Click to join the conversation with over 500,000 Pentecostal believers and scholars
Click to get our FREE MOBILE APP and stay connected
Link Hudson | PentecostalTheology.com
Beast’s Religion Mix of Pentecostalism and Liberalism?
I saw a posting a while back about some kind of church that was supposed to be Pentecostal that had a falsely so-called ‘married’ ‘gay’ ‘pastor’. There are apparently ‘churches’ out there that accept Pentecostal or Charismatic teaching and cultural packaging that promote homosexual perversion. At first, this was a major contradiction to me. I wondered how anyone could tolerate the incongruency.
I wonder if we will see a religion that merges the non-Bible-believing forms of liberalism, including ‘progressive’ beliefs that currently promote homosexual behavior under the guise of social justice. Some individuals who hold to these views may not see the resurection of Christ as a physical event, but as a ‘spiritual experience’ of the disciples.
But Satan is an imitator. For decades, we have seen preachers who accept certain Pentecostal (and Charismatic) distinctives whose teaching promotes greed. There are preachers divorcing and remarrying who don’t seem to face much inquiry from those they lead about it, and others falling into other types of sexual immorality.
The Bible warns of decievers coming in Jesus’ name, and of lying signs and wonders. Could this come (partly) through a false kind of Pentecostalism, that borrows some of the cultural packaging mixed with error and apostacy? Could the religion of the Beast and the false prophet in Revelation incorporate aspects of an apostate false Pentecostolism?
Dan Irving
It’s already here, Link, and its seeking Pentecostal manifestations, and apparently finding them. Watch the first 16 min. of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5hxnA799Tg
Scotty Searan
What started at the beginning of the 20th was real. I believe there are still some real Pentecostals and Holiness believers in our churches but they are in the minority now Most Pentecostal/Holiness denominations want growth and they are Seeker-friendly. I am not debating. People may call me legalistic. But I believe what the Pentecostal/Holiness from 1900-1950 should be practiced today. That was where the great evangelists, such as Oral Roberts, T.L. Lowery, A.A. Allen and even Billy Graham got their spiritual zeal and power to evangelize. They preached against worldliness, Yes they set rules to go by. But they got those rules and beliefs from many hours of praying and seeking Gods face. They didn’t have education. They were not wise by men’s standards. By men’s standards they were considered foolish and unlearned, the same thing that was thought about the Apostles, even Jesus Christ. But the People knew when they heard them preach, they had been with God. But television came along and rock ‘n’ roll was born out of the Pentecostal/Holiness churches. That’s common history. The old time preacher men preached against both TV and the worldly music. I could go on, because I have talked about it before and the people know I am telling the truth. But they don’t want to here it. They don’t want to give up their idols and sinful lifestyle. You may call me a fool. So be it. I’m not in the race for the most numbers. I just want someone who will run with me and endure hardness as a soldier. Just look at your churches are they really ready to meet God? I would love to be wrong on what I am going to say. If the Rapture happened today, Less 25% would go up, by at least what I am observing in churches I have seen and what little bit I watch Christian TV. Get the worldliness out.
Robert Borders
People are people just like in the church at Corinth. Probably all Pentecostal churches of significant size have members that are gay, pedophiles, adulterers, addicts, or just sinners in general. This often includes pastors or other church leaders. Many mass murderers through the years had been valued church members. People still want to encounter God and may even speak in tongues regardless of sexual orientation or other habits.
Varnel Watson
Robert Borders Dont you think it is probably time for some posters in this group to begin distinguishing between Pentecostal and Charismatic theology. I am not aware of any and I mean ANY Pentecostal church promoting gay culture in the described way. Charismatic (like Hillsong) maybe but Pentecostal – hardly. This OP goes against every fundamental belief within our Pentecostal Theology http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/timeline-clarification-and-statement-on-the-hillsong-gay-choir-director/
Link Hudson
Anyone could call himself Pentecostal.
Here’s an example, if this is legit, of a group that uses ‘Pentecostal’.
https://obnoxioustelevision.com/2015/05/15/keith-mcqueen-opens-the-first-black-gay-pentacostal-church-in-indianapolis/
Varnel Watson
What a are great source for #fakenews
Jonathan Julius
Great great these r the points that should be hilighted thanks to u …
Link Hudson
Troy Day, according to this site, a pastor and his ‘first gentleman’ were adopting a baby. http://justicebahlee.blogspot.co.id/2013/04/bishop-oc-allen-iii-and-his-first.html
There is a link, alledgedly, to the church’s website. The site calls the church a part of the “United Progressive Pentecostal Church”.
http://www.thevisionchurch.org/about/
Apparently, the head of this church, started the organization with the word ‘Pentecostal’ in it:
http://guardianlv.com/2014/07/gay-pastor-opens-church-after-no-love-from-traditional-church-video/
I suppose someone could sue over the misuse of the word ‘Pentecostal’, but the majority of the Supreme Court had difficulty understanding what ‘marriage’ is when the issue came up previously.
Varnel Watson
Link Hudson Like bro Robert Borders already said: I don’t know of Pentecostal churches that promote this but persons with problems inhabit both pulpits and pews in many churches. It directly contradicts Pentecostal theology. It’s probably some hyper charismatic bapticostal theology that does not recognize and has never fully included the Spirit guided personal experience of Entire Sanctification. The problem is that you freely promoted it as Pentecostal – now that’s #fakenews
Varnel Watson
Listen to your drill sergeant – Dont stir sin again in your life đ
Wayne Scott
Didn’t the downward slid start when we replaced “No one born of God sins” (I John 3:9) with “Everyone born of God sins?”
This is when we had to reject I John 3:7 and accept “imputed righteousness” as a covering for ongoing sins. Once we go there, how can we tell the homosexual that his ongoing sins are not covered?
Varnel Watson
“ongoing sins” are hardly what John meant when he said “No one born of God sins” (I John 3:9)
Wayne Scott
Then what did he mean if not that they have repented biblically as defined in Ezek 18:21-32? I don’t get your point.
Varnel Watson
Do you make difference between New and Old Testament and the Atoning Sacrifice of Jesus on the cross? Most Calvinists still believe the OT nomos-law is in power and Christians are under it’s legal obligatory principles (while they deny generational curses – beats me Robert Borders ?)
Wayne Scott
I believe Christianity is supposed to be a continuation of the salvation taught by God’s prophets, which is that of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, none of whom taught that God cannot forgive without animal or human blood sacrifice.
Varnel Watson
Using his purely bapticostal approach to theology Link Hudson has too reached the conclusion that mixed Pentecostal (ie Charismatic Theology) + liberal philosophy is forming the all inclusive “religion” of the last days Beast Enter Hillsong, Bethel, etc – exit Pentecost …
Varnel Watson
Link Hudson I agree old time Baptist are conservative but pls follow the news brother. This aint old time Baptists we are talking about anymore http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/white-supremacy-resolution-causes-chaos-with-southern-baptist/ Bro Jim Daniel John Calvin said the 2 horns of the beast are the Catholic church and Islam. He was not that wrong if you think about it
Gregory Rogers
It amazes me that Spirit-filled people cannot see the extreme error of homosexuality. Yes, the older Pentecostal preachers would be turning in their graves. Shows how the light of so many Western churches has gradually dimmed in past decades.
Varnel Watson
Scotty Searan is this what you were trying to impress on Jim Price with your rightful statement ? Seems we’ve discussed it here back in the day Dan Irving may have a good video about it
Varnel Watson
Jim Daniel https://scontent.ftpa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27072468_1577082725716436_2458416268265692761_n.jpg?oh=52bd2cbd8028dd4f84c0c1cbfe5cfc86&oe=5AE2C8FB
Varnel Watson
There is absolutely no Biblical evidence that antiCrhist will be a Muslim Jim Daniel Ricky Grimsley As a matter of fact Islam did not exist till 4–5-6 centuries the last book of the Bible was written. There is not a single verse in the Bible that mentions anything about Islam. Not even the pale horse in the Revelation
Diana Kay Miller Sheek
They are not true Christians that uphold things against nature and God’s Word.
Bill Terrell
Wolves in sheep clothing,wheat will grow with Tare but there will be a time of separation.
Gregory Rogers
Maybe separation is the key. In a sense separation starts now
The Bride must seek to keep separate from the world and make herself pure.
What do we do when the church embraces sickening levels of sin?
Do we fight or withdraw? Or a combination of the two?
I think the true church needs to draw together and discuss this.
Varnel Watson
Not sure where Pentecostalism came into this thread. The liberals argument as it stands makes absolutely no sense Randal The Beast is closer to Eastern Orthodox than any others
Varnel Watson
Hey Randal W Deese Not sure where Pentecostalism came into this Link but The liberals argument as it stands makes absolutely no theoogical sense The Beast is closer to Eastern Orthodox than any others – has been since about AD 310 and it will always be in the symphony between state and church promoted by Orthodoxy
Randal W Deese
What theological nonsenseâŚ
Link Hudson
Not sure why I am tagged on this.
Varnel Watson
well Randal isnt it true that many byzantine emperors were seen as antiChrist? Until Luther pointed out it was the Pope ?
Randal W Deese
Most of the anti-Christs that I see are in the word of faith movement…
Varnel Watson
isnt it true in Orthodox Christian Perspective on the End Times that When the ‘mystery’ decisively achieves that authority, nothing will any longer hinder the appearance of Antichrist.? In the 1800s Saint Theophan the Recluse anticipated the evil which would attend the eventual loss of the Christian monarchy: “When the monarchy falls,” he said, “and everywhere nations institute self-rules then the Orthodox antiChrist will rule…
Randal W Deese
Troy Day I am traveling⌠I will answer soon
Varnel Watson
I do hope so Much to say about Epiphanus đ
Link Hudson
‘Orthodox antichrist’ sounds like an oxymoron if you take it literally.
Melvin Shomo
So in a sense the so-called Pentecostal Church is based on hearsay.
I don’t believe that the Church of God, or the Assembles of God would let such a person stay ordained.
Varnel Watson
Do you mean like a gay pastor or what?
Randal W Deese
I would be more interested in the actual timing of the Indwelling of the Spirit
Varnel Watson
That one is easy – after the believer is sanctified with a clean heart Melvin Harter but is offtopic – so back to the orthoAC
Link Hudson
Troy Day The random insertion of people’s names to tage them during text doesn’t make sense. If you tag at the end of a post, it makes more sense. Would you like to read a post that says, ‘Do you mean like a gay pastor or what? Troy Day” That doesn’t look right and people can interpret it wrongly. How about putting, ‘What do you think [insert name]?”
Varnel Watson
No random insertions Link We were talking with Melvin Shomo about this and I was intending to ask him about his c2 on the so called Pentecostal queer dialogue when I mentioned
” supposed to be Pentecostal that had a falsely so-called âmarriedâ âgayâ âpastorâ. “but time got away from me last night so here it is again http://www.stonewritten.com/?p=3933
Link Hudson
Out of context it can look like you are implying a poster is a gay pastor. You could also say “tag John Doe”.
Varnel Watson
Well it Link to your OP doesnt it? Cited from it it seems
Link Hudson
My OP?
Varnel Watson
Posted by Link Hudson in Facebook’s Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post https://www.facebook.com/groups/pentecostaltheologygroup/permalink/1375917865796558/
Link Hudson
Sorry I didn’t recognize it as my post with the graphic and link.
Varnel Watson
Facebook seems to do that to cross-posts It gave it the thumb from ths post here for some reason although proper thumb was assigned http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/are-children-born-innocent-and-choose-to-sin/
Any how your early morning c2 on the so called so called Pentecostal queer dialogue http://www.stonewritten.com/?p=3933 FYI its a thing that has been going on for a decade now we are just now getting around to talk about it . Scotty I just read your comment too
Randal W Deese
We teach that children are born innocent.
Varnel Watson
How is this related to the Beast’s Religion Mix of Pentecostalism and Liberalism thread exactly? Wrong thread ?
Scotty Searan
Well let’s look at the subject of homosexuality and nice combine the issue about a baby being born a sinner
At one time I believe that a child could not be born a homosexual but looking at the power of drugs and alcohol over body I believe that the jeans can be calls by evil spirits to happen in a child I would go to fart all the demonic possession
Now I know some will disagree with me but it one time people believed that a lot of people who had epilepsy seizures where demonic influence and maybe possessed
Medical Science seems to have come along and found some genes or characteristics that can control epilepsy seizures with medicine but not all of them
Now I have seen people who had epileptic seizures have the devil cast out of them some of them appeared demonic because they would throw up and do other contortions when the devil would leave them
Others I have seen it just be a healing and God heal them without medicine now what about homosexuality I believe in this day and time that the gene is being attacked buy a demonic Force even at a young age some children are confused not because they mama doing or why daddy do it they are just confused I don’t know what sex they belong to
I believe there are degrees of sins I do not believe all sins are the same type or on the same level using the Old Testament as a guideline God did not require the same sacrifices all the time for all sins.
Different sins require different sacrifices for atonement for their sins now let’s look at the New Testament
there’s a large list of the works of the flesh the Paul shows us
But also he includes a lot of things in 1st 5:11 in which a person who is called a brother meaning a Christian we should not even eat with them
It is fornicators people who covered people who rail or talk bad about people people who are extortioner
now it didn’t say anything about homosexuality here but indirectly homosexuality can be fornicating or committing adultery
Now let’s face the facts have we treated the homosexuals unfairly do you allow and extortioner to teach your Sunday school class do you allow a person who is committing adultery or fornicating to continue to sing and perform on your platform, do you continue bilaterally gossipers people that talk bad about it each other to participate in your services
The Bible did not say you could not associate with these people in the church but it said outside the church you were not the keep company or be a friend with people who had these characteristics
what is running rampant through the church pornography pornography is a type of fornication and adultery also I know you ain’t going to like this but the way people dress drawing attention to themselves especially the female wearing form-fitting clothes showing basically the outline of their body some even getting up on stage and twisting their hips
oh they are just worshipping God
Ladies the way you dress the way you wiggle and walk and conduct yourself can tempt a man I am 65 years old and I speak from experience if it has a tendency to bother me even at 65 how much more does it have a tendency to bother those who are much younger especially our young people
Yes I can see where we have been hard on the homosexuals and we have let hetero sexual sins go unnoticed as if they don’t happen we don’t want to be called judgemental or legalist
I don’t watch football games I don’t go to football games I don’t go to basketball games don’t watch basketball games because of nakedness that is shown among the people are the games themselves wrong no I can play football I can play basketball without all the other Hoople all that goes along with it
I don’t have to be drunk or to go half naked or 3/4 naked or paint my body to make myself be your fan of these teams
If you know where there is a potential of sin then you shouldn’t do it
I remember in junior high school and high school my parents but asked that I be dismissed and and my brothers and my sister from Pep rallies for the ball games because of the potential of causing a person to commit a sin
Sounds legalistic doesn’t it but it is not the Bible said inflection support chapter tells us to think on the righteous things that is a commandment that is serious if we don’t do it we commit sin
So in closing not only should we deal with homosexuality but we should deal with the other sin just mention on the same level as homosexuality especially those it said not to company with because they have such a potential to pull a person down spiritually think about it.
Varnel Watson
Brody Pope Michael Ellis Carter Jr. how do you feel liberal theology is affecting us as Pentecostals today?
Greg Robinson
Can you mix new wine in an old wineskin?
Michael Todd Combs
Yes you can.
Greg Robinson
Michael Todd Combs, I’m not so sure according to the actual lesson God is trying to teach us. You must be thinking of beer & wine. Yucky.
Michael Todd Combs
Greg Robinson no, I was just saying that you could. Unfortunately though, if you do, the gasses created by the fermentation process will burst the old wine skin.
Greg Robinson
Michael Todd Combs, haha!! I was hoping you said that! Yeah, good word brother.
Michael Todd Combs
Greg Robinson lol. Sorry man, had to do it.
Varnel Watson
yes you can
Louise Cummings
Well the Bible says you canât. The new wine would out of cracked wine shin. If you could soak them and cause them to swell again. It might hold new wine. Iâll have to look this Scripture up. Itâs like saying you can mix God and the world together. Iâm not talking about sinners coming to church. They need to come and heat the pure unadulterated Word Of God. All this liberal and God says if they do will have their part in the lake of fire. God and the world , doesnât mix. The old wineskins will burst. And your wine run out. All will be lost. Bitter water and sweet water doesnât come from the same fountain. God and the world does not mix. Either you are serving God , or the devil. They donât dwell in the same place. Yes , I do believe the devil is trying to creep in into our churches. But Christ is the head of the Church. We need to pray that He will help the pastors have backbone enough to keep such teachings in our Church. Yes many want their Church to be liberal. I pray God keep us on the straight and narrow path, that leads us to Heaver. Because no sin will be there.
Roger David
This enough of a mix of Pentecostalism and liberalism?
http://www.folochurch.org/
They are a church of tongue talking homosexuals. I’d show you a video of them but the YouTube channel that had some of my friends preaching out front of the church got taken down by YouTube and the channel removed.
They were rebuking the street preachers in tongues as the street preachers called their church to repentance over their perversion.
Varnel Watson
is this a church – what is so special about it?
Roger David
Troy Day It’s a gay Pentecostal church.
Roger David
Liberal Pentecostal?
Varnel Watson
oh Lord have mercy
Varnel Watson
I believe Scotty has posted reference before about gay queer I’ve always wondered if they may be socialist
Scotty Searan
Troy Day Were the Apostles liberals?
Varnel Watson
not sure what you mean – please explain more
Scotty Searan
Troy Day Acrts 2:45-45
Terry Wiles
Socialists. Only the elite of the elite has everything. Everyone else, âLet them eat cake.â
Roger David
There is no cake. The cake is a lie
Terry Wiles
Of course. But they believe the lie.
Terry Wiles
Fellowship of Love. Interesting name. Shades of âLove Winsâ. And âAll you got to do is Loveâ. And âLove will keep us togetherâ.
Scotty Searan
Troy Day, Roger David, Terry Wiles I am the first to say SECULAR socialism doesn’t work. It is full of lies. You don’t have to keep telling me that.
Roger David
Scotty Searan I didn’t even mention it. I was just showing that there was a gay Pentecostal church.
Scotty Searan
Troy Day, Roger David, Terry Wiles why can’t I get an answer on interpretation on what happened in the early church in its initial early days of Acts 2:41-45.
NO ONE has addressed that. I actually believe the Apostles were doing what Jesus Christ taught in its purist form and the people who were saved, were saved because of the seed Jesus Christ had planted and when the Holy Ghost came the ground exploded with souls being saved.
Explain how or what kind of ideology they were living under at that time. I say socialism, but you get upset because the word SOCIALISM has been poisoned just as the word GAY has been poisoned in our time.
Be honest Give me your interpretation
Quit attacking me.
Scotty Searan
Roger David Forgive me for that mistake
Terry Wiles
Scotty Searan Because you already know the only answer you will accept and reject all historical and biblical answers that differ from your opinion.
Terry Wiles
Scotty Searan
Roger David
I’ll try and respond even though I wasn’t part of this socialist chat.
Socialism is mandated and governed. In Acts this was not the case. Socialism is stealing from the haves to give to the have nots. Free will benevolence doesn’t match Socialism.
Scotty Searan
Terry Wiles because i disagreed on one subject such as the Trinity, which i don’t deny.
You won’t help me on another subject?
Roger David
https://tifwe.org/resource/does-acts-2-5-teach-socialism/
Scotty Searan
Roger David i agree with what you. But what kind of system was it? I agree it was freewill benevolence, but is there another simpler one word description
Roger David
Scotty Searan Love? It most definitely was not socialism.
Scotty Searan
Roger David thank you I will read it.
Scotty Searan
Roger David but love is poisoned in some ways in our society.
Scotty Searan
Liberalism espouses a salvation with no boundaries.
Varnel Watson
isnt salvation for all without boundaries?
Scotty Searan
Troy Day Salvation is free to everyone with no boundaries.
Salvation main ingredient is love for Jesus Christ?
What did Jesus Christ say if we love Him?
Varnel Watson
is Salvation free for illegal immigrants too?
Scotty Searan
Troy Day yes, but they must repent fron their sins like the rest of us.
Colossians 1:16
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Terry Wiles
Scotty Searan Donât forget the necessity of repentance. Troy Day?
Roger David
Scotty Searan I posted about a gay Pentecostal church…I also preach at gay pride parades…..I agree and am well aware of the perversions in our society.
Terry Wiles
Scotty Searan. Sorry. This media is very impersonal. I donât mean to offend you.
Certainly Acts 2 contains a communal aspect but it is very different from socialism. In Israel there are groups that still live in communes and it works very well.
Scotty Searan
Roger David I agree that it was not mandated, but I disagree with the authors perspectives that they didn’t sell their houses, and the disciples redistributed them.
I don’t use NIV. Translation. It adds things.
I don’t like reading something into something that is not there.
I do believe they sold all there houses, land and possessions and it was distributed back to people as they needed
The Bible said it and i believe it.
But it wasn’t long til humanity’s sinful state reared its ugly head in lying and racism.
Terry Wiles
For a very good read on whatâs happening and how they make it happen.
Roger David
I agree with not using the NIV as a standard.
Ananias wasn’t a big fan of socialism either. But he caved to peer pressure and lied to the Holy Spirit about what he owned and sold and donated.
The response was ….. Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”
He felt the pressure of socialism without having a benevolent heart. It didn’t go well for him.
I am all for seeing a need and doing what you can to help take care of it. Just don’t allow it to become something that is mandated and governed or you will find it corrupted and harmful.
Scotty Searan
Terry Wiles Though here in America if they live in a commune, they are almost always declared a cult.
That shows where that the word commune is polluted in our thinking because of such incidents in the pass of Jim Jones and there was another incident in the 90s i cant recall that had a bad outcome.
Roger David
I’ve known people that were part of “The Family International”. They lived communally but they are also an incest sex cult so that might not be a great representation of communal living at it’s best.
Scotty Searan
Roger David that is where I am at. I know secular socialism is not the route.
God bless you.
Terry Wiles
Scotty Searan. True
Scotty Searan
Communal living then seems to be what the early church believed in and practiced and it appears that may have been what Jesus Christ taught, because of it coming into the picture so quickly
Would it be wrong to call it pure religion and wisdom?
James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Roger David
I find that most who seek communal living do so not out of wanting to bless others but out of wanting others to help share the burden of taking care of them and their family. It’s born out of laziness and a lack of desire to work for what they get.
I love the idea of people of faith living in community….that’s not the same as communal living though.
Scotty Searan
Roger David Brings to mind this scripture
2 Thessalonians 3:7-12
7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
8 Neither did we eatany man’s bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
Any examples of a faith living community?
What is the difference?
12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
Varnel Watson
BARNA was among the first who wrote about this His book is virtually extinct https://books.google.com/books?id=7rAvykecfpkC&q=marketing+the+church&dq=marketing+the+church&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjl88vcg9zcAhVOrFMKHSvGDuoQ6AEIKTAA
Varnel Watson
Terry Wiles
Varnel Watson
Scotty Searan Roger David if NOT mistaken Link Hudson proposed this topic long time ago but the OP did not include homosexuality – especially not in Pentecostal churches. I think it will be a cold day in hell before our AG ordain homosexuals Terry Wiles
Scotty Searan
Just to get one thing straight. I do not condone Homosexuality in the least.
Yes I have posted some links on this site, just to get input from this group and discussion about the trends in Charismatic churches, because Charismatic beliefs have caused a lot of changes in our Mainline Pentecostal churches over the last 50 years..
if I was to give here my opinion on some issues you would call me a fanatic or legalist.
Now if me posting about trends that I see and they may be ungodly, makes me appear to condone them then I will not post them.
ONE MORE TIME I DO NOT CONDONE HOMOSEXUALITY NO MATTER HOW IT IS PACKAGED.
I can’t stop a homosexual from coming to church, but I can make them so uncomfortable in their sin, if the Holy Ghost gives me a word to say about it. i WILL NOT ATTACK ANY SIN JUST BECAUSE I KNOW A PERSON IN THE CONGREGATION IS DOING THAT SIN.
I will attack it, if the Holy Ghost impresses it in my spirit.
Link Hudson
A friend of mine who studied at a seminary in Jerusalem crossed Gehenna to get to another school’s library. He said he saw the frost frozen there. So maybe you should use another saying.
Varnel Watson
You’ve said this before What about OP?
Varnel Watson
Brody Pope Michael Todd Combs Ricky Grimsley if yall feel like cant answer the question you can always ask @charles peage He is so smart
Michael Todd Combs
I was trying to see if I had already commented. Before I can answer, please define âliberalâ theology.
Varnel Watson
well not really sure IF ppl make difference between liberal and liberation theology in this group
Michael Todd Combs
From what Iâve read here, is it concerning homosexuals?
Varnel Watson
yes, good read of OP
liberation theology has to do with socialism
liberal theology is about everything and anything someone dont like and they call it liberal or whatever
Link Hudson in this OP connected the theology of the beast with homosexual theology in the last day, but he probably meant mainline baptists (more or less)
Michael Todd Combs
Troy Day so is the question how has this new love of socialism affected the Pentecostal Church or are we talking more about hyper grace? I think the terms liberal and conservative have become so convoluted that no one knows what they really mean.
Varnel Watson
I think Link was speaking of hillsong and their gay worship leaders getting married but I may be mistaken.
Christian socialism is a whole new animal that was brought Scotty Searan and Jan Dixon Sykes to defend Trumps derailing of classical capitalism
They can speak of their point(s)
I am more concerned with Pentecostal theology gone South
Michael Todd Combs
Troy Day guess I need to read the article first.
Varnel Watson
you can read my upcoming book
when it comes out
Michael Todd Combs
Troy Day I can lie to you and tell you I will
Scotty Searan
Troy Day You don’t like the word socialism, so how about COMMUNE? Did the early church temporarily entertained COMMUNAL living voluntarily? Your PT has gone south because you refuse to comment on the very early church and its pure unadulterated theology
Link Hudson
Troy Day i dont remember either but I recall I may have presented an idea as wild speculation not an essential compnent of eschatology. It may beeven more speculative than the preyrob rapture or the idea that the 144,000 are all evangelists.
Varnel Watson
well I am just reading it from your original post and it says what it says https://www.facebook.com/groups/pentecostaltheologygroup/permalink/1375917865796558/
Varnel Watson
Scotty Searan PT has not gone south on the contrary. COMMUNAL living and socialism are not equal things to even compare. What you are trying to propose from Acts was dismantled by the Holy Ghost with the persecution of the church that scared them all to the ends of the Roman Emipre. No communal living is mentioned in Acts past that. You are simply playing with words and trying to get out of the communistic hole you dug for yourself but its way too late. This OP is NOT about socialism – pls dont hijack it with your leftist liberalism political convictions #majorFail
Scotty Searan
I am not for communistic socialism, which I have stated over and over.
I am trying to hijack the with leftist liberalism.
It does appear to be endorsed or promoted by Paul after Acts.
Apostle Paul does lean toward communalism when he addresses the rich in Timothy.
Philippians 2 is another example. Philippians 2:3-5 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
3 Do nothing [a]from [b]selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; 4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Have this attitude [c]in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
This is is not a commandment, but it appears Paul is admonishing the church at Corinth to have a communal style living.
2 Corinthians 8:8-15 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
8 I am not speaking this as a command, but as proving through the earnestness of others the sincerity of your love also. 9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, so that you through His poverty might become rich. 10 I give my opinion in this matter, for this is to your advantage, who were the first to begin a year ago not only to do this, but also to desire to do it. 11 But now finish [a]doing it also, so that just as there was the readiness to desire it, so there may be also the completion of it by your ability. 12 For if the readiness is present, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have. 13 For this is not for the ease of others and for your affliction, but by way of equalityâ 14 at this present time your abundance being a supply for their need, so that their abundance also may become a supply for your need, that there may be equality; 15 as it is written, âHe who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little had no lack.â
Paul did promote everybody working and not being a burden on others.
2 Thessalonians 3:7-12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
7 For you yourselves know how you ought to [a]follow our example, because we did not act in an undisciplined manner among you, 8 nor did we eat [b]anyoneâs bread [c]without paying for it, but with labor and hardship we kept working night and day so that we would not be a burden to any of you; 9 not because we do not have the right to this, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you, so that you would [d]follow our example. 10 For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either. 11 For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies. 12 Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to work in quiet fashion and eat their own bread.
Did Paul contradict himself? No? 2 Corinthian 8:12 For if the readiness is present, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have.
If he had worked and was not successful beyond his control, The person had been working with a willing mind..
Troy Day I will not bring this up again, unless you mention it again.
ONE MORE TIME I DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE SECULAR, DEVILISH, COMMUNISTIC FOR OF SOCIALISM AND TO SAY i DO IS MISREPRESENTING MY FACTS AND STATEMENTS.
http://www.biblestudying.net/communal_living.html
Varnel Watson
Naah. Paul was a small business owner of a tent making enterprise. Socialism does not allow self-employment. Everyone is employed by the state and works for the state Paul worked for himself and was not paid by the state
It is 100% most certain that socialism does NOT allow self-employed apostles or apostles of any kind. So no, Paul is not supporting socialism of any known today kind
You are again mistaking communal living with socialism They are not one and the same. Socialism involves a socialist proletarian state to govern the masses – has 0 to do with communal living or any proposed Biblical model
Scotty Searan
Troy Day You are twisting. I did not say Paul leaned toward socialism. I said he leaned toward communal living and there is a difference.
I know Paul worked, because I shared a scripture and he did not want to be a burden at least to the church in Thessalonica.
Communal living is not socialism and I never said it was.
Maybe I was using the wrong term and I was searching for a correct term and thankful to one of the brothers who shared with me the correct term.
I asked for what to call it, but you never responded in what to call it.
PLEASE QUIT CALLING ME A SOCIALIST, BECAUSE i AM NOT ACCORDING TO THE SECULAR MEANING .
PLEASE QUIT SAYING THAT I AM TEACHING SOCIALISM, BECAUSE I AM NOT
Am I an advocate of communalism? I am, because that was what the early church believed and I believed Jesus taught.
Varnel Watson
No I am not I was simply responding to your statement that
“It does appear to be endorsed or promoted by Paul after Acts.”
which is not true. Either way, except if you are aligning socialism with homosexuality, which are both liberal left politics, you are off topic. From what I read Link Hudson was not making that connection in OP – it was more a of homosexuals in church, which he cited as speculation
Varnel Watson
Michael Todd Combs dont let the reading take forever now đ
Anonymous
dont thin Link Hudson meant here what Brett Dobbs said
The apostate church, a new religion of combined Islam, Judaism, Christianity. Or the Roman Catholic church. Or maybe itâs something else.
but he can explain it much better
Anonymous
Troy Day Iâm sure that a mix of Pentecostalism and liberalism plays a part in it.
Anonymous
Brett Dobbs I dont think so TerryandNita Wiles Neil Steven Lawrence Michael Chauncey ALL TRUE Pentecostals shall be raptured – many baptist left behind…
Anonymous
Troy Day đ
Why the baptist?
Anonymous
Link Hudson went to VBS – he may know
Anonymous
Troy Day I don’t have a firm doctrinal stance on the matter. It was just an idea for discussion.
Anonymous
Link Hudson when you say antichrist pentecost and gay in the same post without proof it is a misleading slander. BUT to the gay-point do you have any observations that pro-gay theology is taking over ANY Pentecostal stream? Was this popular in Asia when you were there? I am asking because John Mushenhouse have discussed a lot a NEW thing acoming around they call doctrine of non-practicing homosexuals AND I have personally wondered if it will hit first our AG TerryandNita Wiles OR cog Neil Steven Lawrence Dale M. Coulter Tony Richie Peter Vandever
Anonymous
Troy Day there are occasions when itâs being taught in a few churches that âsame sex attractionâ is not a somewhat normal for some and perhaps not a sinâŚ
Anonymous
TerryandNita Wiles NOW iHop-KC where Peter Vandever attended has started the deliverance manuals https://www.ihopkc.org/resources/blog/power-to-deliver-ministry-manual-stephen-beauchamp/?fbclid=IwAR29YMgFJqd9ns7x0P1ew3SflJWu6nLxpC57VgU9RsjeGHzdY5MtEqNAhX0
Anonymous
Troy Day I think I posted about a chur h with a homosexual pastor and ‘first man’ in an organization that calls itself Pentecostal. Indonesian Christians tend to be conservative on this. Anglican and Reformed seemed conservative on this also. Never heard of ‘gay Christianity.’
Someone with a propensity to be attracted to the same sex can become a Christian. But like all Christians he should make no provision for the flesh to fulfill the lust thereof and reckon himself to be dead indeed into sin but alive to God.
Anonymous
oh thatS just terrible Link Hudson
ALL you need to know about the gay homosexual issue from a theological point of view
This Article was mentioned on pentecostaltheology.com