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Ricky Grimsley | PentecostalTheology.com
Since i think we can all see how america is turning, should churches stop being 501c 3’s and start paying taxes to insulate ourselves from the coming “discrimination” over gay marriage and hiring “non-christians”? Ay thoughts or suggestions?
Carl Murphy
You can protect yourself and church by writing in your bylaws that no marriage will be performed unless both parties are members in good standing and sign a profession of faith, which means the pastor does not conduct nor the building used except by members etc. you can also write it for employees. That is the recommendations of our church attorney. Like the Quakers and the draft they must be sincerely held beliefs of the church and no exceptions, not even for a board members daughter that is a non believer
Ricky Grimsley
What about “hate speech” stuff like preaching homosexuality is a a sin? Isnt their a law about 501c3 speaking out against things like that?
Michael Kelly Banks
I don’t think there is a clear cut answer except that churches should honor God and His word and His presence above all else.
So wether remaining a 501c3 and challenging what that means or paying taxes for more freedom to speak freely.
If not being a 501c3 becomes a movement it will be important for churches not to judge and disassociate with churches that don’t choose to do things the same way. Some will be called to change and some won’t. Both can be affective.
Carl Murphy
I do not know, the only thing I know is prohibited is politics. That’s the difference in saying a gay is going to hell and saying a Catholic is?
David Lewayne Porter
I don’t believe we (The Church) will have to make that choice.
I believe that the government will make it for us. But writing the clauses into the local by laws is strongly recommended as well.
In addition to the by laws there has to be a written record kept of the minutes from an offically called church meeting with the motion, second, vote tally, and then list of attendees.
Varnel Watson
http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/perry-stone-100-house-members-to-support-a-bill-to-outlaw-churches-and-ministers-to-say-gay-lifestyle-is-sin/
Michael Postlethwait
If we give into that, then governments could fashion policies that favor some churches over others based on their core beliefs.
Ricky Grimsley
Yep
Stan Wayne
Churches are not 501.c.3
John Conger
Churches incorporate as 501c3 all the time.
Stan Wayne
Churches incorporate – they do not need 501.c.3 because churches are authorized by the IRS to give tax deductible receipts without 501.c.3 merely by being incorporated in their state as a church
Stan Wayne
Incorporation in the state gives the right to claim state property tax exemption like a library or park or school or whatever –
John Conger
No. A church is tax exempt on property tax without 501c3. I was a pastor for almost a decade and pastored when the cog gave us the option to incorporate. I declined. We never paid property tax on our church grounds. We actually owned several acres of brush that we did pay property tax on because we did not use it for religious purposes. A few years into it we started using it for boys camping and pioneers for Christ ministry and that allowed us to no longer pay property taxes on it.
Carl Murphy
Crazy not to incorporate, church gets sued individual members are responsible, incorporating creates a legal identity
Ricky Grimsley
With the irs as its legal head instead of jesus?
Carl Murphy
Again, don’t incorporate and let some kid fall in your parking lot, every member is liable. Also your pastor may want to talk to a tax advisor about housing and other benefits allowed to ministers
Ricky Grimsley
Insurance?
John Conger
we had insurance to cover that and never incorporated. my mother in law fell in a braums where the floor had just been mopped and no wet floor signs were out. broke her hip. lawyer said they arent as easy to win as people think. he told her people have a reaponsibilty to watch where they walk. guess it depends on where you live
Carl Murphy
It is as good as your auto or home insurance, get a verdict for more than the coverages the members will be responsible
Carl Murphy
It also depends on the opposing attorney, why take a chance when 300 dollars will incorporate you?
John Conger
we were also covered by denomination insurance not to mention if someone did get a judgement there is no inforcement of judgement. but this is still a moot point. i never saw any legal protection from a 501c3. where are you getting this?
Ricky Grimsley
Does it matter what you get if its a giant trap?
Varnel Watson
Corey Forsyth Having registered several 503 / LLC since the Tea Party non-profit scandals, it costs much more than just $300 to incorporate anymore.
First off, you have to register it with your state ~$100 in fees alone
Your registration for charitable solicitation is additional $50
Plus you have to register a deed with your county appraiser’s office before you can proceed to a federal IRS tax exempt status as a corporation
EIN has to be acquired before you can do anything additional. It does not cost anything. You can even get it online or over the phone, but you need to have it and be approved for it before you can proceed. IRS requires specific language in the articles of incorporation (in IRS Pub 557) to qualify for 501(c)(3) federal tax exemption. These provisions are not always included in state articles of incorporation templates.
Application for 501(c) ranges between $400 and $850 (if you will operate above $10,000) and 1023-EZ takes between 3-6 months (maybe even more)
If you do it alone, IRS projects 100+ hours of preparation time for a first-time applicant, that’s excluding calling them for case specific information on each individual registration
If you decide to use online, template-based services it costs about $500-$600 in fees
If you use a CPA or attorney who specialize in nonprofit organizations, it will be $2,500–5,000+ to prepare IRS 1023 applications for a SMALL organization. The application could then be denied and in need to re-file
First year tax prepayment for the privilege of doing business as a corporation ranges from $800 to $1,000. Furthermore, Corporations are required to pay between $50 and $200 in government filing fees. Mandatory meetings for board of directors adds additional costs. And this is just for starters.
Brotherhood Mutual has proposed a much cheaper protection: http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/4-steps-to-avoid-a-lawsuit-after-u-s-supreme-courts-decision-on-same-sex-marriage/
Carl Murphy
You can also pay the sticker price for a car.
Carl Murphy
But 501c3 and incorporation as a legal entity are two separate actions. One is for tax purposes the other for legal liability purposes.
Link Hudson
Around 2009 or 2010 or so, I heard a man on Christian radio. Some of the things he said jibed with some things I believed the Lord showed me. I contacted the radio station, had an email forwarded to him, and invited him over for dinner.
During our conversation, he said that the Lord had shown him that many of the churches that, at that time, we did not think would cave to the ‘gay’ agenda, would do so. He said the government was going to use taxes to pressure churches to comply with such things as hiring homosexuals, and that many churches would go along with it to keep their property. He also saw many people of God leaving these institutions.
Get ready to lose your buildings if you have to and meet in homes.
Nina Mindova
http://art-nina.weebly.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
Ricky Grimsley
Yes
Gilberto Rosado
Churches are not required to register with any Government agency. If you do, you are also obligated to submit to authority extra-church. FYI
David Lewayne Porter
They will give up their status or they will become a politically correct arm and extension of the government.
Eva Benevento
Why should churches pay taxes on monies that have already been taxed? The point of 501c3 is to give donors tax receipts so they can deduct the amounts from their income taxes. Taking away that status would only remove that tax break from donors. Taking it away may put people in the position of rethinking why they give.
David Lewayne Porter
Eva
It is the same reason as paying income tax on what we earn and then sales tax on what we buy with thst same money.
Add in property taxes in order to keep what we have purchased…..
Never ending cycle.
Charlie Robin
David Lewayne Porter Would this be each local church decision or a corporate one?
David Lewayne Porter
For the denominational I am guessing their main offices, individual churches would be locally.
For those incorporated and under a denomination it could go either way if they had the funds to do so.
Dennis Lear
No. We are always only 1 law away from another attack on churches. Whether it is to tap into the Lord’s money or to try to shape our beliefs. Toe the line in unison. If we start paying to keep the government out of our business, history reveals they will ALWAYS come back for more.
David Lewayne Porter
It will happen,
Just wait for it.
Charlie Robin
Some denominations are asking local churches to incorporate under separate chapter for both insurance and loan/credit purposes
Ricky Grimsley
Yes churches should stop being 501c3. There are legally not churches anymore tax exempt corporations whose legal head is the irs. Sounds blasphemous.
Stan Wayne
Churches are not 501.c.3
Their donations can count as tax deductible without 501.c.3 merely by being incorporated as a church
Ricky Grimsley
I mean the churches that are 501c3 should stop being 501 c3
Stan Wayne
Hardly any are because they don’t need to be
Stan Wayne
Para church org needs 501.c.3 not churches
Tony Conger
Los of churches are 501c3 and yes they should stop.
Stan Wayne
Please Google or ask a lawyer if Churches need to, bother to, are or will be 501.c3 – it is not done – I am a lawyer doing 501.c.3s
Tony Conger
Not sure what you’re reading but no one on here is saying they need to be
Ricky Grimsley
My church is.
Tony Conger
Church of God gave permission to all churches to become 501c3
Cor Leonis Johnson
I think we should wait and see what the courts look like in 3 or 4 years.
Ricky Grimsley
The courts are irrelevant if legal head of your church is the irs and not jesus.
Stan Wayne
Failure to communicate here – big time – no church needs to be 501c.3 to get the benefits that a parachurch organization that is 501c.3 gets. They just need state incorporation. No relationship with IRS is necessary – that is strictly the donor and his giving receipt issue
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams Jim Price given your last post about overspending by church and pastors what say ye?
Eddie Burdick
If we ever get a democrat in office I think 8 love change that church will be taxed
Philip Williams
Eddie Burdick commercial enterprises like the most outwardly successful churches ought to be taxed just like other businesses.
Ron Hamm
Every person who gives regularly to charity has already paid taxes before they give of what is left. To tax a non profit is a double tax.
Steve Losee
501c3 is a charitable organization, exempt from taxation as an entity. Churces oten become dpeendent on this to maintain their largely unnecessary facilities, and local & state govts have threatened to revoke those of ministries that are faithful to Scripture. So yes, we should get rid of them and function without them.
Casius Leonidas
If it’s a matter of government interference that’s one thing.
If it’s to grow a mega church like a corporation, to avoid running afoul of the IRS (like Olsteen did), then I’d say no.
Salvatore Tropea Sr
6 more years of President Trump
and then The Rapture before the American persecution begins so let’s keep the deduction for now. It helps widowers as I to give more to the Church while lowering my taxable income!
Varnel Watson
Ricky Grimsley has it always been the plan to control 501c3 churches.?
Neil Steven Lawrence
Create a lobby in Washington that insists on tax free status and free speech and religious independence. It would be way bigger than the National Rifle Association and way more powerful. We do not have to roll over and die.
Now is the time for wimpy Christians to become Warriors! I think we should stand up and preach against homosexuality more vibrantly and with greater determination. Maybe we could be like John Wesley and save our country from chaos and revolution!
If I come back to the states and minister there I will not shrink back from denouncing homosexuality – I don’t on Facebook! Like God I despise homosexual behavior! We should never allow less than 1% of the population to determine the future of the majority.
Robert Erwine
sounds like something someone on the downlow would say .
Andrew T. Stube
yup just do a profit and loss
Varnel Watson
seems like we are going this way Neil Steven Lawrence Robert Erwine
Shane Bellamy
Be an at home church were everyone is volunteering and nobody is being paid.
Make no business out of church and there would be no reason to register for tax breaks.
Just a few friends coming together sharing a common interest and a place to bring new friends along to share the gospel to them.
RichardAnna Boyce
Yes as you cant serve God and mammon.
Varnel Watson
are churches tax free in Auzzie land?
Varnel Watson
here we go Daniel J Hesse Ricky Grimsley deep state 9 https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/6yajyi/if_you_want_to_add_an_extra_71_billion_to_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Steve Forsberg
I suspect that about half of Pentecostal churches have bi-vocational senior pastors. Many Pentecostal churches are struggling financially. If they had to pay taxes, many would have to close.
Varnel Watson
thus sayeth DC http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/is-trump-tax-reform-good-for-clergymen-and-churches/
James Michael Sanders
I’m a Pastor of a small country Pentecostal Church and we are able to pay the normal expenses and meet needs. I also am bi-vocational I simply have to be and always have been. However if taxes got involved at this point we would probably have to meet without a building etc. I of course could be wrong, definitely not saying God can’t meet the needs.
But I certainly believe the church should be a 501c unless they do away with it all together for every non profit organization. I believe we as Christians are also American citizens and should use our legal rights just like every other American citizen.
Varnel Watson
this is true for so many churches in America today
Steve Losee
I think so. Too many govt groups have used it as a threat when the ministry gets dependent on it. So let’s tell them to keep it & get on with the job.
Varnel Watson
well Steve Losee but pls tell us as a Trump supporter Chris Westerman WHY is it that this happens UNDER the great and very much winning in everything current POTUS? Why is it also that CA is voting on a bill to limit preachers for calling gay ppl out for repentance? Nelson Banuchi Joe Absher
Steve Losee
I believe Christians have a respite right now, though even a president should be limited in what he can do. At this point we’re being challenged at a state & local level. But I’m afraid that will change, either next year or 4 years hence, and we should should be ready to continue without the govt’s help.
Varnel Watson
I dont know HOW you can say that Steve Losee the CHURCH in America at least today is in its worst shape in centuries http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/jezebel-spirit-waging-war-against-america/
Steve Losee
I totally agree. I think you missed my point. I was referring to outside persecution, not internal condition.
Varnel Watson
Steve Losee what was your point missed? http://ourcog.org/perry-stone-100-house-members-to-support-a-bill-to-outlaw-churches-and-ministers-to-say-gay-lifestyle-is-sin/?fbclid=IwAR1xdjZAkpBdk4CkvtSaKTrX-a4vy3WkDVftiIU0mTVgpK7Ar0A7OFBmYp0
Steve Losee
I was referring to outside persecution, not internal condition.
Varnel Watson
Steve Losee I dont believe it was missed as a point in my comment Just read here https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/todd-starnes-california-dems-prepare-for-crackdown-on-churches?fbclid=IwAR0N4gmalJ1jYKWTvu7Rh-LF_sdOKIJuGP4qoEDfdPz7FjUGjlp8s6bbONU
Steve Losee
Arew we still discussing 501c-3 status?
Varnel Watson
Steve Losee Yes we are This CA Bill is directly related to the state approval of 501c-3 status; both the political 501s and the religious ones under the same IRS provision https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/todd-starnes-california-dems-prepare-for-crackdown-on-churches?fbclid=IwAR0N4gmalJ1jYKWTvu7Rh-LF_sdOKIJuGP4qoEDfdPz7FjUGjlp8s6bbONU
Steve Losee
Rit! Whic why I say we should tell the govt to keep its status, pay the tax & preach the truth
Varnel Watson
Steve Losee Assembly Bill 2943, authored by Democratic Assemblyman Evan Low, would utilize the states existing consumer fraud statute to classify gay conversion therapy as a fraudulent practice meaning taxation Joe Absher long ago pointed to a similar attack in WI but now he has to fight the same thing while preaching in CA
Steve Losee
It’s their toe in the door. Actually, there are a lot of things they want us to shut up about.
Varnel Watson
Steve Losee goes against your earlier statement that the church is under attack only internally – it aint so
Steve Losee
I didn’t say that, and I don’t believe it.
Varnel Watson
Steve Losee hm? what did you say?
Steve Losee
I said that I was referring only to persecution from outside the church. Internal issues are a different matter.
Varnel Watson
Ricky Grimsley Ray E Horton Jim Price Joe Absher
BY ACCEPTING FEDERAL AID, RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS MAY SUBJECT THEMSELVES TO STATE LAW MANDATES.
Under some state laws, acceptance of government aid – even federal aid – triggers new legal obligations and restrictions. For example, the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act (CADA) generally prohibits employers from discriminating on the basis of religion, sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity. CADA expressly exempts “any religious organization” from these requirements. But the exemption is lost if the organization “is supported in whole or in part by money raised by taxation or public borrowing.” C.R.S. § 24-34-402(7).
Even without this exemption, CADA still permits religious organizations to select employees based upon religious preference. But as with Title VII, this may not permit an employer to discriminate based on other protected classes, such as sexual orientation and gender identity.
Most Colorado churches and ministries aren’t subject to CADA because they’re not supported by government aid. But accepting PPP or EIDL loans could change that and cause an organization to lose at least some of its religious exemption.
BE CAREFUL
Many religious organizations find themselves in dire straits as a result of this crisis. And each will have to balance the economic threat to their operations with the legal risks that come with accepting the government’s help. Every church and ministry will have decide for itself how to strike that balance. But each should go into it with eyes wide open, mindful of the potential costs to their mission and values. As always, you should consult with an attorney regarding your specific situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NhKH91nvJg&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3_Hqh8KmCrHvi8KJBTO8aKaPJ0ifa76Zurzmqi5o5WGPCUjFk2q3jOOIs
Ray E Horton
Probably so!
Varnel Watson
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NHWvkX82qVWQ9iU7ByvArkt_HaEGDkA2/view?fbclid=IwAR1n4FNU0ezdRS_lIR_2eN4oSiFqfOE2-kGymv1JawsZqTbx7fBLQ45Xy6c
Jared Cheshire
Yes.
Robert Cox
I revoked our 501c3 several yrs ago.
Varnel Watson
Robert Cox are you cog? how could you do that?
Robert Cox
Troy Day
We were AG, then PCG
Independent since 2015
Varnel Watson
Robert Cox I see – so you revoked your whole employee ID with IRS or just on local state / county level?
Robert Cox
Troy Day yes
Robert Cox
Both
Varnel Watson
Robert Cox So see Doyle Rogers and others from COG or our AG cant just do that because needs to be revoked on the national and international level like HQ denominational which IF did that will stop operating as a whole
Robert Cox
Troy Day
Well, before we “dis-affiliated” from the AG, we were not a 501c3 church. It was only after we got the AG out of it that we did a LLC bc the lawyer suggested it. Lasted about 5 yrs before I got rid of it.
The church CAN operate under the 501c3 of a denomination, but it doesn’t have to. I didn’t when we were PCG either.
Varnel Watson
Robert Cox I will not ask why you “dis-affiliated”
Robert Cox
Troy Day
No problem. I wanted to get married and if had a preconversion divorce. That was a problem with the NTX of the AG at that time. So I quit and had to take the church out of fellowship with them. It cost us 70k to pay the NTX to leave us alone. In a church where the AG didn’t have a dime invested.
Daniel J Hesse
Robert Cox God bless you!
Varnel Watson
Daniel J Hesse how would AG get tax free ?
Daniel J Hesse
Troy Day i can’t speak to this question. God bless you.
Steve Losee
YES! Take away that power from an increasingly hostile government
Varnel Watson
but how can they do that – there is no way
Steve Losee
by NOT being 501c3. Then they can’t threaten to take it away after we become dependent on it.
Jared Cheshire
Here is how a ownership of a 501c3 works. First a little context. I used to think a 501c3 was a great thing. I saw it as a protection from government just like a corporation. Corporations predate our government and have always been a way to limit liability and government intrusion into your business. It had aways been presented to me that a 501c3 was similar but added protection from taxation as well. When I decided to start my Security business, I considered also starting a 501c3 as I do a lot of free security for churches and wanted to be able to take donations from those with means to be able to help the small churches without means. What I found out is that while a corporation is an independent entity that the one/ones who starts it controls, a 501c3 is wholy owned by the state, and the one who started it or the board are only the managers. That effectively makes the government the head of your 501c3.
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Ephesians 5:23 KJV
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1 Corinthians 11:3 KJV
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Ephesians 4:15 KJV
So if Christ is our head, and the head of the church, and we dishonor our head by preaching or praying with our head covered, the we are dishonoring Christ when we cover Him with the government as the head of our church if it is a 501c3. Putting the government in headship is out of God’s order!
Varnel Watson
Jared Cheshire you could be 501 without the c3 you know You could be a non -prof just on state level with deed in the county
Varnel Watson
SO Mark Lloyd do you believe churches in US should STOP being 501c3 for reasons you posted in previous comments As govt gives PPP loans churches MUST abide under local legal rulings
BY ACCEPTING FEDERAL AID, RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS MAY SUBJECT THEMSELVES TO STATE LAW MANDATES.
Under some state laws, acceptance of government aid – even federal aid – triggers new legal obligations and restrictions. For example, the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act (CADA) generally prohibits employers from discriminating on the basis of religion, sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity. CADA expressly exempts “any religious organization” from these requirements. But the exemption is lost if the organization “is supported in whole or in part by money raised by taxation or public borrowing.” C.R.S. § 24-34-402(7).
Even without this exemption, CADA still permits religious organizations to select employees based upon religious preference. But as with Title VII, this may not permit an employer to discriminate based on other protected classes, such as sexual orientation and gender identity.
Most Colorado churches and ministries aren’t subject to CADA because they’re not supported by government aid. But accepting PPP or EIDL loans could change that and cause an organization to lose at least some of its religious exemption.
BE CAREFUL
Many religious organizations find themselves in dire straits as a result of this crisis. And each will have to balance the economic threat to their operations with the legal risks that come with accepting the government’s help. Every church and ministry will have decide for itself how to strike that balance. But each should go into it with eyes wide open, mindful of the potential costs to their mission and values. As always, you should consult with an attorney regarding your specific situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NhKH91nvJg&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3_Hqh8KmCrHvi8KJBTO8aKaPJ0ifa76Zurzmqi5o5WGPCUjFk2q3jOOIs
Anonymous
Leonard Harris
It’s way worse than taxes.
Id say this is about right Terry Wiles Link Hudson Neil Steven Lawrence
Anonymous
Troy Day true, government should never tax institutions that freely give back to the community… I believe that would make us ESSENTIAL ! 
Anonymous
Ben Bottke
What certain conversations is it relevant to?
Anonymous
Jamie Brown Just a question since I know there are ministers in this group…
Ministers who receive a salary from a non-profit organization like a church still have to pay taxes on their personal income right?
Like the salary isn’t tax free?
I don’t know but it’s just something that is relevant in certain conversations.
Anonymous
Jamie Brown what about all the PPP loans churches got? Robert Cox
Anonymous
Candice N Jesse Nix
I know people who refuse to pay tithes because the church sends them a tax write off sheet for their paid in tithes..so basically they decided not to pay tithes anymore.
Anonymous
Troy Day whoever does that is not thinking straight .
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence been trying to tell Link Hudson about the same
Anonymous
Troy Day your last ccomment makes no sense. Maybe you are confusing me with another poster.
Anonymous
Stephen Mills
They are considered employees for income tax but self/employed for social security.
Anonymous
@Derek Godfrey
Yes, they still have to pay income tax. Some may opt out of paying Social Security, but then they don’t get it when they retire. That’s how it used to be and they could also claim a housing allowance if they owned their own home. I do not know if any of this has changed over the years, but income taxes were always still required.
Anonymous
Roger Lewis
The housing allowance is income tax free but not self-employment tax free.
Anonymous
Thats about the ONLY practical TRUE comment Ive read in this OP Link Hudson You canNOT look up the tax forms from the IRS on how they tax clergy. I challenge you to SHOW where and how cause I have had multiple church/clergy filing different from each other. The statement you made can be made ONLY by a person who have never been in ministry or missions and filed taxes as such Neil Steven Lawrence will tell ya the same thing
Anonymous
Troy Day not income tax free, deductable. It still has to.be reported.
Anonymous
Troy Day why are you tagging g me on that? I don’t care to look at IRS forms unless I have a good reason.
Anonymous
Link Hudson I tagged @everyone cause it is important. Surely youVE filed as a missionary at one time or another like Neil Steven Lawrence and have extensive knowledge on the process I know from an expert THAT except if you file as a full time minister IRS counts your ministry as a hobby
Anonymous
Terry Wiles what Ive been trying to tell Link Hudson all morning long
Anonymous
Terry Wiles Roger Lewis also the HOUSING allowance became big with 1099 ministers a few years back like around the Pandemic or before it I cant really remember BUT then it got dropped because too many free lancer ministers were counting love offerings over $600 as HOUSING allowance and that got out of whack but surely Link Hudson has operated in some such manner and knows it
Anonymous
Troy Day true
Anonymous
Troy Day could you please not fo the everyone thing it is very rude.
Anonymous
Troy Day one has to declare a housing allowance in advance every year and have it affirmed by their overseeing board of directors.
An excellent book by Richard Hammer gives details and examples of the legal requirements.
Anonymous
Junior Beasley this 1 is important
Anonymous
Troy Day managed never to report income as clergy income. I have gotten love offerings here and there but I have worked to support myself and ministry efforts
Anonymous
I am reminded by this scripture…in Matthew 22:20-22
King James Version
20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
21 They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.
22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.
Anonymous
https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/should-education-be-mandatory-for-young-pentecostal-ministers/
Anonymous
Marty Lawson https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/should-education-be-mandatory-for-young-pentecostal-ministers/
Anonymous
Malcolm Brubaker https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/should-education-be-mandatory-for-young-pentecostal-ministers/
Anonymous
Link Hudson NOT sure that is legal any more Few years back reporting AS cash for housing worked Neil Steven Lawrence Terry Wiles but anyone who took PPP or govt checks for families during the pandemix failed into the tax trap
Anonymous
Troy Day I haven’t had to worry about clergy housing allowance or clergy housing on tax returns. We might have done income from activities not engaged in for profit.
Anonymous
Link Hudson sorry to hear that from a non clergy
Anonymous
what if they get paid via a grant from the pro-gay Lilly foundation? John Mushenhouse Alan Smith Philip Williams Terry Wiles
Anonymous
Theodore Ballard
Yes, a Pastor’s salary, whether as an employee who receives a W-2, or whether considered self-employed receiving a Form 1099, taxes are required on that income
Anonymous
most pastors DO NOT receive a regular w-2 but 1099 which creates the mess Link Hudson Roger Lewis and if they work in another country is even bigger mess Neil Steven Lawrence can tell ya
Anonymous
Troy Day being self-employed is always better than being an employee. It’s a quicker road to financial freedom, which is what all the financial freedom gurus are talking about. 
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence 1099 NOT w-2 though missions do get w-2 sometimes
Anonymous
Troy Day COG career Missionaries are self-employed, but they also get a W-2
Anonymous
Keith Stone
Yes. They organization is tax free. Any income a person makes no matter what is taxable income. — NOT exactly but we will let this one ride for now
Anonymous
Terry Wiles I think it was only Ricky Grimsley and Gary Micheal Epping may be few more that resisted 501s Philip Williams is too much into the American Babylon to reconsider 501 as being oppressive taxation without representation for missional ministers
Anonymous
Ferdinand Gonzalez perhaps this is the right post for your comment?
God bless you all. There is no legal requirement for churches to be organized as corporations. It is a matter of convenience (limited liability, par example). Pursuant to the IRC 501c (3), churches that meet the requirements of that section are automatically considered tax exempt and are not required to apply for and obtain recognition of exempt status from the IRS as other entities must do. However, also as a matter of convenience, some churches obtain formal recognition. The problem for religious organizations, including churches, comes from the US Supreme Court decision in Bob Jones Univ. v. United States, 461 U.S. 574 (1983) where the Court held that the Government’s fundamental, overriding interest in eradicating racial discrimination in education substantially outweighs whatever burden denial of tax benefits places on a religious organization’s exercise of their religious beliefs. The reason this case has not been widely used in actions against churches is that the Supreme Court has narrowed the requirement to sue on that basis (standing). Notwithstanding, the sword of Damocles is somewhere out there. Well drafted church regulations and financial independence are advisable safeguards.
Anonymous
Troy Day Thank you!!
Anonymous
Ferdinand Gonzalez of course – your take on this is valued