Are children born innocent and choose to sin?

Posted by Troy Day in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

Are children born innocent
and choose to sin
as they grow up…

56 Comments

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    OR are they born in original sin?

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Tendo Steven

    They are born innocent and sinless

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    What about David who was born in sin?

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Walter Polasik

    Tengo Steven: Not according to scripture. Look at Genesis 5:3. Adam passed on his characteristics to his son. This was post-fall. I’ve had people remark, “But sin isn’t genetic” to this issue but realized that PHYSICALLY something changed for Adam as a result of sin. There was corruption of the original physical perfection, a degradation. There was also an inherent, in-born, “wired” if you will, proclivity to sin. Little kids are the perfect example of this. You don’t have to teach them how to lie, or steal, or be rebellious against authority.

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Walter Polasik

    Psalm 51: 5, Troy,

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Tendo Steven

    So if a child of just days die, they go to hell?

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Some theologians do believe that and have Biblical proof to back it

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Tendo Steven

    Ok

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Terry Wiles

    This is what I believe.

    Scriptures represent every human being as having inherited a sinful nature (see Job 14:4, 15:14; Ps. 51:5; Rom. 5:12; Eph. 2:3); that men universally become guilty of acts of sin as soon as they come to moral consciousness (see Ps. 58:3; Isa. 48:8); that no man can be saved by works (Ps. 143:2; Acts 13:39: Rom. 3:20, Gal. 2:16) and that Scripture represents man’s state of apostasy as the direct result of Adam’s sin (Rom. 5:15-19).

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Ray E Horton

    Walter has the scriptural position here. Babies and little children are not held accountable until they are conscious of sin. But, all are born with a sin nature. When one is Born Again that sin nature, the old man as the Bible calls it, dies, and we become whole new creations with a new nature in our inner person, our spirits. That is when our sins are washed away (forgiven) and cleansed, and our spirits are made as white as snow with the gift of His righteousness. While our old man, our sin nature is gone once and for all, in our soulish realm (vs. spirit, see Heb. 4:12), that is, our mind, will and emotions, we still need to work out that salvation that is ours in our daily lives, because of old habits and ways and hurts and wrong teaching. We renew our minds to who we have become in Christ, and that gives us the confidence to grow steadily in Christlike living from glory to glory.

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Ray There is now BIblical proof that babies and little children are not held accountable until they are conscious of sin Please show us Scripture to back this up

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Scotty Searan

    How do we know are sinning, if we don’t know we are doing wrong?
    Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Not knowing you are not breaking the law does not mean you are not breaking the law You are still breaking it just dont know you are

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Scotty Searan

    If a,person has not heard of Jesus Christ, how can they be saved?

  • Reply March 2, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    True or False ?

  • Reply March 2, 2018

    Eva Benevento

    Pelagian controversy

  • Reply March 2, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Really? Melvin Shomo Joseph D. Absher

  • Reply March 2, 2018

    Melvin Shomo

    Children are born innocent they only choose to sin the older they get to actually know the difference

  • Reply March 2, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    No verse in the Bible to defend such position – just saying

  • Reply March 2, 2018

    Melvin Shomo

    Common sense settles the issue. God has gifted us all with common sense
    We just have to learn to apply it to our lives

  • Reply March 3, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    I have found no Biblical reference to that particular Common sense issue Others may have found a verse or two

  • Reply March 3, 2018

    Randal W Deese

    The historical church has always taught that children are born innocent. The Roman Catholic Church changed that and the protestants followed. Yes, most Pentecostals have some RC Doctrine

  • Reply March 3, 2018

    Joseph D. Absher

    Thank you. I’ve often wondered where this verse fits. I think it agrees with everything people are saying about “original sin”
    Romans 7:9 KJV — For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

  • Reply March 3, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Randal W Deese Why does the so called “historical” church baptizes infants for renouncing of sins and the works of the devil? if they are innocent indeed? The historical church you speak of did not exist until the Great Schism – there is lots of church history 10 centuries before it that needs to be studied

  • Reply March 3, 2018

    Randal W Deese

    1. Infants are baptized in orthodoxy to remove the consequences of the ‘original sin’.
    To wash away all other sins committed before the time of Baptism if the person is beyond the age of infancy. To unite the person to “The Body of Christ” (that is, the Church), and to open the door of salvation and eternal life to him or her.
    2. The historical Church has always been Orthodoxy – Rome split off…

    When I refer to the Historical Church, I’m referring to the generally agreed doctrines of the entire Church history of the Unified Church.

  • Reply March 3, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Right. So children ARE born in sin – original sin

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      We don’t teach original sin like the West.

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Randal W Deese

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      of course you do 🙂 Eastern Orthodoxy accepts the doctrine of ancestral sin: “Original sin is hereditary. It did not remain only Adam and Eve’s. As life passes from them to all of their descendants, so does original sin.”

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      Troy Day That definition is a little off that you have… No one needs to do is look at any orthodox catechism

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Henry Volk already did that last year 🙂

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      Troy Day I’m actually working on an Orthodox Pentecostal catechism

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Joseph D. Absher

      By candle light?

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      Joseph D. Absher If it was good enough for the early church, it is good enough for me… Ha ha ha ha

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Joseph D. Absher

      Why does it seem there is so much confusion on this. There’s a lot of verses for what is called original sin. Is it the terms? Innocence, guilt, age of accountability? What’s really going on.

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      Joseph D. Absher

      I don’t have the text right in front of me because I am traveling, but part of the problem is how a specific verse is translated. Later this evening I will find that verse and the various translations

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Joseph D. Absher

      No doctrine hangs on one verse. Even I know that

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      Joseph D. Absher This is true… But it seems to be the key for moving in one direction or another

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Joseph D. Absher

      As long as it ain’t Romans 9 lol

  • Reply March 3, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Randal One Henry Volk tried doing a pentecostal cathechism and met constructional difficulties. Merging Orthodox and Pentecostal are fundamentally and intrinsically different

    – child baptism
    – authority of believer
    – practice the gifts in Pentecostal hierarchy
    – church governing
    – women in ministry – just to name a few off the top of my head

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      The difference is that I am embracing Orthodox theology but with Penecostal gift distinctives… That’s it

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      I am an Orthodox Bishop. I work under a patriarch. I have been given freedom to create a Pentecostal type jurisdiction.

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Randal 🙂 Pentecostal type jurisdiction is not even how Pentecostalism works 🙂

      You are probably NOT aware that patriarchs before yours have tried to establish Protestant connection. It was impossible in practice and theology then it is impossible in practice and theology now

      In 1558 the patriarch of Constantinople, Joasaph II, sent a deacon named Demetrios Mysos to Wittenberg to learn more about the new movement in the West. He spoke directly with Melenchton but did NOT work out Another Lutheran embassy of a more imposing character, headed by the well-known Tubingen divines Andrea; and Crusius, visited Constantinople during the patriarchate of Jercmias (1576 to 1581). But both missions remained without result. The differences in theology and practice were just too great to even begin talking about it

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      Troy Day I already have 700 Pentecostal churches that have agreed to join up with me

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      Troy Day By the way… I was raised a Lutheran and went to a Lutheran seminary… I am very aware of the things of which you speak

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      Troy Day First of all… There is no rule of how Pentecostalism works… It was just a renewal movement… Which I am involved with intimately

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      This basically expresses what we are doing

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Randal W Deese

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      oh you are QUITE mistaken – Pentecostalism is much much more than jut another renewal movement 🙂

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      Troy Day Every other Doctrine that Pentecostals whole except for the Doctrine concerning the baptism of the Holy Spirit, are all taught by other groups… Hence, just a movement

  • Reply March 3, 2018

    Joseph D. Absher

    Mr Troy Day
    I didn’t get a response on this verse how does this fit. Doesn’t it confirm “original sin”
    Romans 7:9 KJV — For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

  • Reply March 3, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Randal W Deese dont wann hijack this post with Ortho Doxy so we can start a new one and tear it apart if you’d like

    But in Pentecostal liturgy order
    at ANY given moment ANY one in the congregation can feel/get/experience the move of the Holy Spirit and start prophecy in unknown tongues that may be

    HOW is this gonna work out with the priestly lexicon being read in order as sanctioned by the Patriarch? Give it to happen 2-3-4-5 times this year and that many next in in a decade your congregation will a whole annual cycle behind the other churches and way out of the will of the Patriarch 🙂

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      That is not true in every Penecostal church. I was involved with many Penecostal churches that didn’t practice it that way but were orderly

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      Part of the problem here is that you have experienced Pentecostalism, but there is much Pentecostalism outside of your circles… Pentecostalism is much bigger than what you think

    • Reply March 3, 2018

      Joseph D. Absher

      Well it ain’t bigger than the B.I.B.L.E.
      I’ll be here all week thanks!

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