Why God created us if we were going to hell?

Posted by Ricky Grimsley in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

My question is why would God create us if he knows if we are going to hell already. My supposition is that calvanism and armenianism are essentially the same since the both have a god that condemns people to hell either by decree or by mere creation since he already knew from tje “foundation” of the world.

Tim Anderson [11/25/2015 8:35 PM]
This verse comes to mind: “Then the LORD said to Moses, “Go in to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may show these signs of mine among them” EX 10:1 (ESV)

It seems to me that answers to both questions are ones that the LORD prefers to keep hidden at this time (they are the secret things) See Deut. 29:29. One man’s opinion…

Ricky Grimsley [11/25/2015 9:01 PM]
I dont think they are hidden. I believe God tests us to learn. I believe god does not exhaustively know the future. I believe prophecy is god saying something will happen and then making it happen.

John Kissinger [11/26/2015 8:55 AM]
so just straight universalism eh? http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/was-karl-barth-a-universalist/

31 Comments

  • Michael Green
    Reply December 4, 2017

    Michael Green

    It’s called free will

  • Troy Day
    Reply December 4, 2017

    Troy Day

    Agreed OPEN theism cannot answer such questions

  • Johnny Martin
    Reply December 4, 2017

    Johnny Martin

    people are choosing to go to hell , because they cannot give up their sins.

  • Ricky Grimsley
    Reply December 4, 2017

    Ricky Grimsley

    Open theism is the only thought that consistently answers the question. In arminianism and Calvinism you still have God knowing who will go to hell before he creates them. You can call that free-will if you want to but if its already decided before the world begins…..it is delusional to.

    • Ify Divine Nsoha
      Reply December 5, 2017

      Ify Divine Nsoha

      Open Theism undermines the preeminence and sovereignty and glory and Majesty of God

    • Ricky Grimsley
      Reply December 5, 2017

      Ricky Grimsley

      How so. God knows all that can be known. God has sovereignly chose to give you free will. Be didnt have to. You do not understand open-theism

    • Ify Divine Nsoha
      Reply December 5, 2017

      Ify Divine Nsoha

      Ok man I feel like I may have overstepped myself. Explain bro

    • Ricky Grimsley
      Reply December 5, 2017

      Ricky Grimsley

      Open-theism teaches that God knows everything as it is. Some things are possibilities. In this passage God “knows” what will happen but in informs david and so things change. 1 Samuel 23:11-13 KJVS
      [11] Will the men of Keilah deliver me up into his hand? will Saul come down, as thy servant hath heard? O Lord God of Israel, I beseech thee, tell thy servant. And the Lord said, He will come down. [12] Then said David, Will the men of Keilah deliver me and my men into the hand of Saul? And the Lord said, They will deliver thee up. [13] Then David and his men, which were about six hundred, arose and departed out of Keilah, and went whithersoever they could go. And it was told Saul that David was escaped from Keilah; and he forbare to go forth.

    • Ricky Grimsley
      Reply December 5, 2017

      Ricky Grimsley

      Also most open-theist recognize ,that before creation,there is no practical difference between the Calvinist and the arminian. God either decrees all events or knows all events before he creates and therefore the future is settled either way. Arminians dont like to hear that but its still truth. They quote “foreknowledge doesnt equal predestination” but it doesnt matter what you call it if the future cant change.

    • Ify Divine Nsoha
      Reply December 5, 2017

      Ify Divine Nsoha

      Ricky Grimsley I do agree on the Arminian bit.

  • Vincent Christina Young
    Reply December 4, 2017

    Vincent Christina Young

    Because he did so live for him and just believe in him. If you don’t you are destroyed.

  • Vincent Christina Young
    Reply December 4, 2017

    Vincent Christina Young

    He’s pretty blunt in what he asks of us. So I’d just do it.

  • Ricky Grimsley
    Reply December 4, 2017

    Ricky Grimsley

    Exactly everyone lives like open-theism is true.

  • Troy Day
    Reply December 4, 2017

    Troy Day

    I think you were just predestined to be open theist

  • Vincent Christina Young
    Reply December 5, 2017

    Vincent Christina Young

    All u guys crack me up and Troy Day like seriously man come on.

  • Ricky Grimsley
    Reply December 5, 2017

    Ricky Grimsley

    Im still waiting for a good explanation of how God can know im going to heaven or hell before he creates me but some how i still get to choose. Its nonsense

  • Troy Day
    Reply December 5, 2017

    Troy Day

    You were predestined to wait for lots of things it seems

  • Ricky Grimsley
    Reply December 5, 2017

    Ricky Grimsley

    Some people may be predestined. You and I do not share the same experience as a Paul or a Jeremiah. Or Judas?

  • Troy Day
    Reply December 5, 2017

    Troy Day

    I dont have answers to all your questions. You seem to have tons of it about your faith. You may wanna try seminary or some education in religion

    • Vincent Christina Young
      Reply December 5, 2017

      Vincent Christina Young

      All I need is to study the Holy Bible because there’s all my answers in that book

    • Troy Day
      Reply December 5, 2017

      Troy Day

      That’s exactly what Ricky said before turning to feelings 🙂 I just didnt want you to credit me for his sayings in the group

    • Ricky Grimsley
      Reply December 5, 2017

      Ricky Grimsley

      There are parts of this we all speculate about because we only know in part. Again. There is zero proof of pretib

  • Ricky Grimsley
    Reply December 5, 2017

    Ricky Grimsley

    I have more questions because i actually listen to different points of view and try to create a paradigm where all the scriptures fit instead of trying to make the scriptures fit the ideology i was raised with.

  • Troy Day
    Reply January 14, 2020

    Troy Day

    Chris Atkinson wrote

    So obviously there is a need for hell and I understand how Lucifer and the other fallen angels got there but why did he need to give satan dominion over the earth and the ability to have influence in our lives?

    YEAH almost but NOT really Douglas Bowers Sr. Sr. Satan was not given earth Earth was given to Adam and Even – a covenant right if you will Which they lost in the fall of sin FOR earth to be taken back again {soon} http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/one-fatal-mistake-of-pastors-preach-about-hell/

    • Douglas Bowers Sr.
      Reply January 14, 2020

      Douglas Bowers Sr.

      Troy Day Great truth

    • Troy Day
      Reply January 14, 2020

      Troy Day

      At first glance you’d probably think I’m resistant to change. I don’t drink Starbucks coffee. I’m still not used to women having tattoos. I’m not getting an earring any time soon. And my wife says I still have the same haircut I had when I was in fifth grade. I assume she thinks that’s a bad thing.

      By all appearances you’d think I’m someone that wants to keep things just the way they are. But I’m not. I love change. I love the thrill of staying current, or even staying one step ahead. I love anticipating trends. I’m usually not too concerned with running with the pack.

      But there is one change that troubles me: It’s the lack of talk about hell by pastors.

  • Mike Partyka
    Reply January 14, 2020

    Mike Partyka

    19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

    22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

  • Troy Day
    Reply January 15, 2020

    Troy Day

    its pretty clear if you ask me Mike Partyka

    • Mike Partyka
      Reply January 15, 2020

      Mike Partyka

      Troy Day I think one of the biggest issues in the church today is people have this notion that the OT God was mean and the NT God is love and and mercy. Best statement for these people to swallow….. Jesus watched Sodom and Gomorrah in complete agreement with God.

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Why God created us if we were going to hell?

Posted by in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

My question is why would God create us if he knows if we are going to hell already. My supposition is that calvanism and armenianism are essentially the same since the both have a god that condemns people to hell either by decree or by mere creation since he already knew from tje “foundation” of the world.

Tim Anderson [11/25/2015 8:35 PM]
This verse comes to mind: “Then the LORD said to Moses, “Go in to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may show these signs of mine among them” EX 10:1 (ESV)

It seems to me that answers to both questions are ones that the LORD prefers to keep hidden at this time (they are the secret things) See Deut. 29:29. One man’s opinion…

Ricky Grimsley [11/25/2015 9:01 PM]
I dont think they are hidden. I believe God tests us to learn. I believe god does not exhaustively know the future. I believe prophecy is god saying something will happen and then making it happen.

John Kissinger [11/26/2015 8:55 AM]
so just straight universalism eh? http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/was-karl-barth-a-universalist/

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