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What is the MOST prominent topic in Systematic Theology for YOU?
Varnel Watson
Entire sanctification as done by the Holy Ghost in the Bible
Baptism with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues
No question about it Melvin Harter
Michael Todd Combs
What’s systematic theology?
Guy Caley
Not sure if serious.
Varnel Watson
Most Pentecostals wouldnt even know right?
T.K. Paris
You assert that “most Pentecostals” would not even know what Systematic Theology is. This is a false assertion, instead of making claims you can’t back up, you might be better off with asking questions. Remember that a closed mouth gathers no foot.
Varnel Watson
I wouldnt call it a false assertion at all
Would you tell us how one would KNOW systematic theology
without ever studying systematic theology under
systematic theology teachers and leaders?
Melvin Harter
Entire Sanctification, also known as Substantiation Sanctification or Instantaneous Sanctification, is the lost Doctrine of the Church. Early Modern Pentecostalism came from the Holiness Movement. However, in today’s society, it has been neglected and failed to be taught in our bible colleges until we have come to the point of absolutely no understanding of it whatsoever. Nevertheless, the
Doctrine of Entire Sanctification is still emphasized in the word of God as a second, definite experience for the believer. We are warned in Hebrews 12:14 should we fail to obtain such experience. In conclusion, I must state that HOLINESS IS THE RESULT OF A SANCTIFIED LIFE.
Bruce Weeks
That is exactly why we do not see the blind eyes open and the lame walk in the church today! The spirit behind the world is too attractive to the church.
Varnel Watson
Amen Bro Bruce We have Divine Propitiation that has found no human Substantiation in the church and therefore the signs, miracles, healing and deliverance provided by Christ in the Atonement of the Cross have seen no true realization among the People of God. But in the last days REVIVAL cometh and no devil, demon or evil spirit can stop it Joe Absher Brody Pope
Bruce Weeks
When we were children we were very close to eternity. The world had not corrupted our thoughts and influenced our actions to much degree, even though we were born sinners. Christ said as they brought him a child “such is the kingdom of God”. It is that pure child like faith that brings forth the kingdom. That’s why prayer and fasting is the keys to faith that moves mountains, cast out demons and heals the sick!
Melvin Harter
Bruce Weeks
Joe Absher
“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.”
– Colossians 3:1-3
Guy Caley
Without question it is the issue of Scriptural inspiration and authority. It is prior to everything else as the earlier answers here inadvertently demonstrate.
T.K. Paris
Christology
Varnel Watson
what does Christology mean?
T.K. Paris
Troy Day Christology, as defined in the setting of Bible Schools and Seminaries is: The study or systematic thinking about Christ (Jesus) as opposed to the more general study or reasoning about God.
Varnel Watson
So study or systematic thinking?
Why do you need all that?
Cant Christ himself reveal to you all there is there to know about Christology through His Spirit? Why trust teachers?
T.K. Paris
Troy Day That’s actually a good question and I think it would be good to explain it from the Spiritual and the Carnal positions. The Scriptures speak of there being a way which seems right to men, but the ends thereof are the ways of death. That is the result of Carnal thinking. Carnal comes from the root word Carne (meaning meat) thus to be carnally minded is to be a Meat head (sorry Archie but the term predates your show). When we rely on human reasoning we are on shakey ground. John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Jesus told the Disciples to baptize in the NAME of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. However not once in the Book of Acts does it state that they baptized anyone using those words. They Baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, the reason for that is made clear when you read Acts 4:10-12 and Colossians 3:17, And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him. One does not need to attend Seminary to deduce that the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ (at least in the English language). I spoke before of Cowboy Charlie and his walk with the Lord, he never attended Seminary but on his best day W.A. Chriswell could not have come close to expounding on the Word of God with the eloquence that that simple man had, his secret? He never went to Seminary to learn what men thought about Jesus…he went to his friend Jesus! He spent hours a day in prayer and studying the Word of God and the leading of the Holy Spirit. Seminarians spend a few hours a day in class and after class pouring over books about the Bible and ologies galore (Christology, Eschatology, Theology, etc.) so that they can be impressive among men. Charlie was a man who did not seek position among men but rather to increase in favor with God. I felt a leading to the Seminarians route, and Charlie encouraged me in that. But he also warned me not to let what men think sway me from what the Word of God says. I have studied many topics under many teachers, and have achieved Academic standings because of that, but those degrees and a dollar will get you a bottle of Pepsi, at the nearby Dollar General. Oh and don’t worry if you don’t have a degree the dollar will get the Pepsi anyway. You posed the question why trust teachers, the Holy Spirit is the teacher all we are is merely students, some of us are passing others are failing. Unlike you I have learned to study for myself and not to take the word of a man just because he has a large following, remember that Jesus never started a Church or a Seminary…He instead chose 12 men and taught them through relationship training not academic dogma.
Varnel Watson
I still dont understand how you can study Christology without actually studying it
It makes no theological sense
Jon Ruthven
The purpose for Jesus’ coming: His mission and message.
Varnel Watson
The purpose for Jesus’ second coming for a pre-Trib rapture
Philip Lazar
soteriology, pneumatology and eschatology.
Varnel Watson
thats a broad spectrum
Louise Cummings
I think the Jesus and the Ross is most important. Because without the Shedding Of Blood. There is no remission of sin. But now it can’t be just any blood. It has to be Spotless Blood Of Jesus Christ. I love studying all parts of the Bible. I guess it Pentecost, Healing ,The Church And Prophecy. I could name all through it’s great. I love the begat , running the line to see what person came from who. And how some got in the line Of Jesus.
Varnel Watson
who is the Ross?
Louise Cummings
Troy Day I didn’t mean to hit an R. I meant to hit a Cross. If it were not for the Cross. Jesus shedding His Blood for our sin And the Resurrection. There would be no forgiveness of sin. Sorry , for all the wrong letters I hit. I’ll try to watch closer.
Varnel Watson
I would still lean toward Spirit Baptism
Louise Cummings
I thought I mention Pentecost in with about at least three topics I mention. Seems like I mentioned healing , or Miracles. I was things I like to study. But the Cross and Pentecost, is the most important. I was thinking there couldn’t have been a Holy Ghost Outpouring , without first having the death on the Cross of Jesus. Because went away to send Him as a Comforter. And guide us into truth’s.
Varnel Watson
what do you find prominent in Pentecostalism today ?
Ricky Grimsley
Andrew Gabriel
Jordan Evans
RichardAnna Boyce
Terry Wiles
Jordan Evans
Eschatology and Soteriology have been my major focuses over the last two years of study and teaching.
I hold to primarily a Baptist soteriology, and a Pentecostal Pneumatology. So most of my teaching ministry is devoted to teaching grace, justification by faith, answering questions about eternal security, etc.
I’m also a Partial-Preterist and Amil in my eschatology, so a large portion of my ministry is dismantling dispensational views and responding to people like David Jeremiah, Perry Stone, John Haggee, etc.
Varnel Watson
now thats one BROAD bapticostal focus 🙂
Ricky Grimsley
Heresy
Jordan Evans
Ricky Grimsley which part?
Ricky Grimsley
Prominence
Jordan Evans
Ricky Grimsley oh that’s your focus ??? I thought you were calling me a heretic
Ricky Grimsley
No sorry
Ricky Grimsley
I don’t agree with the eschatology of any of the people you mention but preterism is crazy to me. So what is partial preterism as opposed to preterism
Jordan Evans
Ricky Grimsley partial-preterism (also called Orthodox Preterism) is the believe that part of the eschaton has already been fulfilled, in the sense that the Olivet Discourse was largely about the Destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD at the hands of the Romans.
Ricky Grimsley
So tell me this? Do you think that Matthew 24 and Luke 21 and Mark 13 are the same?
Jordan Evans
Ricky Grimsley absolutely – they’re called synoptics for a reason. They may have some differences, but so do most of the miraculous accounts throughout the Gospels.
Varnel Watson
An a-mil and pre-wrath walked into a bar…
I will let this one sink in for a while 🙂
Ricky Grimsley
Jordan Evans so even though Mark and Luke are in different places with different people and one records things before “nations shall rise against nation” and the other after “nation….”, you think they are the same?
Varnel Watson
Andrew Gabriel you paper gave ONLY 2 historic examples from a single mission in Toronto and called them abundance of evidence. Then about p19 it confirmed my initial statement with this straight forward
Such views likely would have been acceptable in the Canadian
context as well. The original statement of faith affirmed by PAOC
clergy appears to allow for diverse views regarding the relationship of
tongues and Spirit baptism. From 1928–1979, the section in the PAOC
Statement of Fundamental and Essential Truths concerning “the
Baptism of the Holy Ghost” included a section titled “Our Distinctive
Testimony,” which affirms, “the baptism of the Holy Spirit is
regularly accompanied by the initial physical sign of speaking in other
tongues as the Spirit of God gives the utterance.”1
RichardAnna Boyce
helping my AOG Bible students in their study of Hyper Grace, Free Grace and mixed grace; as that is what they are bombarded with on internet with the Grace Revolution.
Varnel Watson
Grace is free but hyper grace comes with a high price http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/what-is-hyper-grace-movementradical-grace/
RichardAnna Boyce
hyper grace is extreme super abundant grace Rom 5:17 For if by the trespass of the one (Adam), death reigned through the one (Adam), much more surely will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in [eternal] life through the One, Jesus Christ.
18 So then as through one trespass [Adam’s sin] there resulted condemnation for all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to [d]all men. 19 For just as through one man’s disobedience [his failure to hear, his carelessness] the many were made sinners, so through the obedience of the one Man the many will be made righteous and acceptable to God and brought into right standing with Him. 20 But the Law came to increase and expand [the awareness of] the trespass [by defining and unmasking sin]. But where sin increased, [God’s remarkable, gracious gift of] grace [His unmerited favor] has surpassed it and increased all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, so also grace would reign through righteousness which brings eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Footnotes:
Varnel Watson
Well, we now all know that but it wasnt as prominent of a teaching a few years back though probably still practiced by bapticostals
RichardAnna Boyce
2000 years
Varnel Watson
naaah – Jesus was no hyper nothing
BTW does water swirl the opposite way down yonder?
RichardAnna Boyce
Troy Day Jesus love for me when He died for me was as extreme, abundant, hype than anything imaginable. And if i hyper sin, His grace is hyper hyper to cover it brother.
RichardAnna Boyce
Troy Day we are up the right way, except i live in phils which is just north of the equator
Varnel Watson
Holy Ghost baptism with speaking in other tongues !
George Hartwell
The lost art of sanctification.
Varnel Watson
entire or progressive ?
George Hartwell
More progressive. Understanding the Wesleyan experience would help us but I believe that has been lost.
RichardAnna Boyce
Free Grace answer to rightly dividing JUSTIFICATION, SANCTIFICATION and GLORIFICATION; as it touches on OSAS and Lordship Salvation issues as well.
Jon Ruthven
The original mission and message of Jesus, that is, what he taught his disciples. See the forthcoming, Authentic Christianity.
Eddie Burdick
I have preached for missions in many churches and no presence of HolySpirit?why?
Louise Cummings
I think the Rapture for me. I know there’s many. But I think you can see even pointing to, even from the Old Testament.
Varnel Watson
I still think HS baptism after sanctification
RichardAnna Boyce
JESUS is GRACE and TRUTH.
Varnel Watson
will there be grace when you are left behind
Mike Partyka
Entire Sanctification seems to be the prominent discussion as of late. Biblically, BB Wakefield, Wesley have made this my recent study topic.
Varnel Watson
http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/back-to-the-basics-of-the-role-of-the-holy-spirit-in-entire-sanctification-in-the-writings-of-john-wesley/
Mike Partyka
Troy Day using Calvin’s definitions of regeneration and sanctification for this discussion. The issues that have come up the most and discussion are as follows. Thoughts do not mean sin. Without temptation there would only be sin. To the choose the path of the spirit and not the flesh at all times is possible…or is it? As we grow in sanctification (which I must say with all confidence is a process) we only become more clear of how far we fall short. The irony of “Perfectionism” is this though it seeks to distance itself from antinomianism, it inevitably comes full circle to it.
Varnel Watson
do NOT use Calvin – makes no sense
Neil Steven Lawrence
Christology
Varnel Watson
your christology with matter little when left behind
Steve Phifer
Worship in Spirit and Truth
Varnel Watson
cant worship jack after being left behind
Steve Phifer
True, but we will spend eternity worshiping in Spirit and in Truth!
Varnel Watson
pre-trib church rapture – nothing else matters
Andrew Drew Hiatt
Study of the Holy Trinity
Varnel Watson
some will be left behind to see the unholy trinity
William DeArteaga
I am like Paul, the immediate problems of the Church draw my attention
Joe Absher
Soteriology . maybe when youre done with the latest hype or scandal . just saying
Varnel Watson
Joe Absher soteriology matters little if left behind Lots of left behinds will discuss soteriology for 7 more years then
Joe Absher
Well I think maybe you showed your hand a little early on this one
Varnel Watson
those who wait to get sanctified till after the rapture will have NO hand to show for #JustSayin
RichardAnna Boyce
we are totally sanctified in the spirit when born again; being sanctified in soul as a believer; and will have a sanctified body in glory.
Varnel Watson
RichardAnna Boyce you know this is gnostic right?
Joe Absher
Well I thank you for asking . I was praying with men to come to Christ years before I heard of soteriology . for me it is the most prominent .
Rod White Sr.
Theology proper