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Is it true that EVERY denomination that started ordaining women NOW ordains GAY CLERGY too?
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Joseph Steven Girdler
No. It is not true.
Daniel Rusk
Joseph Steven Girdler Its not true yet, just a matter of time…
Varnel Watson
are you for gay ordination?
Joseph Steven Girdler
Troy Day , of course not.
Joseph Steven Girdler
Daniel Rusk ~not in the AG
William Sterling
Daniel Rusk that’s a ridiculous statement.
Daniel Rusk
William Sterling whatever, never seen a church with a woman ‘pastor’ that didn’t have a church with waggler men and Sodomites in it.
That is what happens when you’re in contradiction to God’s Word.
Tony Edwards
NO it is not true!
Varnel Watson
are you for gay ordination?
Paula Young
Troy Day no
Melody Cates Kinzer
NO! And no, I am not for gay ordination. Having a that lifestyle in an abomination to God. Being a woman is not. He made us. If someone doesn’t like the fact that God called me to be a preacher/Minister they can take it up with Him cuz I ran from it for 30 years. I finally gave in to His will.
Varnel Watson
what are the organizations that ordain women but not gay And is it just a matter of time to do it?
Melody Cates Kinzer
Troy Day COGOP and no it will never happen.
William Sterling
Assemblies of God and absolutely not.
Brian Roden
Troy Day Even in the UMC, it is only pockets going against their Book of Discipline that are doing so. We’ve seen this year how the UMC worldwide is fighting to keep out ordination of gays while still having ordained women.
Varnel Watson
Melody Cates Kinzer are you sure women can be bishops in COGOP? I am reading from yalls minutes that even when ordained women cannot administer sacraments except in remote locations until 89th General Assembly of 1996, approved the recommendation of the Biblical Doctrine
and Polity Committee that allows women ministers to administer the Lord’s Supper and
footwashing
Another development had to deal with the lack of a male evangelist being available in isolated
places to administer the ordinances of communion and footwashing, and allowing a female
evangelist to administer these sacraments. The question was asked:
Q. Should a female evangelist administer the Lord’s supper and feet
washing?
A. This has been considered permissible in isolated places when it was not
convenient to secure the services of a male minister
https://cogop.org/assembly/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/03/BDP-Report-English.pdf
Melody Cates Kinzer
Troy Day I said nothing about a Bishop.. I was referring to being a Minister or Pastor in general. However, women can be Deaconesses now in COGOP.
Melody Cates Kinzer
Oh and we just had our 100th annual assembly. A few things have changed.
Varnel Watson
Melody Cates Kinzer I was just clarifying I am not aware of any denomination with the name Church of God in it that fully ordains women I truly hoped you proved me wrong
Paula Young
Upci does not approve this behavior bible is Written From God And clearly states its abomination unto the LORD so if you are a true christian following Jesus Christ then it makes you sick for this behaviour as well.
Steven Wise
No connection
Varnel Watson
its prophetic
William DeArteaga
No, The Anglican Church in North America (my denomination) has permitted local area bishops to ordain and use female priests. I know some who are wonderful. At the same time, no compromise on the biblical issue of homosexuality nor ordaining openly practicing homosexuals.
Varnel Watson
is this true for every Anglican church out there Wasnt there a major declaration about this from Africa?
Brian Roden
Troy Day As I recall, the ACNA started as a breakaway from the Episcopal Church, under leadership of African bishops, specifically as a protest to the Episcopalians’ ordaining of gay clergy.
Varnel Watson
Brian Roden thanks http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/anglican-communion-suspends-the-episcopal-church-over-gay-rights/
Joe Babcock
The Assemblies of God ordains women
Varnel Watson
I knew Barrett when pastoring in OH but I wasnt aware there was a female GENERAL SUPERINTENDENT in the history of AG Thank you for clarifying this for the group
James Reeder
That is a flat out lie how dare you our denomination has not our church was started by a woman you obviously have no idea what you’re talkin about
Varnel Watson
who are you talking to? James Reeder
Ken Van Horn
James Reeder Church of the Foursquare Gospel, a significant denomination,was founded by a woman.
Jerry Lawson
The COG ordains women.
Varnel Watson
not really now does it? can they be ordained bishops?
Jerry Lawson
Troy Day As I recall, the COG has 3 ranks of ministry: licensed, ordained and ordained bishop. Women can be licensed and ordained.
Jerry Lawson
…and in the true sense of the word, even a “licensed” minister has been “ordained” by the COG.
Varnel Watson
Jerry Lawson so they cannot be ordained bishops; meaning cannot vote the agenda on the floor
Thanks for the clarification
Jerry Lawson
Troy Day Yes, I thought you were asking if there were any denominations that have ordained women and not allowed gay marriage.
Varnel Watson
Jerry Lawson I was aware cog did not have women bishops but have not followed the rest Thanks for clarifying
Jeremiah Burton
No. CME Church has always ordained women, but not gay clergy.
Varnel Watson
is this the same as UMC? Wasnt there a major split about this just recently among Methodists in the USA
Jeremiah Burton
Troy Day UMC is United Methodists Episcopal. CME is Christian Methodist Episcopal. Both Methodist in doctrine but completely separate organizations. UMC did have a major split over it, but CME has not.
Varnel Watson
Jeremiah Burton which of the two Methodists voted against gay marriage and LGBT clergy? http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/methodists-vote-against-gay-marriage-and-lgbt-clergy/
Jeremiah Burton
Troy Day thanks for sharing this. I had not seen this update Information. I’m a minister with the CME church and admittedly stopped following the story after I heard about the proposed Traditional vs. One Church Plan
Varnel Watson
Jeremiah Burton well I have NO dog in this fight really BUT do like to clarify and know whats going on 🙂
Eric Jones
So you are equating women in ministry with homosexuals? Equating women and homosexuals? Your pride and arrogance is overwhelming. You equate Mary, who was commissioned to tell all the others of the resurrection of Christ and the Samaritan woman who was used to tell her whole community about Jesus with homosexuals? Wow! Enraged…
Brian Roden
Eric Jones Not so sure he is equating the two, as bringing up the argument many complementarians make that any church ordaining women is on a slippery slope to ordaining LGBTQ+
Eric Jones
Brian Roden the Assemblies of God has ordained women in ministry for years. We are nowhere close to ordaining homosexuals. There is no equivalence.
Varnel Watson
who are you talking to? Eric Jones
Who is he who is equating Brian Roden ?
Brian Roden
Eric Jones I am well aware of that, and have pointed that out to people (primarily Reformed types) who make the slippery slope argument.
My comment here was giving the OP the benefit of the doubt, suggesting that maybe he was bringing forth that argument to elicit discussion, and not necessarily equating women and homosexuals as your comment said he was.
Eric Jones
Troy Day you are seemingly equating this supposition by your post.
Varnel Watson
Eric Jones I am actually FOR women in ministry and have 4 ordained women in my family alone but I dont expect you to know that and NO I am not equating – you are reaching and simply wrong in some personal way of yours
Ray James
NO! It is NOT true.
Donald W. Dayton
The wesleyan church began ordaining women in the 1850s.
Lynn Newman
No Not true I’m ordained Minister Pastor a church in church of God ..they DONOT ordain gay clergy
Varnel Watson
are you an ordain bishop too? Pls clarify
Daniel Rusk
All you people have is thin arguments. Mary was ‘commissioned’ you add to the Scripture implying Mary was a Pastor bc Jesus used her to deliver a message once.
The Bible is stacked against your women Pastors. There are plenty of homosexual pastors prolly on this thread they’re just in the closet.
Eric Jones
Daniel Rusk we claim as a “commission” when Jesus simply said “Go”… in fact, we preach it boldly. She was told to “Go” even if it was a simple task. If God calls a woman to be a pastor, that is His prerogative.
William Sterling
Daniel Rusk who do you think Priscilla and Aquila were? And why is Prescilla mentioned first?
William Sterling
Daniel Rusk how many of Paul’s helpers in ministry were women and what role do you think they had?
Varnel Watson
William Sterling tells how many pls ???
William Sterling
Troy Day he mentions at least 10 in Rom 16 alone.
Varnel Watson
William Sterling tell us all about them if you pls
William Sterling
Troy Day I have to get on a plane and can’t get into it now, but heres a quick link for some:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/baxter_mary/WitW/WitW52_PaulsHelpers.cfm
John Rice
No it is not
Wesley Mills
No
Varnel Watson
Brian Roden I would have expected it from a newb in the group like Eric Jones but you should know better having witnessed at least a dozen of discussions I’ve started personally in this group defending women in ministry https://www.facebook.com/groups/pentecostaltheologygroup/search/?query=women&epa=SEARCH_BOX
Methodists Denied Splitting Over LGBT Issues and VOTED against gay marriage and LGBT clergy but Methodist and Episcopalian Church Led Prayer to “Bless” Abortions
Brian Roden
Troy Day I have a fairly good memory, I’m in a couple dozen theology groups, this being one of the lower-traffic ones. You’ll forgive me if the high traffic in the other fora after MacArthur’s recent blow-up was more present than your past posts.
Varnel Watson
Brian Roden this is a pretty high traffic group if you look at the states Thank you for clarification as you are well aware about my point on women in ministry I was asked the question recently from a leading NC pastor AND his wife and both claimed it to be true I simply wanted to ask the group and confirm my understanding of the issue I do not see the equivalent as you stated but it seems to to be true that all churches that began gay ordination started with ordaining women Pls see if this is a true or wrong statement Thanks
Brian Roden
Troy Day One of the things people often fail to take into consideration is that correlation does not equal causation. The fact that every denomination that has started ordaining gay clergy also ordains women, does NOT mean that ordination of women leads to ordination of gays.
Craig Keener pointed this out when The Remnant Radio had him on to discuss women in ministry.
Varnel Watson
Brian Roden I think you are confusing the topics Check history every church that has started ordaining gay first moved toward ordaining women – it was the first step
Brian Roden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u9iMvvvqTc&feature=youtu.be&t=935
and especially at the 22:05 mark
David A Dawson
Presbyterian in America do not allow women to preach or pastor.
Varnel Watson
which synod? there is so so many of them
David A Dawson
In Presbyterian there are 2 groups PCUSA and PCA.
Varnel Watson
David A Dawson there a LOT more than 2 synods that approve gay clergy ordination right? Some in Scotland too
Neil Steven Lawrence
I don’t see a problem ordaining women. It is most likely a coincidence that liberal denominations have gone down that road toward allowing the perversion of homosexuality into their ranks.
I believe it has nothing to do with women but more to do with a compromise in their: theology, view of scripture, concept of holiness, worship at the “pluralism” altar, and just plain old rebellion!
John Duncan
No not true of CH or PH.
Varnel Watson
what are these abbreviations meaning
John Duncan
Troy Day Congregational Holiness and Pentecostal Holiness
Varnel Watson
John Duncan Thanks I read them as Church of Christ and IPHC Are CH still reformed?
John Duncan
Troy Day we are a lot like Church of God (Tennessee) and a/g.
Ken Van Horn
The Assemblies of God have ordained women since it was founded and do not ordain gay clergy.
Varnel Watson
Did you mean yet?
Ken Van Horn
Troy Day No. They recognized what God had done through Women. Their eyes remain on God.
Varnel Watson
Ken Van Horn so you are 100% sure our AG will NEVER ordain gay ministers? am I understanding you correctly
Ken Van Horn
Troy Day I think the vast majority of present day ministers would leave the Assemblies of God if they were to make this move.
Melody Cates Kinzer
Ken Van Horn same with COGOP AND COG
Varnel Watson
Melody Cates Kinzer do you have a proof for that Ken Van Horn I’ve heard many say that but where would they go? So said many anglican, presbyterian and lutheran and look at them now
Melody Cates Kinzer
Troy Day it’ll take me awhile to get it together. I’m sure it’s in the ministry and policy manual. I have my hands full right now but thanks for church and things for grandkids and just things LOL I’ll get back with you
Varnel Watson
Melody Cates Kinzer Thanks but until then a shot in the dark I’ve heard so many preachers through my ministry saying if … I am leaving Well they didnt Stayed with us in AG retired even got buried by other AG preachers so Ken Van Horn is just speculating here but it sounds good on paper
Melody Cates Kinzer
Troy Day I thought you were referring to women being deaconesses in our church now. Ask for someone staying when a church allow something that is an abomination to the Lord, I guess that’s between them and God but I’ll be gone.and I know several other people in the church that will as well. not everybody is going to go along just because headquarters says so. God has a people, a wheel within a wheel
Ray James
Absolutely NOT true.
Varnel Watson
is it not true that ALL churches who ordain homosexuals began with ordaining women first?
Ray James
I have no idea, but that is not what your above original statement says.
Varnel Watson
Ray James apparently further research needed
Ray James
Agree
Varnel Watson
Paul L. King has posted
a partial list of denominations who ordain women (some of them for 100+ years), but do not and will not ordain homosexuals: Assemblies of God, Foursquare Church, Open Bible Standard Church, Salvation Army, Church of the Nazarene, Wesleyan Church, Free Methodist Church. (More recent: VIneyard Church, Christian & Missionary Alliance of Canada; Christian and Missionary Alliance in Philippines; Christian and Missionary Alliance in Ecuador)
Ray James
I would also add the Church of God (Cleveland), and the International Pentecostal Holiness Church.
Steve Hamm
The Bible clearly mentions women preachers (prophetesses), but not pastors.
Varnel Watson
OK we can all agree on this How do you see it as relative to the question in OP?
William Sterling
This is probably a stupid question, but what men does the Bible clearly mention as pastors?
Steve Hamm
This would probably come under the prohibition of women having authority over men in the church.(1 Timothy 2:12)
Varnel Watson
Steve Hamm naah not really – cause they are still allowed to sing worship, sunday school, prophecy so NO not really
Louise Cummings
I have never been called to pastor. I have filled in at churches , and preached until they found one they wanted to vote on. I don’t think that’s ever been over four week. Until they would have one. But the way I look at absorbing authority over a man. If he invites you to preach. You are not taking authority over a man. He gave you permission. We don’t need trajectories authority or ER anything. Except our children. We are suppose to see they are raised right. It takes much prayer. And wisdom. But we are to bring them up righting se are given authority to do certain things.We are to do our best.
Varnel Watson
George Hartwell Jeremiah Burton called this one about 2 months ago Leaders from the United Methodist Church reportedly announced a tentative plan Friday to split the church over differences on same-sex marriage and the inclusion of gay clergy.
The new conservative “Traditionalist Methodist” denomination wouldn’t allow gay marriage or gay clergy members, The New York Times reported.
The proposal was first signed in December after the “fundamental differences” within the church became irreconcilable. https://www.foxnews.com/us/united-methodist-church-split-lgbtq-rights
Otto Wegner
Pentecostals have ordained women for decades and are not about to ordain gay people.
Douglas Bowers Sr.
Absoultly not!!!
Tom Phillips
Not true… the Church of the Nazarene was the first denomination to ordain women (began in 1895). No gay ordination there. The same is true for most holiness churches (Salvation Army, Wesleyans, Free Methodists, etc).
Donald W. Dayton
Tom Phillips The Wesleyans began to ordain women in the mid 19th century, long before the Nazarenes.
Tom Phillips
Donald W. Dayton (my friend) I stand corrected on that point, though the larger point about the holiness churches ordaining women, but not gays, stands.
Timothy Staggs
No
Varnel Watson
Leaders from the United Methodist Church reportedly announced a tentative plan Friday to split the church over differences on same-sex marriage and the inclusion of gay clergy.
The new conservative “Traditionalist Methodist” denomination wouldn’t allow gay marriage or gay clergy members, The New York Times reported.
The proposal was first signed in December after the “fundamental differences” within the church became irreconcilable. https://www.foxnews.com/us/united-methodist-church-split-lgbtq-rights?fbclid=IwAR2mIVmj5CBpfK54U94EFuwbRO_R56bZsEFpDMsR33Cj6HUp4Tet9GgREw0