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The Trump of God (1 Th. 4:16)This is not the same as the 7th trumpet of Rev. 11:15-13:18.
1. One occurs at the rapture of the church before Daniel’s 70th week (v 16; 2 Th. 2:7, note; Rev. 4:1,, note), and the other occurs at the rapture of he manchild in the middle of the 70th week (Rev. 11:15-13:18).
2. One is the trump of God (v 16), the other the trumpet of the 7th angel (Rev. 11:15);
3. one is to herald an event that will take place in a moment (1 Cor. 15:51-58), the other is to herald many events which are days in duration (Rev. 10:7; 11:15-13:18);
4. one is a trumpet of blessing (v 16-17), the other a trumpet of woe to men (Rev. 8:13; 11:15; 12:12);
5. one is before the 7 seals and first 6 trumpets of Rev. 6:1-9:21, the other is after these (Rev. 11:15). See note f, 1 Cor. 15:23.
John Kissinger [11/23/2015 9:25 AM]
5 CLEAR Biblical proofs Trump of God (1 Th. 4:16) is not the same as the 7th trumpet of Rev. 11:15-13:18. Ricky Grimsley Timothy Carter John B. Gaither John Conger Alan N Carla Smith Rick Wadholm Jr
John Conger [11/23/2015 9:32 AM]
Lol those aren’t proofs, just reiterating the belief. Kinda like ‘if I say it enough people will start to see it that way ‘.
John Kissinger [11/23/2015 9:33 AM]
? verses of the Bible – do you have different interpretation of the actual passages? For example, who do you say is the man-child?
John B. Gaither [11/23/2015 9:44 AM]
That’s pretty much what we’ve cut our teeth on.
John Conger [11/23/2015 9:52 AM]
144000 and saints. I believe they are taken up at 7th trumpet. D re agon follows and is cast down attacks Israel fulfilling matt 24 and Luke 21. They flee to Petra and protected dragon then makes war on all who turn to Christ. mark of beast etc.
John Conger [11/23/2015 9:56 AM]
Saying they happen at different times, then quoting the scriptures about the trumpets doesn’t show me anything other than the scriptures I already know
John Kissinger [11/23/2015 9:58 AM]
So John Conger you know that the Trump of God (1 Th. 4:16) is not the same as the 7th trumpet of Rev. 11:15-13:18?
Ricky Grimsley [11/23/2015 10:13 AM]
I just would like to point out again that when jesus lists the signs of his coming and the end of the age???? He doesnt start with the rapture. No list of events starts with the rapture.
John Kissinger [11/23/2015 10:14 AM]
Jesus was speaking to Jews from which the New Testament church and its rapture was a hidden mystery of the ages according to Paul
Ricky Grimsley [11/23/2015 10:16 AM]
So can i not “do all things through christ” because that was to the philipians?
John Conger [11/23/2015 10:19 AM]
No I know you keep saying it. But dakes argument are not convincing at all.
John Conger [11/23/2015 10:21 AM]
Ever feel like you’re trying to put a square peg in a round hole
John Kissinger [11/23/2015 10:23 AM]
Ricky Grimsley Were the Philippians Jews? John Conger Not Dake’s but the Bible’s. And BTW you cannot defeat an argument by simply saying the argument is not convincing 🙂 You have to at least show HOW and WHY the argument is not convincing OR propose a counter argument that defeats the original argument.
John Conger [11/23/2015 10:27 AM]
Ok. Just saying it happens at the beginning and the other (i.e. #1 ) doesn’t prove they do. Just saying the trump of God and the angels trump are different (i.e. #2) doesn’t mean they are. The “last trump” actually means the THE LAST TRUMPET. You don’t have to twist or contort words or meanings. It means what it says
John Kissinger [11/23/2015 10:50 AM]
John Conger you do have a valid point here. If we have to be honest the Rev. text does allude of a taking at that point, which some have contributed to a taking up from among the Israelites, but who can definitely tell, right? About the pre-trib #CHURCH rapture, however, we do have valid and solid BIblical proof as stated in the 5-point pre-trib church #rapture deference above
Ricky Grimsley [11/23/2015 10:52 AM]
Just like this. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-8 KJVS  Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: When do we get rest “when jesus comes with the angels” then gods wrath happens. #boom lol
John Conger [11/23/2015 10:56 AM]
Hope for pre prepare for post. Doubt any of us have all the right answers
John B. Gaither [11/23/2015 10:57 AM]
PreTrib also use Rev 4:1 – 4 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.” As this is where the Rapture takes place. We go from the State of the Church before the Rapture, then the Church/Bride are ushered into Heaven.
Alan N Carla Smith [11/23/2015 11:01 AM]
oh, but look at Rev 5:11-12 and look at WHO is being described as being around the throne. and IF the saints were raptured in Rev 4:1 they would be around the throne in this passage. right??
Ricky Grimsley [11/23/2015 11:11 AM]
Could there not be a bunch of saints already around the throne. lots of people have already went to be with the lord.
Alan N Carla Smith [11/23/2015 11:13 AM]
quite possibly… but in Rev 7:11-14 you hear the elder asking (who is always around the throne) “Who are these multitudes…. in white robes?” So, I ask who are these people that have suddenly shown up? I think the rapture happened in Rev. 7:9
John Kissinger [11/23/2015 11:34 AM]
Consulting Dake’s document above under title: “(5) Raptures in the 1 st Resurrection” The great multitude of tribulation saints who are saved after rapture, above, and during the whole of Daniel’s 70th week (Rev. 6:1-19:21). The first martyrs of this period are told to wait until the rest of them are killed (Rev. 6:9-11) when vengeance will be taken and all raptured in time for the marriage supper (Rev. 7:9-17; 15:2-4; 20:4-6). Even those killed by the beast in the last 3½ years of this week have part in the first resurrection (Rev. 20:4-6). This proves their rapture in time for the marriage supper (Rev. 19:1-10) and in time to come back with Christ (Rev. 19:11-21; Jude 1:14; Zech. 14:5).
John Conger [11/23/2015 12:33 PM]
I’m not sure how old you are but I’ve been reading dakes for more than 20 years. I know his arguments. Under this argument mid would also be in time for the marriage supper.
John Kissinger [11/23/2015 12:44 PM]
ad hominem? Let’s say I got my first Dake around 1990 after having owned original first prints of Scofield and Larkin for a while 🙂
Ricky Grimsley [11/23/2015 1:02 PM]