Just curious. If there isn’t a pre-rapture then how does…

Just curious. If there isn’t a pre-rapture then how does…
Carl Baker | PentecostalTheology.com

Just curious. If there isn’t a pre-rapture then how does Jesus return with his saints on white horses if we aren’t called up first? Revelation 19:11-16! Also what does it mean when the book Zechariah 14:5 says Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You. The Bible also refers to the days of Noah- a sense of normalcy in the land. Before the day came and took them all away that didn’t heed Noah’s word! Hint to Matthew 24:36-44 That talks about a sense of normalcy. But Jesus talks about the great tribulation as not being a normal time! Matthew 24:21. These passages sound very different to me! Jesus says you will see the Son of man in the clouds of heaven! Yes I agree! But I believe that again, if there is no pre rapture why also would Jesus say in Luke 21:34-36 to pray that you will be worthy to escape the great time of trouble that shall come upon the earth and to stand before the Son of Man. Hey if anyone can prove me wrong I can admit that I’m wrong. But to me the rapture isn’t Jesus coming through the clouds for judgment. It’s him taking us home. Those left behind still will have a chance to make it! But unfortunately within the great tribulation. Revelation 7:14 these are they who came out of great tribulation.

53 Comments

  • Reply January 11, 2020

    Cecil Roy

    I see so much of arguments, putting down, showing off of knowledge. As for me I dont care. I just wanna be there to go with Him where ever He takes me, as long as I’m with Him. My pursuit is not deep bible knowledge but deep intimacy with the Author, everything else doesn’t matter so much. I dont care which horse He is coming on, what matters is Hes with me NOW, dont care how many trumpets are sounding as long as He hears my desperate whispers and I can hear His still small voice. I’m just a simpleton from India who believes every word in the Word is true even if I can’t understand it it doesn’t matter. HE UNDERSTANDS ME.

  • Reply January 11, 2020

    ךתה נףכ

    Well that’s called” the end”!

  • Reply January 11, 2020

    David Ortiz

    The very same people that are saying Jesus can come any day soon, will be the same ones that will be saying “the Lord delayeth his return” (No rapture). Jesus called them evil servants and converted two fold children of hell. I call them the rapture deceived.
    Satan sold them a theory that will guarantee that they will not be ready after the 7 bowls of wrath are poured out, at the warning of Jesus saying in Rev 16.15 that right after the 6th bowl of wrath is poured out, at that very moment where we see Jesus warning…”Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.”
    These people will not put oil in their lamps, they will not put on the whole armor of God to withstand in the evil day, and they surely will not build their life on a rock that endures punishing rains, devastating winds, and a flood of tribulation. Why should they? They think they’re not gonna be here.
    Satan has them thinking there just going to evaporate any day soon, as that noose is tightened daily around their neck as they become faced into going through the great tribulation. Acts 14:22 we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
    Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
    25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
    26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
    27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth.
    In conclusion to all this, it’s safe to say Satan is the rapture teacher. While Jesus is saying “Father DO NOT take those who believe in me out of the world, but keep them from the evil.

  • Reply January 11, 2020

    It's Inside You

    I think you need to study the end time timeline of the Revelation a bit more closely. When we recognize that Jesus returning to win the victory for the saints comes at the END of the Great Tribulation, then it makes sense in terms of Christians being raptured “at the last trump”.

  • Reply January 11, 2020

    Scottie Toleratethis

    Do not forget the verse, we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them,..

  • Reply January 11, 2020

    Joyce Horness

    But, us not the Bible saying these very things?

  • Reply January 11, 2020

    Joyce Horness

    1

  • Reply January 11, 2020

    Joyce Horness

    Is

  • Reply January 11, 2020

    Mary Heeman Eastman

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    David Ortiz

    Ogala Ojwock What does the Passover teach us? The Passover plainly shows us where God pours out his angry wrathful plagues on the wicked, while he keeps his people completely unharmed in safety right alongside all the destruction.

    What prevents the death angel from harming God’s people? If your first thought is the blood of the Lamb/Jesus, you are correct.

    This proves we are not appointed unto wrath, because the blood of the Lamb of God inoculates us from any wrathful plagues, while we still remain on earth as the light of the world, unto the return of Jesus. Who the heavens must hold until the restoration of all things.

    Proverbs 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord. And Jesus said you DO NOT light a candle only to remove it, as he lit that candle on the day of pentecost.

    We see this pattern in the days of Noah where the wicked were destroyed by God’s wrath, and the righteous were kept right alongside all the global destruction in safety.

    Jesus said it would be this very same way at the end of the world.

    In Matthew 13:30. We see Jesus commanding his angels to “FIRST” gather the tears/children of the wicked one, and destroy them. Then Jesus instructs his angels, now gather up the wheat/ the children of the Kingdom, and place them in my barn.

    Left behind deceivers have it completely backwards from how Jesus taught it. These deceiving liars say that the wheat gets gathered up first, and then the tears are destroyed, again that’s backwards. We can listen to the words of Jesus, or we can listen to those bewitching voices that make merchandise of us, with their deceptive left behind books, movies, DVD’s and Cd’s.

    Forget everything you’ve ever heard about a rapture, and listen to Jesus when he said, Father DO NOT take those that believe in me out of the world, but keep them from the evil. This is done by us being covered by the blood of the Lamb, where a death angel of wrath has no jurisdiction to harm us.

    Yes many will give their life in the 5th seal, and yet there are those who Jesus said, “Not a hair of your head shall perish.” Where a thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand, but it will not harm thee. Even though we walk through the valley of the shadow of death, we are to fear no evil because the Lord is with us.

    Psalms 37:28, God preserves his saints, but the seed of the wicked is cut off.

    Psalms 145:20, the Lord preserveth all them that love him, but the wicked will he destroy.

    Proverbs 10:30 KJV The righteous can never be removed.

    Right after the sixth bowl of the wrath of God is poured out in Revelation 16:15, we see Jesus warning his Church saying, “Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth”. This proves the Church is still on earth through the bowls of wrath.

    Remember the EVIL REPORT of the spies? There message to God’s people was we can’t go through this! We will all be die!

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Riza Paraguya Gealon

    Secret things belongs to GOD

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Felicita Felicita

    Amin

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Adam James Gee

    The Harvest Points. 1st – 144,000 12 tribes first fruits. Then 2nd – Sinners redeemed by the Blood of Jesus, the rest go to hell.

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Christine Tate

    The word saint means holy and set apart to God. While Christians are certainly saints, we are not the only saints in God’s kingdom. For example, there are Four Living Creatures that sit at the throne of God. By definition, they are saints. To say that the saints that return with Jesus are earthly Christian saint is an assumption. Nowhere in scripture are those saints defined specifically as human.

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Daniel Primeau

    The only timing mentioned in the scriptures given is “immediately after the tribulation “. None of them say anything about a seven year gap between coming once and then again.

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Andrea Drake

    COME LORD JESUS COME!!! PREPARE YOUR PEOPLE!!!

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Craig Theisen

    The 6th Trumpet War starts , also called the 2nd Woe Revelation 9 – 11 and gives Israel all the land God promised Abraham in Genesis 15:18-21 .
    The 3rd Temple will be Rebuilt . The antichrist will stop the sacrifice and offering and sit in the Temple as God and set up the abomination of desolation and proclaim himself to be god (revealing himself) , 2 Thessalonians 2:1-5.
    Matthew 24:15-21 : Jesus said “When you see the abomination that causes desolation (antichrist) , spoken of by the prophet Daniel , flee for then there will be great tribulation ( 3.5 years )”
    Matthew 24:29 – 31 Jesus said ” IMMEDIATELY after the Tribulation of those days (3.5 years of the antichrist tribulation) , end of 2nd Woe .
    The sun will be darkened the moon will turn to blood and the stars will fall from the sky. THEN you will see the son of man coming on the clouds with power and glory . And He will send his angels with a great TRUMPET call (The Feast of Trumpets on the 1st of Tishri , The Feast that NO MAN KNOWS THE DAY OR HOUR) and they will gather His ELECT (Born Again Christians) from the four winds (those of us who are alive and remain) , from one end of the Heavens to the other (dead in Christ ) this is the ( Resurrection / Rapture).
    We will be spared from The Hour of Wrath (15 days) God will pour out His 7 Thunders , Revelation 10 on the earth .
    Revelation 19 : We will be in Heaven at the marriage supper of the Lamb and receiving and laying crowns at Jesus feet . 10 days later (The Feasts of Atonement on the 10th of Tishri) “we will return with Jesus riding on white horses , dressed in white to The Battle of Armageddon”.
    Revelation 20 ( On the 15th of Tishri The Feasts of Tabernacles ) Jesus will make us kings and priest with Him and He will rule and reign for 1,000 years

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Shekinah Glory Dias

    Maranath come lord Jesus Christ come

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Matthew Kampff

    I live and travel outside, and every street is surrounded by grossness, while the people smile often and the animals do suffer. Even churches call police on me for resting nearby. All people should greatly consider what the entirety of scripture says and also what their own hearts say.

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Paul Bortolazzo

    Immediately after the events of the first five seals, Jesus will open the six seal and his elect will be gathered to heaven for the judgement seat And the marriage to the Lamb of God

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Pamela Beasley

    I believe you have to understand what the Holy Spirit is really saying, in order to grasp what God is saying in the prophetic scriptures. That I believe, is the reason why there is so much confusion and disagreement between the masses. Because the knowledge must be received in the Spiritual realm. Otherwise, it isn’t going to be understood by the seeker.

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Gideon Benjamin

    There is NO pre-tribulation

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    William Davidson

    RAPTURE NOT FOUND IN BIBLE. UNHEARD OF BEFORE 1850!!!

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Grady Henley

    There is a pre trib rapture! Don’t miss it!

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Grady Henley

    If u don’t know the difference in The Nation of Israel vs the NT Church and if you fail to rightly divide the word, u r a post trib!

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    David Tunji Kebby

    Wonderful God

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Sandee Smith

    Excellent points! Thank you very much! Also, “to him who looks shall He appear the second time” & “He who now hinders” letteth “shall do so till He be taken out of the way”–the Holy Spirit in a believer, “then that man of perdition, the Lawless one” (Antichrist) shall be revealed.”

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Cheri Evans

    Michael steps aside

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Sandee Smith

    Keep this going! I’ve copied some of this so I could send it to family members who some may be on the fence, but most of them seem to believe in the pre-trib rapture.

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Charmaine Yliruusi

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Faith Lee

    Carl Baker

    You need to look into all the Scriptures on tribulation & rapture (rise up, caught up) ..

    The Bible has Scriptures on rapture ..Jesus said He will come fr His people (sheep) on the last day .. the saints will attend the Wedding .. the saints & Jesus will return to earth to rule in Jesus millennial kingdom ..

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Buhle Magudulela

    Not on earth BT in Jerusalem with god we all that will be chosen will be praising h all day nd night enjoying the good fruits

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Faith Lee

    The Bible has spoken ..
    Jesus Christ is coming immediately after tribulation!
    Beware! Anyone who teaches against it .. is the false prophet & false teacher!

    “Immediately #after #the #tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened , and the moon will not provide its light , and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
    And at that time the sign of the #Son of Man [coming in His glory] will #appear in the #sky, and then all the tribes of the earth [and especially Israel] will mourn [regretting their rebellion and rejection of the Messiah], and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory [in brilliance and splendor].
    Matthew 24:29‭-‬30 AMP

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Peter M Chee

    When we return with Jesus we are immortals riding behind him.
    You see in the picture all who follow behind Jesus are us in our glorified bodies. So we know that this triumphant return is immediately after the 1st Resurrection.

    Q: When do the dead in Christ rise?
    A: On the Last Day.

    Q: When is the rapture?
    A: after the dead in Christ rise.

    Q: Who partakes of the 1st Resurrection?
    A: All who are the Elect of Christ and we shall follow him back to earth as the “armies of heaven” the “saints” and rule the world of mortal men with Jesus for the thousand years.

    ” and the dead in Christ shall rise first; 17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up” – 1 Thess 4:16 & 17

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Grady Henley

    To deny the pre-trib rapture is to deny:

    1. Enoch was raptured out of the earth before Noah’s flood.
    2. Elijah left the earth in a chariot of fire.
    3. Ezekiel was moved from placed to place when he saw his visions.
    4. That Jesus didn’t ascend into heaven and present His body as a sacrifice to sin to the Father.
    5. That Jesus didn’t come back to earth and dwell with the disciple.
    6. That Jesus didn’t vanish away, Luke 24:31
    7. That Jesus didn’t appear in the midst of the disciple, Luke 24:36.
    8. That when Jesus showed Himself to Thomas, Jesus didn’t pass thru the walls and the closed door, John 20:26
    9. that Jesus didn’t ascend into Heaven, in His glorified body, Acts 1:9
    10. Philip was not caught up in the Spirit and transported to Azotus, Acts 8:40
    11. that Paul did not go into the 3rd heaven
    12. That John was caught up into Heaven, Rev. 4.

    I’ve given you at LEAST 12 scriptural refernces where men and the Lord, appeared and disappered, and those 12 does NOT take into account all the appearance of angels in the bible, when they appeared and disappeared.

    Yet you all maintain: NO PRE-TRIB rapture or no rapture.

    Do you all really believe the bible you claim to read and believe???

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    MyDale Bowen

    The resurrection occurs and there’s a host of holy beings in heaven.

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    MyDale Bowen

    A great delusion has fallen on a lukewarm church. Look around the horses are riding across the heavens as we chat. The birth pangs have begun. We should be willing to partake in seal # 5 and pray we don’t have to see loved ones martyred or worse they take the mark. He that endures till the end will be saved or changed. There is no get out of jail free. The narrow hard road is a dangerous place

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Elizabeth Francisco Santos

    Yes true

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Pasqal Huguet

    JESUS CHRIST IS MY SAVIOUR AND LORD AND GOD AND YES JESUS CHRIST IS COMING SOON 2S

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Gigi Halcon

    I agree with u Carl Baker .

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Michael Arrington

    No rapture

  • Reply January 12, 2020

    Jessy Coxson

    The Rapture happens AFTER the tribulation, but BEFORE the wrath of God is poured out. Simple as that.

  • Reply January 13, 2020

    Melanie Hall

    I’m still on the fence about the rapture. This word is not mentioned anywhere in the bible. Why would God give us the shield of protection if we aren’t here, during the time the antichrist is on the throne in the temple portraying to be Jesus? I’m just saying…

  • Reply January 13, 2020

    Craig Theisen

    Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man “worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand”,
    10 The same shall drink of the wine of “the wrath of God”, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with “fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb”:
    11 And the “smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name”.
    12 Here is the patience of “the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus”.

    We are here for the mark : the patience of “the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus”.

  • Reply January 13, 2020

    Craig Theisen

    We are here for the mark : the patience of “the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus”.

  • Reply January 13, 2020

    Tamika Jackson

    The dead in Christ I took that that was going to be a quick process when he crack the sky and return the sea shall give up the Dead and his Saints with him are those the people who already have gone on to be with the Lord before us

  • Reply January 13, 2020

    Craig Theisen

    The 6th Trumpet War starts , also called the 2nd Woe Revelation 9 – 11 and gives Israel all the land God promised Abraham in Genesis 15:18-21 .
    The 3rd Temple will be Rebuilt . The antichrist will stop the sacrifice and offering and sit in the Temple as God and set up the abomination of desolation and proclaim himself to be god (revealing himself) , 2 Thessalonians 2:1-5.
    Matthew 24:15-21 : Jesus said “When you see the abomination that causes desolation (antichrist) , spoken of by the prophet Daniel , flee for then there will be great tribulation ( 3.5 years )”
    Matthew 24:29 – 31 Jesus said ” IMMEDIATELY after the Tribulation of those days (3.5 years of the antichrist tribulation) , end of 2nd Woe .
    The sun will be darkened the moon will turn to blood and the stars will fall from the sky. THEN you will see the son of man coming on the clouds with power and glory . And He will send his angels with a great TRUMPET call (The Feast of Trumpets on the 1st of Tishri , The Feast that NO MAN KNOWS THE DAY OR HOUR) and they will gather His ELECT (Born Again Christians) from the four winds (those of us who are alive and remain) , from one end of the Heavens to the other (dead in Christ ) this is the ( Resurrection / Rapture).
    We will be spared from The Hour of Wrath (15 days) God will pour out His 7 Thunders , Revelation 10 on the earth .
    Revelation 19 : We will be in Heaven at the marriage supper of the Lamb and receiving and laying crowns at Jesus feet . 10 days later (The Feasts of Atonement on the 10th of Tishri) we will return with Jesus riding on white horses , dressed in white to The Battle of Armageddon.
    Revelation 20 ( On the 15th of Tishri The Feasts of Tabernacles ) Jesus will make us kings and priest with Him and He will rule and reign for 1,000 years

  • Reply January 13, 2020

    John Prewett

    Carl Baker
    As per Revelation 15,
    The saved ( who had “victory over the BEAST”)
    are safe in heaven when the wrath of God
    is poured onto the earth as per Revelation 16

    Rev 14 reveals the awful fate of all who
    worship BEAST/image and take “mark”.

    Then note the last three verses of Rev 14.
    Somehow a huge quantity of blood is shed.
    186 miles of blood, to depth of horses bridal.
    Like a river of blood, but the width of the river is not specified.

    WHERE DO YOU THINK THIS BLOOD CAME FROM?
    WHO DO YOU THINK DIED TO GIVE UP THIS MUCH BLOOD?

    As per Rev 20:4,
    We who REIGN WITH CHRIST will have been BEHEADED.
    ps: beheading releases a lot of blood

  • Reply January 13, 2020

    William Davidson

    RAPTURE IS NOT IN THE BIBLE

  • Reply January 13, 2020

    Craig Theisen

    Mat 24:29

    Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    Mat 24:30
    And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    Mat 24:31
    And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall “gather together his elect” from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

  • Reply January 13, 2020

    Gary Garland

    Matthew 24 plainly states the trumpet sound and gathering together from the earth is the last thing that happens in the sequence of events our Lord Jesus Christ spoke of to His disciple’s question about what would happen.

  • Reply January 14, 2020

    Craig Theisen

    But he that shall “endure unto the end”, the same shall be saved.

  • Reply January 15, 2020

    Claudia Marcus

    Carl, read Rev.14:14-16 where Jesus makes His harvest from the clouds of His “fruits”. and than read Rev.16:15-17 where He actually comes back to earth like a thief. There is a separation between the two, but they are all in the 7th trumpet events.

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