Predestination and Foreknowledge

Question: “What is predestination? Is predestination biblical?”
| PentecostalTheology.com

Predestination and Foreknowledge – Andrew Wommack’s Commentary on Romans 8:29

[There remains so much confusion in the Body of Christ concerning God’s foreknowledge and predestination, I am reprinting Andrew Wommack’s commentary on the subject. Learned theologians are all over the place on this subject, but Andrew is one of the more articulate writers with clear Holy Spirit revelation, in my opinion. I consider this posting needful since many believers have been wrongly taught the harmful and unbiblical view that God predestines some for salvation and some for damnation. Andrew’s commentary can be found at http://www.awmi.net/bible. – Emphasis and subtitles mine – Ray E Horton]

Many believers have been wrongly taught the harmful and unbiblical view that God predestines some for salvation and some for damnation

“Romans 8:29:

“’For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.’

“The word foreknowledge refers to God knowing who would accept His offer of salvation in advance of them actually doing it. The Scriptures teach that we believers were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4). That’s how infinite God’s ability is to know our choices in advance.

There Are Some Things God Does Not Know

“The Scriptures also reveal that there are some things God does not know. Twice in the book of Jeremiah, God said the fact that people would offer their children as sacrifices to demon gods never even came into His mind (Jer. 19:5 and 32:35). There are some things that God Himself said He had never foreseen.

“It is most probable that the Lord has the ability to know everything in advance, but He simply doesn’t choose to exercise that ability in every situation. He told us to be wise concerning that which is good, and simple or innocent concerning that which is evil (Ro 16:19). He also told us to think on things that are true, honest, just, pure, lovely, of good report, and things that have virtue and praise (Php 4:8). That’s the way He desires us to be because that’s the way He is.

“Therefore, when God acted surprised that Adam and Eve had eaten of the forbidden tree, He probably was. As we have already pointed out from Eph 1:4, God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world.  He knew there would be a transgression and a need for redemption before man was even created. But apparently, He did not utilize His foreknowledge to the extent that He knew every move that man was making.  No reason is given for this, but certainly one reason is that an absolute use of God’s foreknowledge would hinder His relationship with man.

“God sent two angels to Sodom and Gomorrah to see if their actions were really as bad as had been reported to Him (Ge 18:20-19:29). The Lord tested Abraham (Ge 22:1-10). After the test, He said, ‘For now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me’ (Ge 22:12). The Lord repented for choosing Saul to be king when He saw the way he turned out (1Sa 15:11). The Scripture contains many other examples besides these.

God’s ability to know all things in advance is limitless, but by His choice, God does not know every detail. Understanding foreknowledge provides the foundation for understanding predestination, calling (Ro 8:30), and election (1Pe 1:2).

Predestination Is Dependent on Foreknowledge

“This verse provides the key for unlocking the answer to the doctrine of predestination. Predestination is dependent on foreknowledge!

“The word predestinate means to predetermine. Predestinate and its variant predestinated are only used four times in the New Testament (Ro 8:29-30; Eph 1:5, and 11). People have interpreted this doctrine as saying that God predetermines everything in people’s lives, including whether they will be saved or lost. This interpretation is not consistent with other doctrines or examples in Scripture. This belief will destroy people’s motivation to fight evil and do good. If God predetermines everything that happens in people’s lives, then everything that happens to them is God’s will–even sin. That is not true.

“This verse limits God’s predestination to only those whom He foreknew. This means that only those people who God knew would accept His offer of salvation have been predestined. He does not predestine people to be saved or lost. Those whom He foreknew in Christ have been predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. As we can tell by observation, God doesn’t even force that to happen. With some Christians, this will not occur until they receive their glorified bodies, but it will occur.

“God gave all people free will, and God will not violate that free will except in judgment. Even in judgment, God is only enforcing the choices that people have already made of their own free will. All people have a God-given right to go to hell if they want to.

“Just as in Ro 8:28, God works everything together for good for those who already love Him. And even then He does not take away their free will. Everything that happens to them is not good, and it is not from God. However, God, in His infinite wisdom, can work it together for good. Ro 8:29 is simply continuing to develop the truth that God is for man and has predetermined that those who have come to Him for salvation will be saved to the uttermost.

“Understood correctly, this verse provides great reassurance to believers that God is for them and working with them to bring them to the complete stature of the Lord Jesus Christ (Eph 4:13).

Ray E Horton

Serving the Lord as encourager, reconciler, intercessor and prophetic teacher of God's Word, primarily in person and on Facebook, as well as writer and editor. Beyond, or as part of, the Ministry of Reconciliation that we are all called to, I am serving the Lord and His people as a minister of prayer at a local church, and encouraging the brethren locally among people I know, and worldwide on Facebook

48 Comments

  • Reply July 20, 2020

    Varnel Watson

    NO not AT all

  • Reply July 20, 2020

    Kyle Williams

    And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
    Romans 8:27‭-‬35 KJV.

    Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure
    Isaiah 46:9‭-‬10 KJV

    I believe that predestination is a biblical doctrine that upholds the Sovereignty of God In salvation.

  • Reply July 20, 2020

    Varnel Watson

    so you deny FREE WILL? Kyle Williams

    • Reply July 20, 2020

      Kyle Williams

      Troy Day I simply affirm Gods Sovereignty

    • Reply July 20, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      is it not Gods Sovereignty what provides us with FREE WILL

    • Reply July 20, 2020

      Kyle Williams

      To a certain extent,if we as believers had libertarian free will,we would destroy ourselves. Do you believe that our will is an agent In salvation or must the Holy Ghost first move us to belief?

    • Reply July 20, 2020

      Mike Partyka

      Troy Day 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.

    • Reply July 20, 2020

      Mike Partyka

      Who’s will ?

    • Reply July 20, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      Mike Partyka how did you got saved? Did you make a personal choice to follow Jesus or someone forced you ?

    • Reply July 20, 2020

      Mike Partyka

      It is only because of the effectual grace of God working in my heart that brought me to faith.

  • Reply July 20, 2020

    Varnel Watson

    Kyle Williams libertarian free will? You are throwing terms from calvinist forums and I dont care much about that If you have real BIBLE verses on predestination for salvation post them and we will discuss them at our own free time and free will 🙂

    • Reply July 20, 2020

      Kyle Williams

      Troy Day well I’ll just say the Lord has been dealing with me about some of my theological convictions. Did you read the passage from Romans 8 that I had shared previously

    • Reply July 20, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      Kyle Williams I did but it does not claim predestined for salvation or non-free will in any ways What else you got?

    • Reply July 20, 2020

      Kyle Williams

      Troy Day let me ask you this… what was the state of your soul (or mine,for that matter) prior to conversion. What does the bible say about the state of our soul prior to regeneration?

    • Reply July 20, 2020

      Kyle Williams

      Dead in sins and trespasses, children of wrath and enemies of God; Total Inability to come to Christ.

  • Reply July 20, 2020

    Kyle Williams

    Define a ” real bible verse” do you not believe in the whole counsel of the word of God… The doctrines of Grace are so clear from scripture. You cant miss election and predestination

  • Reply July 20, 2020

    John Duncan

    Paul teaches in Ephesians and Romans 9-11 that the Jews and Gentiles we predestined to be one church.

  • Reply July 20, 2020

    Louise Cummings

    Yes it is Biblical. But not like some teaches it. Some is born to go to Heaven. Some born to go to hell. It is t in the Bible like that. Every one was created in His Image. In the beginning of the Bible. He said. Let us make man in our Image. So He did. Such great scriptures in the Bible in it. Jesus she’d His Blood for us all to go to Heaven. All your spaces is filled. But read first Ephesians 1:4-5. Or it would bless yo to read on dow. Read the cometary on it. 1st Corinthians 2: 7. We was ordained unto His Glory. But every man didn’t except it. But they walked away on their own. Not because God created them to go to hell.

  • Reply July 21, 2020

    Chris Baudean

    No such thing as free will.

    • Reply July 21, 2020

      Kyle Williams

      Chris Baudean only a freed will as by the Holy Ghost. Before Christ we are bound as in grave clothes,totally depraved and unable to be anything but hostile to the Lord our God! I thank God for His mercy. God Bless!

    • Reply July 21, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      did Adam and Eve have free will or GOD forced them to sin as if they were created for eternal hell

    • Reply July 21, 2020

      Chris Baudean

      Troy Day Free will implies that when you do what your will is there is no consiquences involved it is like being God who has FREE WILL. Which is the lie Satan told Eve that God didn’t want her to eat of the fruit because he knew that when she ate she would be like God. Who obviouly has free will. Man has a CHOICE and when he choses he is either rewarded positively for making the right one or negetivly for making the wrong one. Every choice he makes has an impact on him or others personally and his will is NOT FREE of consiquences.

    • Reply July 22, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      Chris Baudean You did not answer my question Does the lack of free will implies some ppl were created by GOD just to fill up hell?

  • Reply July 21, 2020

    Varnel Watson

    Chris Baudean true only for people bound in sin

  • Reply July 21, 2020

    Lance Snider

    PREDESTINATION
    God’s foreordination of all events and circumstances for the good of His people and the glory of His name. [If you study the scriptures and have a better definition, please feel free to let me know.]

    PREDESTINATION DEPENDS UPON GOD’S SOVEREIGNTY
    HE IS THE CREATOR OF ALL THINGS
    Jeremiah 32:17–19
    See also Genesis 1:1; Job 38:1–4; Isaiah 44:24–28; Isaiah 45:12–13; Isaiah 48:12–14

    HE RULES OVER NATURE AND HISTORY
    Proverbs 16:4
    See also Genesis 18:10–14; Psalms 67:4; Proverbs 16:9, 33; Proverbs 21:1;
    Matthew 8:23–27 pp Mark 4:35–41 pp Luke 8:22–25;
    Matthew 10:29–30; Acts 17:26
    Jonah 1:7, The casting of lots to determine a decision, in this case to find a culprit, was common in Israel and other countries in the ancient Near East (cf. Leviticus 16:8; Joshua 18:6; 1 Samuel 14:42; Nehemiah 10:34; Esther 3:7; Proverbs 16:33; Acts 1:26). Perhaps marked stones were put in a container, and one was taken out. God expressed His sovereignty over Jonah’s affairs, causing the lot to “fall” on His disobedient prophet.
    Jonah 1:17 (God PREpared (or, “appointed” a great fish);
    Jonah 4:6 (God PREpared a gourd), 7 (God PREpared a worm), 8 (God PREpared a vehement eat wind) In the Piel, manāh (“prepared”) generally means “to ordain” or “to appoint.” In Dan. 1:10, the king “appoints” or designates the rations for Daniel and his friends. Likewise, a guard was appointed to see to the needs of the Hebrew captives (Dan. 1:11). Job also complained that “wearisome nights are appointed to me” (Job 7:3). In the Book of Jonah, He appoints events and experiences. Yahweh “ordains” a great fish to swallow Jonah (1:17), a giant gourd to give him shade (4:6) and a worm to kill the gourd (4:7). It is clear from the context of these passages that something so ordained or appointed is designated for a particular purpose and thus executes the will of the one who made the designation.

    HIS WILL IS PERFECT
    Genesis 18:25
    See also Exodus 33:19; Deuteronomy 32:4; Job 8:3; Psalms 119:137; Daniel 4:37

    GODS PREDESTINATED PURPOSES CANNOT BE THWARTED
    HUMAN BEINGS CANNOT STAND AGAINST HIS WILL
    Romans 9:19–21
    See also Psalms 2:1–4; Proverbs 19:21; Proverbs 21:30; Isaiah 14:24–27; Isaiah 46:10–12; Daniel 4:35

    FALSE GODS ARE IMPOTENT BEFORE HIM
    Psalms 115:3–8
    See also Isaiah 44:8–20; Isaiah 45:20; Isaiah 48:14

    HE BRINGS GOOD OUT OF EVIL
    Genesis 50:20
    See also Genesis 15:13–16; Genesis 45:4–8

    PREDESTINATION UNDERGIRDS BIBLICAL PROPHECY
    IT EXPLAINS THE PROPHETS’ CONFIDENCE
    1 Kings 22:17–28
    See also 1 Peter 1:10–12

    IT IS DEMONSTRATED IN THE FULFILLMENT OF PROPHECY
    1 Kings 22:29–38
    See also Matthew 1:22; Matthew 2:15, 23; Matthew 4:14; Matthew 8:17; Matthew 12:17–19; Acts 2:17–25; Acts 3:22–25; Acts 13:27–30; Acts 15:15–18

    THE LIFE AND MINISTRY OF JESUS CHRIST WAS PREDESTINED
    IN THAT IT WAS PREDICTED BY THE PROPHETS
    Isaiah 9:6–7
    See also Isaiah 11:1–10;
    Isaiah 52:13–53:12 This is 4th of 4 Servants Songs related to the Messiah, the first beginning in ch. 42;
    Jeremiah 23:5–6; Acts 3:18; Galatians 4:4–5

    IN HIS SUFFERINGS AND DEATH
    Acts 2:23
    See also Matthew 16:21; Luke 18:31–32; Luke 22:22; Luke 24:25–27, 44–45; John 13:1;
    Acts 4:27–30

    IN THE OUTCOME IT ACHIEVED
    Genesis 3:15

    GOD’S PURPOSE IN PREDESTINATION IS TO BLESS HIS PEOPLE
    IN THE PATH THEIR LIVES FOLLOW
    Romans 8:28
    See also Psalms 139:14–16; Jeremiah 29:11;
    Matthew 10:29–31 pp Luke 12:6–7

    IN THEIR SALVATION
    Romans 8:29–30
    See also Genesis 12:1–3; Matthew 11:25–27; Mark 4:11; John 6:37–44; Acts 13:48 (several things need to be examined in this passage)
    1 Thessalonians 5:9

    IN THEIR ASSURANCE OF SALVATION
    Romans 8:31–39
    See also John 10:27–29; John 17:2;
    Ephesians 1:3–14 Predestination is basic to Christian certainty.

    REGARDING FINAL PERSEVERANCE
    Philippians 1:6
    See also Psalms 138:8; John 6:37–40; Philippians 2:12–13; James 5:11

    REGARDING FUTURE INHERITANCE
    John 14:2–3
    See also Matthew 25:34; Romans 8:30

    GOD PREDESTINES JUDGMENT
    Isaiah 65:11–12
    See also Genesis 6:17 the flood;
    Exodus 7:13; Exodus 9:13–18; Joshua 11:20; 2 Kings 19:25–26;
    Isaiah 14:24–27 judgment on Assyria;
    Isaiah 19:12–14;
    Isaiah 23:9 judgment on Tyre;
    Jeremiah 49:20;
    Jeremiah 50:45 judgment on Babylon;
    1 Peter 2:6–8; Isaiah 8:14–15

    PREDESTINATION DOES NOT SET ASIDE HUMAN RESPONSIBILITY
    Philippians 2:12–13
    See also John 6:37, 40; Acts 13:48

    • Reply July 21, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      pls define all events
      Does this also mean salvation ?
      Could you provide scripture support for that

    • Reply July 21, 2020

      Lance Snider

      PREDESTINATION IS INTIMATELY CONNECTED WITH THE DOCTRINE OF ELECTION.
      ELECTION: Scripture affirms that God chooses a people as His own, not on account of their numerical strength or moral merits, but on the count of His love for them. Election is on the basis of divine grace, not human merit.

      ELECTION TO SALVATION
      God chooses to bring individuals to salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

      ELECTION IS PART OF GOD’S ETERNAL DECREE
      ELECTION IS FROM ETERNITY
      Ephesians 1:4
      See also 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 2 Timothy 1:9

      ELECTIONS GOD’S SOVEREIGN PREROGATIVE
      Romans 9:15–24 [This concerns Israel.];
      Romans 11:1–6 [This concerns Israel.];
      Exodus 33:19; Isaiah 65:1; Jeremiah 18:1–12; John 15:16; John 17:6; Romans 9:10–13; Ephesians 2:10

      GOD’S ELECTION and INDIVIDUALS
      See also Genesis 15:7–8, 18–21; Genesis 18:19; Galatians 3:29

      ELECTION IS NOT ON THE BASIS OF MERIT
      1 Corinthians 1:26–31
      See also Deuteronomy 7:7–8; Deuteronomy 9:4–6; James 2:5

      GOD’S ELECTION OF HIS PEOPLE IS THE FOUNDATION OF HIS SAVING ACTION
      ELECTION DOES NOT SUSPEND GOD’S USE OF THE MEANS OF SALVATION
      2 Thessalonians 2:13–14
      See also Matthew 1:21; Ephesians 2:8–10; James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:2

      ELECTION WORKS IN TANDEM WITH THE CALL OF THE GOSPEL
      Matthew 22:14; Acts 13:48
      See also Romans 8:29–30

      ELECTION IS EVIDENCED THROUGH A POSITIVE RESPONSE TO THE GOSPEL
      1 Thessalonians 1:4–5
      See also John 6:37–40

      ELECTION IS A MOTIVE FOR PRAISE
      Romans 11:28–36; Ephesians 1:3–14
      See also 1 Thessalonians 1:2–4

      ELECTION IS A SOURCE OF PRACTICAL COMFORT
      Romans 8:31–39
      See also John 10:27–29; John 17:2

      ELECTION IS AN INCENTIVE FOR RIGHTEOUS BEHAVIOR
      Colossians 3:12–14
      See also John 15:16–17; Philippians 2:12–13; 2 Timothy 2:13–15; 2 Peter 1:3–11

      ELECTION IS A STIMULUS TO THE PREACHING OF THE GOSPEL
      2 Timothy 2:10

    • Reply July 21, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      Lance Snider I ask AGAIN PREDESTINATION for ELECTION for WHAT? – you certainly dont mean for SALVATION do you ?

      IF ELECTION IS NOT ON THE BASIS OF MERIT then it is on the bases of pure free will

      ELECTIONS GOD’S SOVEREIGN PREROGATIVE then He is more than SOVEREIGN to give it by free will

      ELECTION WORKS IN TANDEM WITH THE CALL OF THE GOSPEL meaning what? in TANDEM with free will ? This is called synergism NoT SOVEREIGNity

      The verses you offered on this on DO NOT prove salvation without free will ie forces salvation and I would like to challenge this point exegetic ally

      ELECTION IS EVIDENCED THROUGH A POSITIVE RESPONSE TO THE GOSPEL – this also presumes FREE WILL How can one respond without choice AND certainly HOW can one make right or wrong positive or negative choice except by his/her own free will?

      GOD’S ELECTION OF HIS PEOPLE IS THE FOUNDATION OF HIS SAVING ACTION
      ELECTION DOES NOT SUSPEND GOD’S USE OF THE MEANS OF SALVATION
      2 Thessalonians 2:13–14
      See also Matthew 1:21; Ephesians 2:8–10; James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:2

    • Reply July 21, 2020

      Lance Snider

      FREEDOM OF THE WILL
      The ability to make decisions without being coerced by external forces is one definition. Scripture stresses that people are confronted with so-called “free” choices between good and evil and commands them to choose good. However, it also notes that limitations are placed upon human actions through the enslaving power of sin. [This thematic definition doesn’t seem to address the issue of the predestinated providences of God and various other related issues].

      FREEDOM OF THE WILL
      FREEDOM OF THE WILL TO CHOOSE BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL
      Deuteronomy 11:26–28
      See also Deuteronomy 30:15–16, 19; Joshua 24:15; 1 Chronicles 28:9; Jeremiah 26:3;
      Ezekiel 18:21–23

      FREEDOM OF THE WILL TO SEEK AND FIND GOD
      Isaiah 55:6
      See also Amos 5:4; Acts 2:21; Romans 10:11; Isaiah 28:16; Revelations 22:17

      THE EFFECT OF SIN UPON FREEDOM OF THE WILL
      SIN PREVENTS HUMAN BEINGS FROM BREAKING FREE FROM ITS BONDAGE
      Romans 7:14–20
      See also Romans 6:16, 22; Romans 7:25 Paul stresses that it is only through Jesus Christ that human beings can be freed from servitude to sin.

      SIN HARDENS HUMAN HEARTS
      Hebrews 3:13
      See also Daniel 5:20; Romans 1:21; Ephesians 4:17–19

      GOD HARDENS HUMAN HEARTS
      Exodus 9:12
      See also Exodus 4:21; Exodus 10:20; Exodus 14:4, 8; Deuteronomy 2:30; Joshua 11:19–20; Romans 1:22–24; Romans 9:17–18

      HUMAN BEINGS HARDEN THEIR OWN HEARTS
      1 Samuel 6:6
      See also Exodus 8:15, 32; Psalms 95:8; Proverbs 28:14; Hebrews 3:8, 15; Proverbs 4:7

    • Reply July 21, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      Lance Snider verses to your previous question pls No need to copy paste from other sites What verses in the BIBLE say predestined for salvation?

  • Reply July 21, 2020

    Kyle Williams

    The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord : and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand.
    Psalms 37:23‭-‬24 KJV
    There is predestination( unconditional election)and perseverance of the saints in tandem from a single passage of scripture

    • Reply July 21, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      steps YES – salvation is a free will choice

    • Reply July 21, 2020

      Kyle Williams

      Troy Day does not the Holy Spirit move on a man to draw him unto God… or can we in our DEAD state choose to do good? Can we choose good before regeneration

    • Reply July 21, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      Kyle Williams I am not certain of such humanistic logic I simply read my BIBLE to see GOD allows free will upon salvation and there is NO direct reference in the NT that claims GOD forces people into salvation – on the contrary Since you are asking tho, do you really believe some people were created just to go to hell? What about Judas or Adam and Eve?

    • Reply July 21, 2020

      Kyle Williams

      Didn’t Judas betrayal of Jesus fulfill Gods plan, Was Adam and Eve’s rebellion not a catalyst of sort to fulfill the redemptive plan of God, who calls the beginning from the end? Or did the rebellion catch God off guard?

    • Reply July 21, 2020

      Kyle Williams

      Allows free will upon salvation… if it was our free will to come to Christ,would any come… of course not,we would all be damned

    • Reply July 21, 2020

      Ray E Horton

      Yes, God calls us/draws us toward salvation, but that call is to everyone, not just some, and we get to freely choose. Will we believe and choose Jesus, or in pride continue to trust self.

  • Reply July 21, 2020

    Varnel Watson

    Ray E Horton your post is getting good traction Care to weight in?

  • Reply July 21, 2020

    Ray E Horton

    I stand by the OP. Andrew Wommack has an excellent and I believe correct handle in the subject that is in line with our faith.

    • Reply July 22, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      didnt he just pull out of the ministry ?

    • Reply July 22, 2020

      Ray E Horton

      Troy Day I am sure not, at least not that I have heard. Source?

  • Reply July 21, 2020

    Varnel Watson

    What verses in the BIBLE say predestined for salvation?

  • Reply July 22, 2020

    Varnel Watson

    Ray E Horton Kyle Williams Lance Snider Chris Baudean WHY is no one answering IF Adam and Eve had free will? What about Satan and Judas?

    • Reply July 22, 2020

      Ray E Horton

      Troy Day Without taking the time to check out scripture on this, my sense is that Satan and Judas also had free will. They aren’t robots. Satan hated God and man and freely decided to influence people to crucify Jesus, not aware of the full implications of how it would backfire for the salvation of mankind.

      God by foreknowledge knew what Satan would do, falling into His eternal plan for redemption. Judas choose to be influenced by Satan – he had a choice. God knew that Judas’ actions would cooperate with the redemption plan. But foreknowledge is by no means the same as predestination.

    • Reply July 22, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      Ray E Horton I think you should check Scripture

    • Reply July 22, 2020

      Ray E Horton

      Troy Day I believe I am correct just from my knowledge of scripture and scriptural principles. But yes, when I can find the time I will restudy scripture on this subject.

  • Reply July 22, 2020

    Nathaniel Rodriguez

    We are predestined for all that God has FOR THOSE THAT LOVE HIM…WE MUST CHOOSE!

  • Reply July 22, 2020

    RichardAnna Boyce

    Romans 8:Verses 29-30 are a golden chain representing God’s plan for our deliverance. It begins with God’s foreknowledge. The term foreknew means to “know beforehand” and “chose beforehand.” This does not mean that God looked ahead and acquired the facts about what would happen, but that God made a predetermined choice to have an intimate relationship with certain individuals (cf. Jer 1:4-5; Amos 3:2; Eph 1:4; cf. Luke 1:15; Gal 1:15). In context, those whom God decided to have this intimate relationship with are suffering believers.

    The term predestined means “to decide beforehand” as in making a choice. But what was the choice? Not to turn unbelievers into believers, but to conform those He foreknew to the image of His Son. While foreknowledge implies the intention to develop a relationship, predestination implies the plan and decision to carry it out. God planned, before anybody was ever born, before anybody was saved, that every person who believed in Jesus for eternal life, and who suffered as a result of living for Jesus, would be conformed completely to the image of Jesus.

    God’s purpose in foreknowledge and predestination is that suffering believers may share with Christ (i.e., He) in His firstborn privileges (cf. cf. vv 14-15,17-22). Hence these many brethren, contextually, are those who will have a special status as firstborn who will reign with Christ since they also suffered with Him (v 17; 2 Tim 2:12; Heb 1:9; 3:14; Rev 2:26). To further comfort suffering believers, Paul stresses God’s unbroken purpose for the called (ekalesen) who are the justified (edikaiœsen) and glorified (edoxasen). All three verbs in the Greek appear in the aorist “past” tense. The future of these believers is so certain that Paul uses the aorist past tense to describe future glorification (since it is guaranteed at justification) as though it were already completed.

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