Clinton Arnold: Lausanne statement on engaging territorial spirits

Starting Point for Ongoing Discussion: Clinton Arnold which I would consider an appropriate starting point for a Lausanne statement on engaging territorial spirits in spiritual

Charles Page [02/25/2015 5:56 PM]
I read about territorial spirits (princes) in the book of Daniel this morning!

James L Alldredge [02/25/2015 7:01 PM]
There is no biblical precedent for binding “territorial” spirits. In fact, there is no biblical precedent for binding any spirit. The binding and loosing scripture (Matt. 16) is debatable on whether or not it refers to spirits at all. (it more likely refers to the forgiveness of sins and the discipline of church members, Matt 18:18)The call is to preach the gospel and pray, it is the preaching of the gospel that God has chosen to overthrow the kingdom of darkness, not some “spiritual mapping” initiative. If there are territorial spirits, then it is likely that their rank is conferred by God, not Satan. They may be in rebellion but their authority is still legitimate. As a point of fact, Jesus “bound” all spirits for all time by His death and resurrection. We do not need to do it again. This is another example of how the pentecostal movement has been corrupted by pagan ideas of spirituality. Satan loves being the focus of our attention and knows as long as we are obsessed with him, we are useless to the advancement of the gospel. We have no record of Peter, Paul, John, or for that matter Jonathan Edwards, DL Moody or John Wesley calling for the “profiling” of any area they went to preach. God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save the lost, when you want to pray, pray to the Lord of the Harvest to send more laborers, pray for all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Charles Page [02/25/2015 7:18 PM]
agree James, however in Daniel there are territorial spirits/princes and they ceased at 70 AD, conquered by Christ. From the cross to the destruction of Jerusalem.

James L Alldredge [02/25/2015 7:25 PM]
In what way did they cease? Rome continued to rule the Jews for another millenium, then the Turks took over. The cross broke Satan’s power over death by annulling the law of sin and death, thus removing his legitimate claims against the souls of sinners. This had nothing to do with territories, it was universal. The only power Satan has is our sin, once we have been forgiven, his power over our life is voided, regardless of whose territory we may reside in.

Charles Page [02/25/2015 7:32 PM]
The cessation told in the book of Revelation and the sermon on the mount of Olives depict this which transpired by AD 70. My view is A-mill and I believe all the prophecies are fulfilled.

James L Alldredge [02/25/2015 7:39 PM]
Thanks for clarifying your point, I’m sympathetic to the point that the prophecies have been fulfilled in a partial sense. For example, Is. 7:14 clearly refers to the birth of a child in Isaiah’s own lifetime, but also had a Messianic application, that’s how I view Revelation, it has been partially fulfilled many times, in many different places where the church has been persecuted. But I still believe there will be a final Messianic fulfillment at the end of the age

Charles Page [02/25/2015 7:56 PM]
I tend toward full Preterism

Pentecostal Theology [02/25/2015 8:02 PM]
A case of diabolic attachment to a geographic location is found in the “Legion” (Mark 5:1-20) begging Jesus not to send them out of the region. The Lord called Pergamum the place/region where “Satan’s throne is” (Rev. 2:13, KJV). Jesus also spoke concerning the religious life of Smyrna, identifying the synagogue there as belonging to Satan (Rev. 2:9-10).
Matthew 16:19 and Matthew 12:28-29 speak about the “keys of the kingdom of heaven” given to “bind on earth” and it shall be bound in heaven. The only thing we know of being bound on both heaven and earth is connected to the binding of Satan in Rev. 20. Furthermore, Matthew 12:28-29 addresses the issue of casting out demons and binding the strong man i.e. Satan. Hence, these “keys of the kingdom of heaven” should in all possibility bind powers of darkness i.e. demons, else they render useless.

Charles Page [02/25/2015 8:41 PM]
all this falls within the bounds of A-Mill view

James L Alldredge [02/25/2015 8:44 PM]
If that were the case then the church would have long ago taken full possession of the earth. I concede the idea of territorial connections, I simply question our ability to overrule them. After all, Jesus did honor the request of Legion to enter the swine at least giving tacit support to the idea that their authority is legitimate. Binding and loosing is clearly connected to the preaching of the gospel, not just saying the words binding and loosing. We “bind” demons by “loosing” souls from sin through the preaching of the gospel. Our commission is to go and preach, not go and map out spiritual territories. Confronting territorial spirits is a distraction at best and a perversion at worst, Daniel made no attempt to bind the prince of Persia, he kept his face towards God. Michael did not dispute with the devil over the body of Moses, he appealed to the Lord. Jude warned against those who would “speak evil of dignitaries” (literal translation=glorious ones) who are clearly connected to the next phrase concerning Michael and Satan. Here is the main problem, we have no idea if the “prince” of our territory is carrying out the will of God or not, any attempt on our part to interfere may cause us to be in opposition to God.

Charles Page [02/25/2015 8:58 PM]
We will face the Lord on that day and hear words of judgement for not “taking full possession of the earth” we know what we should do but excuse ourselves from not doing what we know Christ wants us to do. We have great promises for our obedience but we are so convinced God accepts us for who/what we are in stead off what we could be.

James L Alldredge [02/25/2015 9:03 PM]
You may be right, but Revelation presents a different picture, the world will, (or has, if you believe it has already been fulfilled), fall more and more under the power of Satan until Jesus Himself comes to overthrow him. Whether that is due to our failures as the church or has been the plan of God all along may not be answered until then…

Pentecostal Theology [02/26/2015 12:03 PM]
Carolyn Martin James Afraid, that to say “If that were the case then the church would have long ago taken full possession of the earth” is the same as saying that the church should have long ago preached the Gospel to the whole earth…

Charles Page [02/26/2015 1:03 PM]
they should have preached the WHOLE gospel as the church did before 70 AD. Their sound went into the earth starting with Jerusalem, Judea and the uttermost parts of the earth.

It was to be a sign of the coming destruction of Jerusalem told by Jesus and John and the establishment of the millennial rule of King Jesus.

James L Alldredge [02/26/2015 4:09 PM]
Preaching has both the power to bind and to loose depending upon the faith response of the hearers. The point was for the world to hear the gospel so that they would be without excuse on the day of judgement. There is no promise of possession, quite the opposite, both Matthew and revelation picture the church as ultimately failing to impact the world, hence the wrath of God being poured out.

Pentecostal Theology [02/26/2015 4:31 PM]
Getting confronted by a demonized in church while preaching would change your previously expressed perspective completely