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Are demon spirits of the pre-Adamite race?
Dan Irving
The only source for that is the book of Enoch, which refers to demons as the “bastards” (X.9) born from the union of angels with men, who are now departed spirits. We read at Enoch XV.8, “And now the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling . . . because they are born from men, and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin. . . . And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth . . rise up (to) cause offenses . . against the children of men and against the women, becaue they have proceeded from them.” We read in Enoch that they shall be bound together with the reprobate for perdition.
Jim Daniel
1) There is no evidence of a civilization that existed before Adam, either scientific or biblical.
That pretty much ends the discussion, doesn’t it?
Rico Hero
Hi Jim! you YEC?
Jim Daniel
What is YEC?
Rico Hero
Young earth creationist
Jim Daniel
Of course. If you follow the evidence, you discover that evolution doesn’t happen. You also find out that there is a tremendous amount of science that supports a young earth.
Consequently, a young earth and six day creation is the only way to read the first chapter of Genesis without doing damage to the text.
Rico Hero
Hi Jim, the biblical belief of an old earth and a pre adam life does not imply evolution, nor do we believe in evolution.Here is what Gen 1:1-2 says, “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. ( earth is defined in v10 as dry land). And the earth was( from the verb to become, NOT to be) vaha vo bohu ( a waste and empty) and darkness was upon the face of the waters. And the (holy) Spirit moved upon the face of the waters. “. Note: the earth, darkness and water already in existence before the creation work of Day one. The earth ( dry land) is wet –becoming va ha bohu and darkness upon the face of the waters ” as the Holy Spirit moved upon the face of the waters.
Jim Daniel
Apply Ockham’s razor. There is no need to make things more complex than they have to be.
Secondly, if an old earth is a good reading, then why is it that it never seemed to occur until science began demanding billions of years to justify evolution.
Hermeneutics says that the text cannot mean today what it didn’t mean to the original hearers.
Rico Hero
Hi Jim, It is more likely those who assumed the earth was young –created 6000 years ago, who read into the text! Clearly, the writer of Genesis (Moses) did not see a young earth because he saw it , darkness, and water, already in existence before day one. . How do you justify that the earth, darkness, and water are already in existence before day one?
Jim Daniel
So you are telling me that the Hebrews who first heard Moses read this would have immediately said, Oh, there is a gap in time there! God must have created the earth, then recreated it in the next sentence. Not likely.
What you are seeing is the equivalent of a topic sentence telling you what is coming, followed by an in depth, play by play of what God did.
Rico Hero
I agree Genesis 1:1 is a topic sentence or a summary followed by a description of an earth laid waste covered with water. this is what Moses saw. The earth, darkness and water already in existence before day 1. Day One begins with light :and the evening and the morning were day 1. how do you justify them already in existence before day 1?
Rico Hero
St Peter wrote,For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of OLD, and the earth standing out of water and in the water,
Stan Wayne
No
Link Hudson
Sounds like L. Ron Hubbard’s idea.
Rico Hero
but its not from L Ron Hubbard . It s from the Bible , snip .General facts about demons: They are subject to Christ and made subject to believers by the atonement, the name of Jesus, and the Holy Spirit (Mt. 8:16-17; 12:28; Mk. 16:17; Lk. 10:17; Acts 19:15). Thousands of them can enter into and take possession of one man at the same time (Mk. 5:9). They must be discerned, tested, resisted, and rejected by believers (1Jn. 4:1-6 1Cor. 12:10; Eph. 4:27; 6:10-18 1Pet. 5:8-9). They have more than ordinary intelligence (Mt. 8:29). Their rightful place is in the abyss (Lk. 8:31; Rev. 9:1-21). They have personality (Lk. 8:26-33). They are disembodied (Mt. 12:43-45). They are Satan’s emissaries (Mt. 12:26-29). They are numerous (Mk. 5:9). They can enter into and control both men and animals (Mk. 5:1-18), and they seek embodiment (Mt. 12:43-45 Lk. 8:32). Demon possession and demon influence are different (cp. Mt. 4:23-24 with 16:21-23). Demons know their fate (Mt. 8:31-32) and recognize those who have power over them (Acts 19:13-17). They fear God (Jas. 2:19). They inflict physical maladies (Mt. 12:22; 17:15-18). They wage war on saints (Eph. 6:10-18). They influence men (1Tim. 4:1-5 2Pet. 2:10-12). All unbelievers are more or less in league with them (Eph. 2:1-3). The only resources against them are prayer and the whole armor of God (Mt. 17:21; Eph. 6:10-18). There are demon spirits for every sickness, unholy trait, and doctrinal error known among people. They must be cast out or resisted in order to experience relief from them.(DAKE)
Link Hudson
None of which is an argument for their being spirits of a pre-Adamic race. Btw, I should have made it clear I was addressing the pre-Adamite race issue, the question asked. Scientology teaches that people have clusters of spirits from a previous race of beings that lived on the earth long ago.
The theories I know of regarding demons are that:
1. They are fallen angels.
2. They are fallen angels and their children (Tertullian)
3. They are the children of fallen angels)
4. They are the spirits of the wicked dead (human beings) (Alexander Campbell from the CoC movement).
I think we would all reject number 4.
Rico Hero
its an argument that disembodied spirits are biblical and not from Ron Hubbard. Ron , he possibly got inspiration from the Bible on Spirits when he wrote his fairy tale. As I understand Rons tale, The universal leader Zeno got rid of universal over population by freezing mass races located throughout the universe , transporting them in ships that looked like commercial planes, dumping them in a volcano here on earth, and once they burned, their spirits wandered into life on earth–including a monkey like race that evolved into the human race.
Rico Hero
or do you suppose the above scriptures dont really mean what they say?
Link Hudson
Rico Hero, I was responding to the question that the commentator (Dake I suppose) was responding to. Scientology teaches that the spirits of a previous race of creatures could torment people.
Varnel Watson
Asian legends which missionaries believe when they go to the Philippines?
Brian Crisp
Demons are most likely spirits of the nephelum and they could also be the spirits of the pre adamite race.
Jim Daniel
Except there is no evidence for a pre-Adamic race outside of someone’s imagination.
Okham’s razor: always seek the simplest answer that satisfies all the facts.
Brian Crisp
Genesis the first two verses explains a gap of time. But I also said demon spirits were the disembodied spirits of the nephelum
Jim Daniel
Once again, that does damage to the plain sense reading of the text. If it was an acceptable reading, why does it take Darwin’s theory to introduce long ages and an old earth before anyone in the church considers the notion of a gap?
Before bowing down to science, make sure it is good science which evolution is not. There is plenty of scientific material that demonstrates the impossibility of Darwinian evolution.
Brian Crisp
It’s not science it’s bible. A gap theory has nothing to do with Darwin or his theories.
Brian Crisp
A simple word study proves it.
Jim Daniel
Word studies are only useful when taken in context of the immediate text, the book as a whole and the entire Bible. If this is a valid interpretation, why is it that no one in 6000 years ever thought of it until science began to demand billions of years for evolution to occur?
Brian Crisp
They did.
Jim Daniel
Sources?
Brian Crisp
Many theologians believed that and like I said a word study shows it.
Stan Wayne
Good grief
Dan Irving
If to God, a day is as a thousand years; then a day can be a million years, as well.
Dan Irving
and the next million years, but a mere day.
Jim Daniel
You are abusing the text.
Varnel Watson
instead of amusing the text? 🙂
Dan Irving
Peter’s meaning is God is timeless. His context is eschatology, ie. “when will the end come” that has been prophesied. BTW, I’m a bit taken aback by how quicly and easily you accuse someone of “abusing a text,” Mr. Daniel.
Brian Crisp
The age of the world is something noone knows but God. You can’t say with fact that the earth is only 6000 years old that is ridiculous. It may be billions or trillions for all we know.