Isaiah 65:1a
נִדְרַ֙שְׁתִּי֙ לְל֣וֹא שָׁאָ֔לוּ
I was ready to be sought by those who did not ask for me;
נִמְצֵ֖אתִי לְלֹ֣א בִקְשֻׁ֑נִי
I was ready to be found by those who did not seek me. (ESV)
The ESV (also NRSV, NET, NASB; contrast NIV, HCSB) take these two verbs – “ready to be sought … ready to be found” – as tolerative nifals, I gather.
Joüon-Muraoka (a Hebrew grammar) says of the tolerative nifal נדרש:
generally with a notion of effective action….to allow oneself to be asked, and that effectively, hence practically = to answer (speaking of God)
Walkte & O’Connor (another Hebrew grammar) follow this idea, offering the translation:
I answered (< allowed myself to be sought by) those who did not ask (for me);
I revealed myself to (< allowed myself to be found by) those who did not seek me.
This “efficacy” nuance is different from the “ready to…” translation of the ESV etc.
How should we decide in what way to understand the nifal here? Is this verse intended to convey something already accomplished (revealed, answered) or merely offerred?
1. The other uses of the potentially “tolerative” nifal דרש (with subject = Yahweh) are in Ezekiel; mostly these could also be taken either way.
2. The LXX seems to carry a similar sense of “effective”: Εμφανὴς ἐγενόμην τοῖς ἐμὲ μὴ ζητοῦσιν, εὑρέθην τοῖς ἐμὲ μὴ ἐπερωτῶσιν· = I became visible to those who did not seek me; I was found by those who did not inquire after me. This may have more to do with reading them as passives (“was found” + reconciliation of “did not ask” with “was sought” –> “became visible”) rather than a reflection of the translator having read Jouon, but you never know.
Varnel Watson
Street Preacherz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKIK5ei_Lhg
Street Preacherz
Bingoo
Varnel Watson
So Biblical Ricky Grimsley
Ricky Grimsley
Nope
Varnel Watson
So now you dont believe in rapture at all? So calvinistic of you 🙂
Ricky Grimsley
No i still believe in the rapture. Just not the perry stone timeline b
Varnel Watson
The problem with your statement is that is not just Perry. Millions Pentecostals believe and will be taken in the pre-Trib rapture. The rest are left behind…
Ricky Grimsley
Millions of people believe once saved always saved. That doesnt make it true.
Ricky Grimsley
Show me any scripture that mentions the rapture in any sequence of events.
Varnel Watson
Sequence of Events
By combining these three passages [1 Cor. 15, John 14:1-3, 1 Thess. 4:12-18] and studying them carefully, we can outline the sequence of events in the Rapture. They are totally different from the coming of Christ to this earth in Power and Great Glory, which we will examine in chapter seven. (Note: In the rapture chart on the next page, each event has a corresponding number to help you locate exactly where it occurs.)
1. The Lord Himself will descend from His Father’s house, where He is preparing a place for us (John 14:1-3 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16).
2. He will come again to receive us to Himself (John 14:1-3).
3. He resurrects those who have fallen asleep in Him (deceased believers whom we will not precede, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-15).
4. The Lord shouts as He descends (“loud command,” 1 Thessalonians 4:16, NIV). All this takes place in the “twinkling of an eye” (1 Corinthians 15:52).
5. We will hear the voice of the archangel (perhaps to lead Israel during the seven years of Tribulation as he did in the Old Testament, 1 Thessalonians 4:16).
6. We will also hear the trumpet call of God (1 Thessalonians 4:16), His last trumpet for the church. (Don’t confuse this with the seventh trumpet of Revelation 11:15).
7. The dead in Christ will rise first. (The corruptible ashes of their dead bodies are made incorruptible and joined together with their spirit, which Jesus brings with Him, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).
8. Then we which are alive and remain shall be changed (made incorruptible by having our bodies made “immortal,” 1 Corinthians 15:51,53).
9. Then we shall be caught up [raptured] together (1 Thessalonians 4:17).
10. With them in the clouds (where we assume the dead and living believers will have a monumental reunion; 1 Thessalonians 4:17).
11. To meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17).
12. To “receive you to Myself.” Jesus takes us to the Father’s house “that where I am, you may be also” (John 14:3).
13. “And thus we shall always be with the Lord” (1 Thessalonians 4:17).
Additional Events
1. The judgment seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10). This verse teaches that at the call of Christ for believers, He will judge all things. Christians will stand before the judgment seat of Christ (Romans 14:10, 2 Corinthians 5:10), which is described in detail in 1 Corinthians 3:11-15, and will evidently be in the “Father’s House.” This judgment prepares Christians for.
2. The Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Just prior to His coming to earth in Power and Great Glory, which we call the Glorious Appearing, Christ will meet with His Bride, the church, and the wedding and Marriage Supper will take place. In the meantime, after the church is raptured, the world will suffer the unprecedented time of the wrath of God which our Lord called the Great Tribulation (Revelation 7:14).
Ricky Grimsley
Lol just post a bunch of random scriptures and call it good. Thats why pre-trib doesnt hold up. The case cant even be made.
Link Hudson
When JEsus comes back.