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| PentecostalTheology.com
In 1 Cor. 14:15, it is written,
15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also. NASB
ΙΕʹ τί οὖν ἐστιν προσεύξομαι τῷ πνεύματι προσεύξομαι δὲ καὶ τῷ νοΐ ψαλῶ τῷ πνεύματι ψαλῶ δὲ καὶ τῷ νοΐ TR, 1550
What, if any, is the difference between praying «τῷ πνεύματι» (NASB: “with the spirit”) versus «τῷ νοΐ» (NASB: “with the mind”)? Or, is the apostle Paul using a parallelism thus equating the πνεῦμα with the νοῦς?
Varnel Watson
Link Hudson William DeArteaga
Link Hudson
Troy Day you should read the rest of the paragraph. The aspect of I Corinthians 14 the Artical addresses is along the lines of ‘order of service.’ Even the cessationsist could apply this aspect of I Corinthians 14 to singing certain types of psalms and teaching doctrine–two things mentioned in my post. Have you read the De Arteaga article?
Most of I Corinthians 14 deals with tongues and prophecy. My comment was about one aspect of verse 26.
But why are you taking about this on a thread that is not related much to the topic?
Varnel Watson
Link Hudson pls give me the exact verses you need and I will do my best to provide them in due time but let me start by saying that I have found your interpretation of 1 Cor chapters 12 and 14 entirely baptistic. This means that in my theological view it is very close if not actually cessational and somewhat completely non-Pentecostal. I do say somewhat here for a reason.
May I humbly suggest to you reading “On the Cessation of the Charismata” by Jon Ruthven in order to gain some actual Pentecostal perspective on the issue http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/jon-ruthven-on-karl-barth/
and also Agnes Sanford and Her Companions: The Assault on Cessationism by William DeArteaga http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/agnes-sanford-and-her-companions-the-assault-on-cessationism/
Link Hudson
Troy Day why not read the article we are discussing which deals mainly with the service order of I Corinthians 14 onward?
If there is some belief of mine you consider cessationist, point it out specifically instead of referring me to whole hooks to read.
Your views on pastors seem very Baptistic rather than purely New Testament to me.
I do not get why you would xall my beliefs on gifts ‘Baptistic’. What Baptists allow saints to exercise gifts freely within the guidelines of I Corintjians14? A Charismatuc Baptist CPM house church maybe. But that isn’t ” Baptisric” as far as I know.
I am advocating for something more Pentecostal than the current Pentecostal movement–a recovery of something they did at Azusa Street and going beyond that. Thus is also what this article encourages pastors to cobsider.
The only thing I can see tgat you might call Baptistic is the points Paul is making about order and edification in regard to tongues being interpretted–stuff the A/G Bible college professors I spent time around in my youth believed in and rgat shows up in an A/G position paper. That is Pentecostal teaching also.
Everyone speaking in tongues at the same time and encouraging that in the meetings is probably an old Pentecostal movement practice–just not a Biblical one. Having or seeking to have Biblical order in regard to tongues is a Pentecostal practice too. Seymour realized they needed to have speaking in tongues in an orderly way at Azusa Street and wrote about this realization in his Apostolic Times newsletter. So both ideas or practices go vack to the early days of the movement. If certain Baptists ctiticize certain Pentecostal churxhes for departing from Biblical order why would tgat nake Biblical irder “Baptistic”? Baptists immerse. Is that Baptistic and not Pentecostal?
Varnel Watson
Again which article? The one I wrote or another?
Varnel Watson
Link Hudson I still wanted to hear your take on gifts and tongues in 1 Cor 14:!5 from the Greek language
Link Hudson
I see them as different. Equating them does not make sense in context. Seems more like a semantic isse rather than a Greek grammatical issue.
Varnel Watson
That they are different is clear, the question is HOW?