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In John 7:39, it states that there were already people believing in Him before being given the Holy Spirit. How can this be since the Holy Spirit needs to be indwelling in a person in order to regenerate a believer?
Anonymous
now thatS a great one Link Hudson Michael Chauncey Neil Steven Lawrence
In John 7:39, it states that there were already people believing in Him before being given the Holy Spirit. How can this be since the Holy Spirit needs to be indwelling in a person in order to regenerate a believer?
for what you asked before on this Nelson Banuchi
and you maybe Steve Losee
theologically Duane L Burgess
johannine John Mushenhouse
missional Joseph D. Absher
dispensational Oscar Valdez
some AG related Terry Wiles
realRevival Larry Dale Steele
for your cog interest in ACTS commentary Peter Vandever
#TULSAking relative š Joseph Castillo
for your grannie Philip Williams
for your past pentecost Kyle Williams
just because Brett Dobbs Jim Price James Pinkerton
Jeffrey Snyder NOT really for Dan Anthony IMHO
Anonymous
Troy Day but we aināt Calvinists.
Anonymous
the context is living waters as a bridge ,Notice the whoever believes in 7:38 believes is a present participle continues to believe will get it (John 20)– Not given yet – 39These were all commended for their faith, yet they did not receive what was promised. 40God had planned something better for us, so that together with us they would be made perfect. Hebrews 11– the john passage is how they will be saved . Believes in me (Jesus as the object of salvation acts 4:12 )John is writing from a post John 20 view and connecting the water poured at the feast of tabernacles with the outpouring on Pentecost. It is interesting that in John 4 Living Water is a picture of Jesus and here in John 7 Living Water is a picture of the Holy Spirit === At the time Jesus gave this promise, the New Covenant had not been inaugurated, but it would be by His death, burial and resurrection. Then the OT New Covenant promise of Ezekiel would be fulfilled – “Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.” (Ezek 36:26-27) This promise was fulfilled after the resurrection. Troy I could not begin to explain or give justice to this scripture as neither time or space or off the top of my head is ample for such a great promise. But we need to see this in context with the promises, the John 4 meeting, John 7 and acts 2. Perhaps brother Joseph D. Absher can give his insight into this.
Anonymous
Philip Williams what art thee?
Anonymous
John Mushenhouse hope not living waters as a bridge builder
Anonymous
Troy Day He used the feast of the tabernacles as the bridge – They poured water on the last day of the feast. Hope yes but Jesus was linking the old testament rituals and its fulfillment in the New Covenant.
Anonymous
Being “given the Holy Spirit” is, I believe, what happened in John 20:21 & 22. That would have been the “Spirit WITHIN. IN Acts 2, they experienced the Spirit UPON (Acts 1:8). However, neither of these suggests that His Majesty was inactive before those times. The list in Hebrews 11 is entirely Old Testament BELIEVERS who accomplished various things BY FAITH. He can inspire faith whenever He wants to, our theology textbooks notwithstanding. Of course, nobody has to agree with me, either. š
Anonymous
John Mushenhouse interesting. Do you see it as 2nd blessing too?
Anonymous
Steve Losee TRUE also the role of HS in Pentecostal hermeneutics https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/the-holy-spirit-and-the-bible-the-spirits-interpreting-role-in-relation-to-biblical-hermeneutics/
Anonymous
It seems to me that the Bible shows people believing in Jesus before the Spirit was given (Matthew 8:13; John 2:11; John 4:41 cf. John 7:39).
Anonymous
Nelson Banuchi were they baptized in the SPIRIT too?
Anonymous
Of course not
Anonymous
Protestants and Pentecostals believe in the ordo salutusā¦ ļæ¼
as confirmed and seen in Scripture.
The Holy Spirit acts in:
1. drawing the believer to the Father;
2. and justification of the believer;
3. and regeneration and new birth of the believer;
4. a sealing of the believer for heaven;
5. a maturation of the believer unto sanctification;
6. a baptism in the Holy Spirit of the believer;
7. and continuous and subsequent ļæ¼ Holy Spirit in-fillings of the believer.
8. The Holy Spirit also helps the believer to maintain perseverance until the end of life on earth. ļæ¼
These are the things off the top of my head the Holy Spirit does in the āorder of salvation.ā All of these can be shown in ļæ¼scripture. ļæ¼
Anonymous
Acts records the historical transition as God’s work moved from ethnic national Israel to the Gentiles. But the ministry of the Holy Spirit beginning at Pentecost is to indwell the believer immediately, at the moment of salvation.
This is God’s sovereign work in us in the Church.
While God may do a work in select individuals during their redeemed life, there is no such thing as a “second blessing.”
Anonymous
Duane L Burgess what about the question from JOHN here?
Anonymous
I wouldn’t presume to add to the scholarship but I’m willing to have the conversation.
Anonymous
The disciples believed in Jesus before receiving the baptism of the Spirit. So did some in the book of Acts.
Anonymous
Philip Williams how do you mean?
Anonymous
Troy Day āWhen they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.ā Actsā¬ ā8ā¬:ā15ā¬-ā17ā¬
Anonymous
“In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”
– John 7:37-39
Jesus is the baptizer in the Holy Ghost!!! What was a prophecy of Christ is today a promise of Christ. at the cross in the giving of his life and shedding of his blood Jesus made a way for sinners to draw near a Holy God. In Gods will and plan for our salvation and justification the wonderful promise of the Holy Spirit is given. the gracious and only wise God not only touches our life and guides our life but abides in our life, “..lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.”
The result is great joy and peace in believing. the Holy Spirit flows from the belly or inmost part of a life made new . Born again, converted, translated from darkness to light and from death to life. The work of the Holy Spirit brings the horror and misery of conviction to fruition and it becomes assurance and victory in heartfelt repentance.
Secondly, what a comfort and strength it is when our labour is in him. When we bear witness when we testify when we give or when we pray the Holy Spirit enables us and grants that unspeakable something we call effective ministry. by grace through faith . Peace .
Anonymous
Joseph D. Absher what about the present active participle use of believes (7:38) in the pericope and the other times in John when it was claimed they believed. I agree that one can’t take John 7:39 out of its context but 37-39 and actually John 2, 4 and the OT prophecies and Feast of tabernacles rituals. I think the use of the present participle does answer the question in the OP about not what salvation is but can people believe in Jesus before receiving the Holy Spirit. Of course the believed in 39 is aorist participle – having believed being just the action occurs before the main verb but not brought to fruition because the conditions for receiving was hot yet accomplished so the believes in 7:38 details the repeated belief when the conditions were fulfilled. Just a brief dabbling in the pericope.
Anonymous
I believe it is very simply understood in the baptism of the Holy Ghost
Anonymous
I left this discussion for exactly 24 hours John Mushenhouse
Came back to check on what ppl came up with
Not surprise most who commented have not a clue