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In walked the last time on earth patriarch happened and quite a lot of interesting events not lost on the people of believers recognized scientist in the bosom of the Bulgarian Orthodox Church. They had talked and obgovoreni many questions concerning the future of the native Orthodox community. The unique chance for which this is a brief question is not the very death of the patriarch, and the believers is the ability to look around and looked at the works of the representatives of the senior clergy to recognize properly the situation which already extremely tense, due to the increased media interest in the church and see through the intentions of individuals and groups of people standing largely outside the church community, but silently declaring interest to influence the future development of the processes in our religious community in his own favor. Sorry to have to note that the trends that we have seen are more anxious than excited.
The fact of the death of the patriarch became one metaphorically opening Pandora’s box from which sprang sinful evil – human desires, passions and personal selfishness. The time in which we live is undoubtedly more intense and more transparent than that of the 70s of last century. In the biblical sense, that nothing can remain hidden, we feel that the occurrence of this message is executed even too quickly, which in turn leads to a glut of believers with information. From then the result is a state of fullness of the senses of people and their indifference to what is happening. This is the difficulty which believers in hard can recognize the landmark events happening in their surroundings.
The unique opportunity that the Lord allowed to His faithful is just to listen to the voice of God and to establish how wrong it is to deify and full time individuals from the hierarchy of the church. Worrying trends that people who are sensitive to suspicious events in the senior clergy perceive are not groundless. Moreover, now clearly delineated and more prominent than ever. Unfortunately, not many believers who manage to open eyes and ears and to recognize the right way out of the crisis, in which the human side of the Bulgarian Orthodox Church, starting with staff, financial and all other technical issues serving God. Key issue is even more important – the question of conscience as a shell of faith is not even mentioned.
This place can not be overlooked issue of sweeping problems under the carpet of the premises of the Synod Office for many decades. Insufficient vigilance on the part of senior clergy could blow up the situation of human impasse. Samozabravyaneto and forgetting that the Church has as its Chapter Lord Jesus Christ will once again have to pay the cost of discouraging believers, bringing confusion and temptation in the souls of members of the church and once again astray. Interest of the latter have multiple groups of people. In short conclusion can be summarized that the unique opportunity that God allows is now so important that, if omitted, you will probably need the institution of the Bulgarian Orthodox Church for many years to be tortured and paralyzed. The Church, however, the living Church, that which God created, thank God is not of this world and has a beginning but no end, so the gates of hell will not prevail against u.
Varnel Watson
Here we go Randal a good article posted by I think William DeArteaga few years back and was NOT well received by our Pentecostal Charismatics
I Will start with you last question to you – – – in Pentecostal liturgy order
at ANY given moment ANY one in the congregation can feel/get/experience the move of the Holy Spirit and start prophecy in unknown tongues that may be
HOW is this gonna work out with the priestly lexicon being read in order as sanctioned by the Patriarch? Give it to happen 2-3-4-5 times this year and that many next in in a decade your congregation will a whole annual cycle behind the other churches and way out of the will of the Patriarch š
Randal W Deese
Pentecostalism has much further diversity in practice then you or Arteaga have experienced
Randal W Deese
For example, I spent many years in a group of Pentecostal churches that believed that the spiritual gifts needed to be brought to the front of the church in an orderly fashionā¦ Not just allowing free fall in the congregation
Varnel Watson
You are saying good things but you are not responding to my observation š I’ve been in an Orthodox church Aint no way someone interrupts you while you are doing you homily and start speaking in tongues as they do in our church Dont know how catholics or anglicans do it either
Randal W Deese
Troy Day You are missing my pointā¦ It is not necessary to interrupt the serviceā¦ You just include a space in the service for spiritual gifts
Varnel Watson
Randal W FURTHER You are probably NOT aware that patriarchs before yours have tried to establish Protestant connection. It was impossible in practice and theology then it is impossible in practice and theology now
In 1558 the patriarch of Constantinople, Joasaph II, sent a deacon named Demetrios Mysos to Wittenberg to learn more about the new movement in the West. He spoke directly with Melenchton but did NOT work out Another Lutheran embassy of a more imposing character, headed by the well-known Tubingen divines Andrea; and Crusius, visited Constantinople during the patriarchate of Jercmias (1576 to 1581). But both missions remained without result. The differences in theology and practice were just too great to even begin talking about it
Randal W Deese
Actually the Lutherans reached out to the patriarch
Varnel Watson
Demetrios Mysos was no Lutheran Was not Greek either He was plain Orthodox that traveled a lot on business patriarch of Constantinople sent him personally but to no avail
Randal W Deese
Troy Day http://orthochristian.com/61852.html
Varnel Watson
mhm š His reply reached the theologians of Germany in 1576, and they worked diligently to reply to the Patriarchās objections, making several clarifications on their viewpoints (especially as related to āJustification by Faithā)
… while standing firm on their beliefs regarding the existence of only two sacraments and the incorrectness of praying to reposed saints. /emphasis on the last clause mine
Randal W Deese
Troy Day The problem is, you have to discover if you believe that Jesus was lying when he said that he was going to build his church starting in his dayā¦ Are you saying that the gates of hell prevailed all these years?
Varnel Watson
Randal W Deese as mentioned yesterday Calling Patros ā Father a holy Priest : even the early Bogomils, Cathars and Paulikenians denied the patriarsy of the Orthodox Patriarch and would NOT call neither their priests nor the Orthodox Father, non the less Holy Father => SO much for Orthodox patriarchy within classical Pentecostalism
I have not yet met ANY Pentecostal that would disagree with Matthew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’
You may have a chance with NEO-charismatics BUT classical Pentecostal – no way
Randal W Deese
That scripture is so out of contextā¦ Are you serious?
Randal W Deese
It also says not to call it a man teacherā¦ Do you follow that?
Varnel Watson
I am absolutely positively serious – DO you have ANY way to press the basic doctrine of Protestants to your pope? i.e. Priesthood of ALL believers, not just priests? No Pentecostal church would ever go without itā¦ or call priests holy father “”
Randal W Deese
Troy Day If you want to debate this, I would love to do itā¦ Where can we go where it would just be you and I debating
Randal W Deese
There is no scripture in the Bible that encourages anybody to be called pastorā¦
Randal W Deese
“a text without a context is a pretext for a proof text.” Every text has a context. To quote a passage out of context is to remove that passage from its surrounding text, thus, creating a distorted meaning. This you did!