Pentecostal discussion on delayed tax returns

Posted by Jim Price in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

Jesus spoke often about the rich and the poor always saying that the rich should shift more money to the poor. At my listening post of trying to hear what pentecostal preachers are saying about the subject I am hearing nothing. Its as if they are not concerned about how wealth is distributed among the people.
This week Warren Buffett writing in Time Mag. recounts when Forbes first listed the 400 richest people. At the time they had a combined $ 93 billion in wealth, in the last 35 years their wealth has grown 29-fold to $ 2.7 trillion, while millions of working families still have a hard time just getting by.
Buffett puts the average income at $ 59,000 per year per capita. But think about it; how many if any in your congregation make $ 59m or $ 118m per household?
Generally we think that people should tithe no matter how little they make but if we are realistic we recognize that folks will take care of food, housing, clothes and transportation first.
People are touchy where money is discussed but church leaders need to think long and hard about ways to talk about money in ways that we can feel comfortable in doing so.

29 Comments

  • Reply January 5, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    The Amazon guy passed all others this year + all rich preachers all together Now Jim where are the 1040 forms. Why are they not out yet?

  • Reply January 5, 2018

    Ira Huth

  • Reply January 5, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Forbes? these leftist democrats BTW I saw this on the news this AM but I could not figure would they extend April 15 too?

  • Reply January 5, 2018

    Ira Huth

    Lol!!! Before you know it, I will be posting articles from the Washington Post.

  • Reply January 5, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    I am genuinely concerned that under this new schedule many mid-class families will not get their much needed returns until well after the winter season. End of January will delay tax returns at least 6-10 more weeks – a time during which the government will hold billions of dollars to cover last year losses and/or balance budget. Not nice Jimmy Humphrey

  • Reply January 7, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Jim Price What is your take on the delaying of the tax returns this year ? Stan Wayne has been very very quite about it over @ snowy Jersey

  • Reply January 7, 2018

    Jim Price

    Every day they delay it that means millions more in the treasury, very much a republican strategy to keep money from the working classes. Also they have not been staffing the IRS with enough people to get the job done in a timely way.

  • Reply January 7, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Ira Huth Now that I believe to be the God honest truth Jim Whats your take on this tax return delay? Nelson Banuchi Stan Wayne MIA?

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Bill Stockham

    “There will always be poor people in the land. SO I’M COMMANDING YOU TO GIVE freely to those who are poor and needy in your land. Open your hands to them.” (Deuteronomy 15:11)

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Nelson and Jim you confirm my view that this tax reform allowed government to hold tax payers tax return money while monetizing on the hold

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Micael Grenholm

    At Pentecostals and Charismatics for Peace and Justice, we do talk a lot about the Biblical themes of justice and helping the poor. You’re very welcome to join us, Jim Price https://pcpj.org/

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Just give us the scoop of these talks you are having there

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Dan Irving

    The Lord spoke nothing on how wealth should be distributed. Rather, that is a fiction of those who have certainly a Social-agenda gospel.

  • Reply January 8, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    social gospel = dominion = kindom-now = liberation theology

  • Reply January 10, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    This is last years tax reform discussion with Jim Price Link Hudson and several others Here are some of the questions

    We all owe caesar tax – that much is clear
    Gas price has also gone down though not much else has decreased along

    joint standard deduction in 2019 was to double yet we still see it @ 24K so with this in mind

    1. How did the tax reform improved church income in 2018-2019

    2. How does it affects families with many children (mainly religious families) this year

    3. How does the 20 yr mandatory return of this tax reform will affect families and churches when the tax increase follows – if not mistaken starts 12yrs later so 2018+12=2030 and the decade following ????

    • Reply January 10, 2019

      Link Hudson

      I am not a CPA and I do not know enough to comment. I just a guestimate of what my taxes were, based on a job I did not get, through an online simulator and compared the output to a spreadsheet I had. So I cannot say.

    • Reply January 10, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      were we under the wrong impression standard deductible for joint filing was to double in 2019 up to 42K b/c it is 24 if I read it correctly Jimmy Humphrey

  • Reply January 10, 2019

    Isara Mo

    In Africa the Jesus teaching for the most past is reversed: the poor pump their meager incomes to ” the rich”…

    • Reply January 10, 2019

      Isara Mo

      Poor congregation, rich pastors

  • Reply January 10, 2019

    Ray E Horton

    Concerning the implied question of whether we should be concerned how wealth is distributed, other than voluntary giving to the needed, wealth should not be distributed but earned.

    Concerning church giving, we shouldn’t be dependent on people getting tax deductions, they should be taught to be cheerful givers to the work of the Lord.

    Concerning income for church pastors/ministers, I believe it should not be far out of line in either direction from mean income within the congregation.

    Concerning giving by the poor, why should they be jipped out of a blessing? They are more in need of the blessing than the rich and should be encouraged to be givers. By encouraged, I by no means mean coerced. We are no longer under the law, and should only give out of willing hearts.

  • Reply January 10, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    Ray E Horton I was under the impression last year they said double standard deduction for joint filing which would have made it $42 000 per family I also remember Jim Price saying this would be very hard to do Now we see it was just a bluff

    The new 1040 form is half page only No Ez or A forms just schedules I think they wanted to do this last year but run out of time and went with the old one. Now the tax keeps on increasing for the next 20 yrs or more until we pay back the “TAX CUT”

    How does this affect church moneys? Terry Wiles

    What about large families? Link Hudson

    in 2018 both the actual forms and child credits were delayed significantly During Obama was faster but still some mess. W Bush had it figured out best – the checks were in mid-March or so

    • Reply January 10, 2019

      Link Hudson

      ask me in about three months.

    • Reply January 10, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      too late then

    • Reply January 10, 2019

      Ray E Horton

      haven’t even thought about tax filing yet, but Googled, and found this article: https://www.fool.com/taxes/2018/09/13/3-reasons-your-higher-2018-standard-deduction-migh.aspx

    • Reply January 11, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      I look at the actual 1040 form 24k is not that much different than the join deduction of last year – certainly NOT double like it was said in early 2018 or am I wrong ?

    • Reply January 11, 2019

      Ray E Horton

      Troy Day The joint deduction last year was $12,700, so it is close to double.

    • Reply January 11, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      yes this is where I am lost in 2019 – it was supposed to be double but it is actually $1400 less, you see

      25400 vs 24000

  • Reply January 11, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    Help me out there Jimmy Humphrey I might have just gotten ahead of myself The standard deduction nearly doubled in 2018 as part of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. For example, the standard deduction for married couples filing a joint return jumped from $12,700 in 2017 to $24,000 in 2018. Although the personal exemption was eliminated, the combination of the higher standard deduction and the increased Child Tax Credit resulted in significant tax savings for many American families What am I missing again?

  • Reply April 15, 2020

    Varnel Watson

    BY ACCEPTING FEDERAL AID, RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS MAY SUBJECT THEMSELVES TO STATE LAW MANDATES.
    Under some state laws, acceptance of government aid – even federal aid – triggers new legal obligations and restrictions. For example, the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act (CADA) generally prohibits employers from discriminating on the basis of religion, sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity. CADA expressly exempts “any religious organization” from these requirements. But the exemption is lost if the organization “is supported in whole or in part by money raised by taxation or public borrowing.” C.R.S. § 24-34-402(7).

    Even without this exemption, CADA still permits religious organizations to select employees based upon religious preference. But as with Title VII, this may not permit an employer to discriminate based on other protected classes, such as sexual orientation and gender identity.

    Most Colorado churches and ministries aren’t subject to CADA because they’re not supported by government aid. But accepting PPP or EIDL loans could change that and cause an organization to lose at least some of its religious exemption.

    BE CAREFUL
    Many religious organizations find themselves in dire straits as a result of this crisis. And each will have to balance the economic threat to their operations with the legal risks that come with accepting the government’s help. Every church and ministry will have decide for itself how to strike that balance. But each should go into it with eyes wide open, mindful of the potential costs to their mission and values. As always, you should consult with an attorney regarding your specific situation.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NhKH91nvJg&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3_Hqh8KmCrHvi8KJBTO8aKaPJ0ifa76Zurzmqi5o5WGPCUjFk2q3jOOIs

Leave a Reply

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.