| Diana Kay Miller Sheek |
It limits for the person with the unbelief. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
It did for Israel,Psalms 78:40-41How oft did they provoke him in the wilderness, and grieve him in the desert! Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.2 Chronicles 20:20And they rose early in the morning, and went forth into the wilderness of Tekoa: and as they went forth, Jehoshaphat stood and said, Hear me, O Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem; Believe in the Lord your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper. |
| Walter PolasikWalter |
Tim Crow: At the outset of considering such a question we should first keep in mind that God IS sovereign. God does what He wants to, when He wants to, how He wants to . . .because He’s GOD. On the pages of the Bible there are all too many instances where God did the miraculous, where He intervened, not in response to (say, Israel’s) faith but sometimes very much IN SPITE of it. In Mark 2:1-5 Jesus didn’t heal the paralytic because of HIS (the paralytic’s) faith but because of the faith if his friends who brought him. Similarly, when Jesus was teaching in the synagogue and provided an object-lesson in God’s love to the Pharisees there gathered by healing the man with the withered hand, He didn’t ask if the man had faith to be healed or not (as He did with some). (Matthew 12:10) He just healed him. . . . |
| Lawrence Boylen |
All depends on the goodness of the heart, not a belief. Lets not forget Catholic Inquisition. |
| Walter PolasikWalter |
Lawrence Boylen: So, according to Jeremiah 17:9, are our hearts naturally good? 😎 |
| Lawrence Boylen |
Quotes…I don’t need them |
| Walter PolasikWalter |
But then there are those times (equally numerous) when Jesus DID ask people if they had faith in Him or, after a request was made He would say, “According to your faith be it unto you”. To the woman with the issue of blood He replied, “Thy faith has made thee whole.” And, conversely, not a few times He would upbraid His disciples for their lack of faith or “little faith”. Hmmm. |
| Melvin Harter |
Yes |
| Louise Cummings |
I had it on I tunes listening to the Prophecy about Trump. It piped off. |
| Joseph D. Absher |
https://www.cpnshows.com/…/507bbef32a69d9c72056161d6ff0…I think this is your link |
| Louise Cummings |
Great. We will be praying and watching. God Bless you. |
| Louise Cummings |
How can I get it back. |
| Louise Cummings |
Thank you. I just heard it. Thank you so much for helping. |
| A.J. Bible |
“And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.” Matthew 13:58 |
| TimnJanay Richards |
This is what I was thinking when I read the question at hand |
| Tendo Steven |
Yes |
| Tim Crow |
Walter Polasik Does God IS sovereign mean our unbelief does affect Him at all? What does your Bible say about it? |
| Walter PolasikWalter |
Tim Crow: It means God looks at our hearts and responds accordingly. (Ps. 18:26 Look it up). 😎 |
| Joseph D. Absher |
Going to have to follow this one. The Pentecostals maybe willing to stand for this one. The universalist have already piped up. Put me with Dr. Harter on this one.Yes. God is limited by unbelief. And also ignorance of his holy Bible. And not just the ignorance but the wilful ignorance. “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee…” – Hosea 4:6aHaving said that God is very kind and you may get something by his gifts and the prayers of others but at some point you must come to God yourself, bow down, and give him.your heart and soul.and life and obey Him by faith in Jesus Christ |
| Joseph D. Absher |
If God did what ever he wanted all men would be saved. But he is limited in that he will not save unrepentant proud rebellious men. Men that hoard their sins and deal lightly with God’s mercy and grace and willingness to forgive and ignore the many warnings and severe threats and curses.Revelation 21:8 NKJV — “But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.†|
| Louise Cummings |
Amen. |
| Louise Cummings |
Amen again. Because that’s what the Bible said. |
| Danny Byrd |
Surely,.. unbelief is Evil.Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. |
| Louise Cummings |
Amen. You must believe. |
| Danny Byrd |
Scotty Searan the context of the scripture was indeed about healing but,.. nevertheless it states an unbelieving heart is Evil!In which I was making my point. The original post asked the question? “Does unbelief limit the works of God?†I believe so,.. that is why Satan tries to deceive us all so diligently. I stand by what I said.God bless you all,..âœï¸ðŸ”¥ðŸ”¥ðŸ”¥ðŸ™‹ðŸ»â€â™‚ï¸ |
| Louise Cummings |
Yes. God can do anything. But if you don’t believe He can do it. Then He doesn’t do It in unbelief. He told us in His Word. We must believe. He said in one place in the Bible. He couldn’t do many wonderful works , because of their unbelief. I didn’t look up where it’s found. But I will if you didn’t know that was in the Bible. |
| Louise Cummings |
Healing is just as real as it has always been. The Bible said Jesus Christ is the same Yesterday, Today. , And Forever. And He changes not. That means if he healed centuries ago. He still heals today. Because He said His Word Never Changes. John 1:1 Says in the beginning was The Word. And the Word was with God. And The Word Was God. So that means God is the same as He has always been. If He ever healed. And we know He did. It means He Still heals today. Because He Never Changes. |
| A.J. Bible |
I know an example where God is limited by doubt everytime- Salvation. Mark 16:16, Romans 10:9. |
| A.J. Bible |
Your comment doesn’t make sense |
| Scotty Searan |
Yes it can, if we pray and have no belief in what we are praying for, should we pray at all. Isn’t this just vain repetitions? |
| Tim Crow |
Bible is God really limited OR we limit ourselves of experiencing His favor when in doubt? |
| A.J. Bible |
God himself has limited himself to his Covenant Word – which requires Faith. |
| Joseph D. Absher |
Matthew 6:24 NKJV — “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.” |
| Tim Crow |
Gary Stacey So says KJV Other translations more properly translate PROVOKED which seems more appropriate |
| Tim Crow |
you are taking terms from capitalism and applying them to theism – how would that work? |
| Scotty Searan |
God won’t force himself on no one |
| Jeanette Elizondo |
YES !! |
| Joseph D. Absher |
The prayer of faith is not the only type of prayer. The prayer of faith does require a knowledge of the known will of God. Most often Bible verses. But the prayer of faith is not the only prayer. I will concede the very act of prayer to the unseen God does require some type of “faith” or believing. However faith for salvation that is in Jesus Christ is more than a general superstition or vague assent. Unbelief is the enemy of God and man and has robbed many a soul of God’s blessings in this life and eternal life in the next. |
| Joseph D. Absher |
Oftentimes folks just quit. prayer can be like a jackhammer. You can punch a hundred holes through the concrete and then you get that one and you know you got it. It’s loose. It’s yours by faith in Jesus Christ. You may have stick with it for awhile though. Keep a song in your heart. Call on Jesus. And give God the glory in everything! |
| Walter PolasikWalter |
As I was reading through the posts somehow I missed this one. I like your meme btw. It speaks of importunity with God: exactly what Jesus spoke of. I’ve recently been reading a bit from (the late) John Stott. Though regrettably a cessationist he has some good thoughts. In his book, “Basic Christianity” he writes of Jesus’ encouragement to seek and knock. Then he says, “But if you’re seeking and knocking half-heartedly, don’t be too surprised if you come up short”. God, Stott reminds us, wants us to seek Him DILIGENTLY, with ALL of our hearts (Jer. 29:13). We are further told that God is a rewarder of those that DILIGENTLY seek Him. (Heb. 11:6). |
| Joseph D. Absher |
Ok but there’s plenty in the Bible about prayer. why quote someone that didn’t believe it himself. I love you brother and I don’t mean any harm honest but sometimes I think we’re world’s apart. Thank’s for dropping the “I’m the boss” meme that orange thing with sunglasses. Reminds me of these kids I talk to called psycho and killer and shank and never did a day in jail. |
| Walter PolasikWalter |
|
| Walter PolasikWalter |
Huh?. . . ok. . . .um, . . . |
| Scotty Searan |
I took down my comments, since they didn’t go directly with the quote and I guess it caused confusion.But we used to sing a song WE’VE GOT THE POWER.We’ve Got The Power Give me your hand, let’s agree together That all of our enemies, will tumble at our feet For what we have bind on earth, shall be bound in Heaven At the name of Jesus, Satan has to flee We’ve got the power in the name of Jesus We’ve got the power in the name of the Lord Though Satan rages, we cannot be defeated We’ve got the power in the name of the Lord For many years now, Satan’s tried to stop us But the church of Jesus, is still alive And like a might army, we keep marching onward Winning every battle, with the Lord by our sideDO WE REALLY BELIEVE WE’VE GOT THE POWER.https://youtu.be/hyxKEkj-CUE |
| Louise Cummings |
Very good. |
| Tim Crow |
About power, Scotty Searan I keep on mentioning when talking to Pope Bible and other younguns with the group Some of this younger preacher fellwers operate under the Holy Ghost like it’s nothing. It is like playing with dynamite power. God can explode any given time. How are you handling the power given to you through the Baptism? Cause ministry can blow up on you any given time. Dynamite power that is |
| Scotty Searan |
That’s is why I love the spontaneity of the services of bygone years. You may start the service, but you didn’t know when the Holy Ghost. esd gonna show up and change the direction.Our churches services in many churches are so planned and rehearsed there is no place for the Holy Ghost to move, because we must do our entertainment. I am not only talking about music. A lot of ministers are no longer preachers but entertainers. No wonder there is unbelief in the curch. |
| Walter PolasikWalter |
Tim Crow, Scotty Searan: Speaking of how it used to be, I grew up in the Polish Pentecostal movement. Polish Pentecostals tended to be more level-headed in the way they approached the operation of the Spirit. Drama for sensationalism’s sake was never our thing. “Entertainment” Christianity was truly a foreign concept to us. Even, usually our services tended to be on the sedate side, though we had time for long worship & prayer. We didn’t believe that every Sunday had to be “Pentecost Sunday”. As a result, when the Spirit moved powerfully, we knew it was genuine. . . |
| Walter PolasikWalter |
Oh, of course we had SOME attention-seekers. In the Slavic (Russian/Ukrainian) circles we moved in there were also self-styled “prophets” of the Bob Jones/Mike Nicole (Kansas City Prophets) sort. But it was easier to tell the chaff from the wheat when you had a biblically-literate church. All the while the Charismania around us was growing, especially the American sort. But, again, in the late 80’s the Assemblies of God wasn’t given to sensational chicanery. The likes of Benny Hinn hadn’t popped up on the t.v. screen yet. So, I grew up also going to AG youth groups (when my dad planted the Polish mission church, we really didn’t have any). And I remember nights of worship, powerful preaching, seeing gifts manifest. AG Youth Camp in Carlisle, PA also left lasting memories. it was one of the few times I was involved in a prophetic manifestation, where I spoke to the healing of a fellow camper who had a cyst. I was led to speak in the first person (“This is what the Lord says: . . .”). I was 16 and quite overwhelmed by the whole experience. Nervous, ‘butterflies” in my stomach, except for the one, strong impelling thought: “Go to that small group. Put your hand on her [a sobbibng girl] shoulder”. That’s all. I’d never done anything like this before. I’ve seen preachers do it, and that night bro. Rusty Nelson was there. But why was God pulling on MY heart to do anything? I was nobody. And I was nervous. “And then what, Lord?” I asked, inside, still not sure if I should go or continue just pacing and praying. “GO!” So I went. As soon as I put my hand on her shoulder I overheard other teens praying, “Lord, give her peace. Let her know your presence.” And then a weird thing happened. I just knew what to say. “I Am here, be at peace.” But in a strong, commanding voice. And then THE ENTIRE AUDITORIUM (it was the gym center at the camp) just STOPPED. It was so quiet you just heard the lights and maybe a pin drop. The girl had stopped sobbing. She was resting. The others just stood or knelt there. Then I felt another forceful command. “Now leave.” I did. The peace and basking in God’s presence was palpable . . . |
| Walter PolasikWalter |
I never got any ironclad confirmation if her cyst went away. I knew if I had stayed to ask I’d have disobeyed God. I’d only had two other instances like that in my life besides that first one. I don’t even talk about them much because when it’s of God, it’s all about Him anyway. And I had no idea how to do these things anyway. It seemed as if God just let me know at the moment He wanted action, what to do. . . .and I didn’t throw any sport-coats around either. 😎 |
| Tim Crow |
Good thoughts Thank you all for the input |
| Nathaniel Rodriguez |
Duh… |
| Tim Crow |
Nathaniel Do you care to elaborate? |
| Nathaniel Rodriguez |
Without faith it’s impossible to please God and salvation requires faith because dead faith is not saving faith…God’s Providence is another story… |
| Jeffry Woolston |
Jesus went into a certain city and did not many Miracles there because of their unbelief. |
| Jeffry Woolston |
Matthew 13:58 |
| Scotty Searan |
But he did some and he wasn’t stopped. But we see basically none. |
| Tim Crow |
That’s true but what if NO one had any faith? Would that mean God cannot do absolutely anything. Probably not .He did plenty before there was anyone with faith around him. Hence the Trinity |
| Tim Crow |
Well, the economic view of the Trinity postulates that in the beginning God existed the all self-sufficient perochorea of the Trinity; meaning God was all-sufficient in the will of the Trinity without the need of any other being to have or not have faith |
| David Lewayne Porter |
God chose to set the guidelines on us asking in faith.He will move as He sees fit, but in some situations He sees fit only if we care enough to get involved through prayer asking. |
| Louise Cummings |
Yes God always moves as He sees fit. You have to look at the setting He is talking about.if you are talking about healing. The Bible says believe. Do you believe God can do it , or do you just want Him to do it. No faith or anything. Jesus said it is impossible to please God without faith. He tell us to believe. If you do not believe. There no need in waist I guess time. I wish I could tell you all the things God has done in our family. And in our life. I know there is a time God Says it’s our time to go. But until then. I believe God heals. You said He set guidelines on us asking in faith.but I find everything we ask is suppose to be in faith. Otherwise why even ask. I hope you got more faith in your wife , if you have than that. Because you start in the house to ask your wife something. And you say no this is not the setting or I’ll ask but I know she won’t do it. Have you ever tried loving her and act like she is more than a do it thing. Love her. Act like she’s someone. You might get more answers. That is the way God. Tell Him He is Special. I love You I’m so Thankful because of who You are. I love You because of Who You are. Not because healed me or because You can do anything. I Thank You for all these things You have don. But I love You because of Who You are. Try that instead of sitting around trying to think of something to say He can’t do it that way. Try mediating on God and read His Word. Tell Him every day You love Him. Get serious with God and He will get serious with you. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Oh, and I could tell you all the things He has done in my family, my life, my church, and I could continue on.Healing is only one aspect.So, what makes you think I have not or don’t meditate on God or read His Word?You don’t know how serious I am or have been with God.He has done more things on my behalf that man has called impossible than most people can believe.AndYetMaybe you missed James,James 4:2-3Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. There are more and specific reasons that we don’t just ring up God and get any/everything that we want and desire.Matthew 16:19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.Literal rendering “having already been bound and loosed in heaven”.So I stand by my reply and the nature in which I posted it.And my wife, really?If I did not have “confidence” in her she would have never became my wife.Good day Sister. |
| Scotty Searan |
David Lewayne Porter where did Jesus set guidelines on faith and asking for healing. I am not perfect. Yes I know we have taught this, but that does not make it scriptural.The Bible did say there are hindrances to us not getting our prayers answers. I am not WOF.I am tired of seeing people come service to service and a body of Saints not being able to touch God.I was raised by Christian Parents and especially a Daddy that preached and lived divine healing.I don’t have the faith my Dad had. And I do some things that my daddy wouldn’t do.But I can remember seeing my dad reading the word of God.I can remember being awaken many times at 530 in the morning when my daddy would be praying. I miss my daddy’s prayer.Daddy Believed what he preached.My Brother’s arm was broken in half when he was 4 years old and I was 7 by a bulldog of one of parishoners one Sunday afternoon.I was scared cause I went to go get daddy. My brother coming behind me, blood gushing out of his arm that was flopping.I don’t remember everything my daddy prayed that day, but these words still stick in my mind: GOD I HAVE PREACHED YOUR WORD, NOW IT’S TIME TO HONOR YOUR WORD. DON’T MAKE ME OUT OF A LIAR. PLEASE HEAL AMOS’ ARM IN THE NAME OF JESUS.God honored my dads prayer with a miracle. The bleeding stopped immediately, not gradually . The arm came back together immediately.. The teeth prints were still there. They kept the arm wrapped but they didn’t need to. My Brother got up when I got ready to go to school, the bandage was off and there was no teeth marks either they were gone.That’s the kind of faith that I was raised up with. Daddy didn’t pray for God to give him a better house or a better car or other luxuries. He just asked and believed God to meet his needs. AND GOD NEVER FAILED HIM.I could tell you some more. I never had no medicine till I was in my 20’s when I took the medicine.Daddy wouldn’t even allow us to use a cough drop. My daddy believed God. |
| Louise Cummings |
I sorry David Lewayne. Porter. I’m very sorry. I was out of order putting some things in the way that I did. I didn’t mean harm. I meant to be saying it in a way that it is always in order to ask in faith. I know I didn’t use Wisdom in how I put it. And I apologize. I should give things a thought before I write. And to your wife I apologize. I should have used something else other than than that which is close to you. I just thought you was doubting faith other than certain ways. I don’t know what to do other than say I’m sorry. I did put it to sting. I hope you won’t lose confidence in me. And it wasn’t that I didn’t have confidence in you. I just felt sometimes that you were trying to make the Word less than what it was. I’m sorry for judging. It wrong to judge. I’ll ask God to forgive me for judging. I ask you also to forgive me. I sure wish I could start this all over. But all I can say to you and your wife. I wasn’t trying to put her on a spot. I just thought you could see what I meant more clearly if I used someone you loved. I knew you loved Jesus. But didn’t understand every way you explained it. Please forgive me and I’ll try to be more careful. |
| Scotty Searan |
Louise Cummings That was kind. Myself I come off hard also |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Scotty SearanI stopped reading your reply after the line where you did not understand my prior replies.I stated that “healing” was just one aspect.So why did you combine the two and where did you get that I was talking about healing “only” being limited by God’s guidelines?One ‘limitation’ is do we actually desire for Him to move.Here’s a couple for healing and deliverence (but not limited to only those)John 5:6When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?What did it take for the healing? And affirmative answer to Jesus’ question by acting upon His instruction..Mark 5:17And they began to pray him to depart out of their coasts.So What shut down the ministry of Jesus in the land of the Gadarenes at that time? Their fear, doubt, and unbelief/lack of faith.You asked where Jesus set guidelines,Go research the 37 miracles of Jesus listed in the four gospels.7 of which include devils/spirits24 of which include healings3 involving raising the deadExamine what He told them and taught in each situation.Look at Jesus’ teaching and explanations to His followers in private, and you will see common threads appear.I don’t have the space or time to do it for you here and now. |
| Louise Cummings |
I know all that. But that wasn’t on my mind. I just wasn’t thinking straight. And one of those tricks of the devil. I know you have Good Scriptures. And I’ve followed these Scriptures a long time. Some comments on some people’s thought I agree with. Some I don’t. But I truly didn’t mean that ugly. I thought it would show you that you could use faith anytime. I just had it all confused. I’m truly sorry. I didn’t mean to get off track like I did. I’ll try to understand the content of what they are saying from now on. If I’m off track or don’t agree they can do what you did. Write me. Because I don’t mean to offend. The Bible speaks of offending your brother. I sure don’t want that held against me. I should have looked stronger at what you were saying. I can’t remember now. I would have to read it again. But I have ask the Lord to forgive me I didn’t say it this way when I was repenting. But I’ll will say it now. Lord forgive me for offending my brother. I know that you read the Scriptures. I had no business putting it the way I did. And I’m so sorry. |
| Louise Cummings |
Not meaning to sting. |
| Louise Cummings |
The Scriptures you are using are the same ones I would use to say you can use Faith to pray for anything anytime. I just wasn’t understanding it Lille that. I’m sorry. |
| Louise Cummings |
Thank you. |
| Scotty Searan |
Why I was focusing on healing, I see enough garbage on so called Christian TV and the prosperity message.I have read, study all of these incidents. But I have a burning, a longing to have what the early church had.You have some good points and they are legitimate points, but it puts us under New Testamanical legaslism, if that is correct phrase.Hear is the question, when it seems that all has been done right, why are we not seeing people delivered from sickness and bondages iinstantly today.Our church is small 30 to 40 people.We have a praying church, but every adult in our church has some kind of sickness or diseases in their body including our pastor and myself.I filled in for adult Sunday School class. The Sunday School lesson on Josiah. But the one in the class asked about healing when I got to the part where Josiah turned neither to the left or right.but obeyed God and not only tore down the groove and the images, he got rid of the high places. I listen to a charter member of our church which was started in 1970 tell how that God used him to pray for people and they got healed instantly by him laying his hands on them. He is 88 years old. I asked a point blank question. Why are we not seeing it now? He rubbed his head. This man is 25 years older than me, the oldest church church member. I urges him on.”I don’t want to be attacked” was his reply, but I urged him on.”Brother Scotty, this church is too worldly and they are leaning to the arm of the flesh not to God.”The people in that church had seen skin cancers, not dry up, but fall off in the floor. One man had lung cancer and had taken his last chemo treatment and the doctors told him he had less than 30 days to live. Nothing else. He came in one sunday Morning and actually lay down in the next to the back pew on the right side because he was so weak. The church went back to him and prayed and God raised him up and he was back at work in less than week and is still alive. That was 10 years ago.After the elderly gentleman said what he did. A lady said the way the church was back then was legalism and we did not have to do those things. But one of the church deacons looked at the lady and replied: “Our church is too worldly, I am too worldly and God has been talking about it to me. If it takes legalism to get the power back, I am all for it. Because it is gonna hurt me to lay down some of the things the Holy Spirit is speaking to me about.”The lady said: “If this church preaches legalism I will go somewhere else.”By this time I was weeping and I was fixing to close the class and go to morning worship. The Pastor came down the hall out of His Study. “Scotty I heard you talking about healing and the others sharing. My message today and probably tonight will be from Matthew 10. Bro. Scotty you and I have not talked but this confirms what God is speaking to me. I, along with Bro. Scotty am not satisfied with why we are sick and people not getting delivered as they should.”I am sure our church is not the only one like this. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Scotty SearanYou asked why we don’t see it instantaneously like in the Bible and like it used to be.”First, HALLELUJAH!I believe you and your church should listen to your senior member.Hey, you, and your church got their answer. Got their answer 10 years ago! Hallelujah!Personally brother you need to ask the Spirit to take you back 10 years, help you remember how you were led by the spirit in that situation, why you did what you did, what the spirit was speaking to you and directing you, and then just let that baked within your spirit. It’s not trying to put it in a form and fashion it is figuring out how you were used by God in that moment personally individually without legalism following him as directed in that one current individual situation.Legalism is not legalism if it is a genuine personal conviction. Let me repeat that, legalism is not legalism if it is a genuine personal conviction. Everyone is not going to live it the same. What the sister may consider legalism others genuinely do in Devotion to God.Just a simple term legalism shows that people are willing to do it their way and not follow God there are some things we need to lay down that has nothing to do with legalism it has everything to do with obeying God. Jesus said if you abide in me and my word abides in you you shall ask what you will and it shall be done. But if we are following Jesus Through what we consider us and more importantly others to be legalistic, then the question not only begs to be asked and answered but the question demands to be asked and answered are we following and doing what we want or are we following and doing what God wants.Now go back to me asking you to ask the spirit to take you back to that moment and examine you functioning with, in, by, and through Holy Spirit.Each situation is different. We have to be led every moment every day every situation by Holy Spirit. If we don’t, then it is legalism it is a form it is a fashion and we missed the main thing God is trying to do and that’s have a daily living breathing walking working relationship with us. It’s about relationship.The sister and trying to hold on to what she considers her freedom is jeopardizing her very relationship with Jesus.Now, there are going to be sicknesses among Christians in the body, the question is why? For the very reason I pointed out the gentleman at the gate beautiful because without sicknesses who needs the gifts of healing. Who needs the prayer faith. there are two main questions that need to be addressed,1) what is God purpose for this individual situation and person right here, right now?2) am I prepared to do that, am I willing to do that, am I going to allow him to use me to work his will?If those two questions are not addressed first, and hopefully before we even find ourselves in the situations, then nothing’s going to be accomplished for God.Question for you, have you ever prayed for someone they got healed and then they repented and got saved? Another question, have you ever told someone they had sent in their lives they needed to be saved they prayed and got saved, and then God healed them? it is basically the same situation just happening in a different order according to how God knows that person will respond to conviction over sin and a desire to be healed.Both of those situations accomplished the same thing but in a differing way/order.Personally I have done both.I could say the same thing about praying for people to receive the baptism of the holy spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. So I’m having almost instantaneously, others take a while maybe days weeks months years. There are some I can talk to and in less than 2 minutes will be speaking in an unknown tongue. But I do not give that to minute talk to everyone because I deserve everyone will not receive it.Are we doing like Jesus did. Almost none of the healings an answered prayer in the gospels that Jesus ministered himself happened the same way. Think about that hardly any happened the same way. So if Jesus was functioning differently in almost every situation what makes us think we are. Now I’m not saying the set guidelines God has given us in scripture is going to make us function robotically the same way every time no. I’m actually saying the exact opposite following God’s guidelines are going to make us sensitive to him to where we do what he wants each and every time not what we want. That includes if the sister you discussed has to in a situation or to seem to be a little bit logistic and legalistic. enclosing think about this one the syrophoenician woman came asking Jesus to heal her daughter. Look at Jesus’s First Response…. Continuing later |
| Louise Cummings |
Scotty Searan thank you Scotty Searan. It was the right thing for me to do. |
| Scotty Searan |
David Lewayne Porter I was not attending that church at that time. I will answer the questions later. |
| Tim Crow |
The synergy view of God man and faith is a dangerous one. Our synergetic participation may or may not be called upon by God not to change God, who doesnt change, neither to allow or disallow Him to act; our participation is called so we may change to accept what God has already acted upon. It is only there our faith matters – to usLets take for example soteriology. In what way does man allow or disallow God to save? Or limit Him in any way – noneNow then, we are given the choice to accept something he has already done, but this is not to say that we allow God to save us. The cross is all saving for all. But the cross is only received by those who have faith. This in no way affects God or his salvific work. On the contrary it only affirms it. Even if a person have no faith and rejects salvation this act of lack of faith still affirms that God is all powerful in everything |
| Scotty Searan |
Amen |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Mark 6:5-6And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching. |
| Scotty Searan |
It didn’t stop him completely. It was probably because they would not bring the sick to him |
| David Lewayne Porter |
The original post asked if it limited Him,Not if it stopped Him.I stand by my post(s). |
| Scotty Searan |
Gary Stacey He does work in response to faith. In sickness, I believe it is response to the people who are praying for the sick That it is the way I interpret the scriptures. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Scotty SearanWhat do you do withJames 5:14-15Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.There is a point here that most people miss.What is your take on this? |
| Scotty Searan |
The elders who are praying and anointing with oil are praying the prayer of faith, not sick, because those that are sick, sometimes may be so sick they don’t have adequate, some could be unconscious. But in this case the man did call, but it is not always the sick person calling as in the case of the centurion.But here’s another thing that I believe it is the prayers of the elders.The Bible does say that we regard iniquity in our heart that he won’t hear us. But in this the man is prayed for by the elders who have no inquiry unforhiven in their heart and the prayer of faith of the elders saves and heals the sick at the same and his sins are forgiven him and God rains him up.Something we don’t teach too much is about the issue of forgiving sins as mentioned in John 20:23 which appears to me that James believed and understood that saying of Jesus Christ and they acted on it.A long explanation but this is my beliefI have studied the healings and miracles of Jesus. Yes their is teaching, preaching everywhere that Jesus went and everywhere he went he would heal all that was brought to him, those with little or inadequate faith, all they had to do was bring them to him. No it doesn’t give each account of how he ministered to each one of them, but he laid hands on them and they were healed as Mark 16 say we shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. It doesn’t say if they have faith or believe which I believe if a person asks another to pray that is believe The one laying hands on is the one who should pray the prayer of faith.Laying on of hands has great significance in the Bible one being imparting.I an gonna stop here |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Scotty SearanOne of the principals of answered prayer is yes “personal desire” you covered it even though there was some wavering in your discussion.* The sick was the one to initiate the answer for the prayer by calling for the elders.It shows1) The desire to be healed, the desire for prayer on a personal level2) Unity of the body of Christ A ) is there any sick ‘Among You’B ) where 2 agree touching anything ‘on earth’, (Notice the verse before that one showcases another element).3) it shows that faith must be present by all that are intimately involved in the healing. (Additional reference – Remember the reference of the man at the gate called Beautiful – he had asked for ‘something’ when addressed by Peter and John he expected ‘something’).Jesus took one man outside of the city for prayer.Jesus laid hands on him two times. (Interesting, unless you realize why).(As you said, it is not always the sick person calling) it is not always the same,But it seems this tread is trying to make the answered prayers the same and they are not.It also appears the thread keeps coming back to healing. That is fine. But I am addressing all answered and unanswered prayer.(Paul with the Lord’s table tells us why we have some of the sick among our ranks).There are ‘still’ guidelines established by God that must be followed, if we examine why each and every healing occured in the manner in which it did.*note, yes Jesus healed their sick (all their sick) In Certain Places. In other places He healed few, and still in others He did nothing because they would not even receive Him.Some He did with them believing, some He did with some believing and others not, some He did just to prove who had sent Him inspite of their doubting. A few points here:*# the main point in all of this in every individual situation#*a ) Jesus was totally surrendered to the will of The Father and only the will of the Father. He said He did nothing except He received it of the Father. John 8:28, John 15:15, John 5:30- in short, are we seeking His will in every case or are we going it our way?b ) are we totally submitted to the Father as Jesus was/is? Even to the point of death when we have done nothing to deserve it?Continuing…4) the Centurion.Great one, explains itself.Oh how great faith! (Jesus said that Himself).And it is explained by the centurion himself.It deals with authority and our realm of influence.- Remember the ruler that sent others on his behalf?It goes back to desire and systems of authority (Luke 7 started at verse 1).To further show this; several parents requested healing for their children, why? Because the children were in their house and under the parents’ authority. The parents had the say-so.In calling for the elders the sick are not only showing unity and agreement but they are coming under the authority of the church leadership as is given to us other places in scripture.(Your testimony – why did God answer your brothers healing prayer that was given by your father a pastor?You and your brother were running to your covering, your father expecting your Father to make it better, fix it, get help.And glory to God he did!5) those who are not able to ask for help or prayerLegion, there has been much debate over if the man or legion ran to Jesus (selah).Pause for time to go read it slowly.(Please notice the way the legion addresses Jesus initially in both of the gospels’ accounts).Comes back to authority.Those who are unable.Who gave us the desire, compassion to get involved with them in their helpless state? Jesus,.Who gave us the command to go? Jesus,.Who gave us the right and authority? Jesus,.BUT it is Only PARTIALLY hinged on authority. That is only one reason, as you pulled in possibly hidden iniquity. You see you know it is not as simple as just believing and asking. – yet you keep circling around to it.Why did it say elders and not just anyone?Just think about that.(What were the qualifications for elders given elsewhere in scripture?).Are leader also told not to lay hands suddenly on anyman?They are to discern the person and situation first.Contining…6) the man at the gate beautiful – how many times did Jesus pass him by without healing him during the 3-1/2 year earthly ministry?Why?Timing. Jesus knowing there would be a new fledgling church that needed a public notable healing to help it get started.So then some times it is simple timing.I will stop for now.I will post another issue with our healing beliefs in another reply after this has had time to bake. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
It also has to deal with “abiding”.Do we abide in Him and He/His Word abide in us?Or do we visit and drop up from time to time.Is He our Lord and The Spirit has Lordship, or do we try and control the experience at that time? |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Gary StaceyToGetUsInvolved and to be actively working with Him.Sending labourers into the Harvest. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Gary StaceyHe mentioned it, He mentioned it.But in meaning itdid you forget why He created mankind in the beginning anyway.For fellowship and relationship.God can do anything on His own,Yet it designed it to include us.(He could have just ed used the angels, yet He desired us). |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Gary StaceyI don’t believe in predestined souls.I do believe in freewill total encompassed by God’s exhaustive foreknowledge.Your why questions summed up in on scripture….,,,,Romans 10:11-15For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!Us working His pre known plan.Freewill and exhaustive foreknowledge.Paul said this,Colossians 4:3-4Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds: That I may make it manifest, as I ought to speak.? Was it God’s will for Paul to witness?Was it God’s will for people to be converted? Go see what God told Ananias He would show Paul concerning his calling (and this was a head of time).So why did Paul want believers praying in advance for God to do what God wanted to do anyway?Relationship. Working with us, in us, through us.Jesus sent us to do the Father’s will. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Gary StaceyI do feel so sorry for those who can’t handle God’s foreknowledge being exhaustive to the degree that He already knew us so well that He knew what we would do in each and every situation and has it already worked into His plan.That is freewill included within God’s foreknowledge and yet without forcing us to make those choices as predestination, as man considers predestination.It adds up perfectly to those who understand both (hand in hand).It is notEither, orBut both. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Gary StaceyWho said I feel sorry for you, in particular that is.My prayers you will have each time God brings you across my thoughts. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Scotty SearanContinuing my selah from yesterday and answered prayers….(Healing in particular).Now if answered prayers and healing was as simple as praying and believing; and if that was to each of us individually,what do we do with the 1 Cor 12 “manifestation of the Spirit given as He sees fit”?; which includes,Gift”s” of healing?Notice that those gift”s” are more than one and are differing manifested healing.So then maybe it is as simple as the wrong person with the wrong enabling of Holy Spirit being involved in the situation.As far as prayers in general and not just prayers for healing we also must examine why the Spirit also gives to the body diversities of “gifts”, “administrations”, “operations”, and “manifestations”.They are not all the same. Nor are we each as individual believers callings and offices the same.There is a distinct anointing of faith listed here – differing from the “fruit” of faith. It is also differing from simple faith given to each believer.That anointing is differing from “working of miracles”.Many of these prayers are considered not only a prayer or need, but are actually miracles in the making.I have and do know people who can pray for healing and they are always answered. “Yet they will not pray over everyone, they pray only for those they discern are “receptive”.I know those that can pray for other ‘categories – if you will’ and they are always answered. Yet they do not just cast pearl before swine. But I know no one that gets every prayer over everything or circumstance answered the way they want, when they want it.There are signs and there are wonders. Just as there are differing Spiritual enablings. Not all are the same. We need to know the difference by knowing the One who enables us.As I said, God has set guidelines in place Himself.BlessingsSelah. |
| Scotty Searan |
I appreciate your comments and I believe they are sincere and I am not saying they are wrong. But these are the same things I have heard down through the years.I am not losing my focus.Maybe I have tunnel vision. But am I asking for something that never actually happened? Did Jesus Christ only prayed for certain ones. But the ones that he prayed for got healed. Same thing about the disciples did they pray only for certain ones yet all they prayed for was healed.Is this bore out in the scripture.Yes I like your last sentence know no one that gets every prayer answered over every circumstance But I am not focusing on every circumstance. I am focusing on healing in my discussion, though Jesus Christ had the power over all circumstances if need be, yet Jesus Christ forced himself on no one Yet if anyone was brought or came to him he healed or delivered them.Yet he also said we would have the same power and do greater things.Yet we are satisfied with a partial or scattered healing or deliverance of peopleHealing and deliverance are always good.Yes I do believe in the sovereignty of God and his attributes But really there is no scripture explaining the sovernity of God being used to healing.I am focused on healing and healing is a need not a want.Philippians 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.Is this verse absolutely true? |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Scotty SearanSo what do you do with ‘my grace is sufficient’?That must figure into your theology as well.What do you do with the Spirit distributing “gifts of healing” to differing ones as He sees fit?Don’t forget,The Spirit was given to Jesus without measure.Yet all of us have been given a measure because we are a body “individuals making up the whole”.Did Jesus heal everyone everywhere?What about all the others laying at the pool in John 5?Why were they not addressed and ministered to?Greater works than Jesus did, yes. But what was the preceeding condition in that verse? Believing on Him.Same as the fig tree in Mark 11 “have faith ‘in God’ “.’Look at the fact that the tree was expected to produce fruit “out of season”. Think about that.Why does God expect fruit to be produced out of season? We would say the issue is Him in that case. But He knows what we are capable of and when.Unconditional unwavering faith in God, in the source, not in the circumstance; that is what it is going to take.The syrophoenician woman she came to Jesus; she asked for a healing for her daughter. Notice Jesus Jesus’ first response to her, His first response. It seemed legalistic, it seems rough and abrasive. He told her He was sent only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. He said it wasn’t meat to give the children’s bread to dogs. Yet the woman continued and said of a truth even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the master’s table. She understood Jesus. She understood Him, His Grace, His Mercy, and the fact that even in light of His Word His heart would allow the request to be done anyway.Just think about that in light of original answer from Jesus. Notice He also said to let the ‘Children be filled first’ Mark 7:27. So are we Children? Do we realize we are His children?Do we have that child-like faith?Faith as not in all of Israel, and she left with her answered request.Just some thoughts as I try to help.(I love the kindred Spirit).I too prayed for a woman that died during service. God raised Her up.Gave her 2 more years.She was also sitting on the right side of the sanctuary, third or fourth pew from the rear, 1/3 way to the altar.In the mist of all the doubting church folk.BUT GOD!Hallelujah! |
| Louise Cummings |
I enjoyed hearing what God had done for you and your family and Church. And your Reading The Word and mediating on His Word. I’m Thankful. Maybe I need more. Or I know I do. I enjoyed hearing about all the things of God in your life. And again forgive me. |
| Tim Crow |
Well, the economic view of the Trinity postulates that in the beginning God existed the all self-sufficient perochorea of the Trinity; meaning God was all-sufficient in the will of the Trinity without the need of any other being to have or not have faith at the same time lots of people within Pentecostal tradition entertain and truly believe and even force to submit God under the synergy view Mark 6:5-6 being only one of the passages wrongly understoodThat Jesus did not do any miracles among them did not affect the ability of God to do miracles at allit only affected their ability to receive miracle from God hence the economic view of the Trinity Pentecostal pastors must be trained to understandThat one does sees faith as a purchasing value of a miracle is entirely wrong and based on social egocentric economix But even in that view, if you do not have sufficient funds to exchange for goods does not affect the merchants ability to own the good or to be able to deliver the goodsBecause some do not have faith do NOT in any way affects Gods power that does not ever change or his ability to execute His power at His willIf the wrongful understanding of Mark 6:5-6 was true as believed and held by many Pentecostals THENif no city or no person had faith God would have never been able to perform a miracleSO NOT TRUEGod can due a miracle with or without anyones faith it is our faith that affects only our ability to receive the miracleand in absolutely no way possible affects God’s ability to deliver it |
| Scotty Searan |
Tim Crow I believe we are on the same page. What a word..In Psalms 66 David said if I regard iniquity in my heart you will not hear meBut over in James chapter 5 God said that the elders would pray over the sick one and if they have committed sin it will be forgiven them and God will raise him upBut the verse right below it says the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much the elders are the Righteous people and they get their prayers answered because they believe God not necessarily the one being prayed for the one being prayed for may have sin in their life or just baby a sinner all together but that effectual fervent prayer will overpower send and God will hear and heal and forgive then |
| Tim Crow |
No other way. Synergism is unjustified |
| A.J. Bible |
Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel. Psalm 78:41 |
| Joseph D. Absher |
Apples and oranges and pineapples.The good people “in his own country” couldn’t or wouldn’t accept Jesus Christ as Messiah and in doing so they couldn’t or wouldn’t receive the promises concerning his adminstration. However that did not hinder him from his main objective and that was redemption.I can see why theology is so unpopular as every paragraph needs a dictionary and every sentence begs a question add infinity. Meanwhile the altars go untended… |
| Tim Crow |
Well now erroneous Bible translations are of no use here. Psalm 78:41 translated properly says “grieved” They tempted and grieved God not limited Him. The passive qal may be translated as God limited Himself, but as used here in the active accusative cannot be translated as limited |
| Joseph D. Absher |
Thanks I needed that. Isn’t it common though among Pentecostals to believe God doesn’t have his way always. |
| Nathaniel Rodriguez |
As a Pentecostal I know that God is limitless *and His Hand is not shortened” but disobedience, lack of faith and all other sins block our path… |
| Tim Crow |
TRUE |
| Louise Cummings |
Tim Crow Amen. |
| Scotty Searan |
True. Yes God says this. But he still give the answer to our need if he so chooses. That is what mercy and grace is all about. |
| Scotty Searan |
Nathaniel Rodriguez it blocks our path from receiving not God giving. God can do a patch and go around the hindrances if he so chooses But if we’re not getting answers and our line is shorted out, we need to investigate and find the short and see why we did not get our petitions |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Grieved verses limited.Did God force the children of Israel to fulfill His plan to settle the Promise land directly from Egypt?Ps 78, Ps 95, Heb 3, 4, & 10, So then God limited the revealing of Himself and withheld His desire and plan.I love when the New Testament explains the Old. |
| Louise Cummings |
I know we can limit God in unbelief. But God can’t be limited except through unbelief or rebellion. Sometimes God has to teach us a lesson. |
| Louise Cummings |
Or sin. He doesn’t stay where sin is. He will purge us and cleanse us and He will receive us. Is the way I feel. |
| Tim Crow |
Scotty Searan It is very simple – God’s grace would have not been nothing special if it could be blocked by human unbelief. Problem here is many think that because God loves and draws to Himself their free will is not given a choice. Such interpreters could not be more wrong Another translation says They turned again and tempted God, and provoked the Holy One of Israel. NASB says painedPsalm 78:41 HEB: ×•Ö¼×§Ö°×“Ö–×•Ö¹×©× ×™Ö´×©Ö°×‚×¨Ö¸×ֵ֣ל הִתְווּ׃ NAS: God, And pained the Holy OneKJV: God, and limited the Holy OneINT: the Holy of Israel and painedThe original Hebrew word translated “limited” is ‎taawaah‎and occurs only three times in the Scriptures; in I Samuel 21:13 it is rendered “scratched” (or, “made marks”); in Ezekiel 9:4 it is rendered “set,” that is, “set a mark”; and in Psalm 78:41 it is rendered “limited.” The implication of the word is that of making a mark for any purpose; also it implies to delineate, to scrawl, or to set a mark for a limit or boundary. In this context it is applied to God—as if, in estimating His character or His power, they set limits or bounds on it, similar to the way the property of a farm or a house’s lot in a city is marked to determine the boundaries. They hedged God in to prevent Him, in their minds, from intervening on their behalf. This had the negative effect, as well of blocking the blessings that He was ready and willing to offer and give.In their opinions they set a limit to the power of God, beyond which they believed He could not act; or, in other words, His power was defined and restricted, so that beyond a certain point He could not aid them or interfere in their activities, their desires, and their proclivities. Yes, again and again they tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel. In a response GOD showed them they just cant do that |
| Joseph D. Absher |
God who is a Spirit was hurt? |
| Tim Crow |
well just the way the hebrew goes – means also grieved but not limited |
| Joseph D. Absher |
And the anger part that’s just a hebrewism? |
| Tim Crow |
No, why? |
| Joseph D. Absher |
Just trying to think things through. Seems like you might be overcomplicating it. His over all plan is to redeem men. Of course some choose sin and willfully reject Jesus Christ. So whether it’s Greek or Hebrew or Spanish, “…he that believeth not shall be damned.” |
| Tim Crow |
Remember how Jonah tried to limit Hod and did not work too good for him? |
| Joseph D. Absher |
He didn’t try to limit God. He knew God would have his way. He just wanted to raise a stink about it for the sponsors back home |
| Joseph D. Absher |
That’s funny right there lol |
| Tim Crow |
He run away on a ship from preaching. He knew if he preached God would have saved the city. He figured if he doesnt preach God will destroy the city which was enemy of Ninevah |
| Joseph D. Absher |
I think in the story of Jonah we have God’s determination to warn and save men. |
| Scotty Searan |
Joseph D. Absher If Jonah had not obeyed God. God would have gotten the message through. Jonah was used in God’s plan in three ways.I. Showing what will happen if you don’t do what God Tells you2. As example of Jesus Christ being in the grave for three days.3. Repenting though reluctantly and Nineveh repented, especially after hearing the story of Jonah being in the whale. Why did I say that. Read Jonah 4:1.I believe Jonah preached more in word only than faith. I believe God allowed faith to grow in the kings heart to override Jonah’s unbelief. |
| Joseph D. Absher |
With all due respect Mr Scotty SearanI think Jonah repentance was sincere. If you read his prayer in the belly of the fish it seems pretty clear. Maybe we’ve gone to far on a simple question. With statements like “if Jonah had not obeyed” we may to have gone over to supposing… |
| Scotty Searan |
I am just going by the flow that sometime you get while understanding and reading and Jonah 4:1-4, does this show as sincerity.Jonah 4:1-41 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.2 And he prayed unto the Lord, and said, I pray thee, O Lord, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.3 Therefore now, O Lord, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live.4 Then said the Lord, Doest thou well to be angry? |
| Gary Sawyer |
Good question. And I believe that it goes both ways depending on God’s will. (((( on one side I totally believe that if something is God’s perfect will, then nothing can stop it being a believer or unbeliever. ((( But I also believe that unbelief can hinder our faith and walk with God, and that too can effect how God blesses us. ((( I guess it’s complicated answer |
| Tim Crow |
Gary Sawyer Scotty Searan Joseph D. Absher When The Lord had purposed to save Ninevah anyway He was gonna save Ninevah anyway. No matter IF Jonah “helped” synergically or not. Not matter if Jonah disagreed or had or had not faith. It was going to happen. Jonah was not part of the salvific plan. He was simply the announcer of the plan not the master or the maker of the plan for the salvation of Ninevah |
| Scotty Searan |
That is what I trying to convey, because Jonah went through doing what he was told (lip service) but in his heart he did not want it to happen and was angry that it happen |
| Joseph D. Absher |
In all our theology let us not forget God uses men. Honest OR Not. God demands honesty, some men do not, but I think most men prefer it. |
| Scotty Searan |
Yes you are right look at the qualification for bishops and deacons |
| Tim Crow |
God uses man with mankind only God does not use man with angels per se God uses man but He dont have to Not using man does not stop God or His supreme will over the whole creation |
| Tim Crow |
What do you mean? |
| Ed Brewer |
No |
| Ed Brewer |
yes….just ‘no’ — the premise of the question presupposes the ability of the creature to control the creator |
| Ed Brewer |
Gary Stacey You’re assertion is based on a logical fallacy – God’s omnipotence is not subjugated to his omniscience or vice versa – to attribute such impulsive vicissitude to the ultimate unmoved mover is to diminish one transcendent attribute in favor of another – to even intimate the nuance of effected vacillation upon the sovereign almighty is to forget the lesson of Shinar’s plain from 4300 years ago concerning the comparative abilities of creature and creature. Bottom line….the reason people struggle with God’s ability to be both omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and a whole list of other ‘Omni’s’ is not that they don’t think He’s big enough – they suggest He’s not smart enough! He knows the answer to every question before it’s posited, and every thought of man is fully evident to His unlimited intellect. Our Hebrew brothers grasp this when they call Him the ‘self-existent’ one – He alone chooses, limits, and dictates by His own sovereign will. |
| Tim Crow |
The creator depending on the creation just like the idea of dynamic foreknowledge open theism are all non-sequitur Ricky |
| Nathaniel Rodriguez |
God wanted and was willing to save Sodom and Gomorrah yet it came down to the evil in mankind that made the decision… |
| William DeArteaga |
Yes, look at Jesus’ failed ministry in Nazareth. He was uanble to do great miracles because of their unbelief. |
| Scotty Searan |
I guess it is what account you read. Matthew says not many and Mark says no mighty work.But it was because they wouldn’t bring the people to him. He still healed the sick |
| Walter PolasikWalter |
William DeArteaga: Well, I don’t know about calling anything that Jesus did, “failed”. The passage DOES show that Jesus responds to our faith. But there were so many times when Jesus just healed and did miracles regardless of the faith of those around Him. (Look at, for instance John 11:14 ff. In this case Jesus said He was glad that He wasn’t with Lazarus earlier “so that ye may believe”). In this case Jesus’ healing wasn’t BECAUSE of faith but actually, to INSPIRE faith. I am not swayed by the arguments of “faith-healing” or “positive confession” preachers. There is more to God’s intervention in our lives than they put forward. I am also not enthused with your defense of Essek William Kenyon in your book. It is well known that the mind/science line of reasoning had been trending in the US since the time of Phineas Parkhurst Quimby and Mary Baker Eddy. That it should somehow make its’ way into the Church, which ought to know better than that either Jesus healed by “the laws of science” or that (to badly paraphrase Shakespeare) “thinking makes it so”. I was surprised to learn of the genesis of the “Faith Movement” because it wasn’t what I HAD learned as a growing Classical Pentecostal. Faith is not in faith but in Christ who is sovereign and actually commented on this. (Lk. 4:25-27). |
| Tim Crow |
well Joseph D. Absher Ninevah was destroyed after all https://news.nationalgeographic.com/…/160419-Islamic…/ |
| Joseph D. Absher |
It’s in the B. I. B. L. E. |
| Joseph D. Absher |
Thank you. but I already know it’s important to believe God’s word. And with some passion!”And he said, Open the window eastward. And he opened it. Then Elisha said, Shoot. And he shot. And he said, The arrow of the LORD’S deliverance, and the arrow of deliverance from Syria: for thou shalt smite the Syrians in Aphek, till thou have consumed them.And he said, Take the arrows. And he took them. And he said unto the king of Israel, Smite upon the ground. And he smote thrice, and stayed.And the man of God was wroth with him, and said, Thou shouldest have smitten five or six times; then hadst thou smitten Syria till thou hadst consumed it: whereas now thou shalt smite Syria but thrice.” – 2 Kings 13:17-19 |
| Leon Bible |
Of course unbelief limits God – Or else the whole world would be saved. 1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. “If you limit the promises, you limit your faith; and if you limit your faith, you limit the supply by limiting God to give according to your faith. You will get exactly what you have faith for. The principle of receiving is “According to your faith be it unto you†(Mt. 8:13; 9:29; Mk. 11:22-24; Jas. 1:5-9; Heb. 11:6). Finis J. Dake, God’s Plan for Man. |
| Louise Cummings |
Very good. The same if people doesn’t believe in the Catching Away , or Rapture. I can’t see how they could go leg they don’t believe in it. But I’m not the Judge. The Lord Knows. |
| Scotty Searan |
Louise Cummings It is not that people don’t believe in a Rapture, they don’t agree when the RAPTURE will happenI believe in a PreWrath Rapture, but I don’t believe in a Pretrib Rapture. But I still believe in a Rapture. I don’t believe that Jesus Christ could come at anytime.But I do believe I could go to meet Jesus at anytime through death, So I must be ready to die.Am I afraid of death? No, I am not. I live ready to die. Do I rush it? No, but I would not be disappointed if I died typing out this response. |
| Scotty Searan |
Leon Bible This sounds good on the surface. This is addressing healing only. Is there not a person who wants to be healed?Is there not a person who has claimed every healing scripture or promise of healing that has not been healed?They have done all they can, confessing with the lips, believing and etc. and they have not been healed. If Dake was right, you could claim and confess yourself into healing and that is not happening in most even WOF people’s lives. |
| Leon Bible |
Scotty Searan To answer your question NO there is “not a person who has claimed every healing scripture or promise of healing that has not been healed? They have done all they can, confessing with the lips, believing and etc. and they have not been healed.” NO one ever does what God says to do and God does NOT do what he said he would. For the Bible says “God is not a man, that he should lie.” Num 23:19 According to your statement God;s Word on Healing has no power (Psa 119:20)… Confessing (Rom 10:9-10) does not work as God said it did… and believing is powerless contraying to Mark 9:23. This can never be. To call God a liar is an offense against God in an effort to justify the failures of men. Finis Dake taught: “The responsibility of getting the benefits promised by God is up to you as an individual. If you fail to get what is for you do not blame God. Always clear Him of all wrong whatever you do. God does not fail men nor go back on His Word, so if you fail to get what God has promised be honest to acknowledge the source of your trouble as being from demons and from unbelief and failure on your part to conform to truth.”(God’s Plan for Man) |
| Walter PolasikWalter |
Leon Bible: Finis Dake was most likely speaking to having a biblically-grounded faith in God’s supernatural intervention in our every-day lives. I seriously doubt he was sporting E.W. Kenyon’s “positive confession” theology as later propounded by the likes of Kenneth Hagin and Charles Price. God does look for faith, TRUST in us, not PRESUMPTION. Also, as far as confessing goes, please use Rom. 10:9,10 as its writer intended: speaking about the confession of Christ as Lord, not the presumptuous confession of desired healing. And our soul may long for His judgments but that doesn’t mean He will HEAL according to our desires. That is the definition of the word “sovereign”. |
| Leon Bible |
Walter Polasik YES Dake did believe in positive confession. “In case of sickness, one must know that healing is for him and that God is His only help. He must turn to God with a whole heart and rebuke the disease and resist demons by faith in the name of Jesus Christ and His atonement. He must not tolerate sickness and disease in his body. He must claim healing and full deliverance and MAINTAIN THAT IT IS DONE AND IT WILL BE MANIFESTED.” Finis J. Dake, God’s Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 984. And as to EW Kenyon, Dake did glean from him quite a bit on his teaching on the Name of Jesus. |
| Walter PolasikWalter |
Leon Bible: Wow, that’s truly sad then. Are you a proponent of “Word of Faith” theology (as taught in Oklahoma, in Hagin’s enclave)? Such teachings did great damage to Pentecostalism and understandably drove other believers away from the benefits of Spirit Baptism and His gifts. It really was a “hijacking” of Pentecostalism that happened. I even discussed this issue with William DeArteaga, who, in his otherwise well-written book “Quenching the Spirit” he actually DEFENDS Kenyon. DeArteaga admits Kenyon borrowed lines of thought FROM THE MIND/SCIENCE cults, notably Phineas Parkhurst Quimby and Mary Baker Eddy, founder of “Christian Science”. As a cult-evangelist I know not a little about this. What a shame the cults infiltrated the Church! |
| Leon Bible |
Walter Polasik I am Word of Faith as Paul taught it: Romans 10:8 “…The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the WORD OF FAITH, which we preach;” Actually the Word of Faith message brought a powerful understanding to the Pentecostal movement. Most of the Pentecostal Faith Healers taught confession and claiming the promises of God by faith. I disagree that Kenyon borrowed from the Mind Science movement. If that were the case who did the Apostle Paul borrow from when he spoke of God: “calling those things which be not as though they were?” Rom 4:17 The fact that two groups may have what would seem to be similar beliefs does not prove that one borrowed from the other. The Mind Science movement believes in confession and PMA in a “universal mind.” Kenyon believes in confession and faith in GOD. While the mechanics may be similar the object of faith is completely different. So I am unashamedly Word of Faith as Paul and Jesus taught me to be. Remember it was Jesus who gave Paul the foundation of Romans 10:9-10 from Mark 11:23 “For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.” |
| Scotty Searan |
Leon Bible i am not calling God a LIAR. But we are lying when we say that we are not sick and that we are healed when we are not.You are lying when you say the person is accusing God of lying.Yes I believe this verse.Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.Unto in these verses means there is something ahead of them before you get righteousness or salvation.I have a Dakes Bible, But his positive confession is scripture twistingLeon Bible has God given you everything you asked for? If he didn’t was God a liar because he did grant your request.I have a sister-in-law who is WOF and worships Kenneth E. Hagin. Every time we turn around she tells us to use scripture to go around rebuking the devil, to build up a hedge. But yet she is constantly running to a doctor with health problems.I had enough of her telling us one day and I told her I had enough of the false teaching she propagating and what what was being espoused by the WOF movement. I told her before she told me and my wife to quit saying that we were sick, to quit complaining that she was sick and having to go to the doctor, because she did not practice what she talk. She didn’t walk the walk that she was talking.Has God given you perfect Health. Do you ever get sick and stay sick and not get well. Because if you believe as the WOF believes you will never get sick nor anything bad happen to you.I could go on. |
| Leon Bible |
Scotty Searan Well you could go on…. But it is very clear you do not understand faith or the Word of Faith movement. So I would suggest that you not call God a liar. It was JESUS who said: “For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.” Mark 11:23 SO what part of what Jesus said is a lie? Is it a lie that: If a person ask God for something promised in HIS Word and believes that he receives it and confesses that it is his by faith… What part of that is a lie? . |
| Walter PolasikWalter |
Leon Bible, I’ve read Scotty Searan’s post above, and I have to say that his point is valid. What I mentioned before, about the cults and specifically Christian Science applies to the case Scotty is talking about. Mary Baker Eddy preached “mind over matter”. I know you say you don’t preach the same thing. But the “PMA” you mentioned is the same attitude, the same expectation, the same presumption. Eddy wound up having her teeth extracted and taking morphine for the pain. This is the same woman who had claimed to have gotten healed from a slip injury earlier by reading a passage from the Gospel of Matthew. Now, I believe in divine healing. My father got delivered from alcoholism when he came to Christ and got healed of epilepsy when he received the Baptism. I myself got healed of a bad virus after an Assembly of God pastor anointed me with oil and laid hands on me. My dad was an AG pastor for 20 years and I had been involved in the ministry myself. The miracle of the man with the withered hand (Matt. 12:10-13) was literally repeated at a Bible study one night as my dad prayed with a Polish man who had gotten into all sorts of trouble and had a paralyzed hand. We saw the hand straighten out and become normally functional. The man was ecstatic for a while but later stopped attending church ( like the 9 lepers who were cleansed but never came back to thank Jesus). So, I say what I say to you not from “theory”, academicism, or skepticism as to God’s power: faith is not something we manipulate God with. . . |
| Walter PolasikWalter |
When I was in my 20’s I often served as a translator for American Pentecostal preachers who wanted to share with our Polish congregations. One Sunday in Millvilke, NJ a preacher was preaching on a passage you mentioned, Mark 11:22,23. I didn’t know he was a WOF supporter and hadn’t yet read much of Hagin, et. al. The Polish congregation didn’t know about any of this either. I preached with the same fire and gusto he did but I began hearing some really, really bad theology from his mouth. He was saying that Mark 11:22 “in the Greek” was “better translated” as not “have faith in God” but, “have the God-kind of faith”. (!!!!) I nearly choked on my translation, but decided not to make a scene of it. We finished the message whereupon our intrepid evangelist began to pray for healing of “shortened legs”. You’ve seen this trick before? “Healing” people of conditions they didn’t know they had? Downstairs in the fellowship hall I caught our brother in conversation over dinner and asked him, publickly, to explain how it is that we can have the “God kind” of faith. “How does it say that in the Greek”? I asked. I knew it didn’t. I’d read the passage before and had an interlibrary Greek-English Bible. In short, I’d caught him in a bald faced LIE. Seeing that I knew what I was talking about the man not only excused himself from the table, he left the church without even saying goodbye to the pastor (who was stunned at the evangelist’s behavior). That Polish pastor’s predecessor had baptized me so he knew me well. The pastor and I had a long talk. Later, I would learn more about WOF, Pentecostal chicanery, miracle stories and claims that even major Pentecostal magazines like the “Word & Witness” and the “Evangel” refused to publish. Tall tales, sensationalism, conversations with “demons” (in the possessed) before sensationally performed “exorcisms”. . . |
| Scotty Searan |
Walter Polasik I am not WOF. I believe in taking the scriptures as they are. I am not crazy about going into the Greek and Hebrew to try to prove my point.I am just wanting in the churches and that includes me as a Disciple to have what Jesus Christ and the disciples had in the early church.Yes I believe in the sovereignty oi God. But wasn’t God and Jesus sovereign when they were healing and delivering everyone brought to them and some who just came to them.God says He is no respect of persons. Am I being facetious or asking too much of God. Is anything too hard for God?While I may be focusing on healing, but I won’t the Holy Ghost manifestation of more than tongues and interpretations in our churches. But healing will result in the use of all the Gifts of the Spirit.I don’t want the praise, but I want to experience the real Glory one more time. |
| Walter PolasikWalter |
My friend Leandra Esposito, whom I met at Calvary Temple AG and with whose youth-group I went to AG Youth Camp in Carlisle, PA twice while in my junior & senior years in high school, was diagnosed with leukemia when she was 20. She had by then been a Missions major at Evangel University (Springfield, MO). She was joyful, selfless, and beautiful when I last saw her. Soon, she lost all her hair. She had a bone-marrow transplant. It failed to “take”. We prayed for her. Dozens of churches prayed. I received news that she had been declared healed. It was false news. I found out she had died the day before her funeral. I’m 41 now. This was 20 years ago. I cried and cried that week. I couldn’t get over how someone so good, so young, . . .gone, at 20. We’d had our whole lives ahead of us. We were both intense Pentecostals. It shook my faith, especially the false report of her healing. On the bus coming back from camp the second time, I didn’t have enough money for a food stop but was hungry. So Leandra pretended she wasn’t hungry and gave me her slices of pizza. Such a simple act. Such love. That’s who she was. I don’t buy presumption. I don’t buy Hagin’s tall tales of having died 5 times and gone to see he’ll 5 timed. I don’t buy that God wants us to “little gods” (Crouch, Hinn, Copeland) and my biblical Pentecostalism recoil at the abuse of real faith and expectancy for God to move supernaturally as He wills. I’m still in touch with Leandra’s pastor. He never taught the nonsense TBN preaches and he’s been used in miracles over the years. Yet we can’t explain Leandra though we prayed and confessed (Ps. 103:1-3). |
| Walter PolasikWalter |
*inter-linear Greek-English Bible. Once again, thank auto-correct. I’m writing from a phone so I’ll correct my typo’s later. |
| Walter PolasikWalter |
Scotty Searan, My longer posts were addressed to Leon Bible, not you. I know you most likely hold to normal Pentecostal beliefs, not presumption. I know too many cases of things that went wrong for those who DO hold to such thinking. For instance, here in Philadelphia there is a church, not Pentecostal necessarily, but WOF-like called Faith Tabernacle that preaches against the use of medicine. They teach that if you do, or you go to doctors, “you’re not trusting God”. Yes, they’ve been on the national news before due to the deaths of two children (of members). I know one current member of that church personally as well as a former assistant pastor who came out of the church when it went cultic. This lie is real and doing its damage to believers. Meanwhile, the Church gets a “black eye” from the world, esp.Atheism, because of dangerous groups, and dangerous theology, like this. |
| Scotty Searan |
Walter Polasik You know what you did. You did not lie and God did not lie.Yes I had a dear friend who was my mentor, Raymond Rudd, I did not want him to die. He was my Sunday school teacher, He was my fishing buddy, he was my sounding board and he was deacon in our church. I didn’t want him to die. But I could not ask for God to let him live. He was like a daddy to me. All I could pray was Lord help him endure the pain.Our church had many messages in tongues and interpretations and prophecies that declared he was going to live and be back fulfilling the obligations in the church.One Sunday night they were praying for him, all I could hear in my spirit was 90 days and he will be home. They were praying for him, but me and my family went home while the church was praying. My family asked why i left so early? I didn’t want to tell them. I saw a black cloud and 90 days. I marked my calendar. But my oldest son who was 8 years old, but he was saved said: “DADDY, IT’S ABOUT BRO. RUDD” “YES” “DADDY I SAW A DARK CLOUD AND IT HAD “90” ON IT.” My son had scene the same cloud in his spirit.The next day, my pastor called and I reiterated the vision to her. But she shook it off that it was a dark cloud in my belief blocking my faith, I didn’t tell her how many days in my vision.We heard message in tongues and interpretations and prophecies that he would be reestablished.Three days before he passed, not me but another person, gave a word to the family and told them three days he would be gone. The pastor was at the house when the word was given without tongues, but a prophecy. And he was dead 90 days to the day. |
| Scotty Searan |
Walter Polasik Here is my theory on Doctors.Ultimately I don’t believe Jesus Christ wants His disciples to rely on doctors and medicine..Don’t say I’m speaking with a forked tongue, because I am not.If the Disciples do not have enough faith to believe for their own healing or somebody else healing, then they better get to the Dr. and take the medicines.God ultimately through creation of the human body certain genes.But I don’t believe he is setting in heaven and saying this one is going to be a DR, Lawyer, painter, musician and etc. I believe we can use our abilities to honor him or dishonor him.I disagree with Oral Roberts and the statements he made about God calling men into certain professions. I believe God is interested more in the spiritual man and his abilities than natural man’s abilitiesGod created in our bodies ways to heal themselves, but that doesn’t mean they are a spiritual gift.But it would be a lot less expensive to Increase the Saints faith to fully TRUST THE LORD.How can a preacher preach TRUST THE LORD when they don’t fully Trust Him.? |
| Scotty Searan |
Leon Bible I am not calling God a liar. I do not get every prayer answer or granted. That doesn’t change the picture. DO YOU TRULY BELIEVE WHAT YOU ARE TELLING ME TO BELIEVE.DO YOU GET EVERYTHING YOU ASK FOR?I AM NOT BEING FACETIOUS, HAVE YOU MOVED ANY MOUNTAINS.Are the people you are praying for getting healed or are they going to the Dr. and taking medicine leaning on the arm of flesh.Jesus Christ when he healed never told anyone to use another earthly physician or to take medicine.I am not criticizing you, if you use Dr or medicine, because I use them and will admit that I don’t have enough faith.If you are quoting all the scriptures and believing them, and nothing is happening, then you had better do some investigating, because there is still a shortage on your end. There is sin in your life if it ain’t happening, if you believe it so strongly.Yes brother Hagin said that a lot of his followers had abuse the word of Faith doctrine in the book Midas Touch. I don’t have it, but I borrowed from my sister-in-law and she said that was her least favorite book of his, because he tried to set his followers on the right path before he died. |
| Leon Bible |
Walter Polasik Above you said: ” But the “PMA” you mentioned is the same attitude, the same expectation, the same presumption.” While some of the mechanics are the same the DIFFERENCE is the object of faith. Mind Science groups believe in “Universal Mind” As A Christian our faith is in GOD the Father and the Integrity of HIS Word. NOW tell me how is that the same thing as the Mind Science groups? |
| Leon Bible |
Walter Polasik Above you said: “I know too many cases of things that went wrong for those who DO hold to such thinking.” Why do you base your thinking on the experiences of others and NOT the Word of God. Your are yet carnal in your thinking. Why do you fail to read, refuse to believe and never act on the simple Word of God as found in: Ex. 23:22-25; Lev. 26; Dt. 28; Job 33:14-33; Ps. 91; 103:3; Isa. 58; Mt. 8:17; Jn. 10:10; 2Cor. 11:30; Jas. 5:14-16, 1 Pet. 2:24. “Sicknesses and diseases were and still are special curses on human beings only when they won’t obey or when they fail to understand and appropriate God’s provision by faith” – Finis Jennings Dake, Ex 15:26 note |
| Leon Bible |
Scotty Searan Above you said: “I am not criticizing you, if you use Dr or medicine, because I use them and will admit that I don’t have enough faith.” You just proved my point. Thanks. So why not get enough faith? You have been dealt a measure of faith (rom 12:3) and you can increase your faith by immersing yourself into the Word of God. (Rom 10:17) Through prayer, fasting and living in the Word of God with a humble heart and obedience to God, EVERY single one of God’s promises can become a reality for the believer. “To help the sick one must recognize sickness as coming from Satan, believe that God has made provision for healing, appropriate the Bible’s many promises for such, and understand that God will heal today through Christ, as well as forgive sins.” Finis Jennings Dake, Job 33:23 note |
| Scotty Searan |
Leon Bible Kjv the measure of faith (Rom 12:3) There is a difference between a and the. One way everybody’s given the same and the other different. I go with the. I agree with all the scriptures. I do not doubt the scriptures Yes I do need to increase my faith I do not deny that. I never had. I have never said or implied God liedBut do you take medicine,? Do you go to Drs?I am honest I said I do and I do. I challenge you to answer my question.Yes I want the church to have the power that the early church had. They only had what Jesus had taught them, the Old Testament and what the Holy Ghost was giving themThey did it as a group mostly, because the people brought the people to the Disciples. Peter was one of the stand outs, but that was fulfillment of prophecy. But it did not show or tell they were using all the scripture manipulations.They brought the sickThe asked the Disciples for healing, while some did not ask for healing, they receive healing.You see Jesus Christ in a thumbnail said Trust Jesus Christ and you will receive what you ask for. I believe that trust goes deeper than just believing.I challenge you once again to answer yes or no Do you take medicine or use Drs.I do have a Dakes Bible, but I do not agree with him on everything. But it is a good Bible. I also like Life In The Spirit Bible also. It is more balanced faith bible.Please accept the challenge show your trust |
| Leon Bible |
Scotty Searan No problem in answering your questions. I am 63 years old and I do NOT take any medicines. I see a Dr every year for a physical and I have GREAT health, no sickness and no disease. – Thank the Lord – BUT my personal experience does not have anything to do with the Word of God and the promises God has made concerning healing. It was God who promised that “by his stripes we are healed.” 1 Pet 2:24. Now if I needed healing as I have faced in my life I have always relied upon that passage. And God has never lied one single time. BUT if I or you did not receive healing that still does not make God a liar. Why not inspect ourselves? Why not increase our faith? Why nor fast up to 40 days if needed? Why not pray? Why not stand on the Word of God? Why not believe in the love and compassion of God? Why not believe in the integrity of God and the fact that HE is not a liar? It is easy to be healed and to be saved. God’s grace and mercy is available for both. |
| Gary Morris |
How can God not be sovereign even when it comes to salvation?“As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?â€â€â€Romans‬ â€9:13-24‬ |
| Nathaniel Rodriguez |
There are many biblical principles and concepts and they are woven together as one fabric…we are unfortunately the ones who decide which to cancel out… |
| Scotty Searan |
Or receive |
| Tim Crow |
Nathaniel Rodriguez making some valid points here |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Unbelief limits the work of God because he allows it. Its another example of why the future is open and Calvinism and Arminianism are not logical. |
| Joseph D. Absher |
That Jesus did not do any miracles among them did not affect the ability of God to do miracles at all” – Tim Crow. This I think is your best answer. You’ve offered some caution against faith and advice against men being involved in God’s business. Very thoughtful thank you. |
| Louise Cummings |
If you noticed in the Bible. When He prayed for the little girl that was dead. Jesus said to them. She’s not dead but sleeps. They laughed at Him. He put the doubt aside wouldn’t let them in the room. He let His Disciples and the girls mother and Daddy in the room. Maid or damsel arise. She arose and gave her something to eat. People that doubt they can be healed or saved. He doesn’t save them or heal them. He works through faith. |
| Scotty Searan |
I definitely believe in faith. FAITH does not have to be in all parties involved.It wasn’t the faith of the damsel that got her healed.There was plenty of faith in the room even if Jesus Christ was the only one in the room. But I believe there was faith in the parents and the Disciples. I could share others that I believe Jesus Christ and the Disciples healed despite the individuals maybe not having faith or enough faith.NOW I AM SHOUTING THIS. WHY HAVE WE ALLOWED SATAN TO FILL US WITH THE FALSE DOCTRINE THAT WE CAN’T SEE THE MIGHTY WORKS OF CHRIST BECAUSE OF THAT ONE SMALL TOWN IN ISRAEL THAT DID NOT BELIEVE.LOOK AT HOW MANY MIRACLES AND HEALINGS HE DONE IN ALL THE OTHER TOWNS. I DON’T KNOW HOW MANY TOWNS HE VISITED, BUT JESUS CHRIST DID MANY MIRACLES AND MIGHTY WORKS IN ALL THESE TOWNS. BUT WE LET ONE SAY NO AND WE BELIEVE THE WORLD IS A BIG NO.DID EVERYBODY BELIEVE IN THE OTHER TOWNS. DEFINITELY NO AND IT DIDN’T HINDER JESUS CHRIST Now am I off scripturally?Didn’t Jesus say we would do greater things?We do have power despite the circumstances to overcome them.Let’s pull down the strongholds |
| Louise Cummings |
He told one man or woman. I can’t remember right now. But I could find it. Jesus said. According to your faith be it unto you. Our faith let’s us know who Jesus is. We have to have faith to believe He was the Son of God. He works in the Faith of Rhodes who believe Who He is. Because The Bible says Without Faith it is impossible to please God. God does what is need to be done or not. Because he stopped a funeral possession one time. And healed the young man. But he knew the man’s Mother that he was all she had. She had no other to help her. Jesus could see her loneliness and stopes the funeral possession. And healed him. And he went back home with his Mother. God knows every situation. And He works according to what is bedded. The Bible says He knows what we need before we ask. But He said Ask I faith believing. Because if we don’t believe. It’s like a wave on the sea. It is cast away. When we ask. We are to ask in faith. |
| Louise Cummings |
That was suppose to be of those who believes in Him. I hit one wrong letter. It was suppose to Those |
| Tim Crow |
Good point bro Joseph D. Absher Very Arminian of you 🙂 |
| Joseph D. Absher |
nothing common about grace! |
| Joseph D. Absher |
Beans and rice and Jesus Christ! |
| Louise Cummings |
I don’t get your point. |
| Tim Crow |
actually I am going with beef tacos today |
| Joseph D. Absher |
Mrs Louise CummingsBeans and rice and Jesus Christ is an encounragement focus on the things that really matter. We ought have faith. Jesus said so. We ought to encourage faith and desire to build one another up in the things of God. God bless you and keep you and hear yours prayers in Jesus mighty name. |
| Louise Cummings |
Joseph D. Absher thank you. It’s good to build one another up. Especially when we are lifting up Jesus. I have noticed n Facebook they use a lot Of initials. Most of the time I don’t know what they mean. The ones I remember are from way back from my parents. They are completely out of style now. |
| Louise Cummings |
Sounds good to me I haven’t eaten yet. I think anything sounds good. Lol. |
| Louise Cummings |
But don’t forget a lot of sour cream and cheese |
