John Kissinger [08/06/2015 11:50 AM]
I dont understand – there’s some confusion of terminology going on in this blog post. “Worshipping [sic] like charismatics” doesnt make you a true Pentecostal (especially when missing sanctification)
William DeArteaga [08/06/2015 11:51 AM]
Hey, give some slack. God does not demand perfect theology for people to experience the gifts of the Spirit.
John Kissinger [08/06/2015 11:58 AM]
sure – we can go that rout for the sake of peace but if honest the post is a tear jerking offspring of pope’s 2017 invitation to Charismatics; may be we just need to hear Sarah Bessey and her personal testimony
Orlando Castellanos [08/06/2015 3:07 PM]
John Kissinger [08/06/2015 3:11 PM]
Orlando Castellanos to what? the experience described in the old Pentecostal church has very little to do with the experience in today’s mega churches. There’s a number of major theological and tradition discrepancies in the article Alan N Carla Smith Charles Page can talk about old time Pentecostal experience and how it is distorted in today’s pseudo charismatic church culture
Pentecostal Theology [08/07/2015 5:10 PM]
There are indeed several issues with this presentation.
(1) The text quotes research by Ed Stetzer who as a Baptist is an outsider to the Pentecostal movement. Thou his article picked up on Christianity Today last year, it was definitely written as an outsider of the Pentecostal tradition not taking under consideration the doctrinal and practical influence of non-Western Pentecostal churches and movements. One way or the other, his stats may be have been meant as a proof, but separated from the praxis of the Pentecostal experience are pretty much impracticable.
(2) The representation of Charisma magazine as “news” (put in quotes by the author or basically meaning no-news) shows not only mistrust in that Pentecostal media, but voids the previously mentioned stats by Stetzer, who is a big part in the “news” of the CharismaMag
(3) As it was already noted by some, the personal experience mentioned in the begging of the article is valuable as deeply Pentecostal. For this reason alone its later comparison with alternative charismatic churches seems out of place. They are two different things!
(4) Apart from similarity in size, a comparison between Saddleback and Hillsong is an overreach. They represent two completely different paradigms for ministry coming from different (if not opposite) church traditions.
(5) More and more churches cannot worship AS charismatics if they do not uphold the Pentecostal/Charismatic experience (both personally and corporately). Without that experience, their worship may look or sound, but it does not feel and is essentially not Pentecostal.
(6) Finally, there’s a great and growing difference between Charistmatics and classical Pentecostals all around the world today, which is completely missed in the article. Hence, the call of this review for a more honest and objective approach when writing about our tradition.
In conclusion, a true post on any Pentecostal topic has to involve a deeper discussion with Pentecostal voices or it will remain outsiderish; which makes this brief review an invitation for an honest dialogue with Sarah Bessey Otherwise, while “corkscrewing back over and over again” (in the author’s own words) from amid other traditions, what’s really going on in Pentecostalism around the world may be missed…
John Kissinger [08/07/2015 8:36 PM]
oh wow mamma oh wow
William DeArteaga [08/07/2015 8:59 PM]
I believe the Holy Spirit is not as Pentecostal nor as critical as you are. That is the Spirit gives his presence to those communities that welcome Him without demanding the maturity and doctrines of classical Pentecostalism
Orlando Castellanos [08/08/2015 12:40 AM]
Pseudo carismáticos seria actuar en el automatismo sin la efusión del El Espíritu Santo. Respeto al conocimiento de la sagrada escritura como institución y conocimiento individualmente son dos posiciones muy diferentes. A que algunas instituciones tradicionales están conscientes de su distancia doctrinal con las sagradas escrituras; hacen lo posible de apologetizar su puntos doctrinales o reformar progresivamente sus doctrinas; con la praxis del El Espíritu Santo en su pastoral. Pero en lo micro cada individuo carismático no importando el nombre de su denominación progresivamente con la ayuda de LA PALABRA Y EL ESPÍRITU SANTO llega estar consciente de este desafió. Y comienza buscar doctrinas mas relacionadas con la BIBLIA y en relación con los deseos de su vida en el espíritu. Pues esto tiene su escala según nuestro Senor Jesucristo , unos dan 30, 60 , 100% ,..Mt 13.8 Que para entender la pneumatologia es necesario analizar lo desde el génesis hasta el presente no desde manifestaciones pentecostales en la historia de la Iglesia solamente. No olvidemos que ACT 2 se dio en un periodo que la Iglesia no tenia libros de teologia sistemática o dogmas o tradiciones denominacionales. Que Dios es misionero de su propia teología que es para todos . El divino consolador del El Espíritu Santo nunca contradice la DOCTRINA de la biblia y mucho menos la del MAESTRO JESUCRISTO. El objetivo del El Espíritu Santo es llevanos a la VERDAD “La Palabra de Dios” no solamente hablar en nuevas lenguas. Su hermano en Cristo. Orlando Castellanos..
John Kissinger [08/08/2015 6:15 PM]
Rick Wadholm Jr Pentecostal and Charismatics – are they one and the same?
Rick Wadholm Jr [08/08/2015 6:16 PM]
John Kissinger [08/09/2015 8:03 AM]
this article seems to mix them up a bit
John Kissinger [08/09/2015 8:05 AM]
William DeArteaga I think we are just about to learn how critical the Holy Spirit is can the judgment day! If Christ will tell miracle workers He never knew them, we can only imagine…