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Does PAOC still uphold Pentecostal theology?
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Varnel Watson
This has been discussed before with Andrew Gabriel but in light of new post-mil changes may require some further attn
Diane Shearer
Troy Day
72% believe they can be saved without being baptized in the Holy Spirit ??
How sad.
Rom.8:9-11
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Varnel Watson
I just post the stats I am lost at their interpretation variants as much as everyone else herein the group
Andrew Gabriel
Troy Day- What survey of the PAOC are you referring to?
Varnel Watson
Tim Dalton Daniel J Hesse after clearing the fact that PAOC do not uphold the Initial Evidence of speaking in tongues any longer
THEY don’t believe in tongues as necessarily the initial evidence in Canada. They have dropped premil from their statement of faith and some Penteostals in Canada are even a-mil
I am asking
when a Pentecostal group drop 2-3 out of 5 pillars of Pentecosts FULL Gospel are they STILL even Pentecostal?
Varnel Watson
Terry Wiles is it true that simply filled with the Spirit in PAOC of Canada simply means a baptist view with no speaking in tongues like Link Hudson is proposing? Daniel J Hesse Angel Ruiz
Link Hudson
In which an individual may or may not speak in tongues, like what may have been the situation in Acts 19 where some prophesied.
Varnel Watson
Acts 2, 8, 10 is more than enough evidence
Link Hudson
Troy Day LIke chapter 10 where individuals in the group either spoke in tongues or magnified God, or Acts 8 which does not mention speaking in tongues at all. But if we can just eisegete that into the passage, we are cool, right?
Varnel Watson
Acts 2, 8, 10 is more than sufficient proof
Link Hudson
That you don’t have much of a case.
Varnel Watson
Not sure what you are talking about but I dont have a case anyway. Jesus, Luke. Paul, the early church and the early Pentecostals had much of a case interpreting speaking in tongues in their experience and in the Bible this way – I hope you dont see yourself smarter than all of them
Link Hudson
Troy Day There is no evidence at all that anyone in the BIble ever thought that if someone did not speak in tongues, he was not filled or baptized with the Holy Ghost. That was sloppy hermeneutics on the part of some early Pentecostals, and it has caused quite a bit of unnecessary division.
Paul even asked, “Not all speak in tongues, do they?” If the Holy Ghost had meant to convey to us that no one who had spoken in tongues was filled with or baptized with the Holy Ghost, would he have had Paul ask such a question, especially without making this doctrine clear in other scripture?
Daniel J Hesse
Is premil a game breaker? Nowadays?How many modernist Pentecostals hold to it?
Varnel Watson
The majority Pentecostals in the USA and around the globe are still pre-mil and will always be despite NAR Angel Ruiz
Varnel Watson
https://www.challies.com/articles/test-every-doctrine-test-every-teacher/?fbclid=IwAR0f13XW2N3GuGGAOMziWMTbbJX46-4doNyqUpcfekI6FX5IUWfpZgeGcos
Daniel J Hesse
Troy Day can we get some interaction here? I believe this is a critical conversation worthy of thought.
Varnel Watson
about false doctrines? – not really my specialty I am only about good ol true doctrines – nothing false 🙂
Daniel J Hesse
Troy Day it might be neat to run some of our present day teachings and use this to discern.
Andrew Gabriel
To clarify, the PAOC has not changed its statement of faith. We are in a process of refreshing it, but no vote will happen until May 2020. Also, the PAOC has certainly not gone Post-mil (the majority still even affirm a pre-trib rapture). Not sure where that idea came from. And it hasn’t rejected initial evidence either. 84% still affirm “Speaking in tongues is the initial physical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit.” Here are stats from a survey my colleague and I conducted of PAOC clergy: https://www.andrewkgabriel.com/2018/01/22/changes-pentecostal-clergy/
Daniel J Hesse
Andrew Gabriel this is great. Except many like me are looking for more than initial evidence. I hope I can at least have evidence which surpasses the initial.
Varnel Watson
I cannot open the link …
What exactly is being changes?
The wording or the praxis?
Varnel Watson
IF the vision of Early 20th century Pentecostals was to restore the 5 corner stones of original Apostolic theology, why we dropping them now one by one? Melvin Harter Terry Wiles