Practical application of Pentecostal theology in politics, economy and social issues
I was reading a neo pentecostal article… And it explored the questions:
Is it possible to reject Jesus as Lord but accept him as Savior?
Anybody want to weigh in?!?!
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Mark 4:11-12, Luke 8:10 & Matt. 13:11-15 says that Christ spoke in parables so that the multitude in ‘seeing they would not see’ and ‘hearing they would not hear’, etc.
ESV (Mark 4:11-12) 11And he said to them, “To you has been given
the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is
in parables, 12 so that “they may indeed see but not perceive, and may
indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be
forgiven.”(Luke 8:10) he said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of
the kingdom of God, but for others they are in parables, so that
‘seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.’(Matt. 13:11-15) 11And he answered them, “To you it has been given
to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not
been given. 12 For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will
have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will
be taken away. 13This is why I speak to them in parables, because
seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they
understand. 14Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is
fulfilled that says: “‘“You will indeed hear but never understand, and
you will indeed see but never perceive.” 15For this people’s heart
has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their
eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear
with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would
heal them.’
What does this mean? Why do people say Christ used parables to help the people understand clearly, when these passages seem to say he did not want them to understand clearly? Are the parables meant to be concealing yet revealing the truth completely at the same time?
Brian Roden
I would think being “in Christ,” which is where salvation is found, would necessarily entail being guided by/submitted to the head of the body.
Charles Page
what article is this? That is important to the discussion.
Daniel Blaylock
It seems to me the most basic Christian confession was “Jesus is Lord.” We believe on the “Lord” Jesus Christ to be saved. I do t think we can take Him as Savior and not as Lord. Jesus hasn’t placed that option on the table.
This was the issue with the rich young ruler. If we won’t follow Jesus we cannot have eternal life.
Street Preacherz
What’s neo Pentecostal?
Brian Roden
My understanding is that neo-Pentecostal generally refers to the “Third Wave” and later Charismatic groups that are more independent (or Charismatic groups within non-historically-Pentecostal churched), as opposed to the classical Pentecostal denominations such as A/G, COGIC, Foursquare, CoG-Cleveland, etc.
Varnel Watson
What about the 4th wave. And the 5th?
Street Preacherz
I keep rereading this simple question, and it seems like a sanctification question. Which in itself can get mired. If we are willing to accept something like Holy Spirit baptism as a second work. But obviously not always a second work. Some are gloriously saved and filled upon believing in Christ. So thats one marker for a subsequent event in the life of the believer.
Another marker for a second event is the growth of repentance. At first I repented for fear of a just God and a justly deserved hell. But as I grow to know this God in fellowship of the Spirit and knowledge of the scriptures I become acutely aware that I have offended Him his gracious righteous holy character. And that is a real loss for me. So there is a growth in grace. Of course we promise to give everything over to him but we dont. but God willing there comes a day we’re finished. That’s it, my sin, my pride, my rebellion has found me out. I can’t cover it up any longer. The grace of God has gained sufficient strength in my soul to convict and kill the old man.
So that in my mind,yes, you can come into salvation and a further Lordship.
The difficulty here is the word “reject” the Lord ship of Christ. It would be very difficult indeed to claim such a man was saved or “born again” that man might be the seed on shallow ground and hears the word receives the word and then whithers under persecution. So yes saved in near term lost long term. He has fallen away. May God have mercy. These are just simple thoughts I yield to the scholars…
Angel Ruiz
Well brother love how deep you took the subject
Street Preacherz
Jesus is a wonderful Saviour. He’s really something. I wish everybody could meet him just once. They can decide for themselves after that.
Varnel Watson
This sounds like some sort of California gospel to me
Sally Jo Shelton
Faith by definition implies obedience. Any so-called faith that does not include the intention of becoming Christ’s disciples (taking up our crosses daily and following him) is not true faith. Faith means trust in and total reliance on, and obedience is the outward manifestation of that trust. Therefore, we can’t claim to accept Christ as our Savior by faith without also accepting him as our Lord.
Varnel Watson
When you Colombia south america and Toronto Canada Is someone actually preaching it there or ppl are just talking about this?
Terry Wiles
One day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that He is Lord. To reject Him as Lord is to live life your way. A famous teacher asked the question, “Why do you call me Lord and not do what I say?” If one rejects His way how can He save you.
Varnel Watson
Angel Ruiz I think we need to see a bit more of this new teaching. Where does it come from? How is it being indoctrinated. Are there leading scholars holding this view. Apart from Charles none has hear of it just yet
Keith Day
Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
I believe these scriptures indicate that if Jesus is not truly your Lord then He will not be your savior.
David Lewayne Porter
Where The Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
Or more accurately
Where The Spirit is Lord, there is freedom.
Freedom, Interesting thought.
Freedom from?
I believe freedom from sin would be on top of that list.
Wayne Scott
Salvation is a covenant relationship with God. Covenant relationship is “a compact of mutual faithfulness” like our marriage covenant.
God writes the terms of His covenant relationship and we can accept or reject. Yet some arrogant people want to rewrite the terms.
The only terms of relationship God has ever offered anyone is unconditional surrender to His oft repeated demands of lordship rights over our lives. He demands our worship (Romans 12:1-2) not because He has unfulfilled needs but only because only in walking with Him can our deepest needs be fulfilled.
Varnel Watson
Covenant in/under the blood?