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Pastor, Bishop or Elder?
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Troy Day (FB)
Under pastor, ” preaches to the congregation” incorrect. The Evangelist is the one who preaches. Preaching is heralding the gospel. Yet the pastor indeed should share the gospel Just as all believers. Second, ” teaches the grace message daily” should teach Grace through FAITH message daily. When the son of man Jesus, returns, will HE be looking for Grace? The answers found in Luke 18:8, Romans 1:17 The Just Shall Live By Faith. The grace message without the faith message will result in utter mediocracy and failure for the believer. True Grace and Faith work hand in hand for a prosperous and holy life in Christ led by the Holy Spirit for all believers in Christ Jesus
Philip Williams (FB)
Missing! Jesus
Daniel Denmark (FB)
But wait, they are all men
Scott Traenkner (FB)
After Jesus and the Disciples traveled and taught we can clearly see they went back later to find men who were full of Holy Wisdom and Spirit and ordained these Elder groups as they did at the Church in Jerusalem with the original 7 chosen leaders. They went back to “finish what was left wanting”unfinished.
Online status indicatorActive (FB)
Bad doctrine. Totally excludes the 5-fold ministry in Eph 4 working together in their respective roles.
Frederick Steel (FB)
This liberal approach circumvents all options for ‘being under’ authority, submission and the comparison Christ made between the Church and a marriage where there is, again, one head and one body.
Jeffrey Mayr (FB)
Under pastor, ” preaches to the congregation” incorrect. The Evangelist is the one who preaches. Preaching is heralding the gospel. Yet the pastor indeed should share the gospel Just as all believers. Second, ” teaches the grace message daily” should teach Grace through FAITH message daily. When the son of man Jesus, returns, will HE be looking for Grace? The answers found in Luke 18:8, Romans 1:17 The Just Shall Live By Faith. The grace message without the faith message will result in utter mediocracy and failure for the believer. True Grace and Faith work hand in hand for a prosperous and holy life in Christ led by the Holy Spirit for all believers in Christ Jesus
Brian Angela Doyle (FB)
Intriguing poster I appreciate the cognitive comparisons….
John Earp (FB)
In Acts 20, Paul the Apostle exhorted the Ephesian elders to watch over the flock of God, to shepherd/pastor the church of God, over which the Holy Spirit had made them overseers/bishops.
Ron Roddey (FB)
Calvinist teaching . They all represent same person
Troy Day
111 comments later Philip Williams still aint got no JESUS
@followers what is WRONG with this picture? AND GO!
Troy Day
RT Jeffrey Mayr for our @followers
Under pastor, ” preaches to the congregation” incorrect. The Evangelist is the one who preaches. Preaching is heralding the gospel. Yet the pastor indeed should share the gospel Just as all believers. Second, ” teaches the grace message daily” should teach Grace through FAITH message daily. When the son of man Jesus, returns, will HE be looking for Grace? The answers found in Luke 18:8, Romans 1:17 The Just Shall Live By Faith. The grace message without the faith message will result in utter mediocracy and failure for the believer. True Grace and Faith work hand in hand for a prosperous and holy life in Christ led by the Holy Spirit for all believers in Christ Jesus
Troy Day
Brian Angela Doyle Intriguing poster I appreciate the cognitive comparisons…. //NOT as wrong as it could be uNo
Brian Angela Doyle
Troy Day snap, lol, I didn’t say it was wrong at all, and I did appreciate the poster!
I actually think that bishop and overseer and elder are probably the same office, and that pastor is an equiper gift of the 5, and that elders must fit the Biblical qualifications and its best when they are multiple in a church.
Troy Day
RT Frederick Steel This liberal approach circumvents all options for ‘being under’ authority, submission and the comparison Christ made between the Church and a marriage where there is, again, one head and one body. //subscribe to humanistic frontology BUT blames other ON liberal approach circumvents without presenting absolutely NO proof
Frederick Steel
Troy Day Sorry. That made absolutely NO SENSE. Try rephrasing.
Troy Day
Frederick Steel the terms are mentioned in the BIBLE and operated under the 5 fold ministry IF you do not understand you can
1. read BIBLE
2. get some theological education
3. ask your pastor bishop or elder
4. all of the above
Frederick Steel
Troy Day Great advice. Graduated Bible College and Seminary. Studied Greek. Always known by friends for being able to admit when I am wrong. Not this time. Sorry.
Troy Day
Bad doctrine. Totally excludes the 5-fold ministry in Eph 4 working together in their respective roles. // RT Scott Traenkner After Jesus and the Disciples traveled and taught we can clearly see they went back later to find men who were full of Holy Wisdom and Spirit and ordained these Elder groups as they did at the Church in Jerusalem with the original 7 chosen leaders. They went back to “finish what was left wanting”unfinished.
Troy Day
RT Daniel Denmark But wait, they are all men THUS proposing a more Episcopalian model for out @followers
Troy Day
Paul Hughes Under pastor, ” preaches to the congregation” incorrect. The Evangelist is the one who preaches. Preaching is heralding the gospel. Yet the pastor indeed should share the gospel Just as all believers. Second, ” teaches the grace message daily” should teach Grace through FAITH message daily. When the son of man Jesus, returns, will HE be looking for Grace? The answers found in Luke 18:8, Romans 1:17 The Just Shall Live By Faith. The grace message without the faith message will result in utter mediocracy and failure for the believer. True Grace and Faith work hand in hand for a prosperous and holy life in Christ led by the Holy Spirit for all believers in Christ Jesus
Troy Day
RT @followers John Earp
In Acts 20, Paul the Apostle exhorted the Ephesian elders to watch over the flock of God, to shepherd/pastor the church of God, over which the Holy Spirit had made them overseers/bishops.
//HOW SO ???
Under pastor, ” preaches to the congregation” incorrect. The Evangelist is the one who preaches. Preaching is heralding the gospel. Yet the pastor indeed should share the gospel Just as all believers. Second, ” teaches the grace message daily” should teach Grace through FAITH message daily. When the son of man Jesus, returns, will HE be looking for Grace? The answers found in Luke 18:8, Romans 1:17 The Just Shall Live By Faith. The grace message without the faith message will result in utter mediocracy and failure for the believer. True Grace and Faith work hand in hand for a prosperous and holy life in Christ led by the Holy Spirit for all believers in Christ Jesus
Troy Day
RT Scott Traenkner
True Biblical teaching is a group of Elders, each filled with the Holy Ghost and Holy wisdom. Placed over the local congregation. Each Elder is equal and answers directly to Christ.
This delivers wise Spiritual counsel, sound doctrine discerned by the council and protects the congregation from the ego and desires of an individual man and his personal opinion on discernment of Gods Word.
After Jesus and the Disciples traveled and taught we can clearly see they went back later to find men who were full of Holy Wisdom and Spirit and ordained these Elder groups as they did at the Church in Jerusalem with the original 7 chosen leaders. They went back to “finish what was left wanting”unfinished.
A Church with one man leading is subject to the Ebbs and flows of a dictators ego in every way.
//PLS PROVE THIS with the BIBLE a bit more ?
Scott Traenkner
Troy Day what is RT?
Interesting concept grabbing responses and moving them to whatever this is.
Whatever you’re trying to accomplish here you might want to start with Acts, a pencil ✏️ and a piece of paper. Every time you see Paul or Peter or others sending out their helpers into town write down what their mission is. An Elder can be called upon to be anything the Spirit calls him for. Here he is preaching over there he is ministering, whoops there he goes discerning the Word within the group. The Elders together, following Christ have power to heal. They together counsel Gods children under their care and move and discipline the congregation they are called to lead. All equal all desire all things as a council. A man alone cannot put his flesh aside to honestly move Gods Work forward unbiased to their own wants. This all sounds foreign to you because it is rarely seen in modern church of man’s traditions. Plural Eldership is 100% Biblical. I guess you can move this response to your next interesting spot. Read what the disciples were actually doing on their visits to the different cities that were previously taught the Gospels.
Troy Day
Scott Traenkner yes indeed – obey the Holy Spirit brother !!!
Frederick Steel
Troy Day You’re mostly correct except for one thing. Christ’s Body being used as an illustration . . . ie. One Head but is also chief among EQUALS.
WHAT do we call something with more than one head? . . .
Troy Day
RT Brian Angela Doyle
Intriguing poster😊 I appreciate the cognitive comparisons….
RT Ron Roddey
Calvinist teaching . They all represent same person
RT Kyle Williams has said absolutely NOTHING
Troy Day
Bob W Jones is IN FACT dead wrong with his stance that :
None of those “job descriptions/ distinctions are found in Scripture!
HE needs to read the BIBLE again
And find a good BIBLE to relace what he reads as scripture nowadays – the terms are mentioned in the BIBLE and operated under the 5 fold ministry
Bob W Jones
Troy Day please give me chapter and verse from any Bible you choose that states these job descriptions of these various offices? I challenge you to do so! You can’t!
Troy Day
RT Dan Cross for John Mushenhouse + Philip Williams This meme sounds orderly and intuitive, but when measured against the biblical record, it collapses several distinct New Testament categories into later, post-apostolic structures. Below is a scripture-based critique, not polemical but textual. ⸻ 1. The Core Problem: It Assumes a Hierarchy Scripture Never Explicitly Establishes The meme presents Pastor → Bishop → Elder as distinct offices with differentiated authority. In the New Testament, however: • Pastor (ποιμήν / poimēn) • Elder (πρεσβύτερος / presbyteros) • Overseer/Bishop (ἐπίσκοπος / episkopos) are functionally overlapping, often used interchangeably for the same leaders. The meme reflects later ecclesial development, not apostolic-era church structure. 2. Pastor vs. Elder: Scripture Does Not Separate Them as Different Offices Meme Claim • Pastor: “Leads the local church,” “preaches,” “cares for the flock” • Elder: “Guides,” “counsels,” “supports the pastor” Biblical Record Scripture explicitly identifies elders as shepherds (pastors). Acts 20:17, 28 • Paul calls the elders (presbyteroi) of Ephesus • Then tells them: “The Holy Spirit has made you overseers (episkopoi) to shepherd (poimainō) the church of God” Same people. Three titles. One role. 1 Peter 5:1–2 “I exhort the elders… shepherd the flock of God, exercising oversight” There is no biblical category where elders merely “support the pastor.” Elders are the pastors/shepherds. ✔ Correction: Pastor is not a separate office from elder; it is a shepherding function of elders. The five-fold ministry from Ephesians 4:11 refers to five specific leadership roles God gives the church: apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors (shepherds), and teachers, whose purpose is to equip believers for service, build up the body of Christ, promote unity in faith, and bring believers to spiritual maturity (fullness in Christ). These aren’t just offices but spiritual gifts functioning to mature the church. As such the these offices, pastor included, are subsets among elders, not to be understood as separate apart from them. This is an important distinction. 3. Bishop / Overseer: Not a Regional or Doctrinal Authority Figure Meme Claim • Bishop “oversees the local church” • “Sets doctrinal direction” • “Appoints & corrects leaders” • “Defends dispensational truth” Biblical Record In the New Testament: • Bishop = Overseer = Elder • Not a superior rank Titus 1:5–7 • Paul uses elder and overseer interchangeably in the same paragraph Philippians 1:1 “To all the saints… with the overseers and deacons” Plural overseers in one local church, not one ruling bishop. ⚠️ Major Anachronism • “Defends dispensational truth” is 19th-century theological construction, which may or may not be true, but it is not a biblical office requirement or function. • Scripture requires guarding the apostolic gospel, not a later system (Acts 20:27; Gal. 1:6–9). ✔ Correction: Bishop/overseer is a local shepherd-leader, not a doctrinal monarch or regional executive. Some would argue that the bishop/overseer functions equivalent to the pastor in New Testament settings. It is much later in church, history development that we began to see the office of the bishop emerge as distinct from that role. ⸻ 4. Leadership in the New Testament Is Plural, Not Singular Meme Assumption One pastor leads. Others assist. Biblical Pattern Plural elder leadership is the consistent norm. • Acts 14:23 – elders appointed in every church • Titus 1:5 – elders in every town • James 5:14 – call the elders (plural) • 1 Timothy 5:17 – elders who rule well No verse describes: • One senior pastor • Subordinate elders • A bishop above them ✔ Correction: Authority is shared, accountable, and communal. 5. What Scripture Does Distinguish Clearly Scripture does differentiate: A. Elders / Overseers • Teach sound doctrine (Titus 1:9) • Shepherd the flock (1 Pet. 5:2) • Govern spiritually (1 Tim. 5:17) B. Deacons • Serve practical needs (Acts 6; 1 Tim. 3) • Not teaching rulers C. Apostles (Foundational, Not Ongoing Office) • Sent eyewitnesses of Christ (Eph. 2:20) • Not replaceable by bishops The meme blurs these categories while inventing others. 6. Theological Implication (Why This Matters) This meme subtly: • Clericalizes leadership • Minimizes elder authority • Normalizes hierarchical control • Retrofits Scripture to later church polity Jesus warned against a hierarchical view of authority. “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them… It shall not be so among you.” (Matthew 20:25–26) Ephesians 4 presents a deliberate inversion of hierarchical authority into supportive, equipping authority. Paul reframes leadership not as control over the church, but as service for the church’s growth. A. Authority Flows Downward, Not Upward Paul says Christ “gave” leaders to the church (Eph. 4:11). Authority is derived, not inherent. Leaders are gifts to the body, not rulers over it. This immediately undercuts status-based hierarchy. Authority exists because of Christ’s giving, not because of position. ⸻ B. Leaders Do Not Do the Work — They Enable the Work The purpose of apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds, and teachers is: “to equip the saints for the work of ministry” (Eph. 4:12) This is the inversion: • Not leaders doing ministry for passive people • But leaders empowering the whole body to minister Leadership success is measured by what others are enabled to do, not by how indispensable the leader becomes. ⸻ C. Maturity, Not Control, Is the Goal The aim is not compliance or uniformity, but: • Unity of faith • Knowledge of the Son of God • Full maturity (Eph. 4:13) Immature systems require tight control. Mature bodies require trust and mutual dependence. Authority decreases as formation increases. ⸻ D. Growth Comes from the Body, Not the Head Alone Christ alone is the Head (Eph. 4:15). Everyone else contributes: “the whole body… builds itself up in love, as each part does its work” (Eph. 4:16) Leaders do not monopolize spiritual supply. They help remove blockages so life can flow through all members. ⸻ E. Theological Bottom Line Ephesians 4 replaces positional hierarchy with functional authority: • Authority serves formation • Leadership equips, not dominates • Power is measured by multiplication, not retention ⸻ 7. Biblically Faithful Summary A more scriptural framing would be: • Elders / Overseers / Pastors → Same leaders, different descriptors of function • Plural leadership in each local church • Shepherding authority, not hierarchical domination • Doctrinal faithfulness to the apostolic gospel, not later systems ⸻ Bottom Line 📌 This meme reflects church tradition more than Scripture. 📌 The New Testament model is flatter, shared, and shepherd-centered. 📌 Titles describe functions, not ranks. This is not to say that the practicalities of function do not indicate some organizational structure in ecclesiastical practice. I just want to be clear as to how I see, scriptures revelation, unfolding, and how it differs somewhat from the meme.
Anonymous
interesting comments! churches should be Elder led!
Troy Day
Howard Gardner not really true BECUASE multiple church fathers were teaching it AND you want to say Larkin not Scofield who came much later “Joachim Abbas” is Joachim of Fiore introduced 3 dispensations https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/the-3-dispensations…/ in another discussion which I am about to post Donald Dayton answered to Brody Pope telling him Dake’s dispensations were not alike Darby’s but this is for another time This time it is just enough to state you are wrong again