What made Pentecostals drop the theological belief in Spirit Baptism?

Posted by Stephen Williams in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

What made Pentecostals drop the theological belief that Spirit Baptism prepared one for the Rapture?

122 Comments

  • Reply December 9, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    Do you mean like need Holy Ghost baptism to be saved or… ?

  • Reply December 9, 2016

    Gilberto Rosado

    When the thief on the cross next to Jesus died!

  • Reply February 4, 2017

    Tony Conger

    Didn’t know they did

  • Reply February 4, 2017

    Stan Wayne

    Not dropped

  • Reply February 4, 2017

    Levi Chavis

    Because baptism is immersion in water. There is a misconception about the Day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit fell on them as cloven tongues of fire. That was for them to be in one accord so they would all understand the message that Peter was preaching to them. That message was baptism in Jesus name. After all, Acts 2:38 is the only scripture in God’s Word that tells us how we receive the Holy Spirit. And there is only One Baptism.
    Ephesians 4:4-6
    4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called;

    5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

    6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

    Hope this helps. God Bless

  • Reply February 4, 2017

    Street Preacherz

    Backsliding

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Levi Chavis

      What is backsliding?

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Levi Chavis

      Street Preacherz, I don’t. If we were predestinated before the foundation of the world as God’s Word says, how can we lose our sonship?

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      The theology of it of it or the practice of it?

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Levi Chavis

      Of what?

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      You’re funny who talking about losing sonship.

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Levi Chavis

      I guess you’ll have to clarify what you mean by backsliding

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      Guessing is for backsliders

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Levi Chavis

      Lol, I’m not the one making a vague comment like backsliding. You would help your claim by providing some scripture. ☺

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      Very plain

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      I don’t claim anything but Christ crucified dead and risen again on the third day. Maybe this will help you. Backsliding is when your nieghbors wife looks better that the man bringing you the good word of God on Sunday morning. Or when the offering comes around and you say. I already gave.

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      “The backslider in heart will be filled with the fruit of his ways, and a good man will be filled with the fruit of his ways.”
      ‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭14:14

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      Always nice to have a Bible student in the mix!!!

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Levi Chavis

      You misspelled the word “faithless”, lol. It’s not backslider. smh ?‍♂️

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      To address the real question how can we help the new believer find or receive the glorious infilling of the Holy Spirit?
      1. Talk about it
      2. Prove that it is something to be desired.
      3. Address doubt and make the baptism of the holy Spirit the known and revealed will of God.
      4. For this our died. Ref. John 7:39

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Levi Chavis

      There is only one scripture in God’s Word that shows how we receive the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      I’m all ears

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      Levi Chavis that is ridiculous

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      I hope it’s the REPENT one. I like to keep it simple. I’m not a brainiac you guys.

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Levi Chavis

      Stan Wayne, please show me another scripture, just one, other than Acts 2:38.

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      You are proof texting – I don’t know if you even understand hermeneutics

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Levi Chavis

      Let’s stick with the scriptures and leave out hermeneutics. ?

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Stan Wayne

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      Levi Chavis well you are not understanding Acts 2:38 as a result

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Levi Chavis

      Stick to the scriptures Stan. I’ll give you time to find a scripture, other than Acts 2:38, that shows is how we receive the Holy Spirit. Please post it when you find it. Thanks in advance.

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      Here is another related passage to chew on – the lesson is that many (not most) present day Pentecostals are backsliding on this – they lack belief :

      “Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?

      Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—”
      ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:2, 5‬ ‭ESV‬‬

  • Reply February 4, 2017

    Levi Chavis

    What was the original question?

  • Reply February 4, 2017

    Levi Chavis

    Stephen Williams, I’ll go look it up, thanks!

  • Reply February 4, 2017

    Dan Irving

    I don’t know the situation in the east, but on the west coast, Pentecostal churches (which consists mostly of Foursquare and AG) do not appear to stand by the doctrine, and are more apt to dis-affirm it. And, it is, not surprisingly, extremely rare to hear of anyone receiving the BHS out here. The reason? At one time it was weak-willed, unbelieving ministry that did not want to incur controversy over the doctrine. Today, it is a mixture of ignorance and weakness.

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Dan Irving

      And, a lack of preaching on the atoning blood.

    • Reply February 4, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      “Tongues is a controversy.”, true enough. I heard that in a sermon once. As a cause (or why) people do not preach this great and important doctrine.

  • Reply February 7, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Dan Irving East or West – what would be the difference there?

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Dan Irving

      My impression (especially after joining this chat group) is that the doctrine has been better protected in your part of the country. The most significant attack on the doctrine has been on the west coast particularly via the Vineyard and Calvary Chapel, which have had so much influence out here. But, I know the east and southeast has its “hot spots” of strange doctrine and manifestations as well.

  • Reply February 7, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Well the Bible Belt is the what it is BUT I also see that Canadian Pentecostals have moved away from sound doctrine after the Toronto blessing http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/the-toronto-blessing-what-did-we-learn/

  • Reply February 7, 2017

    Dan Irving

    Yes. And where can that be traced to? Anaheim; where Pentecostal doctrine was discarded and the seeking after signs was elevated.

  • Reply February 7, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Not sure about the Canadian deviations in theology. I am just now learning that Canadian neo-charismatics too do not believe in speaking in tongues. This is about as bad as any baptist cessationists out here

  • Reply February 7, 2017

    Stan Wayne

    Can any of these wild claims be documented with citations?

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Dan Irving

      Stan Wayne Absolutely they can.

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      Ok Canadian Neo Pentecostals do not believe in tongues:

      _______________1

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Varnel Watson

      There were several blog posts here just recently that expressly showed that. Scroll down and re read if necessary. And did I say Neo Pentecostals? Because what I really said was neo-charismatics

  • Reply February 7, 2017

    Dan Irving

    I think (for anyone sound/firm in their Pentecostal orthodoxy) a reading of Wimber’s books (e.g. Power Evangelism; Power Healing; Power Points; Riding the Third Wave, etc.) is an excellent means of exercising their discernment and gain insight into the origins of the present condition of error that exists in much of the charismatic world. BTW, Troy Day, evangelical cessationists were the primary targets of Wagner and Wimber’s ministerial efforts, as they had no grounding in sound pneumatology.

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Varnel Watson

      I agree with the targeted group. But was this target only because AG cut off Wagner in the very beginning? Has it had the chance he would have infiltrated our AG denomination too as discussed prior with Terry Wiles

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Dan Irving

      Wimber and Wagner traveled extensively together throughout the U.S. (esp. Pentecostal churches in the southeast) as “Church Growth advisers.” Although disavowing Pentecostal teaching, Wagner wrote extensively about the coveted power in the Pentecostal churches as a means to “church growth.”

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Dan Irving

      Street Preacherz Finney was a wonderful theologian. I’ve never read Spurgeon, but he comes highly regarded by wise teachers. I’m not familiar with any issues as to Wigglesworth. I have one his books, but have not found opportunity yet.

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      The Lord allowed me to talk to some people about their soul today and pray with them. The third wave never came up thank God! Am I missing something here? I feel gloriously stupid. How about Smith Wigglesworth is he OK? I’m reading Finney’s lectures on Revival. But if you want to pray read Spurgeon you’ll get right in!!! lol

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      Spurgeon was Calvinist Finney the opposite. Wigglesworth is above reproach with long history of winning Souls for Jesus Christ. And strong influence for Pentecostalism. The one book he is credited with is ever increasing faith from lectures at A of G college at founding if I’m remembering correctly. Spurgeon knew Jesus and labored all his life for the gospel. With a strong heritage of puritan theology.

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Dan Irving

      Street Preacherz The way the Third Wave may come up for you is when you attempt to pray for a convert to receive the Holy Spirit. If they say, “I already have the Spirit, and I just need to activate what’s already in me,” then you will know they have had either Third Wave or a radical brand of Charismatic teaching.

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      That might not fly. lol

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Dan Irving

      Finney is fiercely criticized by Calvinsists. But I have found his teachings well-based, and I learned much from him in my younger days. There are many great Calvinistic teachers, as well. I don’t find the two principles contradictory, until they are taken to unbiblical extreme.

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      In need grace and I need to obey also. Not a problem for me. That’s my take on the great divide.
      I don’t cast people out for crazy beliefs. I stand for the Bible and rebuke sin. And that usually works out for me. This is where you need a gentle but tough pastor. I fellowship with any one that calls on the name of Christ in sincerely. I do it for the cause of Christ. And of course I love them!!!

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      Forgive me Mr. Dan Irving I gotta hit the rack. I need grace and best place to get is early

    • Reply February 12, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      Sorry what’s evangelical cessionist?

  • Reply February 7, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Neo-charismatic movement are a category of evangelical churches who teach about the gifts of the Spirit, Spiritual warfare and Power evangelism. Charismatic Christianity incorporates Pentecostal, Evangelical charismatic movement, and neo-charismatic churches.

  • Reply February 7, 2017

    Stephen Williams

    Troy Day, this is NOT the original question I posted in the “Pentecostal Theology” forum and in my opinion misrepresents me. This is dishonest and very disappointing. Further, I posted this very fact a couple of days ago, and my posts were removed. Please explain.

  • Reply February 7, 2017

    Street Preacherz

    Could it be because preaching an “experience” is not sound doctrine? I think that’s what is usually taught for good hermeneutics. Does that make sense?

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Stephen Williams

      Do you mean Spirit Baptism in general or that it prepared one for the Rapture?

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      The question as it is now. Holy Spirit baptism. If taught as an experience, (and it is) is improper. Like using parables for doctrine. But Bible school days are long ago. I just read the Bible (and good authors) pray it in and try to walk it out. I’m reading a great piece right now about Spurgeon and Moody and Sankey differences on Justification by faith and relevance of good works and good fruit as evidence. If I knew how I would post it up. Because this will come to a head soon.

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Stephen Williams

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Stephen Williams

      Jesus told his disciples that they would be baptized in the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:5), meaning that the Holy Spirit would come upon them (Luke 24:39, Acts 1:8) giving them power for witness. This was what John the Baptist said the Messiah would do as part of his work (Matt 3:11). The idea of the Spirit coming upon someone to provide charismatic empowerment was not only a NT function of the Spirit, the Spirit also came upon the tabernacle artisans, prophets, kings (eg David in 1 Sam 16, Samson in the book of Judges) and judges to equip them for their God ordained vocations. A reading of Luke-Acts shows that the Spirit was active in giving supernatural revelation, insight, prophecy, proclamation, etc. Jesus Himself was anointed by the Spirit (Luke 3, Luke 4 quoting Is 61, Acts 10:38) and in Acts 2, we see that Spirit coming upon the 120 in the upper room and subsequently others such as in Acts 10 with Cornelius and Acts 19 with the disciples from Ephesus. Thus, the function of the Spirit’s filling/ clothing with power/ coming upon/ Baptism, is not soteriological, but charismatic in nature- not conversion/initiation, but power for mission and therefore a doctrinally sound OT to NT teaching.

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      Great theology does not mean great practice… with luv???
      Please don’t misunderstand. Teaching it as an experience is wrong because experience varies. Teach it, as it is, sound doctrine. I simply meant my remark to contribute to conversation for Holy Spirit baptism and prayer in tongues as God gives the utterance. I am praying for men to receive the infilling for help in prayer to God and for help in holy living

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Stephen Williams

      Street Preacherz true. Not sure I follow your point. You are questioning the hermeneutical and experiential basis of Spirit Baptism. Do you not think that if 120 had the Spirit come upon them and they spoke with tongues, that would not be an experience of the Spirit’s power and presence?

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Dan Irving

      Stephen Williams The baptism of the Holy Spirit has no redemptive purpose? Are you serious?

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Stephen Williams

      Dan Irving yes it does have a redemptive purpose: it empowers for witness/mission.

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Dan Irving

      Many are fixated upon the “empowerment,” aspect of the Holy Spirit. By so doing, they miss His more fundamental purpose, which is redemptive. 1) The BHS is our induction INTO Christ’s body, the Church [I Cor 12:13] 2) The BHS seals us unto our eventual REDEMPTION (Eph 4:30] 3) We are sanctified by the Holy Spirit (Rom. 15:16) 4) We are washed and regenerated by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5) I could continue, but need I? It should be clear, that the Holy Spirit is integral to our individual redemption.

    • Reply February 7, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      That you for your insight fella’s. I don’t think my simple approach is to far off. There is a lot of ground to cover in just these short posts. I don’t think we could exhaust the person, character, ministry of the holy Spirit. He is through out the Bible. And certainly not limited to what we call baptism. God says, “My Spirit shall not always strive with men..
      Meaning he certainly does. May He strive with all men everywhere. And may we cooperate with Him!!!

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Stephen Williams

      Dan Irving the Holy Spirit is indeed integral to our individual redemption, but the Baptism in the H/infilling/clothing with power/ Spirit coming upon is charismatic, not soteriological. This is consistent through both Testaments. This is not to say that this is the only function

  • Reply February 7, 2017

    Terry Wiles

    Run….

  • Reply February 8, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Truth is, the more believed teaching was that you cannot go to heaven without the baptism of the Holy Spirit – not that it prepared you for the Rapture. It was more believed and still is that sanctification prepares you for the rapture. But there were many groups in early Pentecostalism who taught you have to be baptized in order to be saved. Few still teach that in several places. They used to call it the fullness of the Spirit without which no one could get to Heaven and see God

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      Thank you. But I thought it was the blood of Christ. Jesus is the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. Believing in him saves a man from sin and judgment and makes his heart new and holy and fit for service.

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Varnel Watson

      True I am just pointing out there were historic groups believing the whole truth and nothing but the truth

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      Yes thank you. These are treacherous waters. A good pilot is hard to find. And we’re back to the ministry of the Holy Spirit! He is the best teacher. He not only knows the material He knows the student!!! lol

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Varnel Watson

      Treacherous waters is right. I was not aware till recently Canadian neo-Charismatics now reject openly speaking in tongues

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      Why shouldn’t men hear a soul cry out to heaven in a language born of God?

  • Reply February 8, 2017

    Dan Irving

    Troy Day I believe there is a tremendous misunderstanding re: the BHS among Pentecostals reflected in this thread, as well as some of the comments above (e.g. see my dialogue with Stephen Williams above) which renders a disconnect between the BHS and the redemption/salvation/sanctification of the believer. The confusion resides in a very narrow perspective upon the work of the Holy Spirit (common among Pentecostals) that confines his purposes to a few verses of scripture near the end of Luke’s gospel and in Acts. This mindset would seem to virtually negate a wealth of scripture that ties the Holy Spirit firmly to the ongoing work of redemption in the believer. As to this thread, you touch upon a tender issue that has alienated Pentecostals from the main body of Christianity since Azusa Street; which is equating the BHS with salvation; which appears the opposite extreme. Paul renders it clear the Church is baptized by the Spirit (I Cor 12:13) as a called-out entity separated from the world. But if we are not separated from the world; sanctified; we are made reprobate. The apostolic warning is clear on this. Thus, the BHS is NOT equivalent to salvation. Yet, his purpose primarily is to guide the process of bringing us into the knowledge of God and separation from this world in all aspects of our being, body, soul, and spirit. (I Thess 5:23); a point which is resisted by many Pentecostals (again, see Stephen Williams above, and he is, by no means alone in this view. Neither are the non-baptized lost, as is clear in the prophecies of Isaiah which speak of the “saved nations,” as salvation is as simple as merely having faith in one’s heart. On the other hand, the church is told their salvation is difficult (I Pet 4:18) This is where you might disagree, but there are certain truths in Calvinism which help rectify these apparent paradoxes. Maybe I’ll plan a video on this subject.

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      Nice. Thanks

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Stephen Williams

      Dan, I was not dismissing the Spirit’s work regarding redemption. Paul deals with these themes heavily in his epistles. Rather, and not only from a few verses at the end of Luke and in Acts, but the charismatic empowering motif is consistent from the OT and NT. Jesus Himself stated that Baptism in the Holy Spirit was for power to be witnesses unto Him. Of course we know that this is not the only function of the Spirit.

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Stephen Williams

      Gordon Fee’s “God’s Empowering Presence” is an excellent treatment the Holy Spirit in Paul’s epistles. Lots dealing with salvation/sanctification.

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Dan Irving

      Stephen Williams Thank you for clarifying your position. My perception from watching Pentecostal preaching has led me to conclude there is a deep disconnect generally in Pentecostal soteriology.

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Stephen Williams

      Dan Irving true. Though PAOC (Same as AoG), I am very grateful for CoG scholars such as Steven Land and John Christopher Thomas who have enriched me and my thinking and have made me think more on the subject of sanctification as well. Chris Thomas was a speaker at our General Conference last year and what he brought to the conference was awesome stuff!

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      Can youse guys try plain language? Soteriology? there was one the other day evangelical ecosystems or something

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Dan Irving

      Street Preacherz the doctrine/theology concerning salvation

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Dan Irving

      The amazing thing, is when the Grace of God breaks upon the heretofore unbelieving world, they embrace the baptism; when the Grace of God breaks upon the repentant Pentecostal, they embrace the unbelieving world.

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      God willing I’m starting a systematic theology next week. I hope to get up to speed. But for me it’s more important to break it down. The Bible is hard enough for some folks. But that’s no excuse fire low living or ignorance. So I thank you for your help on these important matters.
      I can’t help but think of Spurgeon. He started pastoring a country church at 19 and didn’t have “letters”. He was hated by the higher learning crowd. But his theme was always the love of God and devotion to Him. And they could never find fault with him. lol

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Dan Irving

      Street Preacherz Some teachers are like flat, firm stones, one can place one’s foot without fear of stumbling; Spurgeon must have been one of those.

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      He was Calvinist but personally lead men to Christ. A study of him and Finney is a great balance.

  • Reply February 8, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Not sure how “equating the BHS with salvation” came about. I was speaking as per the early Pentecostal believe that salvation (separate from) sanctification (separate from) BHS were needed for ones Spiritual Fullness and prepared him/her for their walk with the Lord and going to heaven. The conversation you mentioned was on a separate topic as related strictly to the Rapture of the Church which I personally do not believe was a thing among early Pentecostals. As thorough as your teachings are you may be able to sort out between all this deviations. However, I was not addressing “equating the BHS with salvation” but rather early Pentecostal believe that salvation (separate from) sanctification (separate from) BHS were needed for ones Spiritual Fullness. The subject among Spiritual Fullness was a big thing historically and thats why once they were saved, they desired sanctification. Once they were sanctified they desired the HSB.

    Today church folk do not desire sanctification and HSB because they never truly desired to be saved in the first place. They just enjoy coffee and doughnuts on Sunday morning or God forbid cheese and wine on Sunday night. To sum it up – I do not know if one can go to Heaven without the Holy Ghost. Personally, I would not go to the grocery store without the Holy Ghost #noughsaid

  • Reply February 8, 2017

    Levi Chavis

    There is only One baptism in the New Testament, after Christ was resurrected and fulfilled the Old Law.

    -1 Peter 3:20-21
    20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
    21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ

    -Acts 2:36-39
    36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”
    37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
    38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

    -Ephesians 4:4-6
    4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called;
    5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
    6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

  • Reply February 8, 2017

    Dan Irving

    Levi Chavis There is water baptism, and there is Spirit baptism.

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Levi Chavis

      Scripture please. Thank you

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Varnel Watson

      Baptisms the Bible speaks of in the NT:
      1. John in water (Lk. 7: 29-30; Jn. 1: 31-33; TO 19: 3)
      2. Christ’s baptism in water (Jn. 3:22; 4: 1-2)
      3. Baptism of suffering (Lk. 12:50)
      4. Baptism in the cloud (1 Cor. 10: 2)
      5. Baptism in water for Christians (Matt. 28:19; Mk. 16:16; Acts 2: 38-41; 8: 12-16, 36-38; 9:18; 10: 47-48; 16:15 33; 18: 8; 19: 5 1 Cor. 1: 13-17; 1 Pet. 3:21)
      6. Baptism into Christ and His Body (Rom. 6: 3-7; 1 Cor. 12:13; Gal. 3:27; 1 Pet. 3:21)
      7. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit (Matt. 3:11, 14; 20: 22-23; Mk. 1: 8; 10: 38-39; Lk. 3:16; Jn. 1:33; 7: 37-39 ; Acts 1: 5, 8; 11:16; 19: 2-3)

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Levi Chavis

      I guess I need to clarify what I mean on this subject, ?.
      Ephesians 4:5 plainly states that there is only one baptism. That baptism is throughout the New Testament after Christ died and was the ONLY baptism that the apostles preached.

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Varnel Watson

      Probably not true since the apostles preached baptism in water and in the Spirit. And the NT identifies 7 baptisms. Hopefully you are not oneness and getting to baptism in Jesus only type of theology here

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Levi Chavis

      Troy Day, what is the only scripture in God’s Word that shows how we receive the Holy Spirit?

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Varnel Watson

      Speak plainly my brother. Riddles are for the children !

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Levi Chavis

      I am asking a plain and simple question. What is the only scripture that shows how we receive the Holy Spirit? That is not a riddle my friend.

  • Reply February 8, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Some Bible students have identified seven baptisms in Scripture. The seven baptisms are usually listed as being these:

    1) The baptism of Moses (1 Corinthians 10:1–3) – when the Israelites were delivered from slavery in Egypt, they were “baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.” That is, they were identified with Moses and his deliverance by passing through the Red Sea and following God’s presence in the cloud (Exodus 13:21). Paul uses this as a comparison to the way that Christians are identified with Christ and His salvation. Those who followed Moses passed through the water and were thus initiated into a new life of freedom and Law-keeping; those who follow Jesus Christ, who is greater than Moses, pass through the waters of baptism and are thus initiated to a new life of freedom and grace.

    2) The baptism of John (Mark 1:4) – as John the Baptist preached repentance of sins in preparation for the coming of the Messiah, he baptized people in the Jordan. Those who were baptized by John were showing their faith in John’s message and their need to confess their sin. In Acts 18:24–25, a disciple of John’s named Apollos preaches in Ephesus; however, only knowing the baptism of John and the need for repentance, he needed to be further instructed in the death and resurrection of Christ. Later in the same city, Acts 19:1–7, Paul encounters some more followers of John. These disciples had been baptized for repentance, but they had not heard of the new birth or the Holy Spirit. Paul taught them the whole message of salvation in Christ, and they received the message and were subsequently baptized in Jesus’ name.

    3) The baptism of Jesus (Matthew 3:13–17) – this was Jesus’ act of identifying with sinful humanity. Although Jesus did not need to repent of sin, He came to John to be baptized. John balked at performing the baptism, saying that Jesus should be the one baptizing him (Matthew 3:13–14). But Jesus told John to proceed with the baptism: “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness” (verse 15). In this baptism, Jesus put His stamp of approval on John’s ministry and also began His own. As Jesus came up from the water, the Father spoke from heaven, and the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form upon Jesus (verses 16–17).

    4) The baptism of fire (Matthew 3:11–12) – John prophesied that Jesus would baptize men “with fire.” This speaks of Jesus’ judging the world for its sin (see John 5:22). Immediately after mentioning the baptism by fire, John describes Jesus as overseeing a harvest to come: “His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire” (verse 12; cf. Matthew 13:24–30, 36–43). Those who are judged by Christ in the last day will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15).

    5) The baptism of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13–14; 1 Corinthians 12:13) – John also predicted that Jesus would baptize men with the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11). This is a spiritual baptism, and it is the baptism that saves us. At salvation, we are “immersed” in the Holy Spirit. The Spirit covers us, indwells us, fills us, and makes us a part of the spiritual body of Christ. The baptism of the Spirit is what initiates us into new life in Christ. The first people to experience the baptism of the Spirit were the believers in Acts 2 on the Day of Pentecost. The spiritual entity known as the body of Christ is formed by this baptism: “We were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body” (1 Corinthians 12:13).

    6) The baptism of the cross (Mark 10:35–39) – Jesus used the language of baptism to refer to His sufferings (and those of His disciples). James and John, the Boanerges, had come to Jesus asking for a place of honor in the kingdom. Jesus asked them, “Can you . . . be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?” (Mark 10:38). They replied that they could, and Jesus confirmed it: “You will . . . be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with” (verse 39). The “baptism” Jesus speaks of here is the suffering He was to endure. James and John would suffer, as well.

    7) The baptism of believers (Matthew 28:19) – this is a washing in water to symbolize the action of the Holy Spirit in a believer’s heart. Believer’s baptism is one of the two ordinances given to the church. Different churches practice different modes of baptism, but all who follow Christ should be baptized, since it is commanded by our Lord. Water baptism pictures some wonderful spiritual truths. When we are saved, we are “buried” with Christ and “rise” to newness of life; our sins are “washed away,” and we are cleansed. It is Spirit baptism that saves us, but water baptism is our outward expression of that event. “All of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death[.] We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life” (Romans 6:3–4).

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Levi Chavis

      1 Peter 3:20-21
      20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
      21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ

      Hmm, this shows that water baptism saves us…

    • Reply February 8, 2017

      Levi Chavis

      The Greek word for baptism is “Baptizo”, which literally means “immersion or submersion in water”.

      So, baptism in the Holy Spirit, as you say, is “immersed in water in the Holy Spirit.”

    • Reply February 9, 2017

      Varnel Watson

      So you are a secret oneness Christian or not? #SayItPlainly

    • Reply February 9, 2017

      Levi Chavis

      I’m not “oneness”. I’m a child of God. ?

    • Reply February 9, 2017

      Levi Chavis

      I never can understand why people try to separate, categorize, and designate God’s Word. Some scriptures are considered “Baptist”, some are considered “Oneness”, some are ” COG”, etc, etc, etc.
      I though they were all God’s Word?

      It’s as if some people only want to believe certain scriptures to fit their religion. You know what I mean?

    • Reply February 12, 2017

      Varnel Watson

      Seems you are not filled with the Holy Ghost though

  • Reply February 12, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Dan Irving Street Preacherz It may be time to start a topic and open the subject about cahrismatic cessionists? Seems to be high time for that

    • Reply February 12, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      Men ought to always pray and not faint. I haven’t quit no evangelicalism or Holy Spirit nothing. In fact I’m more wound up now than ever!!!

    • Reply February 12, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      Maybe we could open one on the need for grace and true repentance. That would help me. Can’t speak for anybody else but the order of first principles suggest it’s one doctrine that ought to be mastered in the house of God

  • Reply February 12, 2017

    Dan Irving

    Troy Day Isn’t that an oxymoron?

  • Reply February 12, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Well you tell me brother. I see them all the time now. Semi-reformed theologians claiming partial usage of the gifts without being filled with the Spirit. How can one be baptized with the Holy Ghost without being fully and entirely sanctified?

  • Reply February 12, 2017

    Dan Irving

    What is “entirely sanctified?” Does that mean perfected into God’s image?

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