This is a touchy issue I realize it but what is your views on the United Pentecostal Church? Are they brothers or a cult?
John Kissinger [08/23/2015 12:57 PM]
Already discussed thoroughly. AG resolved it in 1916. Actually, Rick Wadholm Jr is planing a centennial celebration of the event next year http://newsok.com/article/5438939
Peter A Vandever [08/23/2015 12:58 PM]
and what did you come to believe?
John Kissinger [08/23/2015 12:59 PM]
Never had an issue with oneness theology. It was already resolved when growing up. Even Charles Page never had to deal with it
Peter A Vandever [08/23/2015 1:01 PM]
Oneness is still alive in the UPCI
Keith Sartin Jr. [08/23/2015 1:20 PM]
It says 404 page not found. Did it get taken down?
Peyton Gurley [08/23/2015 1:32 PM]
United Pentecostal isn’t the only Oneness group.
Jon Sellers [08/23/2015 1:38 PM]
Based on this article I would not call them a cult either. I think they are in error. But they do believe in Jesus and his work on the cross. They do not deny that Jesus is God in the flesh, but their understanding of the being of God and the incarnation is mistaken.
So I think they are saved by faith, but have several key doctrinal errors that would prevent me from joining their church.
Peter A Vandever [08/23/2015 1:38 PM]
true but 1) they are the biggest 2) I have the most contact with
John Bartlett [08/23/2015 1:39 PM]
Any group which believes or changes the fundamental plan of salvation is considered a cult. Grudem writes that oneness theology has never been accepted as a true part of Christianity. He has a section in his systematic theology book. They fit the definition of a cult.
John Bartlett [08/23/2015 1:40 PM]
Further, they are the old heretical view of modalism reborn. It has been rejected before and should be today as well.
John Kissinger [08/23/2015 1:41 PM]
Peter A Vandever Maybe you need to stop judging numbers by your own experience. Anytime you say MANY is like 2-3 maybe 4. How many is your “most contact” realistically (not evangelistically) considered with?
Peter A Vandever [08/23/2015 1:45 PM]
UPC is 5 million strong.
Peter A Vandever [08/23/2015 1:45 PM]
I have been to UPC churches, I have not been to PAW churches.
John Kissinger [08/23/2015 1:46 PM]
And you’ve dealt with all of them? They are not even the same theologically. I have dealt with a group that believe that the persons of the Trinity are representation(s) only NOT person(s)
Rick Wadholm Jr [08/23/2015 2:32 PM]
I have had lengthy and detailed conversations with several of the UPCI’s leading scholars (Biblical and theological) including fellowshipping around the dinner table several times with their General Superintendent David Bernard. In fact, several times a year I share a hotel room with several of the UPCI scholars over the course of several days. I consider their friendship to be significant in my own life even as I have always been open with them about disagreeing concerning their doctrine of God.
I understand the UPCI to essentially hold to a trinitarian economy of God and a unitarian ontology of God. Thus I find myself able to carry on fellowship with their leadership. However, I have known several of their pastors and members for which I would not continue such fellowship because they misrepresented their belief in God as absolute oneness.
The bigger issue in dealing with the UPCI is legalism and the order of salvation that requires water baptism in Jesus name only and the baptism in the Holy Spirit with the sign of tongues.
I have also had engagements with pastors and leadership from several other Oneness Pentecostal groups, one of which recently moved to a trinitarian confession.
Peter A Vandever [08/23/2015 2:40 PM]
Soteriology is the bigger issue with me. Legalism is a problem in Pentecostal camps. Some AG churches can be just as bad.
Patricia Riley [08/23/2015 3:25 PM]
I don’t think they qualify as a cult, however, their theology is, shall we say…… ummm…. wrong.
Herman Spencer [08/23/2015 3:37 PM]
The church was born on day of Passover Pentecost if you study you will find that many have tried to destroy it but you must be born of the spirit to get to heaven God word stands on it own you can not Chang it many are trying to today the power of God will not by the spirit lead away for his word there name will be moved from. Ok of life if the do. His word is the rock where mosses stood
Christopher Hart [08/23/2015 3:40 PM]
They have essential gospel and Christology right enough to be counted brothers, IMO.
Michael H. Robinson [08/23/2015 3:43 PM]
I always say, if we can talk about Jesus, We can have a conversation.
I was raised Apostolic, I am now a Church of God Pastor, I found that John chap. 17 answered my questions on oneness.
I have many friends still in Apostolic circles and I count them as Brothers and Sisters in Christ.
Herman Spencer [08/23/2015 3:47 PM]
Water baptism is in ward sin of out word confession I have see this for over 50 years when you come out of water. It reps restriction yes you are not ones saved all ways saved you must run the race to the end to cross to the finished the rabbit lost he stops to rest. Lost
Herman Spencer [08/23/2015 3:53 PM]
The thieve one the cross said remember me .jesus siam today you shall be with me in paradise . End of it Jesus do not change in any way what Jesus said there are sheep and goats God will separate them preach Jesus the he is the way the truth and the life
John Kissinger [08/23/2015 4:13 PM]
Christopher Hart the essential Gospel of the Great commission is to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost, UPC insist on baptizing in the name of Jesus Only. Is this different?
Herman Spencer [08/23/2015 4:14 PM]
If they are of the word teaches them with love but be true about the doc. Live with them in the love of god he shows his love live it before them if God is love them let God do the or make the call no I do not. Handl snakes satan is snake in te grass
Jon Sellers [08/23/2015 4:39 PM]
This side of heaven we have a responsibility to teach the truth and to correct error. I believe Oneness is in error. So we should maintain a corrective stance toward their doctrines.
However, it seems to me that their confession of Jesus as Lord and Savior will get them into heaven.
We are saved by faith in Christ not by the perfection of our doctrines. Many will enter heaven with error in doctrine.
Charles Page [08/23/2015 4:54 PM]
there is hope for me!!!
[09/02/2015 7:00 AM]
agree. I can never connect with the articles from this fb group. It takes me to a page with a picture of the title and then a bunch of disgusting ads and it leaves me with nothing but what I’m typing on right here! Where are your articles? When I try to find them they say page does not exist!