Practical application of Pentecostal theology in politics, economy and social issues
THE real issue with Calvinism is the Limited Atonement part of TULIP
Predestination Salvation and Eternal Security are the foundation doctrines of Calvinism.
Please provide Scriptural Proof that these Doctrines are wrong.
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Philip Williams
Almost everything in Scripture refutes Calvinism, but Calvinists read Scripture through the light of determinism while refusing to examine their deterministic theology in the light of Scripture.
There is no point in debating them because they prefer to blame everything on God. This has a deep hold on them because they suppose it releases them from any and all responsibility.
God appears to have hardened most of their hearts so they can no longer turn and repent.
Mike Jones
Philip Williams that’s quite the summery! Wrong, but whatevs…..
Philip Williams
Mike Jones perhaps a bit of rhetorical exaggeration to make clear the problem. I am not necessary referring to Calvin himself but especially the new 5-point Movement pioneered by RC Sproul. To quote a long-time observer, it’s the last stage of dying faith.
It’s very understandable why the early Pentecostals to the man rejected Calvinism and why the movement developed from the Holiness revivalists.
But if you think differently, let’s hear.
Varnel Watson
I’ve never seen more antagonistic Christian forums than calvinators and oneness They would twist scripture and even when wrong will start calling names ad hominem just to be right
John-Mark Neal Hales
Troy Day well said! I know I’m argumentative on this page, but thank you for leading this page and for standing on important issues like this.
Thomas Henry Jr.
Only if one eisegete the text
Philip Williams
Thomas Henry Jr. precisely what Calvinism does.
Isn’t there a theology called Calvinism by which some interpret the Scriptures?
Thomas Henry Jr.
Philip Williams actually nope. Arminianism eisegete my friend. If you believe a salvation you cannot work to get can be lost by works then you have to ignore scripture to believe that craziness.
Be blessed!
Philip Williams
Thomas Henry Jr. First, I’m not Arminian, who are moderate Calvinists.
Secondly, this has nothing to do with salvation by works of the Law of Moses as Paul addresses and is even a separate issue than works of faith.
Philip Williams
Thomas Henry Jr. are you familiar with the ministry of former Calvinist Leighton Flowers who wonderfully addresses Calvinism? I’ll link his podcast below.
Philip Williams
https://youtu.be/nbLDQx4Ngxs
Thomas Henry Jr.
Philip Williams I am a calvinists and I’m firm in my beliefs. We spared before and I shall not be moved
Philip Williams
Thomas Henry Jr.
Yes, Just as I explain above. ?
Thomas Henry Jr.
Philip Williams I’m not moving from truth
Varnel Watson
Charles Page any time I try to ice get the Bible I get cold feet
Philip Williams
Thomas Henry Jr.
Yes, you have parked your one horse shay on what you suppose is the track of truth. But I hear Truth’s whistle coming to greet you.
https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Deacon%27s_Masterpiece
Thomas Henry Jr.
Philip Williams no sir! I’m standing my ground. If you believe your salvation that you could not work to get can be lost by works then YOU MY FRIEND don’t have the salvation scripture offers.
No links you post can convince me to turn away from so great a salvation that I found in Jesus Christ. I told you when we spared before you cannot change me. Please do try now with insults because that proves you have no argument to begin with.
Grace alone
By faith alone
Through Christ alone
Apart from any Human Works.
Romans 4-8
Romans 10:9-10
Phil 2:13
Hebrews 10
Philip Williams
Thomas Henry Jr. well thank you for demonstrating my point above for Mike Jones
Thomas Henry Jr.
Philip Williams i have demonstrated anything but my assurance of my salvation. One thing I know— those early disciples had an assurance of their salvation that Arminianism does not give. They died in faith. Went see lions and etc in full assurance of a salvation they were call and elected too.
Philip Williams
Apparently, Paul didn’t assume that he had already obtained it:
“Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.”
Philippians 3:12-14
Thomas Henry Jr.
Philip Williams Phil 2:13 it is God in us working out this salvation. You like so many other Palmerites are pushing a Roman Catholic form of salvation and calling it Holiness doctrines—Luther is flipping in his grave
Philip Williams
Thomas Henry Jr. Luther was a proud sinner like Augustine his mentor.
Jason Lohse
Thomas Henry Jr. technically if you are a determinist, you did not find this salvation you speak of. You were drawn by God and regenerated so you could believe. Therefore, if you were to be convinced that another way is more accurate, then it would thus be God’s will for you to turn from the faith you now hold to!! So don’t worry so much, if God predestines all the beginnings to the all the ends, you have no control whatsoever.
Thomas Henry Jr.
Jason Lohse you don’t understand Calvinism nor the tension between a limited free will and God’s sovereignty. May God open your eyes like he open that if the King.
Grace and Peace
Jason Lohse
Thomas Henry Jr. Do you have the ability to choose? I’m talking libertarian free will, not a compatible will. If you can’t explain this, according to a few centuries of Calvinism then you my friend do not understand it.
Thomas Henry Jr.
Jason Lohse i not adding any more people on my page that I know who holds to a salvation that is catholic in origin and not biblical. If you believe one can lose his or her salvation, then we both know a different Jesus. As I told the hateful gentleman I block no amount of Arminianism you throw at me will make me neglect such a great salvation
Thomas Henry Jr.
Jason Lohse sir, I’m not arguing with you. I studied Calvinism all of my life. Since you are classic Jimmy Swaggert Pentecostal Arminianism there is no discussion here.
RichardAnna Boyce
What “T.U.L.I.P.” Does to Assurance of Salvation
Few long-cherished doctrines of believers are more under attack today
than the belief in the possibility of assurance of salvation.
Can you know that you are saved?
Most believers would probably answer that question in the affirmative—
even if their lives might not be shining examples of Christian growth.
But the teaching of T.U.L.I.P. would allow them no such assurance.
Absolute assurance of salvation is impossible in Classical Five-Point Calvinism
and Lordship Theology.
Hard to believe…but demonstrably true.
Understand why: Since works are an inevitable outcome of “true” salvation,
one can only know he or she is saved by the presence of good works.
But since no one is perfect (although some five-point Calvinists believe in “sinless perfection”), any assurance is at best imperfect as well.
Therefore, you may think you believed in Jesus Christ, may think you had saving faith,
but be sadly mistaken.
To explain this, Calvinist theologians must create two kinds of faith,
“spurious” faith (faith that does not save) and
“genuine” faith (faith that results in works, and thus saves).
Varnel Watson
THE real issue with Calvinism is the Limited Atonement part of TULIP
Predestination Salvation and Eternal Security are the foundation doctrines of Calvinism.
Please provide Scriptural Proof that these Doctrines are wrong.
Philip Williams
This response to Calvinism from my friend who passed away last week:
https://youtu.be/fPpkSiO1Ci4
Thomas Henry Jr.
most 4-point Calvinist who believes in a unlimited atonement will also testify that only the elect will benefit from it. Which leads back to a limited atonement— for you and for many so that sins may be forgiven do this in memory of me
Philip Williams
Thomas Henry Jr. like Norm, I reject all 5 points of Calvinism.
Thomas Henry Jr.
Philip Williams you are lost anyways. I’m praying for your salvation. One thing I do know—you don’t have the Holy Spirit because liars father is the devil.
Philip Williams
Pentecostals, there should be no Calvinists among you.
Of course, I know that Pentecostal pastors turn to Calvinism when they fall into sin and don’t wish to change. ?
Thomas Henry Jr.
Philip Williams that is the biggest lie I every heard and makes me doubt the Holy Spirit is even in your life.
If you had the real Holy Ghost he would have told you I been Calvinist all of my life and later got baptized in the Spirit.
Again I doubt you got the Holy Spirit because of the lie you just told. May God forgive you of your hatred of Calvinistic believers
Philip Williams
Thomas Henry Jr. yes, Calvinists are sinners so we can also say that sinners are Calvinists. So I don’t doubt that you have been Calvinists all your life.
Thomas Henry Jr.
Philip Williams bye… you are lost. I’m done with you. It saddens me that you are in this group
Philip Williams
Thomas Henry Jr. the Judge is standing at the door!
Joshwa Bedford
Philip Williams I’m sure you have sinned so by your own admission you are a Calvinist.
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford but Calvinists remain sinners and even boast of sinning.
Joshwa Bedford
Philip Williams I have never interacted with or met a Calvinist who “boasts” of their sin. Matter of fact the Calvinist is very sensitive to their sinful nature and lives a life of perpetual repentance. Let’s face it, we sin daily so we must repent daily. The Calvinist is very sensitive to their sinful nature that they are humble enough to repent.
Joshwa Bedford
Philip Williams plus we are all sinner in need of Jesus every hour or every day.
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford
Humble Calvinist? Oxymoron
Absolutely take the cake and when it comes to religious pride.
Joshwa Bedford
Philip Williams why do you dislike your Calvinist brothers/sister so much
Joshwa Bedford
Philip Williams do you sin?
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford
The way they slander the character of God and thereby destroy faith. God will repay them!
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford if you are sinning, you should stop!
Joshwa Bedford
Philip Williams false I’ve never met a Calvinist who defames or slanders God’s Character. Actually, they submit to it and do a fantastic job at teaching on the character of God. Any humble Charismatic that I have met will admit that.
Joshwa Bedford
Philip Williams you didn’t answer my question? We cannot stop the flesh from it’s desire which is why we need Jesus everyday. Scripture does not say that we will stop sinning after conversion.
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford
See, there you are denying the power of God.
Teaching a form of Godliness but denying its power. Paul’s description of last days wickedness.
Joshwa Bedford
Philip Williams I’ve never once denied the power of God. God is mightier than any of us can ever fathom
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford yes you did! You say that his divine nature given to believers has no power to keep them from sinning!
Joshwa Bedford
Philip Williams “This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
1 John 1:5-10 ESV
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford
Certainly we all have sinned. But you hypocrites ignore what John says immediately following!
Joshwa Bedford
Philip Williams why you calling me a hypocrite? That’s unnecessary.
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford
“No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.”
1 John 3:6
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford Maybe unnecessary for Jesus to do that?
Joshwa Bedford
Philip Williams meaning blatantly sinning against God. Our flesh desires sin it craves sin.
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford so, time to die to your flesh!
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams you friend seems to be also a Calvinist just not a 5 point one
Philip Williams
Troy Day a cultural Calvinist. ?
In a very broad sense, all English-speaking Protestants, especially Americans, are Calvinist or Reformed.
What I mean is that the Puritans from which we obtain our spiritual inheritance were Calvinists, though few were 5-Point. The leaders fled to Geneva during the persecution by the Catholic Queen Bloody Mary.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams Piper may be a cultural Calvinist BUT 2 cultural Calvinists dont make it right
Philip Williams
Troy Day
Piper got enthralled by Jonathan Edwards early in his walk. I understand where he is coming from. I used to be a big Edward’s fan before I realized how he introduced modernism into American theology. Modernism (the Enlightenment) derives from Calvinism.
Varnel Watson
postmodern Piper is NO Jonathan Edwards
Joshwa Bedford
Philip Williams I have and do daily
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford make up your mind!
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford I think it’s just hypocritical words because you say it’s not working. ??
Joshwa Bedford
Philip Williams I bet you that if we were to put a recorder in your mind about every negative thought you have had about those who you disagree with on this page and we put it in a live feed you would probably never step foot in this page again. We sin in mind though and deed. Face it you fall under that category; but Jesus is able to forgive us that/those sins.
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford well you know your own wicked heart and thoughts! You are cynical just as the wicked world.
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford your false piety is something that God hates.
Joshwa Bedford
Philip Williams God loves me very much. Thank you though. We have a great relationship.
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford Maybe he loves you enough to have someone tell you the truth about yourself?
Joshwa Bedford
Philip Williams I know the truth about myself.
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford tell me about your relationship with Jesus Christ. What’s it like?
Philip Williams
Calvinism gives you a way of justifying anything and everything in your walk or faith.
Not so do the Scriptures!
Joshwa Bedford
Philip Williams I don’t need to prove anything to anyone. Blessings to you in Christ. I pray that your heart is softened and humbled towards your Reformed brothers and sisters.
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford Woe to those at ease in Zion!
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford Do you think at the Judgment that you can appeal to the Reformers?
Did Luther and Calvin die for your sins?
Joshwa Bedford
Philip Williams that’s the thing you make these blanket statements about Calvinists that they boast about their sin and claim they don’t use scripture; what you say Calvinists believe is not what Calvinists believe. You are creating to speaking a falsity that is fueled by your dislike for the Calvinist. I’m basing this statement off of this post, interactions I’ve had with you in the past, and comments I have read of yours in the past. I pray for you brother.
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford
Maybe you think that Catholics can be saved by claiming to be faithful Catholics?
And Protestants can be saved by claiming the Protestant soteriology?
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford Maybe you aren’t a Calvinist like RC Sproul and the like. But these and other Calvinists today claim that God is the author of everything including sin. That’s what they say they mean by claiming the Sovereignty of God. Maybe you aren’t a real Calvinist?
Philip Williams
Joshwa Bedford I see Pentecostal pastors turn to Calvinism when they decide they don’t want to quit sinning. Let’s just take someone like Jimmy Swaggart as an example.
Pentecostals once believed in Holiness and rejected that hypocrisy.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams I would disapprove it very carefully Now how about you?
Philip Williams
Troy Day Calvinists with their license to sin are current day Nicolatians.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams if SO the church must go to Heaven just like John did in Revelation amid all Nicolatians
Philip Williams
Troy Day very good point. The church will go to Heaven when Heaven comes to earth. That is the so-called rapture!