Click to join the conversation with over 500,000 Pentecostal believers and scholars
Click to get our FREE MOBILE APP and stay connected
Ava Reyes | PentecostalTheology.com
The children of Adam and Eve would have had no choice but to procreate with each other. Inbreeding causes genetic defects. The 50/500 rule states 50 of a given species is needed to ensure short-term stability in the gene pool & a minimum of 500 for long-term stability without causing massive irreversible damage to the gene pool and eventual extinction of the species. This means the story of Adam and Eve, and the story of Noah’s Ark are biologically impossible.
John Parker
There is a fatal flaw in this argument. Inbreeding does not actually cause genetic defects; it just allows them to surface because the more similar two parents are genetically the more likely it is that their mutations will match. The thing is, mutations accumulate over time, so basic math dictates that going back you would find fewer and fewer. Enter Adam and Eve, who would have had no mutations and thus no problem with inbreeding for a good many generations to come.
Jef Son
Read about the Genetic Adam and Eve by Dr. Swaminadass. It’s a peer reviewed journal.
Dan DeGroat
Cain simply “married” a sister. The gene pool was not yet polluted, as Cain and able were the first “born” humans. Sin’s consequence was immediate (banishment), but the corossive effect on genetic material wasn’t fully realized yet. Degredation happened over time . . . thus the inter-marriage prohibition.
Monique Riversong
Tsk tsk. You assume things today are the measure of things then. The gene pool was uncorrupted, and at there most diverse at the time of corrupt. We can see in the record of recorded ages and decline, rapidly, after the flood. Prohibitions on marrying too close to parental line was introduced at a later stage. Abraham and Sarah shared close blood lines, Lot and his daughter. When the law was introduced, the genetic pool needed protection. And we still see human DNA degrading today. Research into this degradation is saying that eventually human being might notl be unable to procreate naturally because the Y chromosome is deteriorating “rapidly”.
Delia Delgado
Actually read Genesis especially Genesis 5 where it has the genealogy of Adam… Adam and Eve had more children especially more women. Seth was their 3rd son after Abel was killed by Cain. It’s a myth that they only had 2 sons.
Adam Floyd
Literally every serious interpretation of Genesis avoids this problem. From theistic evolution to Adam and Eve not being the only humans to Adam and Eve having perfect genes.
No dice.
Peter Whiteman
The creation before the fall and the flood was much different
They were the perfect people with no flaws
Mong Santiago
I’m not in depth with biology but could macro-evolution have avoided this?
Eliza Kingsley
Honnestly, slowly we can see the mutations in the different expression of skin colour, eye colour, hair colour and texture.. Imbreeding wasn’t dangerous then, it was a requirement (I remember asking my mum this question as a little girl and mum said god made more people but the bible doesn’t say that). Nowadays inbreeding is not ok, worse mutations happen now; Intellectual disabilities, death, physical disabilities.
Fun Fact: the reason that Pharoh Tutankhamen could not procreate was because he was married to his sister, he had 3 babies all still births due to genetic defects..
Ava Reyes
According to various Abrahamic traditions, Awan (also Avan or Aven, from Hebrew אָוֶן aven “vice”, “iniquity”, “potency”) was the wife and sister of Cain and the daughter of Adam and Eve. In the Book of Jubilees she is called Awan; however, in other Abrahamic texts she is called Jumelia.
Ava Reyes
You can’t just say Adam and Eve have perfect genes, and expect that to be the end of it, you have to prove it, and I expect credible scientific sources for information not these pseudo-scientific Christian blogs, books, websites and YouTube videos.
Jesse Johnson
I would suspect that people who lived 900 years would have more resilient genetics then we do today.
Bill Brannon
This is a dumb argument even for non believers. With God all things are possible but even if that weren’t true. The premise of the argument is that Adam and Eve are the beginning of life hence no genetic breakdown yet. (By the way for the non believer to make this argument they have to concede God created Adam and Eve) as for Noah. Each of the sons had their own wives and we don’t k ow the genetic makeup but there certainly could have been enough variation to not cause problems and by the way we don’t k ow at whatpoinr the breakdown became a problem but Mosaic law was when they were commanded not to marry close relatives and that was way after Noah
Adam Floyd
That’s four posts now.
Can’t you come up with something difficult?, Ava?
Ava Reyes
That’s four posts that you’ve given me known pseudo-scientific apologetic propaganda.
The science is on my side.
Adam Floyd
Ava Reyes
This article from the science journal “Bio-Complexity,” written by two credentialed biologists demonstrates that descent from two individuals is not precluded by genetic science.
“Genetic Modeling of Human History Part 1: Comparison of Common Descent and Unique Origin Approaches
Ola Hössjer, Ann K. Gauger, Colin Reeves”
You may find the article at bio-complexity’s website. It’s free to view .
Adam Floyd
Ava Reyes here is a rundown of theistic evolution from an organization spearheaded by Dr. Francis Collins, the scientist who mapped the human genome during the Clinton Administration. Simply scanning the summary should make it clear to you how this model avoids the problem you’re describing.
https://biologos.org/articles/series/science-and-the-bible/theistic-evolution-history-and-beliefs
Adam Floyd
Ava Reyes here’s an article in USA Today by Dr. Nathan Lents, a SECULAR professor of biology who reviews the book “The Genealogical Adam and Eve” written by Dr. Joshua Swamidass, a physician and genome scientist about the prospect of genetically descending from two humans. This book was subject to open peer review, including review by Alan Templeton, who is at the top of his field in population genetics.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/10/04/upcoming-book-leaves-scientific-possibility-existence-adam-eve-column/3826195002/
Ava Reyes
Sorry, but the story of Adam and Eve and the story of Noah’s Ark is genetically impossible.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0169534712001620
Daniel Helfer
So nothing creating everything including intelligent life by random processes seems believable for you ?
Adam Monty
These are fictional allegorical stories that shouldn’t be taken as history.
So what?
Martin David Alig
Was Adam and Eve black or white ?
Robert Conrad
Ava Reyes. Your looking at it from today’s medical data.Adam and eve and children lived closer in time to the creation.And the effects of the fall wouldn’t have time to effect mankind yet.The effects of marrying relatives would not have effected them yet.As the effects of the fall wouldn’t have completely effected their bodies yet.
Lorna Aniwasal Kihel Borbon
If Christianity is TRUE, would you believe? For those who just chose NOT to believe, no matter how many evidences available infront of them they just brushed them off, like Richard Dawkins
Cip Art
When God created man ,He said that it is verry good what i have done.That means man was perfect withouth any genetic problems.Those problems came a lot later after the fall of man.
Paul Gray
Let’s disregard traditional teachings and look at what scripture says! Shortly after Adam and Eve had sons they found wives. In chapter 6 the sons of God were mixing with other people. Either Adam and Eve weren’t the first created or they weren’t the only created people. Notice : lucifer walked into the garden and talked with Eve. The book of Isaiah calls Saran a man. Serpent (I believe) is referring to his nature. Just like other metaphors throughout scripture sheep, goats, dogs, swine, trees , clouds, etc….The word replenish is used when God told Adam and Eve to replenish which indicates that it already had people who had possibly lost their good standing with God or their first estate.
Ava Reyes
DNA & RNA self-replicates through a process called base pairing. Single-celled life forms split themselves in two in order to self replicate. There is no problem with inbreeding, because there is no breeding.
Ava Reyes
Farmers don’t inbreed their livestock.
Ava Reyes
Once again, a belief in the Bible requires a complete denial of observable scientific facts.
Brian Cathy Gray
GIGO!!
The Bible is the history and ultimate plan for a relationship. Reading it to prove or refute scientific theories is like using a biography of Henry Ford to diagnose and repair a Ford Truck.
Ava Reyes
800 year old men having children.
And people wonder why I don’t believe?
Macy Carolina
Genetically mutations increase with each generation, this is due to sin. However, the first generations wouldn’t have had many mutations in their gene pool. God later forbids incest in Leviticus because it wasn’t a necessity then for close family members to procreate. Please don’t base whether you accept the truth or not on simple things such as these
Collin Lutz
Better than evolving from who knows what…….
Ava Reyes
Conspiracy / pseudoscience
Factual Reporting LOW
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/institute-for-creation-research-icr/
Brent Waters
And its funny you say this doesn’t makes sense yet believe everything came from nothing how does that make any sense?
Duncan Macpherson
Yes. It isn’t history.
Bill Brannon
Alas, I really have to bow out. I can no longer continue this enlongated conversation. Let me be clear Ava Reyes and Adam Monty I do NOT hate you, and I wish you the best. I hope you find the truth you need and are so desperately looking for (while fighting against it)
Ava Reyes
I look to science and nature for truth and spirituality. I use the term spirituality metaphorically to describe peace and balance in my life.
Patrick Boren
Well inbreeding in a corrupted gene pool can cause issues. However we are not talking apples to apples here, no pun intended. The gene pool was pure and did not get corrupted by the sun’s harmful radiation until after the flood. You have a pretty clean line in the children of Noah.
Alberto F. Gonzalez
Ava Reyes
If you had the task of teaching Humanity of 10,000 years ago the story of creation, how would you do it?
Samuel Salinas
https://m.facebook.com/groups/454383855436?view=permalink&id=10163122620140437
If you wanna check this out.
Samuel Salinas
We’ll do or say anything to discredit God so as to justify ourselves; but in the end, we run smack dab in to the Truth, and we’re like, dag.
Why, oh thou Truth, why!?
Because He keeps it real.
Joy Sinnathamby
ha ha. this is the favourite of all athiests. they think Christians shrink from this delicate subject. a baaaad God who allows incest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQJYPLeLB3U&t=45s
Joy Sinnathamby
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGTdIvYQjCc
Joy Sinnathamby
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82Q74N4IMBE
Rick Hawkins
The gene pool was much more pure back then so the 50/500 rule did not apply.
Isaiah Su
@Ava. Yes. You’re right. This problem in the gene pool happens, BUT it was not as worse during the first generations. God only start forbidding it during the exodus. (1400+ B.C. / 2200+ After Adam was created). (Please do read the Bible in whole not in part).
The God of the Bible already knew what will be the future problem long before anyone would dare to question Him.
Now supposedly, IF this never happened, then please state YOUR position of what do you think had happened.
Please also provide scientifically, logically, rationally, and existentially evidences that would convince us to think like you.
I appreciate your respond. Thank you.
Neil Landers
?♂️
Adam Monty
Lol the comments are ridiculous and grossly unscientific and unfounded.
These are stories people.
Floyd Vaz
What is impossible for man is not a problem for God. The creation of Adam from the ‘dust’ and Eve from the ‘rib’ of Adam should have made clear the realm in which God operates.