WHO is the BEAST of Revelation?

WHO is the BEAST of Revelation?
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Wayne Scott No Bible writer ever called the Beast of Revelation “the antichrist.”  You are right in saying that the word “antichrist” appears only in I and II John.  But there it is clearly described as a false belief system consisting of teachers and doctrines which had already arrived at the time of the writing.  There is no mention of an anything yet to come antichrist.In 2007 I finished a book called The Prophets’ Gospel where I charge that the one-person-yet-to-come antichrist is a decoy created by the biblical antichrist and that like the proverbial dumb blond the bride of Christ has fallen for the decoy while the real antichrist has crept in the back door in the form of unbiblical doctrines and concepts.
Jonathan Julius Thaks i was looking for that so many times
Troy Day Ricky Grimsley http://en.protothema.gr/turkish-president-erdogan-get…/
Randal W Deese This is easy – Nero
Troy Day Randal W Deese I think Ricky Grimsley may disagree with you
Ricky Grimsley Preterism is unbelievable to me.
Randal W Deese Dispensationism is a fantasy to me…lol
Troy Day Neither preterism not dispansations are Pentecostal theology to begin with
Randal W Deese Hahaha…Penetecostalism defined is what one believes about BHS, not the other doctrines – at least according to “The New International Dictionary of Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements”
Troy Day You have long ways to go brother
Randal W Deese The AOG have always been dispensational…
Troy Day Actually that is not true at all
Randal W Deese Troy Day Yes… I have many more Pentecostal pastors to convert to Orthodoxy
Troy Day Which is not going to happen because Orthodoxy is theologically and practically inadequate to embrace the vast Pentecostalism movement but thats another issue. Pentecostals rejected  dispensations because it was baptist cessation view Pentecostals  believe the Holy Spirit has been active in all human history not just one dispensation
Randal W Deese Troy Day 1. I have Pentecostal Pastors contact me daily interested in Orthodoxy… And I haven’t even advertised yet… God is at work. In fact, I have so many Pastors contacting me, I cannot keep up.2. Yes. AOG holds to a slightly modified dispensationalism.
Troy Day AOG does not hold  modified dispensationalism. You need to read more on that as well
Randal W Deese Troy Day Oh yes they do… I took courses from AG years ago I still have their books
Troy Day with your age in mind this may be true – what AG and which years; Many in this group claim doctrines that are not AG
Randal W Deese Troy Day 1970s
Troy Day Well Randal you are too late on the conversion. We already converted most Orthodox and other faiths to Pentecostalism in the 70sThen if you think Nero was the anriChrist you are not going to convert any Pentecostals to your strange doctrine. Certainly not Ricky Grimsley
Randal W Deese Truth has a way of drawing in those who long for it…
Troy Day pretty sure your conversion strategy is no go
Randal W Deese Troy Day Well, it seems to be working quite well. It will be really interesting to see what happens when I start reaching out. God keeps leading, promising, and fulfilling… I’m merely the spectator…
Troy Day I can guess what will happen but oh well
Randal W Deese Troy Day *smile* God will fulfill all He has promised me.. He hasn’t let me down yet.
Troy Day How many Orthodox churches in Arizona?
Randal W Deese Troy Day No idea
Troy Day Exactly I knew a metropolit there who was KGB spy I think he passed How many in TX?
Randal W Deese Troy Day Orthodox-Pentecostalism will be in the thousands within 3 years…
Troy Day Aint happening but in TX you can try your experiment  with Ricky Grimsley for starters 🙂
Randal W Deese Troy Day I wait for people to come to me… So far, it is working.. I love what God is doing…
Troy Day Doubt it but you convert Ricky Grimsley you convert them all
Randal W Deese Troy Day It is much better to allow the Holy Spirit to lead…
Troy Day God is in control. Spirit is leading. Ricky not converted just yet 🙂
Randal W Deese Looks like Troy is leading to me… *smile*
Ricky Grimsley I was glad to see the upci declare preterism as heresy. Jesus would have to appear in a vision for me to accept it.
Randal W Deese Ricky Grimsley That’s a trustworthy source…not! Although, full Preterism is heretical
Troy Day Many preterists have declared upci a heresy
Randal W Deese Troy Day Almost all of Christendom declares UPCI heretical.
Ricky Grimsley Randal W Deese I believe that realizing the difference between Luke 21and Matthew 24 would end the preterism argument.
Troy Day Almost all of Christendom declares preterism heretical.
Randal W Deese I believe the context principle eliminates most futurism scenarios. …. Just simply applying hermeneutics consistently
Randal W Deese Troy Day Yes.. Full Preterism is known as a heresy by most of Christendom.Dispensationalism should be purged from the world like Calvinism… *Smile*
Ricky Grimsley Randal W Deese that’s why Luke 21 is important.
Ricky Grimsley Luke 21:12-24 is the key to understanding the truth in my opinion. Notice the same signs of Matthew, Mark, Luke, Revelation 6….false Christ’s, war, famine death as signs of the end but in Luke he tells them what will happen before the end. It is a separate conversation in a different location. Luke 21:12 KJVS[12] But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you , delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name’s sake.
Randal W Deese Ricky Grimsley I will answer later. I have many errands to do for in depth discussion.  All I will be able to do for now is small little quips…Like.. prove they are working of two separate events…
Ricky Grimsley First they are two different conversations because a they are in different places with two different groups of people. Luke is inside the temple with a large group as the watch the widow. Matthew 24 takes place privately with only Peter, James John and Andrew (Mark gives the names) away from the temple.
Ricky Grimsley Second Luke lists the signs of what happens BEFORE the end time scenario that Matthew 24 starts with. Notice Luke 21:12
Ricky Grimsley Matthew and mark and Luke give a time line starting with the rise of false Christ’s while Luke lists those same signs but then say “but before that”…..
Randal W Deese Ricky Grimsley That is not evidence… That is speculation… That is not how exegesis works nor hermeneutics
Troy Day It is also pure speculation that any Eastern Orthodox are preterists – probably some left overs from lutheran calvinist progressive post-milenialism or so
Ricky Grimsley How is it speculation. Those are what the words say.
Randal W Deese Ricky Grimsley It is speculation because it doesn’t prove your point… It doesn’t state clearly in any sense of the word that this is regarding another period of time… In other words, there is no timestamp
Ricky Grimsley Sure is does. The disciple say what are the signs of your coming. Jesus gives a list. There is a list starting a false Christs in Matthew and continues to the end. In Luke….he starts with False Christ’s and describes what will happen before the false Christ comes. He literally says “before all that”. I don’t see what the problem is.
Troy Day Please all Orthodox believed in chilliasm Then comes Constantine They declare symbouses between church and state and 1000 years Millenium. Then they start living the Millenium around 4th c. 1000 years pass nothing happens and they call it all off. Now 1600 years later no Eastern Orthodox is hyper preteristmild preteristor even historical preterist in the real sense of the termEastern Orthodox churches are still waiting on Tribulation
Ricky Grimsley Troy Day do you see the difference between Luke and Matthew that I described?
Randal W Deese Amillennialism is by far the most dominant eschatological position in the history of Christianity. (“Eschatology” refers to the doctrine of “last things,” meaning the end times.) The view is held by the Roman Catholic Church, the Greek Orthodox Church, and by a large segment of Protestantism.
Ricky Grimsley I would be amillennial as well if the Bible didn’t describe it most notably in revelation 20.
Randal W Deese Ricky Grimsley Chiliasm is a teaching that Christ will reign for a literal 1000 years on earth after his second coming. Chiliasm was condemned at the Council of Nicea with the phrase “whose kingdom shall have no end” in the Nicene Creed.
Troy Day That is neither true NOR can be historically proved. A-mil comes solely from Augustine. Agustine however though defending a-mil (and not postmil) wrote exclusively in the terms of Constantine being the start of the Kingdom of God ie Millenium. When Rome went astray on being any type of the Kingdom of God but purely secular empire Augistine and others started saying oh no we made mistake – no millenim The City of God all 500 pages  and all is about this type of apology. Augustine was wrong – so was the whole a-mil theoretix. End of story. Denying Rev 20 as part of the Bible is the only way to prove any type of a-millenialism
Ricky Grimsley Randal W Deese his kingdom doesn’t end. It keeps growing through the millennium
Troy Day “whose kingdom shall have no end” in the Nicene Creed does not  refer to the 1000 millenium on earth 🙂 This is grossly over reading the Creed – creeds happen to be my thing as Ricky Grimsley has noted 🙂
Randal W Deese Troy Day No, I love the creeds and I totally disagree with you
Troy Day Ricky Grimsley I am unable to find your source for UPC condemning preterism Randal W Deese I have no knowledge that Orthodox are preterists. This is a nuance claim. Most Orthodox are post-mil futurists expecting to go through the Tribilation with a very real beast – not the historical Nero of course Also historical preterism claim Antiochus IV Epiphanes to be the preterist antiChrist NOT NERO!
Randal W Deese Too funny. Do some serious research.
Randal W Deese Orthodoxy are centered on amillenialism… as I. https://orthodoxwiki.org/Book_of_Revelation
Troy Day naah You are mistaking them with Catholics and the view of Augustine Virtually the whole Russian Orthodox church believed Stalin was the antiChrist – that’s not preterism. That’s pure speculation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSYdqk4kJJY
Ricky Grimsley My source was the two upci guys that work for me.
Troy Day Crucial to the interpretation of Daniel 8:9-14 is the identification of the little horn power, which dominates these verses.  Attempting to identify this little horn, commentators have applied three different methods (preterist, futurist, and historicist) of prophetic interpretation to the texts.Preterists teach that the majority Daniel’s prophecies have already been fulfilled and, therefore, have no present significance. They hold that the little horn rose from one of the divisions of Alexander’s empire; they specifically identify it with the reign of Antiochus IV Epiphanes  (175-164 B.C.). I have never met ANY real Eastern Orthodox that believes ANY of that It is pure speculation that any Eastern Orthodox are preterists
Troy Day Ricky Grimsley bottom line – hype preterism also called Orthodox preterism believes Christ returnedin 70 AD@charles page beleives that (somewhat) or so he saysShould we conclude Randal W Deese believes as Charles does?
Randal W Deese I’ve already told you that I’m Amil. Be careful not to bear false witness brother
Troy Day Randal W Deese  That is neither true NOR can be historically proved. A-mil comes solely from Augustine. Agustine however though defending a-mil (and not postmil) wrote exclusively in the terms of Constantine being the start of the Kingdom of God ie Millenium. When Rome went astray on being any type of the Kingdom of God but purely secular empire Augistine and others started saying oh no we made mistake – no millenim The City of God all 500 pages  and all is about this type of apology. Augustine was wrong – so was the whole a-mil theoretix. End of story. Denying Rev 20 as part of the Bible is the only way to prove any type of a-millenialism
Randal W Deese Troy Day Chiliasm is a teaching that Christ will reign for a literal 1000 years on earth after his second coming. Chiliasm was condemned at the Council of Nicea with the phrase “whose kingdom shall have no end” in the Nicene Creed.
Troy Day We know what Chiliasm is You dont need to teach basics of eschatology but provide proof for your stance. Pls check your terminology brother most preterists include a-mil as basics in their apologetix. a-mil is heretical teaching in any sort and measure
Randal W Deese Troy Day AD30-AD130 (10 Amils, 1 Chiliasts) The Didache (or Teaching of the Twelve Apostles)Palestine(A.D. 65-80)MathetesGreece(A.D 90The grandsons of JudePalestine(1st century)The Shepherd of HermasRome, Italy(written in 88-99 AD)ClementBishop of Rome, Italy(Died around 99 A.D.)2 Clement Rome, Italy(Early 2nd century)IgnatiusBishop of Antioch, Syria(A.D. 98-117)The Ascension of IsaiahPalestine(late 1st century to early 2nd century)Papias Hierapolis, Turkey(A.D. 98-117)PolycarpBishop in Smyrna, Turkey(Born AD 68, writes about AD 110, martyred about AD 155)AristidesAthens, Greece(120-130 AD)
Troy Day please Randal W Deese – now you gonna copy pate? The Ancient Church Fathers Believed in Pre-Trib Rapture Go read on it more please http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/the-ancient-church…/
Randal W Deese Troy Day AD130-AD230 (15 Amils, 5 Chiliasts, 1 unknown)Barnabus(Alexandria, Egypt)(Written in A.D. 130-131)The Apocalypse of PeterPalestine(written between the years 132-135)Epistula Apostolorum (Epistle of the Apostles)Asia Minor (now Turkey) (The 140s)Justin Asia Minor (now Turkey) (AD 100-166)Irenaeus Bishop of Lyons, Gaul, (now France)(AD 150)The Odes of Solomon Syria(Middle of the 2nd century)PolycratesBishop of Ephesus, ancient Greek city (now Turkey)(flourished c.130 – 196)Aviricius MarcellusBishop of Hieropolis, Lesser Phrygia, Turkey(flourished about 163AD)TatianSyrian(A.D. 170)AthenagorasAthens, Greece(wrote A.D. 177)Letter from Vienna and Lyons, Gaul (now France)(AD177-AD178)HegesippusJerusalem, Palestine(flourished between 150 and 180 A.D)MelitoBishop of Sardis, Asia Minor (now Turkey) (d. c. 180)TheophilusBishop of Antioch, Syria(His death probably occurred between 183 – 185)Claudius ApollinarisBishop of Hierapolis, Turkey(2nd century)Old Roman Symbol (or Old Roman Creed)(Rome, Italy)(200AD)Clement Alexandria, Egypt(c.150 – c. 215)The Gospel of Nicodemus (or Acts Of Pilate) (probably Palestine)(150-255 AD)HippolytusRome, Italy(AD 170 – 236)TertullianCarthage, Africa, (now Tunisia)(c. 160 – c. 220 AD)The Acts of ThomasSyria(200-225 AD)
Randal W Deese Chiliasm is a teaching that Christ will reign for a literal 1000 years on earth after his second coming. Chiliasm was condemned at the Council of Nicea with the phrase “whose kingdom shall have no end” in the Nicene Creed.
Troy Day we know what Chiliasm is Randal W Deese It also seems that you dont have basic grasp on eschatological terminology. Amilleanialism is include in many pretersitc views Your read of what Millenial vs Kingdom of God with no end is largely erroneous
Randal W Deese AD30-AD130 (10 Amils, 1 Chiliasts) The Didache (or Teaching of the Twelve Apostles)Palestine(A.D. 65-80)MathetesGreece(A.D 90The grandsons of JudePalestine(1st century)The Shepherd of HermasRome, Italy(written in 88-99 AD)ClementBishop of Rome, Italy(Died around 99 A.D.)2 Clement Rome, Italy(Early 2nd century)IgnatiusBishop of Antioch, Syria(A.D. 98-117)The Ascension of IsaiahPalestine(late 1st century to early 2nd century)Papias Hierapolis, Turkey(A.D. 98-117)PolycarpBishop in Smyrna, Turkey(Born AD 68, writes about AD 110, martyred about AD 155)AristidesAthens, Greece(120-130 AD)
Troy Day you are too funny Randal W Deese Read on  ANCIENT CHURCH FATHERS BELIEVED IN PRE-TRIB RAPTURE http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/the-ancient-church…/
Randal W Deese Troy Day StudyAD130-AD230 (15 Amils, 5 Chiliasts, 1 unknown)Barnabus(Alexandria, Egypt)(Written in A.D. 130-131)The Apocalypse of PeterPalestine(written between the years 132-135)Epistula Apostolorum (Epistle of the Apostles)Asia Minor (now Turkey) (The 140s)Justin Asia Minor (now Turkey) (AD 100-166)Irenaeus Bishop of Lyons, Gaul, (now France)(AD 150)The Odes of Solomon Syria(Middle of the 2nd century)PolycratesBishop of Ephesus, ancient Greek city (now Turkey)(flourished c.130 – 196)Aviricius MarcellusBishop of Hieropolis, Lesser Phrygia, Turkey(flourished about 163AD)TatianSyrian(A.D. 170)AthenagorasAthens, Greece(wrote A.D. 177)Letter from Vienna and Lyons, Gaul (now France)(AD177-AD178)HegesippusJerusalem, Palestine(flourished between 150 and 180 A.D)MelitoBishop of Sardis, Asia Minor (now Turkey) (d. c. 180)TheophilusBishop of Antioch, Syria(His death probably occurred between 183 – 185)Claudius ApollinarisBishop of Hierapolis, Turkey(2nd century)Old Roman Symbol (or Old Roman Creed)(Rome, Italy)(200AD)Clement Alexandria, Egypt(c.150 – c. 215)The Gospel of Nicodemus (or Acts Of Pilate) (probably Palestine)(150-255 AD)HippolytusRome, Italy(AD 170 – 236)TertullianCarthage, Africa, (now Tunisia)(c. 160 – c. 220 AD)The Acts of ThomasSyria(200-225 AD)
Randal W Deese Troy Day Stop reading the other people have written… Go to the church fathers… Ha ha ha ha
Troy Day bro Randal from all you’ve said about Orthodox and Pentecostal eshcahtology thus fur it amounts to this – you are saying things you believe and that’s fine BUT they are not characteristic neither of Eastern Orthodox nor Pentecostal eschatological schematics And you’ve shared no proof to back your claims – Lutheran, Calvinist, sure! But Orthodox and Pentecostal – not hardly
Randal W Deese 1. Orthodoxy teaches Amil. Always has taught Amil. 2. AOG teaches dispensationalismThose things are facts. NOTHING to prove.
Troy Day not really – both arguments a partially wrong Orthodoxy did not teach a-mil during their Byzantine era – they every much believed they were in a mil not a-mil
Randal W Deese Troy Day I have the statements of every church father for the first 400 years 90% are Amil. Go read the church fathers
Randal W Deese Troy Day … And I know for a fact AOG teaches dispensationalism… I still have the books they gave me and I know what I read
Troy Day You can know for a fact what ever you would like but it does not make it true. The article you posted proved it clearly
Randal W Deese Troy Day I’ve studied this issue for 40 years… I know when something is not true
Troy Day Most of us here have studied the same issues for the same if not longer amount of time 🙂
Randal W Deese Troy Day It’s one thing to study the item and prove what you’ve always been taught… It is another to be objective… Since I was taught my basic theology in the Assemblies of God years ago, I realized that the Bible had to be the final authority not the AOG
Troy Day Sounds like you are starting to back from your original stance
Randal W Deese Troy Day Nice Dan hasn’t change from the very first statement I made… I just don’t think you understand it
Troy Day I understand your statement to be wrong and your understanding of Pentecostalism partial at best
Randal W Deese Troy Day Anybody can believe what they want… Does not make it true
Troy Day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5OfTCJh4Qc
Troy Day yes Randal W Deese “Orthodox-Pentecostalism will be in the thousands within 3 years…” Study Pentecostalism some first. Still waiting on the 700 churches to join you by mid-May 🙂
Randal W Deese Study Pentacostalism some? I cut my teeth on Pentacostalism – you are too funny
Randal W Deese I may have missed the mark.. I think once counted, it is about 500, btw
Jerome Herrick Weymouth Some say their mother in laws!!!

1 Comment

  • Reply September 15, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    Will the Antichrist be born of a virgin?
    The Antichrist is presented in scripture as a complete counterfeit of the true Christ. As the

    counterfeit son, he would have a supernatural origin. He will literally be Satan’s son. II

    Thessalonians 2:9, “Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and

    signs and lying wonders.” The Antichrist will be fully human, yet totally possessed by Satan.

    We can also see prophecies in Revelation 17:15; Daniel 2 and 7, as well as Daniel 7:25; 9:27;
    Daniel 11:41-45 as well as II Thessalonians 2:4, “Who opposeth and exalteth himself above (A

    that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewin,

    himself that he is God.” And then there is Revelation 11:2, “But the court which is without the

    temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles; and that holy city shall

    they tread under foot forty and two months.” And Revelations 12:6, Revelations 13:7, “And i

    was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them and power was given h

    over all kindred, and tongues, and nations.”

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