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Will Jesus come before the mark of the beast?
Varnel Watson
bro Randal from all you’ve said about Orthodox and Pentecostal eshcahtology thus fur it amounts to this – you are saying things you believe and that’s fine BUT they are not characteristic neither of Eastern Orthodox nor Pentecostal eschatological schematics And you’ve shared no proof to back your claims – Lutheran, Calvinist, sure! But Orthodox and Pentecostal – not hardly. You should watch this video before proceeding with comments on Pentecostal eschatology Ricky Grimsley may agree with that too
Randal W Deese
Fact:
Orthodoxy is Amil
AOG teaches dispensationalism
Varnel Watson
wrong Randal
Randal W Deese
Troy Day
http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/top/holyspirit_articledisplay.cfm?targetBay=1b574def-b227-4617-bfc7-a02cdb926902&ModID=2&Process=DisplayArticle&RSS_RSSContentID=15178&RSS_OriginatingChannelID=1170&RSS_OriginatingRSSFeedID=4486&RSS_Source=
Varnel Watson
Read from your link under point 6
In this respect Pentecostals are nondispensational.
I rest my case 🙂
Randal W Deese
Troy Day
Assemblies of God teach Formal dispensationalism. You can read about these distinctions in Meyer Pearlman’s books
Varnel Watson
again – wrong Randal
Randal W Deese
Troy Day The assemblies teach that the time periods of this planet Are broken up into different dispensations… Too funny
Randal W Deese
Everyone knows that the Assemblies of God hold to a dispensational model… I did not say a cessation model
http://www.ancientpath.net/Bible/Resources/breshears_res_Dispensasionalism.htm
Randal W Deese
https://books.google.com/books?id=yWprYuQyzywC&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=that+dispensationalism+I+have+the+assemblies+of+god&source=bl&ots=_Eek3jk2Lq&sig=WsybQI_0n3YjfEbi1QO1jVnHPCo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjp9sDDr_HZAhUq2oMKHQacDwY4ChDoATACegQIBhAB#v=onepage&q=that%20dispensationalism%20I%20have%20the%20assemblies%20of%20god&f=false
Randal W Deese
https://books.google.com/books?id=RejDAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=dispensationalism++assemblies+of+god&source=bl&ots=QsG7DXoF7Q&sig=X7fYP6sNkJBIjMkx1kugyHjLz5o&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi2gY6NtPHZAhVD7oMKHZmmDV04FBDoATAGegQIAhAB#v=onepage&q=dispensationalism%20%20assemblies%20of%20god&f=false
Randal W Deese
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.researchgate.net/publication/233502463_Pentecostals_and_the_Hermeneutics_of_Dispensationalism_The_Anatomy_of_an_Uneasy_Relationship/amp
Randal W Deese
Yes, I stand by the fact that the assemblies of God hold to a dispensational model… Not the cessationist form
Randal W Deese
https://books.google.com/books?id=mpb9pEdHcIIC&pg=PA166&lpg=PA166&dq=dispensationalism++assemblies+of+god&source=bl&ots=abq5k8g2MV&sig=vpQbXoez3tlEHiDzriYIsXV9DMI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjpmqHutvHZAhXh7oMKHfzMAOo4MhDoATAAegQICRAB#v=onepage&q=dispensationalism%20%20assemblies%20of%20god&f=false
Varnel Watson
Randal W Deese In this respect Pentecostals are nondispensational. This might come as a surprise to some since so many Pentecostals have adopted the time frames (eschatology) of formal dispensationalism. It is not, however, the eschatology of dispensationalism that is the primary issue, but rather the ecclesiology, or the doctrine of the church.
Formal dispensationalism teaches that the kingdom of God was offered to the Jews. When they rejected it Jesus took it back to heaven with the plan of revealing it after the Second Coming at the end of the Church Age. This results in a Church Age without, or with very little (a problem for the dispensationalists to figure out), of the Kingdom present.
This is directly from your link http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/top/holyspirit_articledisplay.cfm?targetBay=1b574def-b227-4617-bfc7-a02cdb926902&ModID=2&Process=DisplayArticle&RSS_RSSContentID=15178&RSS_OriginatingChannelID=1170&RSS_OriginatingRSSFeedID=4486&RSS_Source=
Varnel Watson
So Randal Since your own links work against you what do you have to offer as to the evolvement of Pentecostal theology here?
Christian writers and leaders since then, such as Augustine of Hippo and Joachim of Fiore (1135–1202), have also offered their own dispensation arrangements of history.
The early church fathers believed in pre-Trib rapture – what makes your AG argument relative to the issue? Many a-mil/preterists hold Jesus returned in 70 AD – is this your view as well?
http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/the-ancient-church-fathers-believed-in-pre-trib-rapture/
Randal W Deese
You are funny Troy. The entire church world knows the assemblies of God holds to a dispensational model… What is sad, this is supposed to be a Pentecostal theology website that doesn’t know that
Randal W Deese
Now that article is so bad… really?
Varnel Watson
Well if you apply deliberate segregation, maybe BUT truth of the matter is many from many denominations believed dispensation. However AG official stand from the articles you mentioned is neither dispensational nor cessation model Noone is even arguing that So again, what would your contribution to the argument be? Randal
Varnel Watson
IMO so far in this group you have offered only Modalistic Eschatology. It is very possible such view derived from Eschatological Monarchianism that appeared in the second and third centuries AD and easily absorbed within early Orthodoxy when it conformed in the 1054 Great Schism
Randal W Deese
Troy Day They teach the same dispensations Scofield Bible…
Randal W Deese
Troy Day So far, you have not read very carefully much of what I’ve said… This, I find very interesting
Varnel Watson
You may have experienced that somewhere in TX in the 70-80s but truth is true Pentecostalism never accepted denominations constricting the Role of the Holy Spirit – now that everyone knows well
Randal W Deese
Troy Day No one even mention that… Where in the world are you coming from
Randal W Deese
Troy Day By the way, I also went to Bethany Bible college in Santa Cruz California in my early days
Varnel Watson
Congratulations! So have most of our members
Randal W Deese
Troy Day I went there when it was still practicing Pentecostalism… LOL…
Varnel Watson
So that’s makes you an expert 🙂 I’ve been wondering
Randal W Deese
Troy Day I am an expert in certain theological categories… I suppose you are too
Varnel Watson
The eschatological modalism you’ve proposed does not fit Pentecostal theology I doubt it ever will but it will help if you can explain it past a-mil basics which maybe detrimental
Randal W Deese
Troy Day You’re not making any sense… But that’s OK
Ricky Grimsley
Jesus will not come back before the mark of the beast. 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 tells us that.
Varnel Watson
The one verse that kills preterism all together http://probible.net/revelation-204/?
Ricky Grimsley
There is more biblical support for preterism than pretrib. At least they have a verse that says the gospel was preached around the world and the end already came. Colossians 1:23 KJVS
[23] If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Varnel Watson
This not true of course but they also have the whole Rev 20 to deal with So good luck with that before becoming preterist
Randal W Deese
Rev 20 is easy… If sound Hermeneutics is applied and not some form of Anachronistic thinking.
Varnel Watson
you seem to believe Millenium is possible without Christ physically present – how so?
Randal W Deese
Troy Day You don’t believe He is reigning now? Hmmmm
Varnel Watson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5OfTCJh4Qc