Is Rev. 14:9-11 speaking of torment after death, or of torment while they are still living?

Is Rev. 14:9-11 speaking of torment after death, or of torment while they are still living?

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Isa. 9:18-21,

"18 For wickedness burneth as the fire: it shall devour the briers and thorns, and shall kindle in the thickets of the forest, and they shall mount up like the lifting up of smoke.

19 Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire: no man shall spare his brother.

20 And he shall snatch on the right hand, and be hungry; and he shall eat on the left hand, and they shall not be satisfied: they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm:

21 Manasseh, Ephraim; and Ephraim, Manasseh: and they together shall be against Judah. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still." (KJV)

This speaks of wicked actions of living people. The people are the fuel for the fire while they are living wicked lives on earth. Devouring their brothers depicts the actions of thieves and murderers, the ones who steal what another has to convert it to their own use.

Today, we call these people parasites and zombies, who feed off the productive sector of society. This wicked activity goes on during life, and the fire is God’s anger.

Lam. 2:4, "…He hath poured out as fire His fury." (KJV)

The wicked are bringing forth the column of smoke before the Lord during their lifetime because of their actions. Their wicked actions… their torment of the people…are the fuel of the fire of God’s wrath.

Not that the wicked are being tormented, but that they are tormenting the people. And, their wickedness comes up as a smoke before God, and causes His anger and fury.

Therefore, in Rev. 14:9-11,

"9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

"10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." (KJV)

isn’t this the same language as Isa. 9:18-21? The smoke of their wicked acts… their torment of the people…rises up before God. This is not something that happens after they die.

Isn’t the action of worshiping the "beast" an action during life on earth? The beast is a ruler or authority that preys upon the weak and the young, that devours those whom they should be protecting (Isa. 56:11; Jer. 25:34; 50:6-7, 17; Ezek. 34:2, 8, 10, etc.).

Since these actions of the wicked who worship the beast, and who receive the mark of slavery/ ownership occur during their mortal lifetimes, then they have not yet died. And, isn’t this the same burning torment of those living wicked people spoken of in Isa. c.9?

Therefore, isn’t the wrath of God (the fire) being poured into the cup of His indignation while they yet live, continuing to fill it until it overflows?

I am wondering if this highly figurative passage of a prophetic image in Rev. c.14 is not speaking of eternal torment after death, but of the torment they cause while they yet live on earth?

1 Comment

  • Reply February 23, 2024

    Troy Day

    RT Duane L Burgess
    Soul and spirit are used interchangeably in Scripture.
    We are a being with a body, and we have many aspects, attributes of our being. We are “two part” not three.
    Then Yahweh God formed man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and so the man became a living being. Gen. 2
    …then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. Eccl. 12
    Only I Thes. 5:23 says “spirit and soul and body” and it’s not discussing the nature of mankind.

    perhaps John Mushenhouse Philip Williams John Mushenhouse Link Hudson and Terry Wiles with his new book can give more explanation on this for our @followers

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