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| PentecostalTheology.com
“…Then they came for the Jews,
and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—
and there was no one left to speak for me.”
~Rev. Martin Niemöller
Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne was arrested for having church on Sunday.
The charges: unlawful assembly and a violation of health emergency rules.
The state administrative order issued restriction on all “public or private gatherings, including community, civic, public leisure, faith-based events…” The “safer at home” allowed leave only for essential work or to pick up food and medication.
For us Pentecostals, going to church is like going for food or medication. Our supernatural healing proceeds from the atoning work of Christ. Our gathering together represents the resurrection of His body from the dead and our own resurrection from all disease, sickness and even death. It is a spiritual self-fulfilling need guaranteed in the Constitution: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Yet, during this state of emergency, both second degree misdemeanor charges somehow prevailed over the First Amendment.
Now, I can understand if many do not like Rev. Browne’s approach or praxis. I like him as much as the next preacher or practitioner of theology. But the seven principles of the Constitution still stand and right after federalism and republicanism it still reads individual rights.
In America where until today, Romans 13 carried a much different interpretation than when cited by communist agents in China, North Korea, Eastern Europe and beyond. And where since July 4, 1776 the Biblical imperative “Honor the King” aligns with Paul’s “bond servant of Jesus Christ,” meaning: not a slave to any earthly king, empire or any other new world order. For before anything else, every ambassador of the Kingdom of Heaven is accountable first to the Heavenly Call.
It is in this sense that today we are all Rodney Howard-Browne! If not, tomorrow we all could be arrested for having church on Sunday.
Varnel Watson
AS PROMISED Peter Vandever Joseph Castillo
TO ALL PENTECOSTALS still keeping quite today
THEY DID a FINE JOB SHUTTING YOU UP #there #WeAreAll
HOW LONG?
is this period of time only temporary? The Tribulation will be only 7 yrs temporary
Stan Cooke just explained – A Full Walmart parking lot.
I did not see the Health Department
Or local police counting the people to make certain that only 10 people were in the store at one time.
There was not anyone present keeping the people
6 feet apart.
Now you convince me that this is fair to other businesses… or to Churches. This is selective enforcement.
Convince me by Law, that any of these rules, orders and regulations are Constitutional. You cannot, because everything that has been placed on the American people violates the Constitution.
Many businesses will close forever
Because of this overreach of government… because of this violation of the Constitution. Many people will have their savings depleted, their retirement destroyed, their job lost and homes repossessed.|
Romans 13:1-2 1 Peter 2:13-17 Titus 3:1 All scriptures WRONGLY used by communistic tyrants to against the church Robert Cox said it ALL WITH this – did you know Romans 13 was….. Written by an apostle who spent about 6 years of in a Roman prison for civil disobedience? Did you know that??
Francisco Arriola and YES under this Pres. TRUMp
Joseph Castillo
Troy Day Nice
Varnel Watson
Joseph Castillo I am not the author but did sent it to CT, CP and Lee Grady @ charisma NOT expecting ANY of them to publish it any time soon though 🙂
Lee Grady
Troy I’m not on staff there anymore. I don’t make those decisions
Varnel Watson
Lee Grady and for a good reason I hope Still love you and cherish great memories from your work #respect
Ray E Horton
I’ve arrived at the conclusion, after much thought and prayer, that while the government may be wrong in enforcing these emergency measures on the church, we are wrong to ignore them and endanger innocent people. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Varnel Watson
put your theory to test during the Great Tribulation NOW this is what we call contextualized theology Joseph Castillo James Michael Sanders Alan Smith
James Michael Sanders
Troy Day my belief from His Word is that all be with Jesus during the Great Tribulation. I lean to the understanding of Pre or Mid Rapture.
But I guess the ones that will be here during the Great Tribulation can tell us how it went when y’all join us ? Just teasing on the last part
Donald Harrison
Ray E Horton not following. Whom is being endangered? Those that participated in the service did they not willfully place themselves in “danger”? Whom are these innocent people you reference?
Alan Smith
Yes…
Ray E Horton
Donald Harrison Yes that is true! They “willingly” congregated. But, most believers are followers and loyal, and if a service is held, they’ll be there. Thus, holding the service endangers innocent people.
Varnel Watson
and now we answer the questions by James Michael Sanders
(1) how can you say that other Men have not obeyed God during this time? – you CANNOT What about people with outhouses – they have to go too
(2) Do you not believe God still speaks? – YES we do
(3) Do you not believe that God can say stop, go here, or go there, or do this, or not at this time? – YES HE CAN
(4) According to the post and comments that you and Peter and others keep making you guys are rebuking hundreds of thousands of men of God. – NOPE neither Peter Vandever think we are holier than thou If this was true What about the 7 churches of REV What about PAUL speaking to all churches – shall we be quite and NOT speak the truth
(5) Do you not think that all them men prayed? Does God not speak to them? What if God commanded them to stay put temporarily and yet you guys are condemning them. – SURE they prayed Good for them NOW is time to get out and obey Mt 28 and Mk 16
(7) Do all of us men that where told by our Lord Jesus how to serve at this time obey man/YOU/Peter/Rodney or do we obey God?- YES we were The whole church was told in Mt 28 and Mk 16 GOD FORCED them to get out when they stayed put under the Emperors order
1521 Martin Luther and his supporters, for spreading heretic beliefs and for splitting the church WERE put under imperial ban (German: Reichsacht) was a form of outlawry in the Holy Roman Empire. People under imperial ban, known as Geächtete (from about the 17th century, colloquially also as Vogelfreierei, lit. “free as a bird”), lost all their rights and possessions. They were legally considered dead, and anyone was allowed to rob, injure or kill them without legal consequences. THANK GOD Martin Luther disobeyed CIVIL orders LISTENED to GOD and not to the EMPEROR or we ALL be RHC today
THANK GOD Martin Luther the KING disobeyed CIVIL orders LISTENED to GOD and not AL state orders #hello
James Michael Sanders
Troy Day although I agree with a lot of your responses here, our perspective in this situation is different.
But I respect your conviction. Watch and Pray and do how He leads you. God speed brother!
Varnel Watson
James Michael Sanders HOW do you fell about church who do not comply to be SHUT DOWN permanently ?
James Michael Sanders
Troy Day brother unlike some, I’m NOT against a Christian opening the church building OR closing the church building.
I’m doing what I’m led to do personally by His leading for our flock. To abide by His Word and submit to civil authorities request for safety and my Denominations request (not mandate).
But if the Lord told me go open doors tonight I’ll assure you and anyone I will.
I support all my brothers in Christ no matter their personal stance right now on this particular subject.
Varnel Watson
James Michael Sanders hold on with the questions for a moment LETs hear from YALL who said the man was wrong after reading this and estimate in which eschatological time are you living #roughly
Hours after he was arrested for holding worship services during the coronavirus pandemic in violation of a “safer-at-home” order Monday, leader of River at Tampa Bay Church in Tampa, Florida, pastor Rodney Howard-Browne, said he’s now getting death threats and shots were fired at the church’s sign.
Howard-Browne made the claims during a Facebook Live broadcast where he said the threats were stirred by “religious bigotry and hatred” in the media which forced him to make his Twitter and Instagram accounts private, and he called police to report the shots fired at the church.
https://www.facebook.com/rivertampabay/videos/166629304443492/?epa=SEARCH_BOX
Jevan Little
Christians who intentionally flaunt government decrees and shout “come and get me” are a menace.
People give the Chinese as an example but these Christians are low key. They are trying to keep their gathering a secret…they don’t want the government to come and arrest them.
Varnel Watson
that is EXACTLY TRUE James Michael Sanders and I kind of believe Rodney is exactly this time of man 🙂 BUT the Constitution still stands – its the PRINCIPLE of LAW that mattes here not even a person or church or else
Jevan Little pastor Joseph Castillo and myself will disagree the Christian example is low key I think thats a somewhat racist to say as well
Jevan Little
Troy Day I disagree. It’s not about the Law. It’s about what is good, right or necessary.
Jevan Little
Btw we have freedom of speech but we can’t tell “fire” in a crowded building
Jevan Little
Troy Day how is it racist?
Jared Cheshire
Jevan Little you know I love you bro, but you have been too long I Commiefornia. This isn’t about the virus, but about control. None of the governing bodies have the authority to decree anything. Read Article VI of the Constitution in concordance with Chief Justice Marshall’s opinion in Marbury vs Madison.
Had they requested help and offered suggested guidelines, that would be one thing, mandates that violate freedom are beyond the shadow of a doubt unconstitutional.
James Michael Sanders
Troy Day brother in that I agree 100%. I do believe this Pastor should not have been arrested and I do believe the constitution was violated. Even if I don’t personally agree 100% with his choices or maybe even all of his thoughts.
The constitution must be upheld always.
Jevan Little
Jared Cheshire It’s about a highly infectious virus. Communism isn’t a system designed to slow the spread of a virus but if it was, call me comrade
Jared Cheshire
Jevan Little this is as true today as it was 230 years ago.
Jevan Little
Jared Cheshire he wasn’t talking about a pandemic of a highly infectious virus.
Let me ask…if a man has a highly infections disease like tuberculosis our leprosy..should we quarantine him? Or let him go where he wants because he’s an American and the Constitution protects his rights?
Jared Cheshire
Jevan Little Quarantine is when you lock up a contagious person. Locking up people who are not sick…. well that is called something else.
Jared Cheshire
By the way, I wasn’t aware that people with TB were being quarantined, they have been flooding across the southern border for years.
Jevan Little
Jared Cheshire but if we can lock them up that circumvents their ability to assemble with others.
This proves a point about our laws. It’s the same as freedom of speech. You can’t yell “fire!” In a crowded building. We have to be reasonable.
Jevan Little
Read the whole thing
https://www.cdc.gov/tb/programs/laws/menu/isolation.htm
Jevan Little
Btw with this virus we don’t know who is infected until symptoms appear or are tested. That is why they are asking us not to assemble and that protocol applies to parties as well as other gatherings, not just church
Jared Cheshire
Jevan Little yes, that circumvents their “Right” to assemble.
Again your analogy of yelling “fire” is a strawman. The person yelling “fire” does so with intent to violate other’s rights. Healthy people assembling does not meet that criteria. If contagious people gathered with the intent to spread the disease, then your argument is valid, otherwise, in the frame in which we are speaking, it does not.
Jevan Little
Jared Cheshire prove it’s a strawman. The point was Freedom of Speech has limitations..
Jevan Little
Healthy people..again you can be infected and not know it. Who decided everyone walking into a building is healthy? That’s the core problem.
Jared Cheshire
Yelling fire is not speech, it is an aggressive action.
Jared Cheshire
Who determined they are sick?
Jared Cheshire
We could argure this all night, the fact remains that we are operating on different principles. I am working from logic and liberty from unjust authority, and you are working from fear and submissiveness to unjust authority. One of us believes in the fundiment God given Rights of mankind and one believes in privaleges granted by the state.
Jevan Little
Jared Cheshire yelling is not speech? Sure it is! But again that proves my point. Freedom of speech..within reason.
Jevan Little
Oh good..resort to ad hominem. No I AM working from logic and sane reasoning and concern for my fellow countrymen. I care about people and don’t want more to get sick and die. God bless
Jared Cheshire
Jevan Little that wasn’t an ad hominem, it was a statement of fact as I understand our representative positions based on the conversation.
Jared Cheshire
I prefer dangerous freedom over safe slavery.
Jared Cheshire
Jevan Little this goes to the crux of the issue.
Francisco Arriola
Right on cue. Pentecostal Theology.com has elevated Rodney to martyr status. We are all Rodney
Varnel Watson
Then they came for me—
and there was no one left to speak for me.”
~Rev. Martin Niemöller
Hours after he was arrested for holding worship services during the coronavirus pandemic in violation of a “safer-at-home” order Monday, leader of River at Tampa Bay Church in Tampa, Florida, pastor Rodney Howard-Browne, said he’s now getting death threats and shots were fired at the church’s sign.
Howard-Browne made the claims during a Facebook Live broadcast where he said the threats were stirred by “religious bigotry and hatred” in the media which forced him to make his Twitter and Instagram accounts private, and he called police to report the shots fired at the church.
https://www.christianpost.com/news/pastor-rodney-howard-browne-says-shots-fired-at-church-hes-now-getting-death-threats-after-arrest.html
Varnel Watson
NYC Mayor Bill de Blasio threatens to permanently shut down churches, synagogues if they don’t comply with gov’t order
https://www.theblaze.com/news/nyc-mayor-de-blasio-threatens-to-permanently-shut-down-churches-synagogues-if-they-dont-comply-with-govt-order
George Hartwell
You can’t go to the church if you ARE the church. So which is it. Do we need to have a worship service on Sunday in order to ‘be the church?’ Or are we the Body of Christ, salt and light, wherever we are?
Varnel Watson
#stayhome Dont go to church Dont go to the Great Omission either because you’ve missed it ALL
Varnel Watson
Ray E Horton Francisco Arriola come on yall Keep on singing me that same song we;ve herd with Joseph Castillo
NYC Mayor Bill de Blasio threatens to permanently shut down churches, synagogues if they don’t comply with gov’t order
https://www.theblaze.com/news/nyc-mayor-de-blasio-threatens-to-permanently-shut-down-churches-synagogues-if-they-dont-comply-with-govt-order
Varnel Watson
Jon Sellers will you NOW admit that it ALL started with the NYT paid for – feed in – set for the hit article
Francisco Arriola
And?
Francisco Arriola
You really believe he can?
Varnel Watson
Francisco Arriola “I want to say to all those who are preparing the potential of religious services this weekend — if you go to your synagogue, if you go to your church and attempt to hold services after having been told so often not to, our enforcement agents will have no choice but to shut down those services,” de Blasio said. – the question is NOT if you or I believe it The problem is that he believes he can do it
Joseph Castillo
Troy Day that’s right
Francisco Arriola
Time to work on that Livestream
Varnel Watson
Francisco Arriola THEY already done it for you https://twitter.com/matthewschmitz/status/1244339404753289216
Francisco Arriola
There you go. Ahead of the curve.
Varnel Watson
key word here #PERMANENTLY Ray E Horton Peter Vandever Jon Sellers Joseph Castillo yalls comments ?
Ray E Horton
This is misleading. What he actually said was meetings could lead to “potentially closing the building permanently.” The church isn’t the building, and they could always find another gathering place.
George Hartwell
The Illuminati has to get the church out of the way. For Illuminati substitute (Cabal, Deep State, Communists, your favourite term).
Ray E Horton
Maybe that is their goal – it sure is the goal of the demonic powers behind them. But, they will not succeed, for we have the greater power of the authority given to us to use the name of Jesus. But, we do need to use it. I believe enough of us know our authority and are using it, and that the church is safe at this time.
Varnel Watson
Ray E Horton he says what he says on the video Nothing could be misleading when there is a recording at hand except IF the speaker on the recording intended to mislead or be ambiguous
Ray E Horton
Troy Day Did you read this article from the Blaze. What he actually said is what I quoted.
Varnel Watson
Ray E Horton Nope I actually listened to his words on his video https://twitter.com/matthewschmitz/status/1244339404753289216
Ray E Horton
Troy Day I just listened, and he said exactly what I read on the transcript. He’s talking about the building. What he actually said was meetings could lead to “potentially closing the building permanently.” The church isn’t the building, and they could always find another gathering place.
Varnel Watson
OK Ray E Horton where would your church meet when your building is potentially permanently closed? Will you meet at Lake Erie ? Any public place will be open for arrest? Will you meet at the mountain? Underground? On the moon? on social media where they can shut you down with a simple FBI order per any criminal charge until further notice? I know you still have you CB radio just like I got mine too – get it ready ol friend 🙂
How about your family? If they take your house – where will you live?
Ray E Horton
Troy Day No, I’m taking about after this time of emergency is over.
Jevan Little
If your building is on fire and you didn’t know, is it a violation of your right to assemble for the police to evacuate you? If there is a meth lab with explosive material next door or a bomb in front of your church, is it a violation of the 2nd Amendment to order an evacuation with no exceptions?
Jared Cheshire
Jevan Little 1st not 2nd amendment. See, you have been in Commiefornia too long! LOL
By the way, that is a strawmen.?
Jevan Little
Jared Cheshire prove it’s a strawman argument
Jared Cheshire
Jevan Little the criteria do not match. That is the definition of a strawman. One is a peaceful gathering with no ill intent, the others are products of intent to do harm.
Jevan Little
Jared Cheshire a strawman argument is when you distort your opponents views and then attack it.
Jevan Little
This isn’t about peace or ill intent. This is about a highly communicable virus that can be transmitted by infected people who are not yet symptomatic and think they are healthy
Jared Cheshire
And just because I don’t believe in mandated and forced restrictions, does not mean I care less. I am self quarenteened. That makes sense to me being that I am recovering from heart surgery. With the medical conditions I have see you discuss, you should as well. That does not mean we can mandate the actions of others
Varnel Watson
Jevan Little Ray E Horton James Michael Sanders Like bro Larry Dale Steele said it right last night said last night It is not the BUILDING but it is the GATHERING For us Pentecostals, going to church is like going for food or medication. Our supernatural healing proceeds from the atoning work of Christ. Our gathering together represents the resurrection of His body from the dead and our own resurrection from all disease, sickness and even death. It is a spiritual self-fulfilling need guaranteed in the Constitution:
Gary Micheal Epping I am not hearing much from you on this one Dr Brown put nice digest this week How does your post-Trib book envision such scenario
James Michael Sanders
Troy Day amen brother there’s nothing like gathering together with our families!
Varnel Watson
James Michael Sanders not just gathering We administer
communion
laying of hands
anointing with oil
breaking of bread
dancing in the Spirit
gifts of the Spirit and so much more
James Michael Sanders
Troy Day agreed brother
Jevan Little
The Gathering is only what we do. We are The Gathering. We can gather anywhere, in any number at any time.
The first church gathered in small numbers, in homes.
Let’s contribute to slowing this virus and helping protect our neighbors from the spread of it. We are uniquely positioned to do do more than any time ever.
Is it about physical location? Or is is about one mind and one accord?
Varnel Watson
you me OR anyone else do NOT know HOW the first church gathered in small homes in THE TEMPLE for prayer Acts 3 or the synagogues MOST apparently by Rev ch 2-3 after temple was burnt down in 70AD those 7 churches HAD buildings
BUT you have not said nothing about communion baptism and so on ONLINE
WHY would Paul desire to see them in PERSON in 1 Thessalonians 2:17
But, brothers and sisters, when we were orphaned by being separated from you for a short time (in person, not in thought), out of our intense longing we made every effort to see you.
Jevan Little
Troy Day I’m not a legalist. God can save us without those. Furthermore it’s possible to do each without cramming 400 into a building
Jevan Little
Why? Same reason we would. We humans love to see our family and friends and we shall. Pray and be patient
Varnel Watson
Jevan Little pls be assured that I see your point But its a wrong point – not Biblical Thats all
Jevan Little
Troy Day
Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
John 4:21-24 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/jhn.4.21-24.NKJV
Varnel Watson
Jevan Little this proves what to you or me?
Varnel Watson
Jevan Little so much more often than ever before you make so little sense to my anymore that I cant even understand
Varnel Watson
Joseph Castillo Well, being that RHBrowne dropped more than $100K to install a hospital grade filtration system to purify the air, I seriously doubt it was concerning finances one bit. I will take the man at his word that this is about his faith.
Joseph Castillo
Troy Day of course
Varnel Watson
Joseph Castillo hey nice preaching in the hospital today Too bad Francisco Arriola may havent watched
Joseph Castillo
Troy Day amen
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo Joseph Castillo a spark on the SPIRIT of EVANGELIST – a pastor will stay home take care of sheep over he internet and still draw a salary until funds end OK Yall pray for your evangelist and missionary because they TOO have children families and bills This COVID-19 has crippled the Biblical 5-fold ministry if you come to think abut it
Isara Mo
Troy Day
Can any virus cripple what JESUS has erected?
The stakeholders are the ones who are problem..
With the LORD everything is still unchanged COVID nor COVID..
Joseph Castillo
Troy Day True we we’re stranded with an old car some one loaned us after leading 89 doctors to christ
Varnel Watson
Joseph Castillo seems like red coolant out?
Joseph Castillo
Troy Day yes
Varnel Watson
#stilAthing
Varnel Watson
James L Alldredge PLS SOURCE for State of Florida has reclassified religious activities as essential and exempted them from the safe at home order https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/01/825667542/states-consider-whether-religious-services-qualify-as-essential
Varnel Watson
#stilAthing Joseph Castillo Joe Absher Larry Dale Steele Jared Cheshire Francisco Arriola Tim Anderson Robert Cox Lee Grady Alan Smith LAND of the FREE
“safer-at-home” order banning many activities, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis Wednesday said “attending religious services” is among the “essential”
In a new “safer-at-home” order banning many activities, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis Wednesday said “attending religious services” is among the “essential” activities that would be permitted. The order came two days after the arrest of a Tampa pastor, Rodney Howard-Browne, who held worship services in defiance of a local ban on large gatherings. That ban is now effectively overruled.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/01/825667542/states-consider-whether-religious-services-qualify-as-essential
Larry Dale Steele
He actually said that it would not cancel out county or city bans
Varnel Watson
NOW why am I just not learning about this 24hr later Joe Absher Joseph Castillo Isara Mo I will have something to say about ppl not knowing what they are talking about opening spiritual attacks over ppl who are actually ministering
Joe Absher
Saw something about earlier today or last night . the world has gotten a little to fast paced . I guess you gotta pick your fights . you wrestle with the doctor of hypnosis in person trying to get him renounce his witchcraft or you play with your imaginary friends on line .
Larry Dale Steele
I guess the county change also
Larry Dale Steele
https://www.facebook.com/645950565/posts/10156656152335566/?d=n
Varnel Watson
cant open – blocked content – what is it
Larry Dale Steele
it’s just showing where hillsborough county has reversed and decided Church is essential
Varnel Watson
Larry Dale Steele oh yeah we know that now Gov. Ron DeSantis quietly signed a second order Wednesday evening that forces local governments to follow the state’s shutdown order to the letter, opening the door to an immediate resumption of activities that cities and counties had banned.
But at a news conference Thursday, DeSantis claimed his new order merely “set a floor, and you can’t go below that,” adding that if local governments wanted to close a running trail, for example, they could do so.https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/os-ne-coronavirus-desantis-second-order-supersedes-local-20200402-ffob5ojpifhlno4cdy6bd3offq-story.html?fbclid=IwAR0Cxox5z4R7znLiUzOggLcqycNfw3CEhRtBy49eiw1ezzKydlDqAVrnuoY
David Davis
False. Browne is a false teacher.
Varnel Watson
is this why he got arrested ?
David Davis
Troy Day no
Varnel Watson
David Davis in Geneva it would have been
David Davis
Troy Day Browne is a false teacher
Mark Jones
Sadly he was a heretic
Kimberley Johns
Is a heretic. His church is right up the road from me. Still there and has wayyyy too many members. So sad. 🙁
Varnel Watson
Kimberley Johns it may do you well to visit first
Kimberley Johns
Troy Day Oh, no. I’m good. I almost went before I knew about them and I watched, ”The Great Awakening,” for a bit. I don’t know if this was everywhere, but it ran here nightly. I knew from watching it that I didn’t belong there.