Posted by Timothy Carter in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post


(Every One Is A Separate Issue even though it may happen seemingly at the same time. OR Is all of this this same thing? )

  • Repentance. Mark 1:15; Luke 13:3; Acts 3:19.
  • Justification. Romans 5:1; Titus 3:7.
  • Regeneration. Titus 3:5.
  • New birth. John 3:3; 1 Peter 1:23; 1 John 3:9.
  • Sanctification subsequent to justification. Romans 5:2; 1 Corinthians 1:30; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Hebrews 13:12.
  • Holiness. Luke 1:75; 1 Thessalonians 4:7; Hebrews 12:14.
  • Water baptism. Matthew 28:19; Mark 1:9, 10; John 3:22, 23; Acts 8:36, 38.
  • Baptism with the Holy Ghost subsequent to cleansing; the enduement of power for service. Matthew 3:11; Luke 24:49, 53; Acts 1:4-8.
  • The speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance as the initial evidence of the baptism in the Holy Ghost. John 15:26; Acts 2:4; 10:44-46; 19:1-7.

John Kissinger [08/22/2015 10:57 AM]
Sanctification subsequent to justification a SECOND work of grace is CORRECT

David Lavoie [08/22/2015 1:11 PM]
An initial sign of the Baptism. 2cor 12:29,30,31.

Timothy Carter [08/22/2015 2:25 PM]
David Lavoie please check your address – 2 Corinthians 12 only has 21 versus.

David Lavoie [08/22/2015 2:35 PM]
(y) πŸ™‚ 1Cor.12:29,30,31. … πŸ™‚

Timothy Carter [08/22/2015 3:35 PM]
Please explain how this is the initial sign of Baptism with Holy Spirit. How can we say TONGUES is THE FIRST thing that happens when you are baptized? If you don’t have tongues experience you don’t have Holy Spirit Baptism? Please show with the Word. This Group to so-called Pentecostal self appointed Theologions are all over the past.

David Lavoie [08/22/2015 3:40 PM]
No, I think it’s wrong to Say Tounges Are The Only initial evedence: Based on That Verse.

Timothy Carter [08/22/2015 3:55 PM]
Is tongues the first thing that happens? If so what Biblical origin is there?

John Kissinger [08/22/2015 4:08 PM]
If you don’t have tongues experience you don’t have Holy Spirit Baptism! I second that…

David Lavoie [08/22/2015 4:08 PM]
Not Necessarily, I think Because Tounges arn’t Given To Everybody; Every Single Person.
The Acts Verses Were About God’s Breaking in on New People Groups; as Peter Said “He Gave Them The gift of the Holy Spirit as He Did Us, And who was I to forbid Them.
The Holy Spirit According To Jesus Was Given To Impart “Power” To Witness.
Witnessing Convincingly To His Ressurection.

John Kissinger [08/22/2015 4:11 PM]
so when it says “And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance” that was not everybody, every single person? Sure dont look to me like it says and there were some filled and some spoke? Please explain more

David Lavoie [08/22/2015 7:25 PM]
1Cor.12:29,30,31: Paul: All are not apostles, are they? All are not propets, are They? All are not Teachers, are They? All are not workers of Miracles are They? All do not have Gifts of Healing’, Do They? ALL Do Not SPEAK WITH TOUNGES, DO They? ALL do not interpret, Do They?
But Earnestly Desire The Greater Gifts, and I will show you a more Excellent way.
… On into Real and True Agape.
Not All.

David Lavoie [08/22/2015 7:29 PM]
THAT’S WHY I THINK Saying it is THE “ONLY” INITIAL Evidence; hurts some people.

David Lavoie [08/22/2015 7:30 PM]
THAT’S WHY I THINK Saying it is THE “ONLY” INITIAL Evidence; hurts some people.

John Kissinger [08/22/2015 10:45 PM]
Nevertheless, this is classic Pentecostal pneumatology. And dont forget holiness and having to be sanctified before being baptized

David Lavoie [08/22/2015 11:13 PM]
πŸ™‚ Were all Still Learnin,
Why sometimes I try to walk Through Walls. Lol

Timothy Carter [08/23/2015 7:29 AM]
What if the Holy Spirit gives different types of gifts of TONGUES? One is the First evidence (depends on the person which one). Each type has a different ministry. Different Kinds of TonguesDifferent Kinds of Tongues is gift #8 of the 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit and it’s our 9th article in our 10 part series on the

Timothy Carter [08/23/2015 7:31 AM]
David Lavoie and B we need more people in this conversation ?

Pack Rat [08/23/2015 7:52 AM]

John Kissinger [08/23/2015 7:59 AM]
T-37 Alan N Carla Smith

Timothy Carter [08/23/2015 9:49 AM]
Pack Rat what?????? That has nothing to do with this toic????

David Lavoie [08/23/2015 11:29 AM]
TOUNGES are ennumerated in 1Cor. 14 as 1. GIVEN TO EDIFY ONESELF, 2. GIVEN FOR BRINGING FORTH A MESSAGE And finally 3. As a Sign To believers: believers who understand The Signifigance of it.
Still, I Think cause of 1Cor.12:29,30,31, and personal experience it’s better to class Toungs as An initial Sign, and not The initial…
It dos’nt Hurt to Teach it as Commen experience or Biblical manifestation.
We Should.

John Kissinger [08/23/2015 11:35 AM]
Eschatology is ALSO an INTERESTING TOPIC OF PENTECOSTAL THEOLOGICAL DISCUSSION THAT KEEPS COMING UP Jon Sellers Pack Rat Alan N Carla Smith especially within the next 34 days

Pack Rat [08/23/2015 12:07 PM]

Pack Rat [08/23/2015 12:11 PM]
Timothy Carter JOEL 2: 27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

Pack Rat [08/23/2015 12:16 PM]
The Holy Spirit made this relative to the gifts of the Spirit,

Jon Sellers [08/23/2015 12:36 PM]
From the Assemblies of God I learned that tongues was the initial evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. From John Wimber I learned that tongues was an evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Jon Sellers [08/23/2015 12:42 PM]
I think the best research on this is Rick Walston’s book, “The Speaking in Tongues Controversy”. To make the experiences of the book of acts normative and prescriptive seems to be a misreading of the intent of that book. The purpose of the sending of the Holy Spirit was to empower us to be witnesses for Christ. All of the gifts including tongues are part of the equipping of the church for ministry and edification. Furthermore, the work and role of the Holy Spirit in our lives is an essential part of our very salvation. So his work goes much further than the gifts and tongues.

John Kissinger [08/23/2015 12:43 PM]
Controversy? It should be a normal practice from the Bible!

Jon Sellers [08/23/2015 12:45 PM]
I agree. I think it was normative for the church to speak in tongues in the first century. We see that not only in acts but also in other references in Paul’s letters. However, it is a controversy because today we have much confusion on the subject and we have a failure to experience and operate in the gifts of the Spirit in general in the church.

Jon Sellers [08/23/2015 12:45 PM]


  • Jon Ray
    Reply August 21, 2016

    Jon Ray

    Sanctification subsequent to justification a SECOND work of grace is CORRECT

  • Charles Page
    Reply August 21, 2016

    Charles Page

    subsequent to regeneration!

  • Street Preacherz
    Reply May 21, 2017

    Street Preacherz

    REPENT you land lovers!
    “They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters;
    These see the works of the LORD, and his wonders in the deep.”
    – Psalm 107:23,24

  • Troy Day
    Reply May 21, 2017

    Troy Day

    Which on the 10 would be of interest?

    • Street Preacherz
      Reply May 21, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      Has to be justification. That moment when God in the person of the Holy Spirit bears witness that he has heard your cries for mercy and delivered you from guilt and condemnation. But for me it’s the presentation of the gospel. How can I enable or put someone in the postion to make the right decision. For Jesus Christ.
      My good friend and mentor is saying repentance. “Because people don’t understand it. And because if you commit a sin you go into guilt and shame. But the two are different” guilt is I’ve done something wrong. Shame is I am something wrong”

    • Troy Day
      Reply May 22, 2017

      Troy Day

      INtend to discuss this with David Lewayne Porter as soon as I get a chance today

    • Street Preacherz
      Reply May 22, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      A good pastor is a gift from God.
      Even when they get in your business. Ouch…

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