#WoW How many times have we heard this? This is wrong. There are those who believe you can have a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and mediation of the church. These temptations are dangerous and harmful.
Henry Volk [09/17/2015 12:34 PM]
I agree, but define Church?
David N Laura Aragon [09/17/2015 12:36 PM]
HE MUST HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE DEVIL ??
John Kissinger [09/17/2015 12:38 PM]
Pope is definitely NOT Jesus-only Rick Peter Charles
David N Laura Aragon [09/17/2015 12:40 PM]
HE JESUS NOTHING
Peter A Vandever [09/17/2015 12:42 PM]
Pope is dangerous
Henry Volk [09/17/2015 12:43 PM]
God works through human instrumentality. We would not be saved if not for the church. Who proclaims the gospel? The Church. However, the RCC is not the totality of the Church, as Francis believes.
Candace Laughinghouse [09/17/2015 12:44 PM]
Wait! Did you listen to what he said? He said that there shouldn’t be a dichotomy between Christ and the church. People take a snippet and run with it. Listen to the entire thing in order to responsibly critique. I’ve heard more dangerous evangelicals and Pentecostal messages than this. He also just told churches that if you don’t feed the hungry and help the homeless, then pay taxes like a business. Time out for the churches seeking greater temples and ministry size.
Candace Laughinghouse [09/17/2015 12:47 PM]
His comment can also be that he is challenging the church to step up – at least that’s what he says in just about every article I read. The church needs to do much better.
Henry Volk [09/17/2015 12:49 PM]
Obviously, Christ and the Church are connected, but they are separate entities.
Candace Laughinghouse [09/17/2015 12:50 PM]
And the behavior of many of today’s churches are quite separate from Christ.
John Kissinger [09/17/2015 12:50 PM]
Candace Laughinghouse There is NO Christ and church separation. At least not as far as the Bible is concerned…
Candace Laughinghouse [09/17/2015 12:52 PM]
There isn’t. But have you listened to some churches, evangelical broadcasts, charismatic movements, etc.? They are not of Christ.
Brian Roden [09/17/2015 12:53 PM]
Protestants, with our focus on “personal relationship with Jesus,” often end up with a weak ecclesiology. Since those who put their faith in Christ are “in Christ,” part of His body, the universal Church, a lone ranger Christian who thinks he or she can make it “just Jesus and me” is something the Apostles and other early Christians would have found unthinkable. The ear can’t tell the nose, “I have no need of you.” Christians need other Christians to provide support, discipleship, correction and confrontation, etc.
We each must have a personal relationship with Christ (not just relying on religious routine and attendance at services), but that personal relationship with Christ carries with it being in relationship with other believers as part of the body.
John Kissinger [09/17/2015 12:54 PM]
Candace Laughinghouse No, not really. But I do read my #BIBLE
John Kissinger [09/17/2015 12:55 PM]
Brian Roden Lack of focus on a “personal relationship with Jesus” is the definition of weak ecclesiology…
Candace Laughinghouse [09/17/2015 12:55 PM]
“my” Bible? we all have the same Bible. But anyway, if you aren’t aware then you might want to broaden your scope of research and information. How effective can we be if we don’t know what’s going on. It’s plain as day.
Pam Miracle Doud [09/17/2015 12:56 PM]
Jesus is the way and the only way.
Candace Laughinghouse [09/17/2015 12:58 PM]
Sigh! you don’t even know what Bible I have. But ok. That’s a sign of conversation not worth having when assumptions and conclusions are drawn off nothing. Ase. I’m off to my writing for the day.
Link Hudson [09/17/2015 2:09 PM]
I doubt i’d agree with him on his ideas of our relationship being mediated through Jesus. But I do think he is addressing a very real problem in Evangelicalism.
We never see the apostles in the Bible, telling people to get saved and ‘have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ’ or a ‘personal relationship with God’ or say the phrase ‘Personal Savior.’ Our relationship with the Lord is a benefit of our salvation, but the emphasis in a lot of evangelical evangelism isn’t the same as what we see in the Bible.
Evangelicals including Pentecostals have gotten fixated on the word ‘personal.’ Keith Green wrote an article in which he asked why Christians nowadays had to load down the Gospel with a lot of double talk. Why say ‘Personal Savior’ instead of ‘my Savior’? You don’t say, ‘This is my personal sister’ or ‘This is my personal belly button.’ You say ‘my sister’ and ‘my belly button.’
I suppose ‘Personal Savior’ was a phrase developed in sermons that explained to somewhat churched people that Jesus wasn’t just the Savior of mankind, but the Savior of the individual who needed to get saved. The phrase makes sense in this context. But it makes no sense without explanation to an unbeliever for an Evangelical preacher or street witnesser to insist they accept ‘Jesus Christ as your Personal Savior.’ Why cloud the issue with ‘personal’?
I’ve got a personal comupter. No one can use it but me. It’s mine. You can touch it if you don’t want to. Then you tell me Jesus is my personal Savior? Is it any wonder some people think they just need ‘Jesus as my personal Savior’ and a relationship just between themselves and God?
You hear someone say “My faith is a personal matter between me and God. I don’t want to discuss it.” If the person is an evangelical, those who study the Bible know the guy is off in his thinking for saying that. But where did he get the idea? He may have gotten it because evangelicals preach the Gospel as ‘a personal relationship with Jesus Christ’ and Jesus as ‘personal Savior’ even though this is not the way the Gospel was presented by Jesus or the apostles.
Flávio Nunes [09/17/2015 2:29 PM]
James Armstrong [09/17/2015 4:43 PM]
Listening to that devil is dangerous and harmful.
John Kissinger [09/18/2015 11:36 PM]
John Kissinger [09/19/2015 2:29 AM]
Today John Ruffle is studying the Pope https://www.facebook.com/john.ruffle/posts/10153681614907049
John Kissinger [09/19/2015 3:34 AM]
Eusebuis, Philokalia: ‘most’ Catholics finally join Orthodoxy 🙂
John Kissinger [09/20/2015 6:12 AM]
John Ruffle back in the day many/most Protestants believed the Pope to be the antiChrist. This has changed in the past few decades mainly with the influence of the Left Behind series. This current 266th Pope is strongly revitalizing the idea Brody Pope