Jan Dixon Sykes
Link, the trouble is picking out a single verse and making a doctrin out of it. I look for principles across the whole thing. Deborah. Mary. Phoebe. Jesus elevated women. One of the big reasons I am a Christian. If I wanted to be second class, I could go be an oppressed Muslim. Again, that does not give me permission to bully. I must have a servant’s heart as any man must also. And I just agreed I must have my husband’s permission.
Link Hudson
Jan Dixon Sykes Women doing ministry and women being overseers is not the exact same issue.
I am a Christian because I wanted forgiveness from my sins. Does being in a certain class have anything to do with the motivation to be a Christian?
Jan Dixon Sykes
I did not become a Christian to get forgiveness. At seven I didn’t think I had done anything that needed forgiven. I just wanted a relationship with Jesus. It has been terrific. I thought I could do ALL things through Christ which strengtheneth me.” Guess leading is off the table. Cuz apparently there IS male and female in Christ Jesus. And he made a mistake in giving me leadership talents. As I said, I go by the full gospel, not an isolated verse. My dad, who was an ordained minister sure blundered, too, in making me the overseer of the family ranch, and my brother blundered as well to agree to it. And all those guys I signed the front of their checks over the years blundered, too, by working for me. ………….. You’re wasting your time trying to pursuade me. I’m 65. I’ve already done leadership, including teaching a coed adult Sunday School class. Guess those guys shouldn’t have shown up for it.
Link Hudson
Jan Dixon Sykes I’m reading a lot of strawmen arguments here.
Jan Dixon Sykes
Okay, so quit reading. I already told you I am old and already lived my life. I enjoyed it. No matter what you say, I interpreted scripture the way I did and enjoyed my relationship with Christ. I’m not going to teach any more Sunday School classes or become an elder or pastor. You’re safe from me.
Link Hudson
Jan Dixon Sykes I haven’t discussed your personal situation in this thread as I recall. I have tried to stick to the Biblical issue without directing anything personal at you, but you are the one who has talked about your personal situation. I am not attacking your life, etc.
Varnel Watson
old news – ended in the 80s
Varnel Watson
Just a side note to let you know I am enjoying this discussions SO much True character at its best BTW Jan Dixon Sykes what did you mean when you said
Our demoniation called our “elders” deacons
was this in reference to Link Hudson baptistic ie bapticostal theology? I am not sure if he may recall saying that at all
Link Hudson
Troy Day i mention theA/Gs Baptistic structure after her comment.
Jan Dixon Sykes
I said it because I believed the words were interchangeable according to how I was taught. If you guys want to subjugate women according to a couple verses, go ahead. I won’t come to your churches and corrupt them. I believe there was a larger overarching principle of liberation of women by Jesus, so guess we agree to disagree. Salvation does not hinge on this detail.
Link Hudson
I don’t know that Baptist deacon exactly corresponds to any specific ministry in the Bible.
Varnel Watson
not too sure about bapticostalism BUT in Penteostalism both men and women deacons have their Biblically prescribed role
Link Hudson
Troy Day Where is the verse about deacons hiring the pastor?
Link Hudson
Troy Day there are stills some groups like that bit I don’t know if they use the word bob as much these days.