theology August 24, 2018 Is the Holy Ghost still a Person? Posted by in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post The discussion is the article! PentecostalTheology .com Previous articleConfessions of a Train Preacher: North Hollywood Station Next articleMICHAEL W. SMITH: SURROUNDED (free event) 78 Comments Reply August 25, 2018 Varnel Watson yeah I say unto thee Terry Wiles Scotty Searan Brody Pope Reply August 25, 2018 Scotty Searan Sorta Sacrilegious talk isn’t I gave my thoughts a few weeks ago. No more debating on this. You know what the Bible says about debates and debaters Reply August 25, 2018 Varnel Watson Yes Scotty You are quite right Not only sacreligious but also heretical and just plain sinful. I cant but wonder if Terry ever preached on the person of the Holy Ghost back in his day when he did preach then, and how Ricky feels about it Reply August 25, 2018 Terry Wiles Troy Day I have never called the Holy Spirit an “it”. Only a personal pronoun is Biblically correct. Reply August 25, 2018 Varnel Watson you ever preached on the person of the Holy Ghost? Reply August 25, 2018 Scotty Searan Troy Day Preached from this scripture “BE READY TO GIVE A REASON WHY YOU BELIEVE.” Reply August 25, 2018 Varnel Watson Sorry the question was to Terry Wiles just the verse was for you to answer your question above Reply August 25, 2018 Scotty Searan Troy Day I don’t want to around this mountain again. Terry Wiles i do not believe the Holy Spirit is an “IT” I also don’t believe the Holy Ghost has a physical body that you can see so it is not a person. The Holy Ghost must have some physical sensation to manifest himself through. But just because you use a personal pronoun “HE” doesn’t mean that the Holy Ghost is a person. Reply August 25, 2018 Louise Cummings Troy Day sorry I had read once before. Each person he wanted to answer it. I forgot about that. I’ll try and remember to answer to only if they are addressed to me. I would like to have heard his message. Sorry I have spoken out of term. Reply August 26, 2018 Varnel Watson Any anthropological definition of the Holy Ghost usually ends up in failure Reply August 26, 2018 Terry Wiles Scotty Searan One does not have to have a body to be a person. One day our bodies will be in the grave yet we will still be a person. The “Word” Himself is a person who in the fullness of time a body “was prepared” for. “Person” speaks to individuality. You seem to have stated that you do not believe the Holy Spirit has “individuality.” We believe the Godhead consists of “Three in One.” You seem to have stated there are only two in the Godhead. God is Spirit. One Person of the Godhead was made flesh and lived among us. The Father and The Holy Spirit are no less “persons” than the Son. Troy Day Reply August 26, 2018 Varnel Watson are all dead ppl persons since they dont have bodies no more? Reply August 26, 2018 Terry Wiles Troy Day The rich man seemed to have personal attributes. But some believe it was only an analogy. Choose your position and go with it. Reply August 26, 2018 Varnel Watson Completely wrong analogy between man and the Spirit of God referred as RUAH/she spirit in the Hebrew text You should know that Reply August 26, 2018 Terry Wiles Troy Day Reply August 27, 2018 Scotty Searan Troy Day Is not the word anthropological? Reply August 27, 2018 Scotty Searan Terry Wiles Are all spirits persons? Matthew 12:43-45 43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last stateof that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. Reply August 27, 2018 Varnel Watson Thank you Scotty Searan YES all spirits are personal Reply August 27, 2018 Terry Wiles Scotty Searan Just look at the personal pronouns in the verses you quote. Of course they are. And each “one” of the evil ones will have their place in the lake of fire where they will “personally” experience the wages of their rebellion. YES, all spirits are personal! Reply August 27, 2018 Scotty Searan Troy Day, Terry Wiles Not personal, but a person Reply August 27, 2018 Terry Wiles Scotty Searan There are Human persons and Divine Persons and persons that are neither human nor Divine. A person is an individual being, with self-consciousness and will, capable of feeling, choosing, and having a reciprocal relationship with other personal and social beings. In Scripture God is revealed as an individual being — Divine. The “Godhead” is revealed as three Divine Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; Three In One Each Person of the Godhead has personal names and relationship with human and other than human persons by knowing and communing with them. Each Person of the Godhead has emotions. Each Person of the Godhead refers to other members of the Godhead. God speaks of the Son, The Son speaks of The Father and the Holy Spirit, The Holy Spirit declares the truth about the Son. The only Divine Person to have a Body (to our scriptural understanding) is The Son, The Word who was made flesh and dwelt among us. However, even after His resurrection, He maintained a transformed “body” and there will be “thrones” set in heaven for dignitaries human and Divine. Troy Day Reply August 27, 2018 Varnel Watson anything else with be a purely personal heresy Reply August 27, 2018 Terry Wiles Especially if a personal Human person denied one of the Divine Godhead persons was not a Person personally. Reply August 27, 2018 Varnel Watson personally a person is a person personifying personality Reply August 27, 2018 Scotty Searan Terry Wiles A person you can, but a spirit you cannot see until it desires to manifest himself in a human body, fire, cloud or dove or swine. But a person is a human body. The early scholars called spirits persons to promote the Trinity Godhead. Earlier Troy Daya reference to the KJV being wrong and he seems to insinuate that they were added by the KJV translators. 1 John 5:7-8 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these threeare one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. Now if this happened in the 1600s isn’t it possible the the scholars and translators in the 300s and 400s to have misrepresented the Holy Ghost as a person in all the confusion There was a debate between different sects of Trinitarian, Oneness and other theories and that has continued through the centuries. I do believe in God the Father I do believe in Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God I do believe in the Holy Ghost proceeding from both God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son. They all have positions to fulfill in the Godhead. We have tropical storms and hurricanes that are named each year and they are sometimes referred to as He or she. Does that mean they are a person? The tornadoes are sometimes referred to in personal pronouns does that them a person? Reply August 27, 2018 Scotty Searan Terry Wiles Troy Day I do not deny the existence of the Holy Ghost as spiritual being. A Spiritual Being needs something or someone to manifest himself in. He is not a person unless he manifestes himself through a person. When he manifest himself through other forms of nature he is not a person. You don’t say a dove is a person though they can be referred to as he or she. The dove didn’t become a person just because the Holy Ghost embodied the dove. Neither did the hogs become people because the evil spirits entered them Reply August 25, 2018 Louise Cummings Yes. Acts 1:8. -John 16:1:3 – Howbeit when He,(He is a person)the Spirit Of Truth is come, He will guide you into all Truth : for He shall not speak of Himself: but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and ?He will show you things to come. ( see how many times He said He. – He is a person. And it He would shoe us things to come. Reply August 25, 2018 Louise Cummings He would guide us in all Truths. That should be real plain He is a person. He would guide us. And led us. And even show us things to come. Reply August 25, 2018 Louise Cummings I just wrote him in our Cummings page. Wrote on Scripture down. Yes He is a person. I have never heard anything called He that wasn’t a Person. Acts I: 8. The main one that He is a Person is John 16:13. Howbeit when He, The Spirit Of Truth is Come, He (I never heard anything except a person called He. ) He will guide you into all Truth. ( so we find He guides) for He shall not speak of Himself ; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He He speak. (So He hears). : and He will show you things to come. ( so He shows you things to come. ) Reply August 25, 2018 Louise Cummings I didn’t know the first time I answered that it was here on this same page. I apologize. But if I erased on might be the one understood better. Which ever one is better. I will erase the other, if you think it would be better. Reply August 25, 2018 Louise Cummings I guess you can add my name to the list above. But what the Bible says. You can hold on to it. It never passes away. Reply August 25, 2018 Varnel Watson Casper the ghost is a person why would the Holy Ghost not be? Reply August 27, 2018 Scotty Searan Casper a fictitious character Reply August 25, 2018 Terry Wiles Yes. It is heresy to say other. Reply August 25, 2018 Varnel Watson a bit harsh? Terry Wiles Reply August 26, 2018 Aberdeen Chan “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” – 1 John 5:7 Reply August 26, 2018 Varnel Watson How do you feel this verse relates to the OP question? Reply August 26, 2018 Aberdeen Chan Troy Day We can’t refer Holy Spirit as ‘it’ for the three are one, but should refer as a person the Father and Jesus. Furthermore, Jesus addresses the Holy Spirit of truth as Him. John 14:15-17, The Promise of the Spirit “If you love Me, keep My commandments. I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Counselor, that He may be with you forever: the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, for it does not see Him, neither does it know Him. But you know Him, for He lives with you, and will be in you.” Reply August 26, 2018 Varnel Watson I agree with that though not sure how you see that in 1Jn Reply August 26, 2018 Aberdeen Chan Troy Day When people ask about whether the Holy Spirit is a person, 1 John 5:7 and John 14:15-17 are the two main verses to be focused on to tackle such question. This is about the Trinity which relates to our faith our belief. Reply August 27, 2018 Varnel Watson you said that already but why 1 John 5:7 – says nothing about a person there Reply August 27, 2018 Aberdeen Chan Troy Day if the three are one, all three are person, or none of them are, because they are one. Reply August 27, 2018 Varnel Watson but Scotty Searan is making the argument from anthropology that your body soul and spirit are also one yet this doesnt make your spirit alone a person. And even Terry Wiles is having troubles answering that Reply August 27, 2018 Aberdeen Chan Troy Day We all know that we human is consist of our body, soul, and spirit. And we also know that water is in three states of matter, solid, liquid, and gas, in general, so please do leave those other states of matter like plasma and Bose-Einstein condensates aside. But God is our Creator, and he has the rights to reveal what is necessary for us to get the salvation. As we are discussing about the Trinity because the Bible mentions only the three which matter for our salvation. If there are four or five etc., we should able find out on the judgement day when we see God face to face. As the creature which made by God, we are having difficulty to try to comprehend our Creator, and the Bible is only sufficient to bring us back to God with the right relationship. Indeed, it is tough for us to explain base on our limted knowledge and perspective. 1 Corinthians 13:12, “Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.” Reply August 27, 2018 Varnel Watson I see your point I just dont see it made in the 1Jn verse Reply August 27, 2018 Aberdeen Chan Troy Day John 14:15-17 should be the best verses for answering whether the Holy Spirit is a person, or not. And 1 John 5:7 further explain that this person – the Holy Spirit is as equal as the Father, the Word (became fresh, Jesus), because they are one single entity. These verses should be the basic for us to be able to substantial the Trinity doctrine. Reply August 27, 2018 Varnel Watson Of course, but I still dont see how this verse proves what the question asks. Like stated above, is your human spirit a person? This is the question Scotty is asking Reply August 27, 2018 Aberdeen Chan Troy Day I would say, yes. Because in salvation point of view, when a person’s spirit left his/her physical body due to death, that dead body isn’t the one who face the judgement. We only treat the dead person’s body in remembrance while we are still on this earth. I wonder why were Michael and Satan disputing over the body of Moses? Seem that Satan tried to impersonating Moses to influences God’s people. That verse is just a part of the answer, if we refer all related verses in perspective, will give us a clearer picture. Reply August 26, 2018 Varnel Watson Aberdeen Chan is this verse in the original Greek? Reply August 26, 2018 Aberdeen Chan This verse is from the King James Version. Reply August 26, 2018 Varnel Watson yes but was it in the original Greek? Reply August 26, 2018 Aberdeen Chan Troy Day Yes, this verse is in the original Greek. However, there is an issue about the Johannine Comma (aka Comma Johanneum) in the 1 John 5:7-8. Reply August 26, 2018 Varnel Watson No the verse is actually NOT in the original Greek http://probible.net/1-john-57/ Reply August 26, 2018 Aberdeen Chan Troy Day I’m not a Greek Bible reader, I can’t tell. https://bible.org/article/textual-problem-1-john-57-8 https://www.gotquestions.org/Comma-Johanneum.html Reply August 26, 2018 Aberdeen Chan Troy Day But who has the original Greek text ever in the history? http://www.kjvtoday.com/home/the-father-the-word-and-the-holy-ghost-in-1-john-57 Reply August 26, 2018 Varnel Watson verse was not there to begin with – KJV is wrong Reply August 26, 2018 Aberdeen Chan Troy Day I’m sorry to hear that. Maybe the ‘KJV Only’ Christians might have something to say on this. Reply August 26, 2018 Varnel Watson pls inform yourself pls The Comma Johanneum is missing in Erasmus’ first edition of 1516 from which KJV was later adopted http://textus-receptus.com/wiki/1_John_5:7 John 5:7 belongs in the King James Bible and was preserved by faithful Christians. But the passage was removed from many Greek manuscripts, because of the problems it seemed to cause. http://www.chick.com/ask/articles/1john57.asp Reply August 26, 2018 Russ Conner Yes He is. Reply August 27, 2018 Bobbi Goff Klein Someone said something to me a couple of weeks ago. They did not know what was going on in my life. They said The Holy Spirit has not left you. But, the Holy spirit has left the church. I asked them to explain, they said the leaders of your church has left The Holy Spirit. Them telling me that has lifted my heart. I thought I personally had done something for The Holy Spirit to leave. I needed that word. Reply August 27, 2018 Varnel Watson even IF leaders of your church have left The Holy Spirit this does not mean that The Holy Spirit has left the church Reply August 27, 2018 Bobbi Goff Klein This person was saying the leaders of the church has abandoned the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit starts to move, one will start talking. They don’t let the Spirit to continue. That’s the best way I can tell it. I excepted what this person said to me. I started watching the services and it was true. Reply August 27, 2018 Varnel Watson even IF leaders of your church have left The Holy Spirit this does not mean that The Holy Spirit has left the church Reply August 27, 2018 Terry Wiles Scotty Searan And that is why it is time to bring this conversation to an end. Made up minds that reject historical and academically sound evidence continue to believe even the earth is flat. Troy Day. So with that I wish you all well. Reply August 27, 2018 Terry Wiles Scotty Searan you have continually denied the existence of more than two Divine spiritual beings. Reply August 27, 2018 Scotty Searan Terry Wiles I have not denied the existence of the Holy Ghost as spiritual being. But He does not have a body as God the Father or Jesus Christ the Son of God You have not read my statements clearly. I do believe in the 4th man who was like the Son of God How did Nebuchadnezzar know about the Son of God. If this is the Holy Ghost and not the Son of God because of the word like. The Holy Ghost is present in the body of a person which i have always said the Holy Ghost has to have something he can manifest himself with and it does have to be a person. Was the LORD mentioned in Genesis 18 God, Jesus Christ or the Holy Ghost? Remember later on in Exodus God told Moses that no man had looked on His face and lived. One other question was Jesus Christ a Spirit before He was physically made? Is it possible that this was the Holy Ghost becoming a person to manifest himself in. Could God have put the Holy Ghost from God in a person for that appointed time. We know the Holy Ghost comes from God and Jesus Christ the Son Reply August 27, 2018 Varnel Watson So if he is visible he is a person then? Reply August 27, 2018 Scotty Searan Troy Day I did not say the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost must have vessel whom He can manifest himself in or with. One more time God has a body, Jesus Christ has a body, the Holy Ghost is the Spirit coming out from both GOD and JESUS but has no body,yet the Holy Ghost can manifest himself through the body of a person or some other entity God and Jesus Christ each has a body dedicated for themselves The Holy Ghost is the conduit between the two where by they have fellowship but he has no dedicated body for himself so he is not a person with flesh such as God and Jesus. Reply August 27, 2018 Scotty Searan Terry Wiles Is this not scriptural proof and Stephens dying testimony that God has a body?Exodus 33:20-23 20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. 21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: 22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: 23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. Reply August 27, 2018 Varnel Watson Scotty Searan I am truly lost in your Trinitarianism If you did not say the Holy Ghost, what are we all talking about here? Reply August 27, 2018 Scotty Searan Troy Day I left off part of what I intended to say (was not part of the Godhead). I edited the comment. Reply August 27, 2018 Scotty Searan The use of pronouns does not make an object a person. They were having this debate in the 300’s and 400’s and the trinitarians were the ones that instituted the Holy Ghost as a Person. A spirits needs an entity to work through. Reply August 28, 2018 Varnel Watson are you now saying the Spirit of God has no entity to work through? – the Trinity is His entity which makes him a person there’s the whole debate if one gets it Reply August 28, 2018 Varnel Watson Scotty Searan following the lead of pastor bishop doctor reverend Terry Wiles I will go on a record here and say that your view is fundamentally wrong on this issue and several others. If you would like to discuss it openly I can go on and explain why… Reply August 28, 2018 Scotty Searan Go on i will listen. Reply August 28, 2018 Varnel Watson I know; Reply August 28, 2018 Ron Culbreth Don’t mean to burst anyone’s bubble, and yes, I believe the Holy Spirit is a He but, can anyone tell me why pneuma has a feminine ending. Reply August 29, 2018 Varnel Watson not pneuma but the Heb. ruah – already addressed above Pneuma is neuter BTW Scotty Searan Leave a Reply Click here to cancel reply. Cancel replyComment Name Email Website This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.