In 1 John 4:2b, what does John mean by ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα? “In flesh [and blood]” or “among humans/men”? And why is this such an important issue?
Please provide primary source(s) for any historical references.
By the way, my own view is that “John” wrote his letter to correct various misrepresentations of Jesus, such as saying that he was divine or an angel (the message of the antichrists) which he considered idolatry.
σάρξ, σαρκός, ἡ (Hom.+; ‘flesh’). ① the material that covers the bones
of a human or animal body, flesh lit. 1 Cor 15:39abcd; Hv 3, 10, 4; 3,
12, 1. The pl. (which denotes flesh in the mass [Lucian, Dial. Mort.
10, 5], whereas the sing. rather denotes the substance.—Herodas 4, 61;
Gen 40:19; 1 Km 17:44; 4 Km 9:36; PsSol 4:19; TestJob 13:5; Philo;
Jos., Ant. 12, 211; Just., A I, 26, 7; Mel., P. 52, 383; Ath. 34, 2)
Lk 24:39 v.l.; Rv 19:18, 21 (4 [6] Esdr [POxy 1010, 16] cannibalism
out of hunger, sim. Mel., P. 52, 383; Quint. Smyrn. 11, 245: the
σάρκες of the slain are food for the birds) B 10:4; metaph. Rv 17:16.
It decays 1 Cl 25:3; cp. Ac 2:31 (cp. 2a below). Normally gives forth
an evil odor when burned MPol 15:2. W. bones (s. ὀστέον) 1 Cl 6:3 (Gen
2:23); Lk 24:39; Eph 5:30 v.l. (metaph.). Paul speaks of his illness
as a σκόλοψ τῇ σαρκί (s. σκόλοψ) 2 Cor 12:7. ἡ ἐν σαρκὶ περιτομή the
physical circumcision (cp. Just., D. 10, 1 al.) Ro 2:28; cp. Eph
2:11b; Col 2:13 (ἀκροβυστία 2); Gal 6:13 (ἡ σάρξ=the flesh that is
circumcised); B 9:4. Metaph.: the corrosion on the precious metals of
the rich φάγεται τὰς σάρκας ὑμῶν ὡς πῦρ Js 5:3.—Ign. describes the
elements of the Eucharist as σὰρξ (or αἷμα) Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ IRo 7:3;
IPhld 4; ISm 7:1. Also J 6:51–56 urges that one must eat the flesh
(and drink the blood) of the Human One or Son of Man (Just., A I, 66,
2; s. TPhilips, Die Verheissung der hl. Eucharistie nach Joh. 1922;
Bultmann ad loc.; AWikenhauser ’48, 105f).—His anti-Docetic position
also leads Ign. to use the concept ‘flesh (and blood) of p 915
Christ’ in other contexts as well ITr 8:1; IPhld 5:1.—For Mt 16:17;
Gal 1:16; Eph 6:12; and 1 Cor 15:50 s. 3a. ② the physical body as
functioning entity, body, physical body ⓐ as substance and living
entity (Aeschyl., Sept. 622: opp. νοῦς; Ex 30:32; 4 Km 6:30; TestAbr A
20 p. 103, 6 [Stone p. 54] πάντα τὰ μέλη τῆς σαρκός μου; w. καρδία or
ψυχή Alex. Aphr., An. p. 98, 7–10 Br.; Ps 37:8; 62:2; Eccl 2:3; Ezk
11:19; 44:7 a1.; Jos., Bell. 6, 47, Ant. 19, 325; Ar.15, 7) οὔτε ἡ
σὰρξ αὐτοῦ εἶδεν διαφθοράν Ac 2:31 (but s. 1). W. ψυχή 1 Cl 49:6 (Tat.
13:2 al.). W. καρδία Ac 2:26 (Ps 15:9).—Eph 5:29. ἑόρακαν τὸ πρόσωπόν
μου ἐν σαρκί they have seen me face to face Col 2:1. ἕως ἂν τὸν
χριστὸν ἐν σαρκὶ ἴδῃ before he had seen the Messiah in person GJs 24:4
(cp. Lk 2:26). Opp. πνεῦμα (Ath. 31:3; PGM 5, 460 ἐπικαλοῦμαί σε τὸν
κτίσαντα πᾶσαν σάρκα κ. πᾶν πνεῦμα) 1 Cor 5:5; 2 Cor 7:1; Col 2:5; 1
Pt 4:6; Hm 3:1; 10, 2, 6; cp. AcPl Ant 13:17 (=Aa, I 237, 2; s. οἶδα);
also in relation to Christ (though this is disputed) J 6:63; Hs 5, 6,
5–7; cp. 1 Ti 3:16.—ἀσθένεια τῆς σαρκός bodily ailment Gal 4:13; s.
vs. 14. ἀσθενὴς τῇ σαρκί weak in the body Hs 9, 1, 2. ὁ ἀλγῶν σάρκα
the one who is ill in body B 8:6. πάσχειν σαρκί 1 Pt 4:1b. Cp. 2 Cor
7:5. ἡ τῆς σαρκὸς καθαρότης the purity of the body Hb 9:13 (opp.
καθαρίζειν τὴν συνείδησιν vs. 14). σαρκὸς ἀπόθεσις ῥύπου 1 Pt 3:21 (s.
ῥύπος 1). The σάρξ is raised fr. the dead (s. ParJer 6:9; Theoph. Ant.
1, 7 [74, 2]) 1 Cl 26:3; 2 Cl 9:1. ἀνάστασις σαρκός AcPlCor 1:12; 2:24
(σαρκὸς ἀνάστασιν Just., D. 80, 5); cp. ἀναστήσεσθε ἔχοντες ὑγιῆ τὴν
σάρκα AcPlCor 2:32. Of the body of Christ during his earthly ministry
Eph 2:14 (JHart, The Enmity in His Flesh: Exp. 6th ser., 3, 1901,
135–41); Hb 10:20; 1 Pt 3:18; 4:1a; 1J 4:2; 2J 7; B 5:1, 10f; 6:7, 9;
7:5; 12:10; IEph 7:2; Pol 7:1; AcPlCor 2:6b. Married couples form μία
σάρξ (Gen 2:24; s. Ath. 33, 2 τὴν σάρκα πρὸς σάρκα …
κοινωνίαν.—GAicher, Mann u. Weib ein Fleisch: BZ 5, 1907, 159–65) Mt
19:5f; Mk 10:8ab; 1 Cor 6:16; Eph 5:31 (on these passages, TBurkill,
ZNW 62, ’71, 115–20). δικαιώματα σαρκός behind ‘all sorts of
ceremonial washings’ there are regulations that concern the physical
body Hb 9:10.—On ὑποτάγητε τῷ ἐπισκόπῳ ὡς ὁ Χριστὸς τῷ πατρὶ κατὰ
σάρκα IMg 13:2 s. Hdb. ad loc. and MRackl, Die Christologie des hl.
Ignatius v. Ant. 1914, 228.—πνεῦμα δυνάμεως … ὁ θεὸς … κατέπεμψεν εἰς
σάρκα τουτέστιν εἰς τὴν Μαρίαν God sent a powerful spirit (prob. a
ref. to the kind of divine breath that brought the first human being
to life [Gen 2:7]) into flesh, that is, into Mary AcPl Ha 8, 26=BMM
recto 34; s. AcPlCor 1:14. ⓑ as someth. with physical limitations,
life here on earth (ApcEsdr 4:4 p. 28, 3 Tdf. σάρκα ἀνθρωπίνην φορῶ)
θλῖψιν τῇ σαρκὶ ἕξουσιν 1 Cor 7:28. Cp. 2 Cor 4:11; Col 1:24. Of
Christ τὸ σῶμα τῆς σαρκὸς αὐτοῦ his body with its physical limitations
Col 1:22; cp. 2:11 and s. cα below (cp. En 102:5 τὸ σῶμα τῆς σαρκὸς
ὑμῶν; 1QpHab 9:2; Orig., C. Cels. 6, 29, 25).—Of human life: ἀποδημεῖν
τῆς σαρκός MPol 2:2 (s. ἀποδημέω). ἐπιμένειν ἐν τῇ σαρκί Phil 1:24.
ζῆν ἐν σαρκί vs. 22; Gal 2:20. ἐν σ. περιπατεῖν 2 Cor 10:3a. ἐν σ.
τυγχάνειν Dg 5:8a. ὄντος ἔτι ἐν σ. σου AcPlCor 1:6. τὸν ἐπίλοιπον ἐν
σ. χρόνον 1 Pt 4:2. ἡ ἐπιδημία τῆς σαρκὸς ταύτης our sojourn in life
2 Cl 5:5. ἐν τῇ σαρκί in our earthly life 8:2. ⓒ as instrument of
various actions or expressions. α. In Paul’s thought esp., all parts
of the body constitute a totality known as σ. or flesh, which is
dominated by sin to such a degree that wherever flesh is, all forms of
sin are likew. present, and no good thing can live in the σάρξ Ro 7:18
(cp. Philo, Gig. 29 αἴτιον δὲ τῆς ἀνεπιστημοσύνης μέγιστον ἡ σὰρξ καὶ
ἡ πρὸς σάρκα οἰκείωσις; Sextus 317 ἀγαθὸν ἐν σαρκὶ μὴ ἐπιζήτει. The OT
lays no stress on a necessary relationship betw. flesh as a substance,
and sin. But for Epicurus the σάρξ is the bearer of sinful feelings
and desires as well as the means of sensual enjoyment: Ep. in Plut.,
Mor. 135c; 1087bf; 1089e; 1096c αἱ τῆς σαρκὸς ἐπιθυμίαι. Also Diog. L.
10, 145. Likew. Plut. himself: Mor. 101b ταῖς τῆς σαρκὸς ἡδοναῖς;
672e; 688d; 734a; Ps.-Plut., Mor. 107f σαρκὶ καὶ τοῖς πάθεσι ταύτης;
Maximus Tyr. 33, 7a. Cp. 4 Macc 7:18 τὰ τῆς σαρκὸς πάθη; Philo, Deus
Imm. 143 σαρκὸς ἡδονή, Gig. 29; TestJud 19:4; TestZeb 9:7; ApcMos 25
[p. 14, 2 Tdf.] εἰς τὴν ἁμαρτίαν τῆς σαρκός); Ro 6:19; 7:25 (opp.
νοῦς); 8:3a, 4–9 (cp. Persius 2, 63 scelerata pulpa, which
contaminates devotion to deity), 12f; Gal 5:13, 24; Col 2:23; Jd 23;
AcPlCor 2:11, 15; Dg 6:5 (opp. ψυχή, as Plut., Mor. 101b). Opp. τὸ
πνεῦμα Ro 8:4, 5, 6, 9, 13; Gal 3:3; 5:16, 17ab; 6:8ab; J 3:6; B 10:9.
τὸ μὲν πνεῦμα πρόθυμον, ἡ δὲ σὰρξ ἀσθενής (cp. Orig., C. Cels. 2, 25,
8) Mt 26:41; Mk 14:38; Pol 7:2. σὰρξ ἁμαρτίας sinful flesh Ro 8:3b.
ἐπιθυμία (τῆς) σαρκός (cp. Maximus Tyr. 20, 9f σαρκῶν … ἐπιθυμίας) Gal
5:16; 1J 2:16; B 10:9. Pl. Eph 2:3a, cp. b; 2 Pt 2:18; cp. Ro 13:14.
τὰ ἔργα τῆς σαρκός Gal 5:19 (s. Vögtle at πλεονεξία). τὰ θελήματα τῆς
σαρκός Eph 2:3b. ὁ νοῦς τῆς σαρκός Col 2:18. τὸ σῶμα τῆς σαρκός the
body of (sinful) flesh 2:11; cp. 1:22 and s. b above (cp. Sir 23:17
σῶμα σαρκὸς αὐτοῦ; En 102:5 τῷ σώματι τῆς σαρκὸς ὑμῶν). τὰ τῆς σαρκός
what pertains to (sinful) flesh Ro 8:5b. ἐν (τῇ) σαρκὶ εἶναι be in an
unregenerate (and sinful) state Ro 7:5; 8:8f. τὰ ἔθνη ἐν σαρκί Eph
2:11a. κατὰ σάρκα εἶναι Ro 8:5a; ζῆν vs. 12b; 13; Dg 5:8b; περιπατεῖν
Ro 8:4; 2 Cor 10:2; βουλεύεσθαι 1:17; στρατεύεσθαι 10:3b; cp. IRo 8:3
(opp. κατὰ γνώμην θεοῦ). β. source of the sexual urge. The σάρξ is the
source of the sexual urge, without any suggestion of sinfulness
connected w. it ἐκ θελήματος σαρκὸς ἐγεννήθησαν J 1:13. ⓓ as someth.
attractive 2 Pt 2:10 (a Hebraism, cp. Judg 2:12; 3 Km 11:10; Sir
46:10). S. also 3b. ③ one who is or becomes a physical being, living
being with flesh ⓐ of humans person, human being: πᾶσα σάρξ every
person, everyone (LXX; TestAbr B 7 p. 112, 3 [Stone p. 72]; GrBar
4:10; ApcEsdr 7:7; ApcMos 13 [p. 7, 1 Tdf.]; Mel., P. 55, 400: for
כָּל-בָּשָׂר; s. πᾶς 1aα) Lk 3:6 (Is 40:5); J 17:2; Ac 2:17 (Jo 3:1);
1 Pt 1:24 (Is 40:6); 1 Cl 59:3; 64; 2 Cl 7:6; 17:5 (the last two Is
66:24); AcPlCor 2:6a. οὐ πᾶσα σάρξ no person, nobody (En 14:21
end.—W-S. §26, 10a; B-D-F §275, 4; 302, 1; Rob. 752) Mt 24:22; Mk
13:20; Ro 3:20 (cp. Ps 142:2 πᾶς ζῶν); 1 Cor 1:29 (μή); Gal
2:16.—Though σ. in the foll. passages refers to body in its physical
aspect, it cannot be divorced from its conjunction with αἷμα, and the
unit σὰρξ καὶ αἷμα (cp. Sir 17:31; TestAbr B 13 p. 117, 26 [Stone p.
82]; Philo, Quis Div. Rer. Her. 57; Just., D. 135, 6) refers to a
human being in contrast to God and other transcendent beings Mt 16:17;
Gal 1:16; Eph 6:12 (here vice versa, αἷ. καὶ σ.). τὰ παιδία
κεκοινώνηκεν αἵματος καὶ σαρκός the children share mortal nature Hb
2:14, but with suggestion of its frailty, as indicated by the context
with its ref. to death. Because they are the opposites of the divine
nature σὰρξ καὶ αἷμα βασιλείαν θεοῦ κληρονομῆσαι οὐ δύναται 1 Cor
15:50 (JJeremias, NTS 2, ’56, 151–59). For Jd 7 s. b next. Cp. AcPl
Ant 13, 17 (=Aa I 237, 2) σαρκί personally (s. οἶδα 2). ⓑ of
transcendent entities ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο J 1:14 (RSeeberg, Festgabe
AvHarnack dargebracht 1921, 263–81.—Artem. 2, 35 p. 132, 27 ἐὰν
σάρκινοι οἱ θεοὶ φαίνωνται; Synes., Dio 6 p. 45b).—Of flesh other than
human: ὀπίσω σαρκὸς ἑτέρας after another kind of flesh (cp. Judg 2:12
ὀπίσω θεῶν ἑτέρων) i.e. of divine messengers who take on σ. when they
appear to humans (so Windisch et al.; difft. Frame et al. of same-sex
activity) Jd 7. p 916
…④ human/ancestral connection, human/mortal nature, earthly
descent (Did., Gen. 144, 25) Ἀβραὰμ τὸν προπάτορα ἡμῶν κατὰ σάρκα Ro
4:1 (Just., D. 43, 7 al.). οἱ συγγενεῖς μου κατὰ σάρκα 9:3. τοὺς τῆς
σαρκὸς ἡμῶν πατέρας Hb 12:9. τὸν Ἰσραὴλ κατὰ σάρκα the earthly Israel
1 Cor 10:18 (opp. τὸν Ἰσραὴλ τοῦ θεοῦ Gal 6:16). Of natural descent
τὰ τέκνα τῆς σαρκός children by natural descent Ro 9:8 (opp. τὰ τέκνα
τῆς ἐπαγγελίας). ὁ μὲν ἐκ τῆς παιδίσκης κατὰ σάρκα γεγέννηται Gal
4:23; cp. vs. 29. μου τὴν σάρκα my compatriots Ro 11:14 (s. Gen
37:27).—Of Christ’s physical nature Ro 8:3c; Hb 5:7. Christ is
descended fr. the patriarchs and fr. David (τὸ) κατὰ σάρκα according
to the human side of his nature, as far as his physical descent is
concerned Ro 1:3 (JDunn, Jesus: Flesh and Spirit [Ro 1:3f], JTS 24,
’73, 40–68); 9:5; 1 Cl 32:2; IEph 20:2. The context of 2 Cor 11:18
includes ancestry as a reason for boasting, but σ. in this pass.
applies as well to other aspects of Paul’s career and therefore
belongs more properly in 5…
⑤ the outward side of life as determined by normal perspectives or
standards, a transf. sense of 1 and 2. Usually w. κατά indicating norm
or standard σοφοὶ κατὰ σάρκα wise (people) according to human
standards 1 Cor 1:26. καυχᾶσθαι κατὰ (τὴν) σάρκα boast of one’s
outward circumstances, i.e. descent, manner of life, etc. (cp. 11:22)
2 Cor 11:18. κατὰ σάρκα Χριστόν Christ (the Messiah) from a human
point of view or as far as externals are concerned 5:16b, cp. a (κατά
B5bβ and 7a; also VWeber, BZ 2, 1904, 178–88; HWindisch, exc. ad loc.;
Rtzst., Mysterienrel.3, 374–76; FPorter, Does Paul Claim to Have Known
the Historical Jesus [2 Cor 5:16]?: JBL 47, 1928, 257–75; RMoxon, CQR
108, 1929, 320–28). οἱ κατὰ σάρκα κύριοι those who, according to human
standards, are masters Eph 6:5; Col 3:22. ὑμεῖς κατὰ τὴν σ. κρίνετε
you judge by outward things, by externals J 8:15. Of the route taken
in one’s earthly life ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ κατὰ σάρκα IRo 9:3.—ἐν σαρκὶ πεποιθέναι
place one’s trust in earthly things or physical advantages Phil 3:3f.
εὐπροσωπῆσαι ἐν σαρκί Gal 6:12. Onesimus is a beloved brother to
Philemon καὶ ἐν σαρκὶ καὶ ἐν κυρίῳ both as a human being (=personally,
in the external relationship betw. master and slave) and as a
Christian Phlm 16. ὑμῶν δὲ ἐν σαρκὶ ἐπισκόπῳ IEph 1:3 (cp. IMg
3:2).—HWindisch, Taufe u. Sünde 1908; EBurton, ICC Gal. 1920, 492–95;
WSchauf, Sarx 1924; WBieder, Auferstehung des Fleisches od. des
Leibes?: TZ 1, ’45, 105–20. W. special ref. to Paul: Ltzm., Hdb. exc.
on Ro 7:14 and 8:11; Lohmeyer (ἁμαρτία 3a); EKäsemann, Leib u. Leib
Christi ’33; RGrant, ATR 22, ’40, 199–203; RBultmann, Theologie des
NTs ’48, 228–49 (Engl. tr. by KGrobel, ’51 I, 227–59); LMarshall,
Challenge of NT Ethics ’47, 267–70; E Schweizer, Die hellenist.
Komponente im NT sarx-Begriff: ZNW 48, ’57, 237–53; two in KStendahl,
The Scrolls and the NT, ’57: KKuhn, 94–113 and WDavies, 157–82;
JPryke, ‘Spirit’ and ‘Flesh’ in Qumran and NT: RevQ 5, ’65, 346–60;
DLys, La chair dans l’AT ’67; ASand, D. Begriff ‘Fleisch’ ’67 (Paul);
RJewett, Paul’s Anthropological Terms ’71, 49–166. On Ign.:
CRichardson, The Christianity of Ign. of Ant. ’35, esp. 49 and 61. S.
also the lit. s.v. πνεῦμα, end.—B. 202. DELG. M-M. EDNT. TW. Spicq.
Sv.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon
of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p.
916). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
Varnel Watson
Joe Absher OK OK Isara Mo we will re-read your answers on the case study and see how they relate to the Jezebel spirit BUT even Link Hudson must agree the list of types of demons in the NT and their names which Perry has made is pretty BIBLICAL
Ricky Grimsley
Troy Day I like Perry. He’s just wrong on pre-trib rapture and I think he gets used by political people he knows to unwittingly further their propaganda
Link Hudson
I never said that I do not like Perry Stone.
Varnel Watson
Link Hudson I should have said his pre-trib rapture theology as I meant Ricky Grimsley was crying how many Perry videos were being posted sometimes back I dont think the political connection is correctly judged here like in the case of Mike Brown or Jentzen or even Paula
Link Hudson
Troy Day I have seen a Perry Stone video you posted where he interprets I Thessalonians 2 through his pre-trib filter, without offering any justification for reading it that way.
Varnel Watson
Link Hudson I have not posted such – where? A simple straight read of I Thessalonians 2 in the Greek shows pre-Trib with no need of further interpretation It says what is says
Link Hudson
Troy Day What is in Greek that isn’t in English? Why do the translators get it wrong in your opinion, Troy?
Varnel Watson
I would like to REcap for Isara Mo who was again late for class when saying
Joes case study didnt indicate the lady had ANY ILL MOTIVES and perhaps she didnt even know she had demons but by what happened at the door I might politely say the “things inside of her” ie the powers of darkness in her might have been very malicious such that God had to block her before she mixed herself with the congregation.
Strong witches do have covers for themselves and only the Lord or the really annointed servants of God can arrest or expose such as these..
Some demons are very smart and depart their victims when enter church and wait until.they leave church to re enter them.
Possibly the lady in Joes case study didnt know they had reached the militarized zone..?
THIS IS WHAT we know from the case study by Joe Absher in a more orderly way under this post asking the questions
1. spiritual warfare – do we fight such or do we live
2. can we accept and allow just any such without deeper review just to justify church growth initiative
3. which gift has more weight – knowing the spirit or gift of wisdom in action to operate in the situation and protect the flock
I’ve seen many cases where the person gets slammed at the church door arrested by the Holy Ghost who does not permit them to enter the sanctuary all and while church folk aint got a clue no more
Its the old question can a Christian have a demon. Been tossed back and forth here for years.
A lady, 6 months ago comes to church –
The Holy Ghost slams her at the door – she never entered the church sanctuary. starts jerking – her husband says its seizure’s but it was clear it was a demon.
she never shows up again. until months later – all dressed up – asks for the mic right off the bat to testify.
Say’s she was oppressed not possessed because Christians cannot be possessed.
but she could feel the demon spirit. She was always depressed. never wanted to come out of the house. for months.
friends went to visit a week ago – prayed anointed her with olive oil – she has been saved for 30 years but never filled with the spirit FELT she was filled with the spirit right then.
testified in church prayed for people laid hands jumped all over the place screamed at the alter saying revival has already come. should she be allowed to do that?
Paul L. King then clarified
Demon, mental illness or both. I have seen them all. We had an incident in our church just a few weeks ago. A young man came in, was worshipping the Lord, hands raised, holding a Bible, then fell, hitting a table, then starting shouting the Lord’s Prayer, then as he was being escorted out of the church by a male nurse an an EMT in our congregation, he was shouting he was a prophet of God. An ambulance carried him off. Didn’t have opportunity to minister to him, but later found out he has some drug background and his brother died 6 weeks earlier, so it appeared to be a combination of drugs, psychotic break, and demonic.
Isara Mo then responded to
Blessed be bother Joe and even more blessed Doctor King for always keeping afloat such a very important subject…
The 3 questions posted above and the case studies of Doc King and Brother Joe show that a person has a responsibilty for their own spritual.growth which is foundational for the whole church growth.In the process of personal growth fights” an own warfare…I think is a very important part of getting to a higher level of ” fighting” warfare OUT OF HIM..or battling the forces of evil in the spritual realm.
A lifestyle of personal holiniess and divine knowledge and impartation of the same to other members would see the involvement of church in spritual warfare.
Lifestyles only are not enough .There need to fight.There is cause to fight but as you have posted the question of HOW TO FIGHT remains elusive.
We might have many many schemes and plans and “strategies warfare” teachings which are ” human.based or quasi spritual” which may have no effect at all against the kingdom.of darkness.
So it boils down to the third question posted…Whither best GIFT?
An overview of the Book of Acts of the Holy Spirit not of the apostles show that ALL SPRITUAL GIFTS ARE NEEDED…in the spritual warfare..and church growth..
Yes a church CAN GROW without any shots fired ie without any spiritual wars…
IMO Even Link Hudson would agree THAT a jezebel spirit should NOT be allowed to profit prophetically from the church AND I am not merely saying this but drawing directly from one of his many posts on prophecy where he explains how the gift of gift of tongues is prophecy or something similar in his video which I cant find on the internet any longer but am quoting from memory until he posts again
Joe Absher
1. lack of empathy
2. needs a cover or mask
3. lack of patience
4. Idolatry of people places and things
5. claims secret or extraordinary knowledge
Joe Absher
Hosea 4:6 KJV — My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: BECAUSE THOU HAST REJECTED KNOWLEDGE, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
the second half of this verse is often forgotten or passed over. it is important and fundamental for the fear of the Lord. a principal neglected to our peril as it the beginning of wisdom. Fear God men not so much.
the knowledge of Christ is the light of heaven. the word of God brings grace & faith, both essential to deliverance and victory in this life and a fair showing on that great day, with a willing and obedient heart washed in the blood of Jesus Christ.
Here’s a 5 more possible “signs”
1. lack of empathy
A. cold hard heart possessed by sin
2. needs a cover or mask
A. Fear of exposure
3. lack of patience
A. Strings, conditional acceptance, approval
4. Idolatry of people places and things
A. Corrupt affections , priorities out of order,
5. claims secret or extraordinary knowledge
A. Covets position, needs to demonstrate knowledge
Via con Dios
Isara Mo
Joe Absher
That second part of the verse is surely overlooked by most of us .
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo why do you think is that
Isara Mo
Joe Absher
Are there people out there reading this stuff by brother Joe?..
Come and lets discuss and share ideas
Joe Absher
Galatians calls witchcraft a sin of the flesh which I think is interesting. Its pharmikia (drugs) but it opens the soul up for great damage and corruption.
Isara Mo
Troy Day
Misguided notions that grace has overwritten law completely so cannot reject you if you disobey Him.
Havent you heard what they teach out there?
Christ has FINISHED ALL…
But for me the word He said yesterday holds true NOW and forever.
Lack of knowledge is always cause for destruction in all fields of manx life….not ONLY IN THE SPRITUAL..
So when the wise God says His people perish for lack of knowledge we should take it seriously..but when went on further and said HE WILL REJECT THOSE WHO REJECT KNOWLEDGE…we must real.cause for concern.
It is very possible a greater part of what is called CHURCH is rejected by GOD…and operate on self effort.
No wonder we dont see much of the Book of Acts works in our midst.
Pride is our undoing.
Joe Absher
Pride is a creeper
Isara Mo
Troy Day
In the Medical or Engineering profession it is easier to know when the pros are REJECTED….
Professional misconduct will lead to licences revocation or if it is grave even imprisonment.
Not so in out Pentecostal Theology or similar arts ..
Pros can teach and teach and teach and preach and preach and preach year in year out and with no genuine outcome but they WILL STILL go on and on unhindered, unquestioned …and yet The Lord Jesus had said believers will cast out demons and heal.the sick..and of Him, JESUS, it is written //
Great crowds came to him, bringing the lame, the blind, the crippled, the mute and many others, and laid them at his feet; and he healed them. The people were amazed when they saw the mute speaking, the crippled made well, the lame walking and the blind seeing. And they praised the God of Israel.
Matthew 15:30-31 NIV//
There is a verse in Col which says in Him Jesus are HIDDEN ALL THE TREASURES OF WISDOM.AND KNOWLEDGE..
We really need KNOWLEDGE…
Joe Absher
Colossians 2:3 KJV — In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
Colossians 2:10 KJV — And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Waiting on the train just now. Have to get back to you
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo late for class again ?
Isara Mo
Troy Day
Not at all.
I had listened to Perry Stones teaching on the 5 signs of demonic possession about 8 hours ago and was ruminating on the Gadarenes demon possessed man.
Perry says the Gadarenes demon possesed man had a will but when I read through the incident it seems, to me, the demon possessed man had no will of his own.
I dont think it was the man who WILLINGFULLY ran to meet Jesus but it was the legion inside the man which ran to meet Jesus..(my interpretation).
For it was not the man who asked Jesus the question ” have you come to torment us before our time?”” but it was the 2000 demons inside of the man who spoke.
The man was completely out of his mind so it was not possible for him to recognize Jesus..
Only after the demons left the man did he regain his sanity and put on his clothes and began to talk with Jesus.
So I beg to differ with Perry on that point but as to the five signs of demonic possession which he had touched upon I concur
However i would like to say that a lot of people are demon possessed or demon vexed or demon oppressed and DO NOT SHOW ANY TELL TALE SIGNS…of demonic possession.
The Gadarenes case was an extreme case of demonic possession but most of the times demons just bury themselves deep into a person snd do their things silently..
Jesus cast out demons from many people who didnt show any out ward sign of possession.
Eg in Mark when he entered the synagogue it is said that a man with a demon cried out “What have we to do with you Son of the Most High ?” There was no outward sign..
The woman with a bent back whom Satan had bound for 17 years was healed of her afflication and I dont believe she knew she had a spirit of infirmity…
There is no common list of SIGNS or SYMPTOMS of demonic oppression or possession for that matter so each teacher might come up with their list as Perry had done.
I have had very strange encounters in deliverance where a person would seem.very very normal and yet go bersek during prayers…with demons shouting and shrieking or sometimes laughing so much aloud to deceive even the one ministering.
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo so how so you think ALL this related to the case study proposed to us by Joe Absher
Joe Absher
My prayers are that the truth will come out. Not to expose wickedness or find fault but that souls may be helped and free and washed in the blood of Jesus Christ.
Do you have anything else on this case study Mr Day
Isara Mo
Troy Day
I had asked a question in my post of last week IS THE WAR OVER and barely five people responded to the question showing how doctrinal errors are giving the devil a holiday.
Joes case study is proof of ongoing battles IN and OUT of human beings.
Isara Mo
Joe Absher
I had seen your remark about the men on board of trustees trying to control the church which Mr.Day didnt respond to..
Spirits are spirits and control can.be thru men or women alike..
Joe Absher
“Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
– Matthew 26:41
Some battles are unknown to men but known to God. A lot of things can make a man tired and weary.
I preached this morning on “watch and pray” and against spirit of heaviness and slumber. Sin will deceive you, and pull you off your objective
Louise Cummings
(1) foul Spirit. , like the casting himself into the fire. Mark (9:25).
Louise Cummings
Unclean spirits, Matthew 10:1. Jesus Gary be His Twelve Disciples Power to cast out unclean spirits to cast them out. All manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
Louise Cummings
Spirit of fear. 2nd Timothy 1:7. I But God has not given us the spirit of fear: but of power, and love, and a sound mind.
Louise Cummings
Seducing spirits1 st Timothy 4:1. Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the Faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrine of devils (2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy, : having their conscience seared with a hot iron ( I feel there is so much of it going on today my thoughts).
Isara Mo
Louise Cummings
I think seducing spirits, familiar spirits and deceiving spirits are in league…
Louise Cummings
Spiritual infirmity, Luke 13:11. And , behold , there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity. eighteen years. And was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself 12- A d when Jesus saw her , He called her to Him.and said unto her , Woman , you are loosed from your infirmity.
Varnel Watson
Ricky Grimsley Perry is setting the records straight here Very Biblical exposition and almost surprisingly great exegesis
Isara Mo
Troy Day
The converts did the right thing by burning artifacts or articles associated with their former gods.
It is Biblical and very spritual in that the exercise of burning an occultic object sever off the satanic umblical cord which attached itself to a person because of past demonic convenant.
It is not barbaric…
Evil altar destruction is also Biblical and there is great symbolism of victory when you physically burn down or pull down an erected evil altar…
Gideon did that..
In the Book of Acts people brought books they used in black magic and burned them…at conversion.
The altar of God cannot co exist with the altar of Satan…
Louise Cummings
Troy Day was I was just going to say that was a good point
RichardAnna Boyce
a person under demonic possession MUST be an unbeliever. It CANNOT apply to believers.
Joe Absher
If you mean to obey God get rid of your fetishes and renounce your idolatry
RichardAnna Boyce
Only obedience required by God is to BELIEVE in Jesus to be guaranteed eternal life 🙂
Isara Mo
RichardAnna Boyce
Ananias and Safira were believers…
RichardAnna Boyce
Isara Mo yes and they are in heaven now. No mention of hell or eternal damnation. God can prematurely end a believer’s life for their own redemption and in this case redemption of the early church.
Louise Cummings
I answered that one.
Louise Cummings
I answered I think in his place. So I erased. I will try to answer again. It had his name there. I waited. And nobody answered. So I thought he must be waiting. I knew that when I wrote a word. I would look back it would be something else. I guess if there is a name there. In never suppose to write there. Sometimes I think they are waiting for me to answer.
Louise Cummings
I was saying I don’t believe that an unclean spirit can live in a decided Christian. Because both can’t live in the same temple. You are either Christian , or you are not. You can get Luke warm. Then Jesus said He would spue them out. I used an old saying. You can’t straddle the fence. You are either in or out. Or get spued out. Devils can’t live in Christians.
Link Hudson
Can sin dwell in the heart of a Christian?
Louise Cummings
Where is the Scriptures I have been writing down. Yes we do things sometimes I would consider sin. But as soon as I am aware of it. I need to go to the Lord then and ask God to forgive me. I am always asking God to forgive me. Because I know I fail Him. When Jesus Disciples came to Jesus and ask Him to teach them to pray as John taught His Disciples to pray. He told them to say Our Father Who Art in Heaven. Hallowing be Thy Name. And forgive our debts as we forgive those that are indebted to us.( I said that to say this. We are still in the flesh. We are going to fight battles with the devil as long as we live. We might wrong about some one. They might say something to us that hurt us. We could hold grudges against someone. That’s sin. So Jesus taught us to pray. Ask God to forgive us. As we forgive them. But we can’t keep living in sin after becoming a Christian. Sin has no control over us. That’s where Sanctification comes in. It help us not to do people wrong. But if we pray and live as close to The Lord as we can. We won’t have that desire to sin. If it gets to where we want sin. Means we are slipping, and we better recognize it and get it under The Blood.
Louise Cummings
Where did the other scripture go.
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo I still thing the case study applies strongly
Isara Mo
Troy Day
Let me re study and will revert
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo oh boy – you already had your 3 tries 🙂
Isara Mo
Troy Day
If the demonic was that easy to understand we wouldnt have the problem in our hands 2000 years after the SOLUTION was given us..
So it very possible our understanding of the subject is still just too puny ..or possibly the devil has fooled everyone that he is chained and bound ..that is why there is so much disharmony around..
If in that of state of defeat , bound and chained and helpless as soldier Charles Page says(havent heard of brother Charles Page for quiet sometime now..) he can cause such havoc what if he was ” loose”
So there is need for me to re study the case over and over…
3 tries arent enough
Varnel Watson
Dr. Paul L. King I read your comments on the case study proposed by Joe Absher I do not believe a person can self-deliver under the said spirits consisting on attacking them. I do not believe it was simply external oppression if internal depression occurred in the persons heart AND I further call on much deeper investigation of the HSB experienced claimed than Isara Mo – not to show any doubt JUST to make sure the said spirit is NOT manipulating the church from the inside In the said case study case I do not accept Link Hudson open revelation interpretation on tongues vs prophecy I find it unbased on the Bible and very poorly presented as theology of the ap. Paul – Paul never meant for such interpretation to be applied in Jezebel spirit cases seeking control over the ministry of the church as clearly showin in Acts ch. 16
Joe Absher
Evil spirits wanting to hinder, control, manipulate and deceive the church body is a given
Isara Mo
Joe Absher
That is THEIR MISSION and it ia easy to understand yet many dont accept that simple fact because of deception..
Varnel Watson
high ground – their turf – canyon ambush – ALL military tactics
they are MILITANT demons going for the gut and the soul – always COnTROL brings you to their grounds to fight at familiar places
demon DISPLACEMENT is a must – on the case study she was closed to the pastor for some 30 yrs
not sure how he did not see the demon in her Joe Absher
Isara Mo
Troy Day
Militant is the correct word for these demons.
The primary purpose or goal of ANY warfare, or any ARMY, spritual or otherwise , is CONTROL…
The stronger army defeats and controls his foe..He controls and area..a territory…
No one army can operate effectively in enemy territory until.they take TOTAL CONTROL…of the enemys territory..
Displacement MUST precede CONTROL..TOTAL CONTROL.
Demons know human beings, human.beings dont know demons and I just wonder how can an army fight an enemy they have no knowledge of..utterly impossible.
Joe Absher says people are afraid to engage the enemy in personal levels…they are afraid of personal conflict.
Nobody likes or loves war..
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo lets talk about it
I’ve had some time to evaluate
HOW EASY it is for the church to believe and accept jezebels – i feel its important
seems you overlooked the details knowing of the spirits goes with wisdom some call it departure other displacement – As in other deliverances, This display that accompanies
the departure of the demon spirits can vary widely. In
my own experience, as soon as I would address the
demon I would feel a pressure in my throat followed by
coughing and bringing up of phlegm. There would then
be a perceptible release that the thing was out. Some
individuals are able to accomplish this with greater
confidence and aggressiveness than others.This author again supposes the power of demons is fear. It seems to me a very humanist approach. If I may id like to say the power and bondage of the devil is sin and rebellion to God. When a man is made righteous by faith in Jesus Christ the power and curse of sin is broken. And thus the deceiver and foe displaced. The burden of guilt and shame is rolled away he has assurance and liberty, joy and strength by grace through faith that is in Jesus Christ.
Joe Absher
Most folks just aren’t ready for spiritual conflict on a personal level
Isara Mo
Joe Absher
E Studd called them ” chocholate soldiers”
It is so frustrating to see someone who knows the truth and acts or does contrary to truth Joe..
Varnel Watson
Through unmerited, undeserved favor, God has given us authority to do the same things that Jesus did during His earthly ministry. Those things include supernatural acts like healing the sick, raising the dead, and casting out demons. We may see ourselves as ordinary people, but if we are to use this authority we have been given, we must change the way we see ourselves. This power is given to every born-again Believer through God’s love and grace. Jesus commanded His disciples to use this authority by preaching the gospel, healing the sick, raising the dead, cleansing lepers, and casting out demons You simply have to exercise your authority. Jesus has already done everything necessary to secure the authority and power over sin, sickness, demons, and fear. You have to employ the faith action to receive that authority and join forces with Him in this earth. You are the one to be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
This is referring to demonic powers. There’s a chain of command, an authority structure in the demonic realm, and this is listing these different levels. But notice that it says you are not wrestling against flesh and blood. Much that goes on in your life is not just human.
I’m not going to get into this thing about, “Are people possessed, oppressed, or depressed?” I believe it’s useless to debate that. In the Greek, where the Bible says a person was demon possessed, the word literally means “demonized.” It just means they were under the control of the devil. Christianity has tried to make something out of possessed, oppressed, or depressed. But it’s not in Scripture.
The fact is that people are being influenced and controlled and used by the devil—they really are. This needs to be said because there are a lot of people who honestly believe that all the demons are in Africa.
Here are hindrances to advance in the field
work. Mohammedanism meets us with bigotry
and jealousy; paganism with fear and haired;
ignorance binds the heathen mind in darkness
that seems impenetrable. Fierce attacks, such
as recently occurred in French West Africa, fall
upon the workers, and some are cut off.
Dissension-, rise in the ranks of brethren, and
the Spirit of peace withdraws. Behind every
such situation the presence of the same malign
powers can be assumed The solution is in their
displacement we alone are to blame that they
continue in power.
The same principle is often applicable in
personal evangelism. A soul under conviction
has great difficulty in grasping the truth, or in
yielding to it. His mind is blinded and bound. A
quiet attitude of victory over the opposing
spirits has often brought swift release. A
Filipino student was suspected of lying, but
was resolutely standing by his falsehood.
Quietly the position was taken: “In the name of
the Lord, I rebuke these lying spirits.” Suddenly
the student broke down, confessed, and wept
his way through to victory.
Nor can any believer escape this conflict, so
long as he resolutely presses forward in the
pursuit of true holiness and effective ministry. It
is part of the training of the Lord’s overcoming
people. In the Kingdom Age, Christ has
planned that they shall reign with Him from the
heavenly places over the earth. It is
consequently not strange that the principalities
and powers, who are to be dispossessed of the
seats of authority now occupied by
themselves, should savagely resist their own
displacement. These spiritual enemies oppose
every forward step of the overcomer; they will
seek to confuse his mind, sometimes drawing
him into error, or into extravagance in doctrine.
They may even attack him in body, or in
circumstances, or through his family or his
friends.
Many an earnest pastor weeps before the Lord
because of coldness or disunion in his
congregation. The successful evangelist is
disturbed by some deadening influence
creeping into the atmosphere of his meetings,
by which his liberty of spirit is hampered, and
by which souls are hindered from coming to
the Savior. In many cases prayer does not
seem to touch the difficulty, even when long
continued. Nay, even prayer itself seems to be
lifeless, and God afar off. At times the enemy
strikes back swiftly when some special effort is
aimed against him. Workers break down,
sickness weakens the frame, spiritual purpose
slackens, and discouragement throws a pall of darkness that depresses every effort for the
Lord. Such experiences are far from
uncommon, as many will testify.
Joe Absher
Thank you for posting about these hindrances in gospel ministry
Varnel Watson
Joe Absher YEs still waiting on Isara Mo to re-re-view the case study and proceed to further discussion
Isara Mo
Troy Day
You have said something very important in the post above..”We MUST change how we view ourselves”
Very unfortunately our views are affected by what we are taught and what we study and practise and the outcome of these teachings are strongholds.A stronghold is a tough, hard to break or penetrate barricade and if it is INSIDE A MAN.. bet .you can blow away his head but the stronghold will still remain. Yes.
If for example I am taught that a Christian cannot have a demon it will take a caterpillar to remove that stronghold in me even if the evidences or proofs of demonic oppression or influence are put before me or operate within me.Such is the danger of warped viewpoint which comes from wrong doctrines.
Way back in 1993 in my pursuit for TRUTH i met a certain group which taught me that I have never been born nor will I ever die and that death was an just illusion.
They also taught me that there is no such thing as a creator God and that I was “God” and everything around me was God and I believed their teachings..
There was no mention of sin or heaven or satan or hell.It was so cool.No demons.
The objective of that groups teaching was what was called ” self realization”.To seek thru meditation to ” realise” that ALL ALONG I am God but didnt know it.
That was a mixed group of some well.educated Christians and some well educated Muslims who had their religions but ” left” them for this new truth and we ALL believed ALL that we we were taught. I was one of those fanatics of that teaching.
Our SPRITUAL VIEWPOINTS at the time were fundamentally shaped by the teachings we received from initiates and adepts of the group…
A changeover of my previous viewpoint to the current one did not come easy.
God let me dwell in that deception for over ten years and even when he intervened in my situation to teach me the REAL TRUTH it really took me quiet some time to accept it and I always lapsed into my former teachings until one day I had demons cast our of me, one of my religious background and another from that cultic impartation. Only then did I begin to change my view point.
Because of what I had experienced in the past I always TRY TO AVOID human wisdom and knowledge if possuble for if more than ten years I accepted and believed a lie and lived it, I am striving to be vigilant that am not trapped or misled in another lie however sweet and sound it may be in my ears.
There is lot of doctrinal incompatability between various schools within the Christian faith and this makes me wonder perhaps people have different “Holy Spirits”…A teacher from God cannot teach a lie: a man who claims to be from God can.
It is written that the Holy Spirit will TEACH ..ALL THINGS…and very sure He, the Spirit of God KNOWS more about demons than any other person that is why He did an arrest of that demonized lady at Joe Absher’s church.
The Bible is very explicit about the existence of demons. They are there..Even common sense can vouschafe they exist..
Jesus cast them out and instructed his disciples to do the same and there is AMPLE PROOF they did.
It is my belief Troy Day unless and until the church reviews their viewpoints (strongholds)on demonology, the church will still operate in weakness and defeat amidst such a violent world.
We have too much eloquence and sophistry in ministry work instead of fireworks and gunpowder
Perhaps my viewpoint regarding deliverance and warfare is askew but I would I would rather have this askew viewpoint on warfare and move than lapse into false comfort and die.
After saying all the above, I would like to finally say this:
The RE RE VIEW of the Joe Absher case study brings to light the TRUTH that Christians do have demons and these demons MUST BE CAST OUT..
Romans 12:2 speaks of MIND RE KNEWING..
May God help those soldiers who are honestly and constantly striving to overcome misconceptions and misguided doctrines on deliverance and warfare such that the majority of the misled can be brought to realities of life and put on their war outfit and go into battle.
The verse “we struggle against principalities” is not talking about a Principal in the order of a secondary school but it talks of the highest order of a satanic military hierachy..
War for a true believer is unavoidable.
A real.soldier will tell you that there is no sentiment in war.
The enemy will.always go for the jugular vein and in.the case of the believer the jugular vein is the MIND….
If the enemy manages to blind a believers mind to the realities of warfare thru false doctrines he will easily kill his prey and eat his flesh.
Not my flesh, not my blood.
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo I usually have many important things But what is YOUR new take on the case study after review
Isara Mo
Troy Day
Simple.
God operates thru the Holy Spirit we all know that.
Through whom does the devil operate?
Jezebel…
And by what force or power does Jezebel.operate?
Simple: by wicthcraft in ALL ITS FORMS especially false teaching and preaching..
Thats my take not a NEW ONE but an old one..unchanging.
There is no middle way although there might be a half caste annointing as was the case with Balaam…
Case closed i guess
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo UPDATE Joe Absher the said lady has quit coming to church again from what I hear now
Isara Mo
Troy Day
It is very possible she had ill motives against the church..
When Simon the sorcerer converted he was not delivered of the spirit of witchcraft and wanted to buy spritual gifts but Peter rebuked him and told him ” you have no part in this ministry…”
If the lady had quit after applauding the glory of God in public I might tentatively say she had not been delivered totally ..and possibly lapsed into her former state.
Louise Cummings
The devihad no anointing from God. He used his own. He wasn’t allowed to use it , in many ways unless God allowed it. But what he does I’d deceive as many as he can. If you are a born again believer , he has no power or authority over you. Unless you give in. Because he is going to try. But God gave you Authority to cast him aside through Jesus Name.
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo I would like to again cover this issue by saying her personal motives as a person count for little if STILL under demonization Under such condition the person is lead by the demons agenda as it was my initial assessment At the same time I have been careful NOT to classify any Holy Spirit activities and actions as demonic which will be the unpardonable sin BUT I cannot recognize there is no Holy Ghost involvement in this particular case study case
Isara Mo
Troy Day
You are quiet right
Varnel Watson
what would YOUR approach be? Isara Mo
Isara Mo
Troy Day
A demonic manifestation is not a solution but an indicator.
To get to the ROOT CAUSE or ROOT PROBLEM would be the priority.
We dont get EVERYTHING BY DISCERNMENT ..
Most of the times God wants people to use their minds..
A thorough Q&A session with the lady after the initial manifestation would have given.the deliverance minister areas to deal with..
So with discernment we have to use detection just as an electrician would use his tester to trace an eletrical fault.
A joint prayer partnership with the lady ie the minister should go on a fast and prayer session with the lady to seek from the Lord a revelation, an answer, an indicator is another way.
A stubborn spirit who doesnt budge under authority usually have legal holds on the person so it is advisable to tell the deliveree that the key to their deliverance is with them.not with God or the deliverance minister: they either come up with an open confession or remain with their secrets and end up undelivered.
That would be my approach
Louise Cummings
Isara Mo. I couldn’t ever figure out you was referring to here. But I don’t know if it was on something here or I read it in a long article. About Assembly of God. And it used the man’s name that was held in Florida. It used the pastors name. I can’t think of it now. But he is doing more preaching now. I probably misunderstood the whole thing. But I thought it was coming from questions from what had been said from here. Maybe from one of my answers. But it looked like it was putting out learning articles to went off before I got it all read. If it didn’t come from here I’m sorry for bringing it up.
Robert Erwine
magic isn’t real
Varnel Watson
says you – the die hard Harry Potter fan
Robert Erwine
Troy Day first off I am far from being a harry potter fan, shows how much you think you know me
Varnel Watson
Robert Erwine OK then you are a secret harry potter fan 🙂
Robert Erwine
Troy Day not a fan in secret either .
Varnel Watson
Robert Erwine ok now you are being secretive
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo what would be your approach be to the new developments in our case study as presented by Joe Absher
Joe Absher
Considering I know little to nothing on this “case study” I would recommend an actual case study from the Bible
Varnel Watson
Joe Absher well maybe you can point us to one
Joe Absher
https://youtu.be/oZQbuVTjHlw
Varnel Watson
Joe Absher love it Now if Melvin Harter only uploads the tent revival videos on his YouTube channel
Isara Mo
Joe Absher
Blessed are you.
Isara Mo
Joe Absher
Raw bone sermon.
Loved chewing it.
Not many such raw bone sermons we hear today.
People have plastic teeth…
Joe Absher
Help us Lord Jesus
Louise Cummings
Great answer. I know it’s the devil that fights against us that makes us think we can’t because Jesus has already told us to do that. I pray for people like that. But we can’t let doubt come to our minds, is it going to happen. Because The Lord has already givens the authority to do it inHis Name. I believe in it. Every Word. Thank
Louise Cummings
We use these gifts in our church. We preach and teach this. And Miracles come. And I have prayed that God use me like this. We have prayer , I would say in every service , unless there’s none that comes for prayer. God has healed me of serious. I know it’s real. I could write a page in just what God has done just in our family. I give God all thanks, Honor, and Glory. But I can’t give excuses. It’s my fault I’m sure I don’t see it every time. Sometimes my prayer day just hadn’t been just as good as other times. But I believe what the Word says. And we should practice it.
Varnel Watson
on going case study Isara Mo Joe Absher
Isara Mo
Troy Day
I thought the case study is closed now.
Joes suggestion is best: bring a Biblical case study now.
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo a bit late again – but still love to discuss it There has been NEW develpoments on it Maybe we need to set up a new topic just for that
Isara Mo
Troy Day .
Bring it…the new topic but you know there is NOTHING NEW under the sun regarding demons?
We dont need tp discuss them.but cast them.out..
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo I agree This one was interesting to me on the part of the church being mislead too many times