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Pre-Tribulation – Arab-Israeli War 1 Psalm 83 – The Arab-Israeli War
Does Psalm 83 predict an imminent war that is about to break out in the Middle East? Is Israel about to conquer its surrounding neighbors and occupy their lands, expanding its territories? Some students of prophecy believe this, but is it consistent with Scripture? While it is fair to say that Psalm 83 is a prophetic Psalm with application beyond its original context as an imprecatory prayer written in the 10th Century B.C., the view that it is referring to a specific war that takes place prior to and distinct from other antichristic end time battles, as we will see, stands in direct conflict with Scripture.
“Surely the Sovereign LORD does nothing without revealing His plan to His servants the prophets.” (Amos 3:7)
End-time experts speak a lot about the Gog-Magog war of Ezekiel 38–39, a prophecy that predicts a powerful confederacy, apparently led by Russia, that is destined to someday invade Israel. Some think that its fulfillment is even knocking at our door.
But a lesser known prophecy is gaining momentum and importance for our day: Psalm 83, in which a different confederacy attempts to wipe out Israel.
This psalm seems to be addressing current issues in the Middle East—nations conspiring to destroy Israel.
Israeli military experts explained that the IDF would secure the borders with Lebanon and along the West Bank before moving on to Gaza.
If the military experts knew of Biblical prophecy, they never mentioned it. Still, the reason for my concern is Psalm 83.
In Psalm 83, Israel is invaded from inside Gaza, down from Lebanon, and across the West Bank by Syria and Jordan.
The invasion of Psalm 83 has one purpose – “They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance” (Psalm 83:4). The invaders want to obliterate Israel so completely that no one will even remember she existed.
The list of the attackers is listed in Psalm 83:6-8. We can see who the Bible is talking about by comparing a Bible time map with a modern map and following the ancestry line.
“The Tabernacles of Edom” = Biblical Edom is the area of southern Jordan today.
“Ishmaelites” = Arabs.
“Moab” = Central Jordan.
“Hagarenes” = A group of descendants of Ishmael.
“Gebal” = A city in Lebanon.
“Ammon” = The area of northern Jordan and the nation’s capital city.
“Amalek” = The area bordering southern Israel.
“Philistines” = The Palestinians and the area of the Gaza Strip.
“The inhabitants of Tyre” = Tyre is a city in Lebanon.
Psalm 83 describes the battle’s outcome with no good news for the invading armies. Psalm 83:13-15, “O my God, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind. As the fire burneth a wood, and as the flame setteth the mountains on fire; so persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm.”
Lesson 2: Pre-Tribulation – Arab-Israeli War 2
Rapture in relation to the Arab-Israeli War
Some scholars argue that Psalm 83:3 indicates that the rapture will occur prior to the ArabIsraeli war
o Verse 3: ‘sheltered ones’ (NKJV), ‘hidden ones’ (KJV), or ‘those you protect’ (NRSV)
This is not a reference to the raptured church because the war described:
Is to destroy the Jewish state (Psalm 83:4)
Is to capture the promised land of Israel (Psalm 83:12)
Is not directed against Christians.
This is more likely a reference to the faithful remnant of Jews that are protected
through the tribulation period.
There is nothing that precludes the rapture from happening prior to the Arab-Israeli war
o It would be a good catalyst to embolden Israel’s immediate neighbors into starting such
a conflict.
o The rapture would provide ideal conditions for this conflict to ensue.
It would likely reduce or eliminate United States influence in the Middle East
region due to the significant number of Christians in the population.
o This is not a necessary condition to enable a large-scale Middle East conflict.
The Arab-Israeli War
This war is the prelude to the Gog and Magog war because it includes all of Israel’s immediate
neighboring countries and enemies.
o “The house of Israel will no longer be hurt by prickly briers or painful thorns from all
their neighbors who treat them with contempt.” (Ezekiel 28:24)
o Verses 5-8 list the alliance against Israel.
Lesson 2: Pre-Tribulation – Arab-Israeli War 3
“For they have conspired with one mind; they form an alliance against You—
the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites, Moab and the Hagrites, Gebal, Ammon,
and Amalek, Philistia with the inhabitants of Tyre. Even Assyria has joined
them; they lend support to the sons of Lot.” (Psalm 83: 5-8)
The modern names for these adversaries are Jordan, Lebanon, the Negev into
the Sinai, Gaza, Syria into western Iraq, the Palestinians, as well as Hamas, and
Hezbollah
Anonymous
Philip Williams Oscar Valdez Neil Steven Lawrence Stephan Webb Steve Losee Duane L Burgess Roger Lewis Israeli military experts explained that the IDF would secure the borders with Lebanon and along the West Bank before moving on to Gaza.
If the military experts knew of Biblical prophecy, they never mentioned it. Still, the reason for my concern is Psalm 83.
In Psalm 83, Israel is invaded from inside Gaza, down from Lebanon, and across the West Bank by Syria and Jordan.
The invasion of Psalm 83 has one purpose – “They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance” (Psalm 83:4). The invaders want to obliterate Israel so completely that no one will even remember she existed.
The list of the attackers is listed in Psalm 83:6-8. We can see who the Bible is talking about by comparing a Bible time map with a modern map and following the ancestry line.
“The Tabernacles of Edom” = Biblical Edom is the area of southern Jordan today.
“Ishmaelites” = Arabs.
“Moab” = Central Jordan.
“Hagarenes” = A group of descendants of Ishmael.
“Gebal” = A city in Lebanon.
“Ammon” = The area of northern Jordan and the nation’s capital city.
“Amalek” = The area bordering southern Israel.
“Philistines” = The Palestinians and the area of the Gaza Strip.
“The inhabitants of Tyre” = Tyre is a city in Lebanon.
Psalm 83 describes the battle’s outcome with no good news for the invading armies. Psalm 83:13-15, “O my God, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind. As the fire burneth a wood, and as the flame setteth the mountains on fire; so persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm.”
Anonymous
Troy Day It has begun, look up, your redemption draweth nigh.
Anonymous
Troy Day The state of Israel that exists is a British colonial creation since only 14th May 1948! It was created upon the Genocide of the indigenous Palestinian population whose dna extends to the Canaanites and Phoenicians!
They are not the Jewish people! They are European Zionist’s who occupy another’s land and hold to mostly Atheism making the war not religious but on borders!
Push aside what the corrupted book holds the world majority including Christians, whose Churches are also destroyed, also support Free Palestine and are against the genocide in Gaza, watch what happens with babies, women, children, elderly, families wiped out.. even a girl whose family of 40 was wiped out!
The IDF continues to destroy and persecute lives daily and commit atrocities that are beyond humane and constitutes the very evil and Shaytaans work on this world..
Wake up.. this is not your Biblical prophecy.. this is Colonisation.. Genocide and Occupation by a illegal state that is not even recognised as Jewish by the diasporas around the world.. Judaism teaches that they are not allowed to return.. and what Israel does is against their law.. it was always Palestine since the beginning.. the fabricated state is a oppressive colonial creation..
Free Palestine, Gaza resist☝🏻, all humans recognise this and can support
🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
Anonymous
Troy Day https://youtu.be/FuTiOp9dw4Y?si=kbryljSZ5mS6I3D0
Anonymous
Vladimir Josef Dubsky Nevsky why do you call this a genocide when 10/7 happened?
Did the Hamas attackers warn civilians to flee? Did they drop notes of such warnings?
Is the nation of Israel beheading infants, gang raping pregnant women, cutting open their wombs, killing their fetuses and then killing the pregnant women?
If Israel wanted a genocide, they are a nuclear power. Wouldn’t the Palestinians already be wiped out of Gaza?
If the nukes fell into the hands of Hamas what do you think would happen to Israel?
What does “from the river to the sea” mean to you?
If Hamas would lay down their weapons, the civilians in Gaza would be saved and Palestinians could still have land. If Israel lays down their weapons, THAT will ensure their genocide!
Anonymous
tell us more about what you think here Greg Jones
Anonymous
well Tommy Jr Xenos I see @ least to 2 sides here – do you NOT?
Anonymous
Vladimir Josef Dubsky Nevsky well the state of Alabama does NOT represent all Americans, but Philip Williams does represent all tarheels
Anonymous
Troy Day And “Americans” as much do not represent the population that had the original land rights in North America, they are illegal European occupiers who had genocide the native population to then settle their people in. They are as legal as Israel is now, the same with the Oceanian nations.
Ask the natives of all these Western colonial states, they sympathise with Palestine because they know what it is like, and they still want their land back.
It is understandable why these Governments back this..
And “Americans” is not the people of the United States, an American is someone from the Americas, of North, Central and South America, collectively. Including the Americans from the United States of America but not of Americans.. a difference.
Anonymous
Troy Day my point is you seem more combative then conversational my apologies for not clarifying
Anonymous
Vladimir Josef Dubsky Nevsky same argument counts FOR The Battle of Prague, which occurred between 25 July and 1 November 1648 was the last action of the Thirty Years’ War
Anonymous
Tommy Jr Xenos I dont see it any such way BUT lets talk theology instead of talking about ppl I can talk about you all day long with NO point Why would you make a point on the internet about a person youVE never met? No point in correcting anyone on the internet you do not know – this is childish Let’s talk about the THEOLOGY of this post or ANY other of 10 000 theological topics in this group – no1 noSu here
Anonymous
Link Hudson 1 psalm earlier Jesus alludes directly to Psalm 82, where the elohim (gods) receive the word of God in the form of judgment and condemnation. Against his accusers, Jesus was appealing to the precedent already established in the Torah, which referred to God’s holy ones, or his divine council, as “gods” (elohim).
Anonymous
Troy Day amen
Anonymous
Henry Clark hello
Anonymous
No!
Anonymous
Philip Williams yes you are wrong again may be Neil Steven Lawrence knows
Anonymous
Troy Day God’s Israel are those who serve him and proclaim his Name! He will not help this Israel who despise his Name.
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire well Philip Williams thinks its America 2go 1st
Anonymous
Philip Williams there are many who are Messianic living in the land. But remember Jerusalem is trodden by the Gentiles until the end. Trodden is euphemism for ruled by I believe.
Anonymous
Troy Day America has been the refuge in the wilderness for the last few hundred years, but has become the 2nd beast.
Anonymous
now what is @everyone think about this one?
Anonymous
Troy Day with all due respect I have no interest in engaging in this
Anonymous
Tommy Jr Xenos how do you mean? – what is your purpose here ?
Anonymous
Troy Day I will talk Pentecostal theology all day! I feel this post isn’t done for a conversation and rather is going to be a one sided conversation so I choose not to engage when dialogue won’t be had
Anonymous
Tommy Jr Xenos yet I do not see you talking Pentecostal theology all day #sad
Anonymous
It could be Psalm 83 and Isaiah 11. Have to see how it develops. If Jordan gets involved it is a better indicator because they surround Jerusalem. If the scattered tribes of the northern House of Isreal have the fire spread to them and war breaks out were we are all exiled, that is an even better indicator. If it is, look for Jerusalem to fall before the tide turns (Zechariah 14), and the borders are expanded.
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire so is this the final war OR more to come soon ?
Anonymous
Troy Day the psalm 89/Isaiah 11 war is not the last. It is what brings the house of Isreal (those scattered among the seed of men and beast who were given a shelter in the wilderness and grafted back into the strong root of Jacob who most think of as the church) and the house of Judah (Jews) back together and moves the boarders to what God promised. This could be that war, or it could just be one of the many wars and rumors of wars before the end. The indicators mentioned above will help, but probably won’t be definitive until we see the fulfillment of all.
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire psalm 89 ? — A maskil of Ethan the Ezrahite.
Anonymous
Troy Day I meant 83. I was talking about 89:34 with someone else earlier.
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire Psalm 89:34 KJV – My covenant will I not break, nor alter
Anonymous
Troy Day yeah, different subject, different people. Sometime my brain is moving faster than my fingers can.
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire hope you can catch with it before it runs away from you
Anonymous
Jeremiah 47
Anonymous
Junior Beasley tell us MORE about your take on this Jer 47
Anonymous
Troy Day tell me when u have read it and we will talk about it.
Anonymous
Hamas is destroyed to never rise again.
Anonymous
Junior Beasley Psalm 89:34 KJV – My covenant will I not break, nor alter
Anonymous
No. I know we, as Pentecostals love to see the eleventh hour in much of what happens, but we need to take care and let the Lord play things out. He said
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father”
Anonymous
Jenny Davila-Holloway 11:59
Anonymous
Vladimir Josef Dubsky Nevsky some of our historical data is partial. Are you saying this conflict is the same as the Red Army entering Slovakia in 1968? https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/soviets-invade-czechoslovakia
Anonymous
Troy Day As a Czech myself – the better representation of the Prague Spring was due to it’s many misinterpretations and the propaganda that took place, makes it a fascination of the West that I can never understand.
But in truth it was an involvement of a Western Bourgeois Liberal instalment of a Social Democratic Party under Alexander Dubček and resulted in the collective invasion of the Warsaw Pact, not the Красный Армии that liberated us from the National Socialists, that intervened, but poorly managed.
In truth it was a betrayal of the Socialist system that made the country better but it was due to the Union of Socialist Republics (СССР Советский Союз) becoming Revisionist and had long exited the path of Marxist-Leninism and was not Socialist anymore for a very long time.
It resulted in the brainwashing propaganda of the corporate capitalistic NATO West bringing perversive Liberalism after Socialisms fall and then the Czechia into a NATO slave like many other countries under the United States and NATOs domain.
It was also not an invasion of Slovakia, but of Czechoslovakia which comprised of the current day Czech Republic, Slovakia, and the Ruthenia now part of Ukraine today. Czechs and Slovaks are also two completely different groups.
https://icp.sol.org.tr/interviews/communist-youth-union-czech-republic-reviews-prague-spring
Anonymous
SO What is really going on here Jeremiah Würz Jared G. Cheshire “Surely the Sovereign LORD does nothing without revealing His plan to His servants the prophets.” (Amos 3:7)
End-time experts speak a lot about the Gog-Magog war of Ezekiel 38–39, a prophecy that predicts a powerful confederacy, apparently led by Russia, that is destined to someday invade Israel. Some think that its fulfillment is even knocking at our door.
But a lesser known prophecy is gaining momentum and importance for our day: Psalm 83, in which a different confederacy attempts to wipe out Israel.
This psalm seems to be addressing current issues in the Middle East—nations conspiring to destroy Israel. https://www.pentecostalnews.com/2023/11/04/vatican-approves-beatification-process-for-martyrs-of-kandhamal-anti-christian-violence/
Anonymous
Troy Day gog-magog isn’t until after the millennial reign. It is the cumulative effect of the dragon being released for a little season and the people being decived once again.
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire yes thatS the Adventist view but not ours https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/gog-magog-russia-persia-sudan-ethiopia-libya-algeria-and-turkey/
Anonymous
Troy Day it’s the biblical view, I couldn’t care less who agrees or doesn’t.
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire naaah – you are way off on this one
Anonymous
Troy Day I don’t follow Darby, so I’ll just stick with Bible.
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire I also don’t follow Darby BUT post-mil is heretical and it cannot be proven with the BIBLE [period] Oscar Nabakwi knows!
Anonymous
Troy Day you do follow Darby. Rapture, dispensationalism, and replacement theology. All creatures of Darby, never heard of before the 1820s.
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire I do not follow Darby
I am not dispensationalist as I have clarified millions of times in this group and especially to Oscar Valdez who is NOT happy about it
Of course no one heard of darby before darby
just like no one heard of Brett Dobbs before Dobbs
HOWEVER, Virtually ALL Church Fathers Believed in Pre-Trib Rapture
cause this is what the BIBLE says –
you can prove pre-trib with the BIBLE easy
You cannot prove post-mil with the BIBLE @ all
And Duane L Burgess Terry Wiles have showed us why
https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/the-ancient-church-fathers-too-believed-in-pre-trib-rapture/
Anonymous
Troy Day I didn’t say you were a dispensationalist. I just said you followed Darby and listed his 3 major doctrines the invented. I took a chance you would punch at least 2 holes in that card. Besides, I couldn’t care less what the church “fathers” thought, although rapture wasn’t one of their teachings, I care what scripture says. Rapture can only come from a misunderstanding of harpadzo.
Anonymous
yes IF you are ignorant of the church fathers
You will of course not know they believed pre-trib
POSTMIL is heretical @ best
Even Augustine was a-mil instead
and Kyle Williams knows this well
Anonymous
Troy Day lies.
Anonymous
Brett Dobbs correct POST-mills based on ALL LIES
no way to be proven by the BIBLE
Augustine was a-mil for this very reason
Anonymous
Troy Day I agree post mil is wrong.
So is the idea that the early church believed in a pre trib
Anonymous
Brett Dobbs hahah you bring that clown again who never read the original ? Why did he run when I invited him to OPEN debate here
ANSWER – he never read Irenaeus in ORIGINAL
He didnt even know where to find the source 🙂
clowns out there will lie ALL day long – – –
but when you read the Original it is ALL clear
Anonymous
Troy Day yes Agustine was Amil. I would be quicker to call pre-millenalism heresy. The Heidelberg Catechism calls it a “Jewish Myth”
Anonymous
Kyle Williams yes Agustin was Amil. Tell it to Jared G. Cheshire
“Jewish Myth” simply means pre-mil was what Jesus believed
Heidelberg Catechism (1563) was composed in the city of Heidelberg, Germany, at the request of and paid by Elector Frederick III #noughSaid
Anonymous
Troy Day you dealt with one section in the original. Joel Richardson lays out several statements from Irenaeus along with many other authors. So Troy, do your homework watch all that content and then come back.
Greek, Latin, English, it doesn’t matter. You’re using translation issues as your scapegoat because that’s all you have. Since none of us who are challenging you know Greek or Latin.
So why don’t you just accept the truth. You can still hang on to your pre trib rapture theory. But stop dragging the early church in with you. Be honest. And look at the content
Anonymous
I dealt with ALL sections that clown misinterpreted
Do I need to bring the archives where I debunked his fake theory
and proved he never read the original texts 🙂
for which reason he run far and fast
Greek, Latin, English DO matter!
Anonymous
saints refers to ISRAEL Duane L Burgess post-mil is SO Biblically WRONG that needs apocrypha to be proven in any way shape and form !!!
Anonymous
Troy Day I find it humorous that you only go to other men to support your claim. Where are the scriptures?
Anonymous
youD see Duane L Burgess ppl citing apocrypha when they have NO Bible 🙂
Anonymous
https://www.pentecostalnews.com/2023/11/04/israel-at-war-day-29-fears-that-violence-in-the-west-bank-could-spike/
Anonymous
Joseph D. Absher 169th gave me this many moons ago ; Jared G. Cheshire the chains hanging on the back of the tanks catch smaller projectiles not to hit the weaker back plate of the machine and damage it
Media: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1986281865090092&set=p.1986281865090092&type=3
Anonymous
https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/ezekiel-38-war-on-israel-ukraine-russia-and-syria/
Anonymous
Kyle Williams before you falsely accuse of lies go read De civitate Dei in original
Originally a premillennialist, Augustine turned away from the system (Augustine, Sermons, 259; City of God 20:7).
Anonymous
Troy Day of course, I don’t deny that. He was also a devote of Mani, at one time
Anonymous
Kyle Williams amil denies Rev 20 of course Duane L Burgess showed
Anonymous
Kyle Williams Brett Dobbs Philip Williams I did not see ANY argument yall have presented from theology on this one as per a-mil or post-mil positions. Duane L Burgess explained HOW postmil is NOT BIblical and I showed Augustine was def. a-mil In 1962, philosopher-scientist Thomas Kuhn coined the term “paradigm shift” to signal a massive change in the way a community thinks about a particular topic.1 Examples of paradigm shifts include Copernicus’s discovery that the earth revolves around the sun, Einstein’s theory of relativity, and Darwin’s theory of evolution. Each changed the world of thought (some for better, some for worse) in a fundamental way.
From a political perspective, Constantine’s Edict of Milan, issued in AD 313, constituted the formal beginning of a major paradigm shift that signaled the end of the ancient world and the beginning of the medieval period. That edict legitimated Christianity and impressed upon it the Empire’s stamp of approval.
Anonymous
Troy Day you mean, do I have a counter argument against that “we may be seeing psalm 83 playing out before our eyes”?
We may be. This part definitely
Psalms 83:4 (KJV) They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from [being] a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.
But, the rest of the psalm is a prayer. Is Israel praying that prayer today? I don’t know.
But I don’t see how any of this has anything to do with the rapture.
Anonymous
Brett Dobbs not sure what you have @ this point of time
you have not presented anything theological as of YET
I refuted all your 4 ENGLISH texts and can do it again
Anonymous
Troy Day what 4 English text are talking about? Are you talking about the Irenaeus quotes on another post?
If so, I don’t think you ever responded to all the quotes. Basically the only response you gave to me on them was “I know Greek and you don’t”.
Your refusing to deal with the English translation that I presented. Feel free to present to me a different English translation of all the quotes that I mentioned. And no it can’t be your own translation, that would be biased.