If we say we have free will, then…

Posted by Peter Christian in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

If we say we have free will, when was the time or when were the times in which we never sinned?

23 Comments

  • Reply December 25, 2016

    Hunter McLain

    When we are born we are sinless.

  • Reply December 26, 2016

    Dolores Robinson Volk

    When the Holy Spirit compels me not to do so and I am obedient to His Will.

  • Reply December 26, 2016

    Varnel Watson

  • Reply December 26, 2016

    Rico Hero

    Pete,

    If we say that we do not have free will, we accuse Jesus of lying ( for he offers all choice) and will suffer the consequence for it.

    Luke 13:3-5King James Version (KJV)

    3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

    4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

    5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

    AS to your question ,” when were the times which we never sinned”?

    It was at Creation, for Adam was created sinless and ” choose” to sin

    Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    Now that Jesus atoned for that sin that passed upon all, sin no longer reigns

    Romans 6:12-23King James Version (KJV)

    12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

    13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

    14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

    15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

    16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

    18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

  • Reply December 26, 2016

    Peter Christian

    Rico Hero do slaves have will that is free?

  • Reply December 26, 2016

    Rico Hero

    Peter, of course, slaves have will that is free to choose. If it wasn’t so, Jesus would not offer choice–to repent or perish. You calling Jesus a liar?

  • Reply December 26, 2016

    Deborah S. Hamilton

    1) I see free-will as a “gift” that God gave to all humanity and, in this present age of grace since Christ came, we use it to accept Christ or not accept Him and to make godly and ungodly decisions every single day. Our lives are affected ‘here’ and in ‘eternity’ by the choices we make now. 2) Sin is a “spiritual condition” we inherited from Adam and Eve at The Fall, which requires spiritual redemption through Christ. When we accept Christ, God’s great and amazing grace forgives us and literally covers us with the righteousness of Christ. We cannot “not sin” on our own or else we wouldn’t have needed Christ to come and ransom us. In this life we will continue to struggle with temptations that lead to sin, but we have the power of the Holy Spirit to help us if we are actually mindful to avail ourselves of His power. And, if we sin, God’s grace covers us AND we should strive to be aware of our areas of struggle so that we consciously, with God’s help, become more like Christ in our minds and decisions. There is SO MUCH more that could be filled in here, but just don’t have time.

  • Reply March 13, 2020

    Varnel Watson

    THEN you should NOT submit back to the LAW Tom Steele

    • Reply March 13, 2020

      Tom Steele

      truthi gnited sinless

    • Reply March 13, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      Tom Steele truth ignited? So sad – and OFF topic

  • Reply March 14, 2020

    Varnel Watson

    I suspect RichardAnna Boyce has no free will

  • Reply March 14, 2020

    RichardAnna Boyce

    As a believer and saint in God’s eyes, with the righteousness of God in Christ, I have never sinned in my spirit. But in my flesh dwells no good thing.

  • Reply March 14, 2020

    Varnel Watson

    never sinned in my spirit? Joe Absher Ray E Horton what can anyone say to that particular statement

    • Reply March 14, 2020

      Ray E Horton

      Of course RichardAnna Boyce is correct. Impossible to sin in our new creation born again spirit where we are in union with Christ. It’s our flesh (souls and bodies) that sin.

    • Reply March 14, 2020

      Joe Absher

      It’s not Bible it’s classic Gnosticism

  • Reply March 14, 2020

    RichardAnna Boyce

    1 John 3:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
    9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

  • Reply March 14, 2020

    RichardAnna Boyce

    God is spirit. We are born again in the spirit. John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

    9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

    10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel (Pentecostals) , and do not know these things?

  • Reply March 15, 2020

    Varnel Watson

    so RichardAnna Boyce basically you dont believe in free will Is this the problem here today?

    • Reply March 15, 2020

      RichardAnna Boyce

      Troy, of course i believe in free will, Unbelievers have free will to believe in Jesus to receive eternal life. Believers have free will to agree with God and Jesus as Lord, and earn rewards in this life and in the Millennium; or choose to be unfaithful to Jesus and lose rewards. But no one has free will to change God’s promises both to unbelievers or believers concerning their eternal destiny.

    • Reply March 15, 2020

      Varnel Watson

      RichardAnna Boyce you believe IN but do you have one? Your earning is NOT from the BIBLE

  • Reply March 15, 2020

    RichardAnna Boyce

    Troy Day Biblical Rewards.
    Rewards is a broader category than eternal significance, though eternal significance can be seen as a reward in itself. Rewards in the Bible can be enjoyed in this life or in eternity. Both prospects are unquestionably a motivation for Christian service. Christians might serve faithfully for rewards just as a boy might clean his room because he is promised a dollar to do so.
    But such an illustration will raise the question about the propriety of rewards as a motivation. Isn’t it selfish for the boy to work in order to receive a dollar?
    That is not an easy question to answer, because it necessitates judging motives. Yes, it is selfish if the boy intends to spend it only on himself (as might be expected with an immature boy). However, what if the boy wanted the dollar to spend on a gift for his parents? It seems that one’s response to rewards is ultimately an expression of one’s maturity. If someone desires rewards so that he or she can better enjoy God, serve Him, or serve others, then that motive is good.
    Thus crowns are ultimately for throwing down in worship and gratitude at the feet of the Savior who gives them (Rev 4:10). Besides, if God designs and delights to give rewards, then would it be good to deny Him that pleasure? Can the Christian’s love for God and desire to please Him be separated from the motivation to receive what God would gladly give? The parable of the vineyard workers in Matthew 20:1-15 shows that God retains the sovereign prerogative to bestow rewards.
    He is in no way indebted to do so, rather, He delights to reward His servants.
    Jesus promised that he will dispense rewards at His coming according to one’s works (Matt. 16:27; Rev. 22:12). Rewards are also tied directly to the eschatological event known as the Judgment Seat of Christ (or Bema).
    It is here that every Christian will give an account (Rom. 14:10-12)
    for what he or she has done and receive a corresponding reward (2 Cor. 5:10).
    The latter reference is especially pertinent because Paul saw the Bema judgment as a motivation for his ministry of persuading men (5:11).
    Likewise, the context for the discussion of rewards at the Bema in
    1 Corinthians 3:9-15 is in the context of ministers who build into other believers. Those who build with good motives (“gold, silver, precious stones”) will receive an unspecified reward.
    While many rewards are eternal in nature, some rewards are of a more temporal nature. Jesus promised that those who left all to follow Him would be rewarded in this life as well as in the future (Mark 10:28-31; Matt. 19:27-30. Luke 18:28-30). Other rewards that are enjoyed in this present life include (for deacons) “a good standing and great boldness in the faith” (1 Tim. 3:13), godliness that enhances life (4:8), and the “crown of life” (James 1:12). 11
    With the prospect of reward comes also the prospect for a loss of that reward.
    If gaining rewards is a positive motivation, then losing them is a negative motivation. Jesus used parables to teach the possibility of lost rewards in the kingdom (Matt. 22:1-14; 25:14-25; Luke 19:11-27). Paul noted that anyone who ministered with improper motives (“wood, hay, straw”) would have his work burned at the Judgment Seat of Christ so that he would “suffer loss” though “he himself will be saved” (1 Cor. 3:12-15). If a believer’s work is burned as useless material, it will not be rewarded.
    Serving God for the sake of rewards is not necessarily a mercenary motivation.
    God offers rewards as a way to both enhance his children’s enjoyment of His goodness and a way to console them when they sacrifice to follow Him.
    While rewards are sometimes left unspecified, it should be enough to know that they are God-given and therefore good for both He and His children.
    It may well be that the highest motivation from rewards will be the opportunity to give them back worshipfully to the Savior in the future.

  • Reply March 15, 2020

    Varnel Watson

    what biblical rewards? RichardAnna Boyce

  • Reply March 15, 2020

    RichardAnna Boyce

    2 Cor 5:10-11 “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive
    the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
    11 Knowing, therefore,
    the terror of the Lord,
    we persuade men;
    but we are well known to God,
    and I also trust
    are well known in your consciences.”
    There will/maybe
    moments of terrible grief,
    weeping, gnashing of teeth and being thrown out into the darkness outside the banqueting hall,
    outside looking in,
    for carnal Christians.

    1 John 2:28 “And now, little children, abide in Him,
    that when[a] He appears,
    we may have confidence
    and not be ashamed
    before Him at His coming.”

    2 John 8 “Look to yourselves,
    that we[a] do not lose
    those things we worked for,
    but that we[b] may
    receive a full reward.”

    1 Corinthians 3:15 “If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss;
    but he himself will be saved,
    yet so as through the fire.”

    Luke 19:26 “For I say to you, that
    to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has
    will be taken away from him.”

    1 Corinthians 13:5
    “does not seek its own” We should not seek to benefit ourselves.

    Philippians 2:3-7
    “Let nothing be done
    through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.
    4 Let each of you look out
    not only for his own interests,
    but also for the interests of others.
    5 Let this mind be in you
    which was also in Christ Jesus,
    6 who, being in the form of God,
    did not consider it robbery
    to be equal with God,
    7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
    8 And being found
    in appearance as a man,
    He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death,
    even the death of the cross.”

    Mark 8:34-36
    “Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself,
    and take up his cross,
    and follow Me.
    35 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it,
    but whoever loses his life
    for My sake and the gospel’s
    will save it.
    36 For what will it profit a man
    if he gains the whole world,
    and loses his own soul?”

    Matt 19:28-30
    “So Jesus said to them,
    “Assuredly I say to you,
    that in the regeneration,
    when the Son of Man
    sits on the throne of His glory,
    you who have followed Me
    will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
    29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters
    or father or mother or wife
    or children or lands,
    for My name’s sake,
    shall receive a hundredfold,
    and inherit eternal life.
    30 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”

    Rewards were taught
    to the Jews in Matt,
    and the Apostles would be
    rewarded with responsibilities
    as co-heirs of Christ,
    for their faithfulness
    in following Jesus by keeping the preceding Sermon on the Mount
    and other Matt parables.

    Luke 14:10-14
    “But when you are invited,
    go and sit down in the lowest place, so that when he who invited you comes he may say to you,
    ‘Friend, go up higher.’
    Then you will have glory
    in the presence of those
    who sit at the table with you.
    11 For whoever exalts himself
    will be humbled,
    and he who humbles himself
    will be exalted.”
    12 Then He also said to him
    who invited Him,
    “When you give a dinner or a supper, do not ask your friends, your brothers, your relatives,
    nor rich neighbors,
    lest they also invite you back,
    and you be repaid.
    13 But when you give a feast, invite thepoor, the maimed,
    the lame, the blind.
    14 And you will be blessed,
    because they cannot repay you;
    for you shall be repaid at
    the resurrection of the just.”

    Matthew 6:4
    “that your charitable deed
    may be in secret;
    and your Father who sees in secret
    will Himself reward you openly”

    Psalm 62:11-12
    “God has spoken Twice:
    That power belongs to God. 12 Also to You,
    O Lord, belongs mercy;
    For You render to each one according to his work.
    His love and mercy
    are the basis of His obligation
    He has committed Himself to.

    Matthew 10:40
    “Whoever gives one of these
    little ones only a cup of cold water
    in the name of a disciple,
    assuredly, I say to you, he
    shall by no means lose his reward.”

    The Parable In The Vineyard.
    Matt 20:1-16.
    The workers who were hired last (for only 1 hour) did ‘warrant a full days wages’ because they worked with right motives, and those who were hired first (all day) did not have right motives.
    This parable is not about the Gospel (given eternal life), but about reward status in the Kingdom. Rewards were earned by working for them with the right motives.

    Matthew 20:16 “So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.”
    Degrees of reward are important in the parable, as shown in earlier teaching in:-
    Matthew 5:19 “Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
    The difference Jesus said, was related to doing (Matt 6:1, 7:21, 26), and to a manifestation of the character qualities described in Sermon on the Mount (5:20-28).

    All 7 of the words for reward refer to work done, as previously detailed,
    and likewise there are degrees of punishment in hell.

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