REMEMBER the Pentecostal letter to President TRUMP?

REMEMBER the Pentecostal letter to President TRUMP?
Posted by in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

Marc Jackson Thank you Joseph Kidwell
Scotty Searan I will comment more on this letter, but it sounds like a polical agenda under the cloak of Repentance.  Purely hypocritical
Larry Ray Talley Purely predictable.
Brian Fulthorp it smells like #fakenews
Marc Jackson Well, Dr. Amos Yong, Dr. Brian Zahnd, Dr. Craig S. Keener are not small hitters. Their character and integrity precedes  their theology
Walter Polasik Troy Day: Then they must haver poor theology and from what I gather from the letter, it seems they do. I read through it and smacked my head. If this is really what they’re asking for then let me say it here and now: Liberalism is alive and well in Charismatic circles. Also, unfortunately, I have to say it’s probably because we’re talking a bout a lot of black and Hispanic Charismatics that we have liberal-leaning/dripping comments/theology from them. I mean no disrespect here but politically it’s been known for a while that Christian or not, “minorities” (there’s a word that’s going to get a change of representation…you and I are well on our way to becoming that!) have usually voted Democrat. It seems that with them, their politics and faith don’t mix too well. Yes, the Bible says that life is sacred but. . . well, this is the 21st century, we NEED abortions. And yes the Bible says in Christ we’re all one body…but if you listen to some proponents on talk radio. . .black Christians from even the Reformed circle, they “don’t feel safe” worshipping with white brothers who elected Trump. Yeah. Real unity there.     But, for instance, Paul Walker is NOT a “minority” and HE subscribed to this claptrap? Let’s see what points they made and how biblical they are:1. Trump “demonizes” immigrants and says they’re responsible for “most” of the crime in the country. Well, before we get to the biblical part of this point, let’s take a hard look at the facts. When speaking of Mexican and other Latino immigrants—ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS —(there’s the part our sniveling bunch forgot to mention)—it has been recorded time and time again that they are, in fact, responsible for so much of the crime, especially (but not exclusive to) the West and Southwest of the country. Drug pushers, human trafficking pedlers, and, (not to be forgotten) GANG MEMBERS. Mala Salvatrucha alone (that’s MS-13) was the specific focus of Trump’s crackdown on deadly gangs in the U.S. that are PRIMARILY made up of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Now, it’s not just bad Latinos we have to watch out for. How about the Russian Mafia? They’re out there. Now, our conscientious lamenters have written that, after all, God directed Israel to LOVE the alien and stranger, right? (They cite Leviticus 19:33,34) But, as usual with Liberal theology (liberal ANYTHING for that matter) they leave half the story out. Typical. I draw your attention to Deuteronomy 28:43 where Moses tells the people that, if they would not walk with God, several things would be characteristic of their land (which, in fact happened to Israel time and time again…and is a good parallel for what has been happening in America). Moses warned them that the “stranger who is among you” (immigrant) would “rise higher and higher above you and you shall go lower and lower”. Due to unrestrained, unchecked immigration, this is EXACTLY what is happening in the country. Historically, one must admit that America was once PRIMARILY majority-white. The second runner up were the African peoples we had brought here (and our treatment of whom was a conscience-tester to the whole nation). After that you had ever-present natives and a rising Latino population. But there was no such thing as “multi-culturalism” in America. Not really even up until the mid-1970’s!    Every country has immigrants, but NO country (until the U.K., then Germany and France) has been stupid enough to annihilate its stock culture by a flood-tide of the world. The non-white countries of the world aren’t doing that. Not Japan, or India, or China. Even sneaky, lucrative Switzerland wouldn’t do that. (They don’t bring in immigrants…they bring in money). We also note that when Israel left Egypt a “mixed multitude” went with them. (Ex. 12:38). It was that “mixed multitude” that also caused trouble for Israel on the journey. Much later in Israel’s history, when the Law was reintroduced to what had been a wayward nation, they also realized they couldn’t keep their purity not only as a people of God, but as a nation, if they had the “mixed multitude” in their midst. So they separated them. (Neh.13:3). We are to love the immigrant, but we are also to watch the safety of our borders and keep the cohesiveness of our country. We already have enough of a “mixed multitude” here, we don’t need more. Showing love to an immigrant MINORITY (and that, by the way, was always the safe proportion in ANY country) is one thing. Letting in floods of half the world so as to disintegrate the demographics, society and culture we have had for the past 200 years….that’s another thing altogether. And let me put it in stark perspective for you. By 2050, sociologists say, whites will be a minority. That’s a very conservative estimate. I’m thinking probably around 2030, 2025. Now, think with me. At that time, when a white man says, “Our Founding Fathers” referring to Washington, Madison, Jefferson et. al., what do you think the MAJORITY is going to say? “WHOSE founding fathers? THOSE dead, slave-owning white guys? Not OURS!” And that will be the end of that. You think I’m kidding just take a survey of the kinds of things being said in contemporary social-studies TODAY. So, I think Trump has a pretty good handle on the immigrant situation. . . .
Michael Ellis Carter Jr. Wow a lot of stereotypes and generalizations that are not true in this comment especially about blacks and our theology/politics. Most of us reformed theology blacks are republican (me included). In case you didn’t know many Pentecostals today are reformed but most Pentecostal heads are shoved so far up their (well you know) we miss the changing tide and mislabel what we don’t understand. Whites may become the minority in race but not in power or wealth over the next 20 years so let’s not kid ourselves with social science which is the original fake news we have allowed to socially engineer us for generations. Think about this if we let a woman choose to have an abortion are we not functioning more like God than if we decide for them. God gives free choice he forces no one to follow him. It’s not our responsibility to limit choices it’s or responsibility to provide the moral compass. The issue is that most of us do not neatly fit on one side of the isle anymore. So though we may lean one way we are loyal to he word of God and the candidate closes to our faith. Power and privilege feels like racism when restricted. Until we decide to stop being disingenuous nothing in his country is going to change. I really wonder if we honestly think the Holy Spirit is leading us to say most of the things we post…
Kevin Wayne “Then they must haver poor theology and from what I gather from the letter, it seems they do”Some of the deepest theology I’ve read would come from people I’m sure you would choke on their politics. You assertion here is baseless.”liberal-leaning/dripping comments/theology from them. I mean no disrespect here but politically it’s been known for a while that Christian or not, “minorities” (there’s a word that’s going to get a change of representation…you and I are well on our way to becoming that!) have usually voted Democrat”Because historically, they have had to learn to petition their government in order to enjoy the same simple freedoms you and I take for granted. If you don’t like it, try listening to them for once and let what they say shape your politics and act on it – instead of trying to insist others shape theirs to suit you.”black Christians from even the Reformed circle, they “don’t feel safe” worshipping with white brothers who elected Trump. Yeah. Real unity there”Again, expecting others to deny lived experiences to suit you. “ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS —(there’s the part our sniveling bunch forgot to mention)—it has been recorded time and time again that they are, in fact, responsible for so much of the crime”Nope: https://www.cato.org/…/immigration-myths-crime-number…https://www.cato.org/…/new-report-illegal-immigrant…And CATO’s hardly what you would call “Liberal,” so you can keep your stereotypes to yourself. “Moses warned them that the “stranger who is among you” (immigrant) would “rise higher and higher above you and you shall go lower and lower”. Due to unrestrained, unchecked immigration, this is EXACTLY what is happening in the country.”Wow, talk about reading your theology into the text [Deut 28] – Oh wait, what do we call someone who does that? Usually a LIBERAL.”Historically, one must admit that America was once PRIMARILY majority-white”*yawn* Who cares.”but NO country (until the U.K., then Germany and France) has been stupid enough to annihilate its stock culture by a flood-tide of the world”Word: The US doesn’t have *a* culture. Even if you only count whites, there’s a difference when you go Oregon, vs the Deep South, vs NYC. Always has been. “The non-white countries of the world aren’t doing that. Not Japan, or India, or China”And Japan is paying for it, too – with a greying population.”We also note that when Israel left Egypt a “mixed multitude” went with them. (Ex. 12:38). It was that “mixed multitude” that also caused trouble for Israel on the journey. Much later in Israel’s history, when the Law was reintroduced to what had been a wayward nation, they also realized they couldn’t keep their purity not only as a people of God, but as a nation, if they had the “mixed multitude” in their midst. So they separated them. (Neh.13:3):That’s a bit of a stretch to assume they were the same people from one generation to the next. Where was Bathsheba from? Why, she was married to a Hittite~! What did she eventually do? Give birth to a future king of Israel & ancestor of the Messiah. Oops, there goes your “liberal” eisegesis.”what do you think the MAJORITY is going to say? “WHOSE founding fathers? THOSE dead, slave-owning white guys?”They will be more realistic instead of engaging in mawkish hero-worship” Good for them~!I think the point being made is not that there shouldn’t be some regulations on immigration, but that demonization is unhealthy. Even compassion dictates we look at WHY they are coming here. NAFTA is likely the smoking gun.
Benjamin C Bratvogel Wtf is this..?y’all should write a book
Marc Jackson Walter PolasikDr. Amos Yong, Dr. Brian Zahnd, Dr. Craig S. Keener ???naah – dont think so
Walter Polasik Fine, not them. But even if they’re not minorities, they’ve sucked up the sniveling ideology of the “hurt minority”. With well-sounding words they would throw caution to the wind. SHAME ON THEM!
Kevin Wayne “they’ve sucked up the sniveling ideology of the “hurt minority”This just says it all about how Christlike and understanding of history you actually are. Such words should never come from a Christian. Shame on you.
Walter Polasik 2. The next point they discuss is North Korea and talk of war. “Didn’t Jesus say to LOVE your enemies” they say. . . (Matt. 5:44). Yes, He did, but you have to ask two questions with that. a. HOW. . .If a violent rapist breaks into my home, wants to rape my wife and/or harm my children, am i supposed to stand idly by and not harm him because I “love” him? What nonsense is this?!!! Better example: When Hitler rolled into Poland in 1939 what were the loving, Catholic Poles supposed to do? Stand aside and roll out the red carpet for him because God forbid they aim a howitzer at him! Of course not! They had every right to protect their nation and riddle his forces with hot lead! What these “Christian” numbskulls are advocating is pacifism of the Quaker kind or worse! Even ISRAEL finally took the hint and protected their land in 1967! Once again I say: out and out Liberalism on the part of these petitioners. b. TO WHOM is Jesus referring. To an individual or to an enemy state? What these petitioners are doing is mixing up faith-morality with proper administration of a nation-state. That’s why I’m glad none of them serve in the State Department! (What a disaster THAT would be…judging from this letter!). . . .
Walter Polasik Their third point was a plea for the environment. As far as keeping things clean and healthy for the public, that’s not a bad thing. But, as usual with things political, I smell.. . . .things political. That is, I smell a plea for left-wing environmentalism wherein “green thinking” is used to have an influence on EVERYTHING. Trump was right to be wary of such ploys.
Kevin Wayne I think it’s time American Christians ask themselves what is it that makes them skeevish about environmentalism. Is there really something wrong with it, or are they just swallowing Corporate propaganda without questioning the validity of said claims?
Walter Polasik Their 5th point was to mention Native Americans again. Excuse me for asking but, last I checked, weren’t Native Americans getting serious $$$ from the government in addition to making a killing at businesses like the casino industry? As far as scholarships for higher education go, didn’t they and everyone else BESIDES REGULAR WHITE FOLKS have a little box to check off on their applications for more $$$? What IS it with these snivellers that makes them snivel so? It’s never enogh, is it? Oh, wait. . . .that IS the politics of the New Left. “Bend over backwards for us, then forwards and spread both ‘cheeks’. . .and that STILL won’t be enough. . . we want MORE.” Yup.      Finally, they say something about the gap between the rich and the poor. True enough, and Trump’s lavish dinner parties are no exception to the criticism. But then, this legitimate grievance has ALWAYS been the case, ever since the Founding Fathers. I’d just been reading an excellent American History text, “America” by George B. Tindall and David E. Shi. It clearly shows how, though even the “Founding Fathers” claimed to be “men of the people” and true representatives, the incidents of “Shay’s Rebellion” and the routing of “Coxey’s Army” (the veteran’s march on Washington) showed exactly what those in power thought of the regular folk. “Go cry at home to your mommy. We don’t give a &^%$” Oh, when it suited THEIR purposes (FDR and the New Deal) they rolled out “help”. But after a while, that efficient government expansion just morphed into more efficient TAXATION. Some help. We’ll see if anything changes under Trump.
Kevin Wayne Taxation is a legitimate onus places on people for the use of services rendered. You use public services every single say of your life.
Walter Polasik Finally, their points about the Trump administration “lying”…to what are they referring? Where are the specifics? Again, sounds like a Liberal cry. If anybody lied it was the Liberal media who all along wanted people to believe Trump colluded with Putin to thwart Hillary’s election! A year later Trump is still smiling going, “You keep playing the same broken record. . .but it didn’t happen if it didn’t happen. Right?” And as for the sex-allegations, while I don’t justify Trump’s past behavior and words, our petitioners are writing him as if he were (somehow) a CHRISTIAN president. He’s not. Yes, all the same accountability is required, as is integrity. It was of JFK (who failed) and of Clinton (who failed). It’s a good thing those Pentecostal/Charismatic pastors are getting so moral with Trump. They ought also to look into their own denominations over the years and count how many times their own pastors have been involved in scandalous hanky-panky. I say what’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, is all.    All in all. . . .besides two points perhaps, a horrendous Liberal-drip of a letter. I’m truly disappointed.
Micael Grenholm Hi Walter! You ask “to what are they referring?” We explicitely say: “We are deeply troubled with how easily you and your administration are able to tell straight up lies, whether it’s about crowd sizes, illegal voting, wiretapping or, as mentioned, that you boasted about groping women.” There you go, four concrete example of Trump lying. If that wasn’t enough, we also link to this list by the NY Times listing 103 lies: https://www.nytimes.com/…/trump-lies-obama-who-is-worse… All lies are recorded and publicly available, for example on the President’s Twitter. I think the only legitimate reason one denies that Trump frequently lies is that one is illiterate.
Walter Polasik Michael Grenholm: You cite an article from the NY Times. Might as well be from the Washington Post or the Village Voice. You cite 4 items wherein Trump is said to be incorrect. Let’s check the record to see if he was. 1. Illegal voting. Did the DNC engage in something like that in 2016? Let’s find out. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/…/project_veritas….
Walter Polasik 2. Wiretapping. Did Obama really try to eavesdrop on candidate Donald Trump before he was elected? Again, what does the (non-biased, non pro-Liberal) record show? http://thehill.com/…/351495-it-looks-like-obama-did-spy….
Walter Polasik 3. Did Trump continue to stand by his initial assertion about crowd-size on inauguration? No, in fact he readily admitted he overstated the case in a moment of braggadocio. However, what does the crowd size tells us about Trump and Obama? It tells us how heavily swayed by liberalism the country is. In 2009 people came out as if to see the Second Coming of the Messiah (in fact, that’s what Obama was called by several, no joke). The reason? (He hadn’t even done anything yet as President). . .he was black. The Scion of Liberalism incarnate. And I dare anyone to challenge that these were exactly the reasons why so many turned out. Putting it baldly, that’s exactly what it was. So, I’m not too worried that Trump had a smaller crowd. The underdog usually does. https://www.rawstory.com/…/trump-made-rare-admission…/.
Walter Polasik 4. Boasting of groping women: Trump, Mr. Rich Guy, plenty of money, plenty of babes. When he ran with the Liberals no one said a word about him. Whatever he did was fine. That’s the way the “upper crust” lives. Just accept it. Then he switched to a Conservative platform. And, as a lot of rich boys, he acted the playboy. But, we couldn’t have THAT from a Republican ticket. First we shall roast Roy Moore. Then latch on to Trump’s unguarded comments (because in politics, nothing is private, we guess) but while we’re in such a frenzy about pointing out foibles, (especially of semi-moralistic political figures) . . . what happened to Wonder Boy Willie? Why did HE get a free pass during HIS administration? As I recall, the Democrats were all up in arms when Ken Starr and his committee were investigating Slick Willy. After all he was “the first black president” . . .or so the popular saying went in the ’90’s. Oh, and this is from the NY Times even, how handy. https://www.nytimes.com/…/bill-clinton-sexual….
Walter Polasik So, in conclusion, I say if you’re going to lambaste Trump: 1. Do it for LEGITIMATE grievances. (And the sexual misconduct one IS legitimate) 2. If you’re going to accuse him of LYING make sure it’s about matters like NATIONAL SECURITY and not CROWD SIZES for crying out loud. 3. Or if you’re going to talk about the RNC or Trump’s personal circle engaging in whatever voter fraud, make sure the DNC isn’t also doing the same thing. Otherwise, what’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. But I believe I said that in my last post as well. Cheers.
Kevin Wayne “When he ran with the Liberals no one said a word about him”Because he wasn’t running for office at the time. Note how several leading lights among the Democrats have fallen recently due to allegations of misconduct. Point refuted.
Kevin Wayne Blah, blah blah, Illegal voting. Tell your Repub buddies to stop gerrymandering minorities out of their districts, then [yes, both sides are guilty on this one.]
Kevin Wayne Just for the record: Foval is a Clinton operative. Everyone knows the Clintons are not true progressives. That’s why there was a walkout at the DNC convention 2 years ago.
Walter Polasik Kevin Wayne: Tell your Democrat buddies to finally stop calling African-Americans “minorities”. They’re NOT anymore. At this rate, I’M a minority. WHITES are. And Dems have done a lot more “gerrymandering” than Republicans ever did. This is also why Democrats are so keen on flooding the country with non-white immigrants. They’ll then paint the Republican Party as a bunch of racist whites and use all their barely-English-literate amnestied “citizens” to vote against the color line. This is so pitiful and below the belt as to be sickening. A masterful play of the “race card”. They’ve been doing this for years.
Kevin Wayne “Tell your Democrat buddies to finally stop calling African-Americans “minorities”. They’re NOT anymore. At this rate, I’M a minority. WHITES are”Awww… Do you need a hug? ;)”Dems have done a lot more “gerrymandering” than Republicans ever did”Nope: http://www.businessinsider.com/partisan-gerrymandering…”This is also why Democrats are so keen on flooding the country with non-white immigrants”Excuse me? Bush Jr. had a LOT of Hispanics turning GOP because he wanted a fair deal for illegals. The Koch brothers who regularly donate to conservative candidates want open borders. Read Breitbart if your sooooo incensed with “correct” sources. And keep your ill-informed stereotypes to yourself.
Kevin Wayne http://www.breitbart.com/…/time-mag-koch-brothers…
Marc Jackson So Walter Polasik are you saying John the Baptist should have not called a very religious king who rebuilt the temple to repent from his sins?
Gary Stacey It is offensive to use this board for personal political points. Did you do the same for the previous administration?
Walter Polasik Gary Stacey, it’s just discussion. Everyone is entitled to his or her own political views. And I’d rather discuss heated politics or heated theology with informed believers than with uninformed. So by all means Gary, do join the table. Troy Day: No, John the Baptist was right in what he did and it is also the same kind of point the petitioners made that is also one of the two points I actually agree with in their open letter. I’m glad, at least, that pastor and churches are PRAYING for this president and not calling for his DEATH like a certain Steven Anderson of Faithful Word Baptist Church did of Obama. THAT was truly a poor Christian witness.
Gary Stacey It is an inappropriate discussion. It is also quite un-Biblical, if that matters.
Chad Steele What a joke!
Walter Polasik I missed it, do explain, don’t leave us hangin’.
Chad Steele The article about him being racist, sexist, etc. I do not see it. The man is not perfect. Who is? Unless these men of God are? Enjoyed your response.
Ricky Grimsley The people that composed that statement must only watch CNN. Im not a big trump fan but this letter is idiocy.
Robin Wilson Taylor The church needs to repent.  Some of these preachers calling for our President to repent need to get down with him.  When you point a finger at someone else, there’s four pointing back at you.
Marc Jackson Gary Stacey It was posted by a member of the group who composed/signed the letter. The letter is signed by 39 leading Pentecostal theologians – it is not to be easily disregarded. We’ve discussed much about Obama too (double the number of posts just about same sex marriage law in 2016) You can seem them all here:  http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/?s=obama
Sabrina Morgan I am native america and I most certainly do NOT receive any monies from Casions and/or goverment. My daughter is also a college student and since our tribe is not federally recognized, I pay 100% of her tuition. Since you talk like you know all this as facts, thought I would give you a first hand account 😊
Scotty Searan Do you feel that we Americans owe the Native Americans, who are not native to this continent, but came also into America across from the east at the Bering Strait between Russia and Alaska reparations?
Sabrina Morgan I never said anyone owes me or my family anything. The Bering Strait theroy is been proven false over and over. We “Americans”, more like we “colonizers”. I am American.
Scotty Searan Sabrina Morgan Thank you for your reply, but I guess how the Native Americans got here nobody knows, that is like the global warming theory.  Debatable.  I just asked a question and you did not insinuate that.I have a friend who is part of the Creek Indian tribe and who is very knowledgeable about Indian affairs.  I mean nothing disrespectful by the the term Indians.  My wife has some Indian blood in her also.It is the way of the world the strong will survive.  There has always been wars.  That was just one of the things in settling land.  Even Indians fought and stole between themselves.I do not believe or teach that all who came across on the Mayflower and other ships were true Disciples of Jesus.  True Disciples of Jesus has never never been a majority in any country. Was the Indians done wrong by Christians, probably so.But our ancestors for the most part were not Christians.  They may have good morals and been good people, but that doesn’t make you a Christian.  Reading a Bible and Praying won’t make you a Christian.  You have to live what you READ in the HOLY BIBLE.This country was founded on Judeo/Christian ethics but that doesn’t make it a Christian country.  It just makes us a free country.
Walter Polasik Sabrina Morgan: That would be ME you were responding to. So, tell me Sabrina, you yourself aren’t getting rich or getting dole-outs. You pay your fair share like everyone else. Kudos to you, and yes, you are an American. Now, having said that, can you speak for OTHER native American groups that ARE getting money to their reservations or thick in business making money at casinos? Because guessy whaty? They’re out there. http://www.nber.org/digest/feb03/w9198.html.
Walter Polasik Sabrina Morgan: I’m not making this up. When I say “dole-outs’ I really do mean it. See, they get paid money because the government allegedly mismanaged something. Here in Philadephia, if the pavement in front of my house cracks (it’s public pavement, not really part of my property) guess who has to pay for it? Me. If a water-main breaks near my house, anywhere in the vicinity of my property. . .again, I have to pay for it. I get no dole-outs for city ooopsies. So, I’m not just reading tea-leaves in my cup and conjuring issues with Native Americans. But the moral of the story is, again, every group other than regular white folks get breaks, helps and all kinds of attention. I will stand by that because I’ve grown up through the 80’s and 90’s and watched it grow more and more plain. From Affirmative Action to Casino Transaction. Good day to you. 😉
Walter Polasik Post: https://www.npr.org/…/u-s-government-to-pay-492-million….
Joseph D. Absher So glad I stayed out of this one. I think there has to be a middle voice somewhere. I admit I don’t have it. But tonight I’m rejoicing in Christ my Saviour, reading my Bible, and praying, and thanking God for this country. And all the voices. I hope we never loose that.
Joseph D. Absher That didn’t last
Scotty Searan Walter Polasik:  You have done a good job critiquing this article.  In there first point there was actually 2 subpoints.The Treatment of the immigrantsThe Racially charged statement of racism concerning black people and murders.Let’s talk about #1 THE TREATMENT OF THE STRANGERS (IMMIGRANTS)Leviticus 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.Leviticus 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.Leviticus 24:22 Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the Lord your God.Numbers 9:14 And if a stranger shall sojourn among you, and will keep the passover unto the Lord; according to the ordinance of the passover, and according to the manner thereof, so shall he do: ye shall have one ordinance, both for the stranger, and for him that was born in the land.Romans 13:1-71 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God’s ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.Much scripture let’s talk.Treat the stranger good, because ye were strangers in Egypt.Israel sons hated Joseph because he was a DREAMER.  Even Israel had some doubts.But one day Israel sent Joseph down to find his brothers and to take a report back to Israel.  He had on that Coat of Many Colors.  He found them in Dothan.  But they had hate in their heart and wanted to kill him.Put him in a well, sold him to the Midianites and the Midianites  sold him to the Egyptians.But a famine arose in the land and the Israelite brothers went to Egypt to buy corn.  Now the brothers had no intention to stay in Egypt.  They were going back home when they got their food.  But Joseph recognized them and wound up inviting them to come to Egypt to live.The Israelites went to Egypt legally  and obeyed the laws of Egypt.  They served God, but no record in the Bible shows the Israelites (Immigrants} wanting to change laws.They were being blessed and multiplying as God said they would, but he also said they would be afflicted  But they did come out with more than what they went in with.God knew that Israel would not obey him in destroying all the inhabitant of the Promised Land.  Because they did not obey, he made allowance for the stranger.  The stranger could be an Israelite from another tribe, or it could be a total strangerNut there was one thing the stranger had to do, OBEY THE LAWS.  There was not one law for the Israelites and another for the stranger to allow them to worship other Gods or eat any food they chose.. THERE WAS ONE LAW FOR ALL.  The stranger had to assimilate, be part of, the children of Israel and partake in the rituals.Now the people back then were nomadic people, but they lived in walled cities also.  You could not go into a country without permission.Now let’s ;look at the New Testament.Paul in Romans told us to obey the higher powers (laws of the countries, not Mosaic Laws) He said it would cause damnation (being punish, put in jail or being fined)If you come into this country illegally, no matter you are a CRIMINAL, No matter the age or who you came with.Our country has NO TRESPASSING signs along our borders.Now if you have a fenced in yard with a NO TRESPASSING sign on it and I cross the fence, but I say I am homeless, Are you going to take me into your house, feed me, clothe me and let me stay?That is what Israel did.  They fed the trespasser, took them into their homes and allowed them to stay.  That is the Christians viewpoint.  That is not our countries viewpoint and laws.  Are we to take all the illegals and bring them into our churches and offer sanctuary?  Do we risk our lives to disobey the laws of the land and suffer damnation?Or Do we obey the laws of the land?Am I being facetious?  Who is the President of the United States to represent?  Christians only, who are a minority.  You cannot legislate righteousness.  That is already shown in the Bible.  That is why Jesus Christ died because it could not be purchased by keeping laws.If a Christian promotes amnesty, let them remove the fences from around their property and allow the homeless and all strangers access to their property to live.You are facetious you may say.  I have got to have my privacy.  I have the right to protect my property and pursuit of happiness.  That’s in the Constitution.Well obey the law as it is written.  Change if it needs be.  But until that day The Ministers in this article are hypocritical if they believe what they say and don’t remove there fences and allow the illegals and homeless to live on their property.
Walter Polasik “If a Christian promotes amnesty, let them remove the fences from around their property and allow the homeless and all strangers access to their property to live.” I couldn’t have said it better myself. Thank you for clarification nd simplicity. Yes. It’s not that we are against any particular people group: but the flood-tide of immigrants (illegal AND legal) has GOT TO STOP. No country can support indefinite immigration. It’s a recipe for. . . the DISSOLUTION of said country. . .oddly enough that’s EXACTLY what the Globalists want.
Kevin Wayne “If a Christian promotes amnesty, let them remove the fences from around their property and allow the homeless and all strangers access to their property to live”Lots of Christians have. I used to serve in a church that did exactly that.
Leonard Harris Gods word also says take care of your own first. Trump continues to say America first.  Holy Ghost filled person right here !
Scotty Searan Leonard Harris Here is what the Bible really says.Galatians 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.We do good to all men,ESPECIALLY THOSE OF THE HOUSEHOLD OF FAITH.  Disciples of Christ/Christians of any race.
Leonard Harris Scotty Searan just like people who believe once saved always saved. They go with one verse n believe they are right. I’m not gonna argue over this. That verse is good but it is not the only one that goes with this situation. I don’t believe God wants u or anybody else to beat Trump over the head with the Bible. God placed him there n he’s getting better all the time. He holds Bible study in the W.H.  When’s the last time has that happened? We also have laws read what it says about that .  P.S. you have forgotten the millions of dollars our Country has given other countries for years.  How come this wasn’t brought up on the last presidents ?
Scotty Searan Leonard Harris I gave you scripture and very little rhetoric.  You gave no scripture and a lot of rhetoric.  Give me scripture when you criticize.
Walter Polasik Scotty Searan Wait, wait. . .so protecting our nation, borders, economy is. . .not ok? We just let ’em all in? And what about Trump’s interesting point about those who are productive vs. those who are leeches? Do we let all leeches in and then wonder why our economy is going to crap because government is doling out our hard-earned tax-dollars to loafers?
David Vaters My grandfather founded the Pentecostal assembles of Newfoundland and he would be ashamed of this communication supposedly represent Pentecostals. Shameful! Where were these guys in the previous administrations? Stop representing the faith like this! Reminds me of the Pharisees!
Scotty Searan They were afraid if they mentioned Obama’s sinful nature and his racist ways, the blacks would leave their churches and they were more interested in numbers than the truthTHIS IS JUST ANOTHER CASE OF THE SEDUCING SPIRITS IN OUR CHURCHES.
Marc Jackson David Vaters Would your grandfather approve of a man with 3 wives, gambling business, heart of anger, lust, greed and the whole 7 deadly sins?
David Vaters Troy Day firstly “For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God”Secondly,Are you now God to Judge anyone?Thirdly, where were you and these men of God in the past 10 presidents? All of which you could say the same and worst of them!What is being said and done here is a total offence to God.Repent and pray for the leader of the country just as the bible says to do! Blessings!
Marc Jackson David Vaters I simply disagree to be a blind follower of a spiritually blind leader
David Vaters Troy Day do as you wish brother! Just curious? If not Trump who would you have had in th WH? Hillary or Bennie?
David Vaters Troy Day could you kindly answer the above question?
Marc Jackson As soon as you answer mine: “Would your grandfather approve of a man with 3 wives, gambling business, heart of anger, lust, greed and the whole 7 deadly sins?” which BTW answers yours as well
David Vaters Troy Day  I answered it in my first response! But to be clear no he would not approve of these things nor of mine or your transgressions… now your answer please!
Marc Jackson Nope you listed 3 reasons avoiding the answer. So I will answered it for your. The answer is No – just like my 3rd generation Pentecostal grandmother is not approving.
David Vaters Troy Day will do!
Walter Polasik Troy Day: You asked David Vaters’ forebears would approve of the characteristics you described. Hmmm, on reflection, minus the gambling, that kinda sounds like . . .King David! (“A man after God’s own heart”) I dunno. If we approve of David (you can’t “undo” what he did) then Trump’s a boy scout by comparison! I hear your call for leadership accountability and I agree, of course. I didn’t like Clinton’s escapades any better either (poor Chelsea). But if we’re gonna compare apples to apples . . .😎
Marc Jackson Here’s the same problem over and over again – a dilemma the Church should have never been placed in per the separation of church and stateWe have – several leaders of Pentecostal denominations – a dozen of pastors representing large congregations – some 50 Pentecostal theologians, ministers and authorsrespectfully expressing  disagreement  and protest against  oppressive policies and open sin with the current administration. Should we not listen to the voice of the Spirit speaking to the Church through these people? Or should we trust a small number of golden age posters  who are expressing   fear of losing their social security and to what cost?
David Vaters As a factual and historical note…separation of church and state was to prevent one religion to dominate the government. They did not mean that the church was not to freely influence the government and its policies and just be silent. Check out the original intent of this not what has been feed to us  By the liberals and Marxists.
Walter Polasik Troy Day: Let me flatly state it: they were NOT expressing “the voice of the Spirit”. Most of the points were Left-wing political folderdol. How is not being mindful about national security (with regards to North Korea) “of the Spirit”? Their take on “love your enemies” is just as misleading as the usual Liberal whine about “Don’t judge” (Matt. 7:1). Terrible. It was just terrible and a thinking person can see right through the snivels. (Yes, I said it again).
Kevin Wayne “How is not being mindful about national security (with regards to North Korea) “of the Spirit”?”Simple. We are to strive to the best of our abilities to live at peace with everyone. Romans 12:8 A couple of things in regards to NK: 1) After what happened to Libya following their disarmament of nukes and their subsequent US invasion, North Korea is not up for any talk of them giving up nukes, either. 2) They see the US as who developed the 1st Atom bomb & they saw what happened to Japan. You’re problem appears to be that you come from a perspective that war is inevitable.
Marc Jackson Kevin Wayne thanks for your early reply – looks like your Sunday service notes 🙂 I know you were addressing Walter Polasik but I am too about 80% sure there will be war. Like Clinton and Nixon and Bush Trump too needs a war to survive in the next 3 yrs;Your point on Libya is not alone. The Arabian spring left open a dozen of countries. However, I do think Russia and China are in cohutz to leave N Korea alone and bring the war in Syria. Turkey has just started assisting them as Ricky Grimsley had supposed And of course this is all fulfilling Ezek. 37-38 war prophecy Would the stable genius in the White House and his evangelical advisers understand these dynamics on time would determine if America will be in a war before 2020 – I give them a very conservative 80-20 chance [my 2 cents ]
Joseph D. Absher If you’re shocked by any of this you must be under forty.We all knew his only hope was the Christian right as a base. He’s got flaws and if some of the gossip is true it’s sin but from what I can tell he’s helped us. He actually might be better label an old school democrat.Also may I remind you the repeal of the Johnson Act was huge. If the preachers can find their courage and their voices now we may yet see another awakening in this country. I wouldn’t get to upset with any of this. Keep praying and doing what God called you to do. Please…
Ray E Horton As with every President, we elected him to be a government executive, not a religious leaders.  We have a commander-in-chief, not a pastor-in-chief.  Every President has had his weaknesses.  Trump is just more open and blunt.  His policies so far have been bringing positive change to the economy.  He isn’t against legal, controlled immigration that assimilates, but illegal immigration.  Nothing has worked with our North Korea policy over the years.  Maybe it is indeed time to get tougher.  Anyway, I am going to judge his presidency according to results, at the voting both after four years.  Meanwhile, we are called to pray, in spite of his faults.  May God use him for our nation.  God has no faultless man to use until Jesus returns.
Leonard Harris Very well said. Paul was a Christian killer look how God used him. Remember the Pharisees how they did things . Does this ring a bell?
Kevin Wayne ” His policies so far have been bringing positive change to the economy”I think if you look at the overall trends, you’ll find Trump is just enjoying what was set in motion before he took office. Most any POTUS deals with the 1st year syndrome – with a lot of his predecessor’s stuff coming home to roost for good or for bad: https://slate.com/…/donald-trump-takes-credit-for-eight…
Benjamin C Bratvogel This is very thoughtful….how ever the Bible teaches us to be obedient to our learders, even if you dislike them..we are to pray for our enemies also.On a final note the whole Jerusalem belongs to the hebrews is a great step and leap towards, and needs to be for the end days.Kennedy is the only other President i can thing of that was religious. Mostly the rest belong to the Masons, skull and bones, and what ever is associated with bohemium grove…just a thought
Joseph D. Absher Kennedy was a notorious adulterer. The press and the secret service covered for him. But the days of people turning a blind eye are over forever.
Benjamin C Bratvogel David was also and a murderer yet he was a man after Gods heart.Moses killed a man.Peter denied JesusMary magdalen was a whoreElijah siced two bears on 40+ boys for disrespecting him. There are many examples.No leaders are perfect.
Joseph D. Absher Yes sir. Very true. Moses looked both ways and then killed a man. Sounds like premeditated murder to me. God can change the vilest of men. Hes good that way. Very kind.I hope you don’t think I was singling out the former president. I meant the public scrutiny is very open these days. Fame is a fickle friend. Clinton used to be the hero of the left. They finally turned on him. Same old story abuse of power. Sex. Money.David covered his sin up, for awhile. Moses ran away so did Peter. Elijah what can say about him. I don’t think them boys were disrespecting old people anymore. Might be a lesson in that one…
Walter Polasik Yes, Kennedy was certainly religious sporting in bed with Marilyn Monroe. He even coined a new “Monroe Doctrine” : “After you’re done with her, pass her to your brother.” Alas, this all truly happened. Clinton went to church as well. And then there was Monica. . . .I could go on. . . 😉
Marc Jackson The Clintons carried in the White House not one but too Bible that belonged to his baptist grandmother. Many if not most Bible believing presidents were openly masons http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/masonic-bibles-and…/
Marc Jackson Benjamin C Bratvogel The question you posted as dealt with in detail by Walter Polasik is this (pure moral not political)There’s no doubt we are to obey our leaders, but which ones? Our electoral college elected (not by majority) country leaderORour denominational, spiritual, theological and church leaders? This is the question you may want to try to answer for us…
Walter Polasik Troy Day: I’ll throw another boomerang for ya. You asked, “Which leaders are we to obey?” I ask, “In which sphere?” Do our spiritual leaders have authority in governmental areas? Just as, do our national leaders have authority in spiritual areas? And, to further complicate the question, we’re Christians. Benny Hinn is a nationally recognized Christian leader. Should we obey HIM in spiritual matters? How about Joel Osteen? Or John Hagee? No? John McArthur? Nationally recognized. What do you think? How exactly, brother Day, do you intend this to work? 😉
Jerome Herrick Weymouth Not going to obey John MacArthur he’s written three anti Pentecostal books. So no way Jose!!!I do not consider him a spokesman for the Pentecostals or charismatic churches and  he is a cessationist and a calvinist.
Marc Jackson Walter Polasik Since you are asking the tribulationibus torret I will leave for you to figure out; but the situation is not easily separable like you propose, because we have spiritual leaders speaking to political problems (morals in the government, elections, political preferences, etc.) and political leaders speaking to church issues (tax, bathrooms, gender, marriage, etc )So lets call on the Bible on this oneDid the OT prophets separate or did they call kings for repentance? What did Nathan do to David? What did John the Baptist do to a very religious and stable genius king who had even rebuilt the temple? And what did the king do to him in return?Omne gestum identidem geritur
Walter Polasik Troy Day: And I would ask you. Do these pastors/petitioners measure up to be on the level of prophets of the land? Especially asking for the kinds of things mentioned in the letter? Again, it looks to me less a moral reproving (alla Nathan, John the Baptist, et. al.) and more a political plea cloaked in the garb of spirituality. (Did I just repeat my point a THIRD time? Yes, I did. so hopefully by now you get it). Such spiritual leaders shouldn’t make their requests a falsis principiis proficisci.
Marc Jackson Now that’s a question you should ask them personally
Walter Polasik Oh, and to your Latin: there should be the caveat: ad libitum, ad neauseam  ad infinitum. 😉
Marc Jackson more properly spelled: nauseam
Ray E Horton Aside from Old Testament prophets, let’s look at the New Testament.  Jesus corrected religious leaders, but did He, or Paul or other contributors to the N.T. correct the governing authorities.
Marc Jackson King of kings – no government correction there whatsoever 🙂
Ray E Horton Of course, in the New Covenant, we are the kings and priests that He is King over.  Worldly kings and government leaders we are to pray for precisely because He isn’t controlling worldly affairs in this age, and we seek God’s intervention on their behalf, that we might have good secular government with an environment conducive to the spread of the Gospel.
Walter Polasik Ray E. Horton: Brother Horton, spoken like a true wise elder. I tip my hat to you. Brother Day of course wants to emphasize the Church’s involvement in the life of our nation and wants leaders to be accountable and hear the Church’s invitation that all, small and great, live for Jesus. I applaud that of course and commend Troy for usually posting good topics. I’m glad Christians are writing Trump and that he’s also being reminded of his moral obligations as the nation’s leader, but the contents of the above letter are, at best, a mixed bag. I personally wish that if Christian leaders must “speak to power” they would have some wisdom concerning the pressing and relevant political issues of the day. Pleading for items that the Left wants accomplished hardly seems to me any kind of “swimming against the current” or “going against the grain” of worldly convenience, complicity and deceptive politics. Whatever happened to “just weights and measures”? Troy Day? (Deut. 25:15; Prov. 11:1; 16:11; 20:23).
Ray E Horton Thanks brother Walter, and I do understand Troy’s very positive motives. We do need to call people, ordinary or in high places, to the ways of the Lord.  But, I do agree with you concerning the content of the letter.
Leonard Harris Troy also brought up Trump didn’t get the majority of the votes.  Electoral college was there from the beginning. Law Of The Land . Our Founding Fathers knew that they were doing. What Troy brought up is the same as what the democrats n liberals have n still scream .
Ray E Horton That’s true!  Whether by Electoral College, direct vote, royal succession, or even overpowering dictatorship, we are told to respect the secular government.  They didn’t exactly have good government when Paul was writing his letters.  And, I agree, this letter to the President is definately politically left leaning, guised in spirituality.  Walter handled the points of the letter quite well.
Marc Jackson Fact check Ray https://scontent.ftpa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/…/27072468…
Walter Polasik Troy Day: If you work in retail as I have, you ‘ll know that citing Macy’s and Sears’ poor business has nothing to do with Trump or the TaxPlan. Those cited companies were all on the chopping block even in Obama’s time. They are ready for extinction. I worked for Sears for almost a decade, I should know ITS internal politics. (!) So the “fact check” is irrelevant.
Benjamin C Bratvogel Very irrelevant…now a days “men” are tending to lean toward quite effeminate, and i would beg to differ, if most of them even know-the differance between a spark plug wrench and a oil filter wrench , let alone there function and  how to use.Have you seen that millennial fight with that manual can opener for 3 minutes and than every one claps like she just saved a baby deer from a fire. Satan has them very confused in deed, gender fluid huh, eating a tide pod because it is attractive looking, is not an excuse. Bright colors usually mean poison so…they just want that dopeamine rush from 10000 strangers likeing them  acting like a donkey.The internet is shifting the retail game folks and wal mart is where to get the rest…
Marc Jackson wrong thread? Benjamin C Bratvogel
Benjamin C Bratvogel Nope just putting 2 cents right here ☝ but thanks. If i was to comment it would be from Eph 6…wrestling against darkness and spiritual forces in high places….there is a reason Satan is prince of the air and ruler of this earthly realm.Yet another trick…people think he is stuck and ruling hell.
Ray E Horton This was the best retail year in history, but not for many brick and mortar stores.  Online shopping is hurting them even during a good economy. consumer confidence has grown, and the stock market has been going through the roof.
Jerome Herrick Weymouth Never heard of these scholars!
Marc Jackson Jerome you’ve never heard of Keener and Amos? Are you Pentecostal ?
Jerome Herrick Weymouth I am familiar with French Arlington of the C.O.G. Cleveland,Tn., George O. Woods of the A/G, and Jack W. Hayford of  the Foursquare Gospel. Yes a Arminian, a Trinitarian, a Pentecostal and a Pastor, too.
Marc Jackson Jerome great scholars of the late 70s early 80s. Pentecostal theology in 21st century has many more new names. Most of them have signed the petition with great confidence
Walter Polasik Then they haven’t read it! Are you telling me they’re THAT Leftist? (!!!!)
Marc Jackson Such a left  comment from such a liberal
Jerome Herrick Weymouth Well we don’t have a pastor in the White House nor a crooked politican, but a business man. Who is very rough around the edges…But I’m grateful for him and glad as all heaven is that Hellerie not president.
Jerome Herrick Weymouth Don’t know how you could be a Pentecostal and a leftist, gay loving baby killing Democrat!!!
Marc Jackson Jerome you are right. You cannot. The Problem is you also cannot be a Pentecostal AND at the same timesupport a man of sin with 3 wivesstand against loving the foreigner approve dozens of lies from the top of the government agree with open abuse of women and minorities defend administration that projects regress on tax, immigration, free speech, democracy, foreign policy, a Wall, economy, NAFTA, and so onWhat Christian conservatives voted for in this election was reversal of 2016 supreme court ruling gay marriages 501c3 church tax reliefs ban on abortionsno gun controlguarantee for their social security (golden agers only, millenials well know by the time they are 60 there aint gonna be no social security)morals in the White House and governmentThis is the basis on which the deal was made for the republican nomination Guess how many of these we got after 1 year? Guess how many we will get after 3 more years?   So now, we cannot be leftist, but can we support what’s going on as Christians? This is what this  letter speaks to openly
Jerome Herrick Weymouth The only think I can say is Thank God! I’m extremely happy with President Trump. I will admit that I can never be happy with the leftist party in power.
Marc Jackson Jerome if you are happy with the man of sin in the White House so be it; but we did elect a President who made various promises related to our freedom, economy and way of life. How do we cognate them with what is actually happening in our present reality ?
Ray E Horton Troy, I’m sorry to say that I find your comment rather silly!  Any man in the White House would be a man of sin.  We have never had a President that wasn’t.  Trump is just more blunt and some would say honest.  His past faults are behind him, and I believe he is improving.  And, he is gradually learning while in office as well.  And, “what is actually happening in our present reality” is quite a bit of success and accomplishment, especially in the area of the economy.
Marc Jackson Ray E We have a special thread on the Christian response to the tax reform if you’d like to discuss economy? Which area would you call a success – rising gas prices, closing retail, delay in tax returns? Please elaborate in on the specifics that you have noticed. Have you seen any increase in your paycheck in the last year? – most Americans have seen decrease and BTW the property values are declining rapidly since mid- October Economy may be good for the large corporations but certainly not for the middle class. Sorry but Sears and Sams closing dozens of stores is not silly at all. No American should thing the return of NAFTA is silly either  https://scontent.ftpa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/…/27072468…
Ray E Horton Irrelevant!  These would have closed under any administration because of Internet competition like Amazon.  Retail is acturally way up when you add store and online buying, and consumer confidence is up as well.
Walter Polasik Troy Day: Let’s face it, you’re just a plain ol’ “never Trumper”. You don’t like him and you’re quashing anything he stands for and adding more fuel to the gleeful Leftist fire. None of us here are saying Trump’s a saint. We all remember growing up hearing his “rich boy” antics. He’s got the money he wants and the women he wants. Let’s pause there for a second. Dinesh D’Souza, high-profile Christian apologist and representative (in debates with atheists etc.). He’s got himself some good money and guess what? Recently divorced his wife and married a younger chick. Obviously he is no longer so high profile after that move. You mention Trump’s having gotten married 3 times. Hows about King David’s 7 wives? Hmmm? “The man after God’s own heart?” Samuel’s dad had TWO. Now, you mention economic issues. I’ll say it again: retail has always been sucky, especially Sears where I’d worked for 7 years. As to rising gas prices—Troy, you’re an adult without amnesia I trust, you know the oil companies do this every now and again: use whatever excuse to hike their prices and make a killing. The only thing I WOULD agree with you on is the danger of NAFTA and GATT which were instituted under Mr. Globalist Clinton and the whole concept of “free trade” being traceable to Marxist roots. But this kind of stuff was in place before Trump came into office. I’m not concerned that Trump isn’t giving a commentary on Romans in his presidential addresses. My concern is that, in the end, after all the hubbub and shouting is over, Trump will be another George H.W.Bush. Plastic smile, tough talk, quiet Globalist agenda. If that turns out to be the case, we have no democracy worth a mention in Webster’s dictionary. At that point, the only hope for freedom from “the overlords” who rule from unelected, secretive positions, is a miracle from God. I for the revival God alone can bring to this country.
Marc Jackson Actually I like Trump and asked him to run for presidency back in 2009 when most of the golden agers in this group that now defend him tought him to be a crook. But I love the Church and God more. And more and more I see Trump does not share my allegence  Nelson Banuchi
Walter Polasik Troy Day: Gee, I wonder who DOES?Goldilocks!
Marc Jackson NAFTA does – nough said – or eNAFTA said
Kevin Wayne “The only thing I WOULD agree with you on is the danger of NAFTA and GATT which were instituted under Mr. Globalist Clinton”With the help of Globalist Republicans. And a Republican successor who did nothing to roll it back.”and the whole concept of “free trade” being traceable to Marxist roots”LOL You spelled “LIbertarian” wrong 😉
Kevin Wayne http://fortune.com/…/donald-trump-economy-stock-market…
Kevin Wayne https://www.theatlantic.com/…/december-jobs-report/512366
Kevin Wayne https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/trumps-job-numbers…/…
Kevin Wayne http://time.com/money/4636761/jobs-barack-obama-presidency
Kevin Wayne Jobs added 2016: 2.2 MillionJobs added in 2017: 2.1 Millionhttps://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/ceshighlights.pdf
Kevin Wayne And now for my disclaimer: I haven’t voted for the POTUS nominee of either major party since 1988. So anyone who has allegations to make that I have a stake in this – keep it to yourself 😉
Walter Polasik Kevin Wayne: Maybe you didn’t catch this but I did name Georgie and son as Globalists, just like Clinton. And as far as Liberalism goes, even Reagan signed into law a bill enabling gays when he was governor of California. As to stopping and rolling back, we’ll see what Trump actually stops. I doubt he’ll be able to “roll back” Row v, Wade or Gay marriage. You’ll notice that Obama easily disposed of DOMA. It’s a one-way ticket bro.
Nelson Banuchi Troy Day “I love the Church and God…Trump does not share my allegence”Apparently, he never did.
Santa Nichols Praise the Lord God Almighty 🦁✝👑🔥❤
Marc Jackson Kevin Wayne Walter Polasik yalls points are well taken. I will make further comments under the NAFTA topic BUT who will pay for NAFTA and drained Social Security – not Mexico but our children Those jobs sited are not created for Americans. Neither will be the NAFTA drivers and border patrol jobs … I cite nearby VW factory that was given absolutely TAX FREE bill to build by the state. Created 0 jobs for locals – mainly imported specialists work in it today Give us the scoop Stan Insider only information please 🙂 It will still be beneficial to hear from Joseph Kidwell who is one of the authors who signed the letter
Joseph Kidwell I have been very busy, but I will address it. I know that everyone just can’t wait to hear from me….
Joseph D. Absher Do you preach repentance in your own church? Do you tell men to get right with God in your own church?  Do you preach against and adultery in your church? Do you openly rebuke the evil in men’s hearts? The men you know personally?
Joseph D. Absher Correction: “do you preach against sin and adultery in your own church?”
Joseph Kidwell You can find our statement of faith in the fb page of Greater Grace and Deliverance Ministries. You can also find sermon clips if you search for Bishop Joseph Kidwell on you tube. Have a blessed day.
Joseph D. Absher A simple yes or no is fine thank you
Joseph Kidwell I’m not on trial here, sir. You are not my God or my Bishop and I do not answer to you.
Joseph Kidwell I will first address the first point of this letter to the President. From his defense of the KKK and neo-nazis in Charlottesville to his depiction of nations of color as S&$@holes to his racist depiction of Mexican immigrants as ” rapists and drug dealers”, this President has blatantly displayed a racist attitude, thus the call for him to repent.
Joseph Kidwell The second point on the letter deals with the reckless talk coming from the President toward North Korea. The fact is, war is not an option on the Korean Penninsula. Nuclear weapons are not toys and the President’s language has brought us closer to nuclear war than at any other time since the Cuban misspile crisis.
Ira Huth Joseph Kidwell We all will be on trial when one day we go before Christ and give account of our life. We pray my Brother that you will repent of your allegiance with liberal ideology, propaganda lies that promotes an  agenda that contradicts the Word of God. Before it’s to late in Jesus name!!!
Joseph Kidwell I would suggest that you stop viewing Scripture through a secular right wing political lens and employ methods of interpreting Scripture. You ignore vast swaths of Scripture and cherry pick passages.
Ira Huth Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.   Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?   Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.   A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.   Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.   Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.Matthew 7:15‭-‬20 KJVhttps://bible.com/bible/1/mat.7.15-20.KJV
Joseph Kidwell Like I said, you cherry pick Scripture and make false applications.
Ira Huth https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2018349818454402&id=1742447562711297
Joseph Kidwell Bishop Hill blasted the President for his racist remark regarding countries of color.
Ira Huth Nice try that was a picture of Dr. Hill on a mission trip with a comment that was taken out of context. I’m 65 years old and a 3rd generation lifetime member of the COG. We doubled checked with Cleveland International office, and there has been no official statement by the COG or by Dr. Hill other than that misleading picture. That being said if there was it would be wrong, due to conflicting reports of he said it or not with denials that he did not. Being born and raised in Chicago knowing the liberal antics and propaganda from the liberal Democratic machine and Durbin with the liberal Washington Post. I as well as many others  don’t have a opinion.
Ira Huth https://www.westernjournal.com/numbers-first-trump…/…
Nelson Banuchi First we had Obama threatening our democracy…now we have Trump…https://www.facebook.com/nelson.banuchi/posts/1854329334586631?pnref=story
Scotty Searan Nelson Banuchi I don’t trust nothing Huffington Post puts out or CNN,  or MSNBC puts out.  They are nothing but liberal propaganda networks and news papers
Joseph Kidwell I don’t trust anything Fox News puts out.
Marc Jackson At least since they got rid of Megan…
Scotty Searan I like Newsmax, but all are bias, but I have never read an article in Huffington post that gives the political right good reviews.  I do trust Sean Hannity and Michael Savage
Jerome Herrick Weymouth Joseph Kidwell I only trust news that I hear from Fox News and CBN News. All the rest all controled by the demoncrats
Joseph Kidwell LOL! Fox is controlled by extreme right wing zealots.
Marc Jackson Fox is controlled by Rupert Murdoch while still living
Scotty Searan CNN, MSNBC,  CBS, NBC and ABC LEFT WING LIBERAL fake need reporters
David Vaters He has! Maybe you should think about where the 4 other fingers on your hand are pointing ….
Marc Jackson David Vaters Would your grandfather consider him a saved man?
David Vaters Troy Day My grandfather would not judge any man if he was saved or not. This really is ridiculous. So your point your trying to PROVE is President Trump is not a Christian? If so, so what? And you believe that vast majorly of presidents were Christian? Even if that were true that all Presidents including Obama is Christian, so what?Pray that President Trump becomes born again!Not rip him up or anyone else for that matter!President Trump without a doubt has been the most supportive of the Christian faith, by word and deed, then any other recent history President. If you disagree with that I’m can’t contribute anything more to this brotherly discussion.
Marc Jackson David Vaters Not trying to prove anything I simply asked if your grandfather would consider him a saved man? I know mine wouldnt
Joseph D. Absher I stayed out politics the last couple of years for this very reason. Frankly it is disturbing to see brethren so divided on worldly affairs. I suppose I’m guilty also being drawn into it. For me the gospel of Jesus Christ must go forth. We won’t get the violence out of the streets until we get the violence out of our hearts. To the issue of the “rebuke” sure it’s scriptural but I think it lacks real conviction and fire. And seems more cold and calculated than prophetic  “speaking truth to power.” I don’t think they heard from God in prayer for the man or the office. Sure sounds good though.
Joseph D. Absher I don’t doubt the writers have served their people and their conscience. In the end that will be important. They have stayed within the confines of scripture. I think the day is coming when the cry for repentance will be unavoidable. And some of the ones advocating for it now will be ushering it out the door.
Ira Huth
Walter Polasik AMEN AND AMEN! (Deut. 32:31).
Joseph Kidwell Trump is really a great example for those who value ‘faith and family’. When it comes to being a role model as a husband and father, President Obama is much preferred over our current ‘Philanderer in Chief’.
Marc Jackson A final word to this discussion It is commendable that members emerging with ideas from  this group like Joseph Kidwell Micael Grenholm and several others among our members who are not as outspoken have signed this letter calling for  repentance, righteousness and restorationWe all may not agree on all points. We dont have to. But as the Church we must agree that according to the Law of God, the prosperity of a nation begins with repentance, righteousness and restoration from the nation’s highest authority. No one, not even the emperor, is above the Law of GodWith this in mind, our friend John could have shown respect, keep silent and enjoyed  the king’s feast. After all the king was not a priest or a pastor, all kings have sins and John could have kept his pay check, tax exempt and even his head. But our friend John knew that no one, not even the king, is above the Law of God. And for this reason exposed the the king openly with the words It is NOT lawful … and lost his head for it.If you gonna lose your head, dont lose it taking sides in useless political discussions. Lose it for something of high worth – like the right of free speech; and speak freely calling both king and nation to repentance, righteousness and restoration  http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/david-franklin-a-call…/
Ricky Grimsley Did the sign any letters when we attacked Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen ,Libya Yemen, Qatar, or Syria and attempted to overthrow the governments. That letter is just another example of liberal bias that has infiltrated the church where moral outrage of personal failures fills Pharisees with rage while president after president propagates the slaughter of millions overseas. Did the sign a petition to stop Obama from dividing the country over race, or giving weapons to al-qaida. What about Clinton’s in Bosnia. Did they forget about abortion.?  Just saying get informed and don’t be lackeys for the left.
Marc Jackson http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/david-franklin-a-call…/
Marc Jackson http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/david-franklin-a-call…/
Ricky Grimsley Here is what we should be doing instead of trying to be part of Trump’s opposition. 1 Timothy 2:1-3 KJVS[1] I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; [2] For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. [3] For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Marc Jackson If you gonna ba honest, you need to show where you posted this great advice while Obama  was president
Ricky Grimsley The Obama presidency opened my eyes. I was very partisan republican until I began to do real research a few years ago. Our government has been evil along time. I’m pretty sure over the years that things of this nature have been posted.
Walter Polasik Ricky Grimsley If only Troy Day knew how to pray for presidents. . . .if only he realized you shouldn’t just be praying for DEMOCRAT presidents. 😉
Ricky Grimsley Exactly. They have all done major evils and had huge moral failures. How many years has America had without war?
Scotty Searan There is not a President or leaders in our country that I have not prayed for and will continue to pray for.   I set so many emails and letter to the WHITE HOUSE asking President Obama to repent, that I was blocked from sending any correspondence to the WHITE HOUSE BY EMAIL, LETTERS OR PHONE.Our local Democratic Congressman will not accept my letters nor phone calls or emails, because I have called on them to repent.   The Republicans will accept them.  And yes I get on their case.But the whole thing is this the Church and country needs to return to the standards that made us great.  We Need to turn to God and do what is right.Isaiah 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.Jeremiah 6:16 Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.On another Blog, there was a gentlemen who was saying that we need to return to Holiness and righteous living of our forefathers which is definitely true.  He spoke how Satan had used a tactic to deceive us Holiness people and yes many have been deceived.Our Holiness heritage definitely had the power of God from the 1800s till up into the 1970’s, I don’t believe no one can deny that.From here on out you may disagree with me.This minister spent more time about not returning to legalism and putting some of the practices down that was in legalism yet not naming one thing of how a person should live holy.The fact is legalism didn’t make us lose our power with God..Worldliness and compromise made us lose our power.  EVERYBODY IS DOING RIGHT IN THEIR OWN EYESDeuteronomy 12:7-9 7 And there ye shall eat before the Lord your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that ye put your hand unto, ye and your households, wherein the Lord thy God hath blessed thee.8 Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.9 For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the Lord your God giveth you.Judges 17:6 In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.Judges 21:25 In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.Job 32:1 So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.Psalm 36:2 For he flattereth himself in his own eyes, until his iniquity be found to be hateful.Proverbs 16:2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the Lord weigheth the spirits.Proverbs 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the Lord pondereth the hearts.
Nelson Banuchi Scotty Searan: “I set so many emails and letter to the WHITE HOUSE asking President Obama to repent…”How many emails and letters did you send to Trump asking him to repent?
Scotty Searan None.What should he repent of?Is enforcing laws a sin?
Nelson Banuchi Thought so…
Scotty Searan A least I don’t throw rocks and hide my hand.
Nelson Banuchi ??
Ira Huth https://l.facebook.com/l.php…
Joseph Kidwell Pure garbage. I stand with patriots like John McCain who attacked this memo. I stand with the FIB Director, Christopher Wray. I stand with former Chair of the House Intelligence Committee, Republican Mike Rogers who attacked it.
Joseph Kidwell …..and yes, unlike 5 Deferment draft dodger Trump. I believe that John McCain is an American hero.
Ira Huth https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2045662569011216&id=2023309424579864
Ira Huth https://stream.org/black-leaders-embarrass-sell-us-out/
Ira Huth https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156161313808024&id=121411323023
Joseph Kidwell LOL!
Ira Huth Laugh all you want, but If the Lord tarries and the socialist liberal agenda continues to force their ideology into public policy in America. Lord help us, because there could be another Civil War defending traditional  Constitutional freedoms.This article has the backing of several COG ministers  (with all due respect whether Dr. Hill agrees or not) and among several others in the faith. During the American Revolution Pastors and their congregations formed the militia to help fight against tyranny and injusticeThis article brings out the sad reality of what has been happening in America till now. In addition the sad reality that throughout the years the Church in general has stood on the sidelines doing nothing, which has escalated into the chaos we have today.  Enough is enough, everyone has to obey the rule of law no matter who you are or how much money or influence you have. Enough is enough when you have a judiciary that is legislating issues from the bench. Enough is enough when you have gay politicians trying to censor sermons in the Church, or your concern for the safety of your wife, daughter or Granddaughter in a public restroom. If someone wants to live a sinful, unrighteous lifestyle that is between them and God. But don’t try to force it into public policy, and don’t try to change the moral and just foundation and rule of law in America. https://l.facebook.com/l.php…
Joseph Kidwell A secular right wing agenda no more represents the values of the Kingdom of God than a secular left wing agenda.
Joseph Kidwell Right now, the threat posed to democracy in this country is coming from the right rather than the left. We have a President who believes that good people marched with I the Klan and Neo-Nazis in Virginia. He constantly sends out racist signals. David Duke praised his speech the other night.
Ira Huth That is where you are wrong first of all right wing agenda for us Pentecostals is the Kingdom of light fighting the Kingdom of darkness. That is quite obvious! Threat to our democracy and freedoms started way before this and other recent Administrations. Prayer taken out of the schools and public square, college campuses being indoctrinated with secular socialist world views that clearly contradict God’s Kingdom Principles, the breakdown of traditional famlies,just to name a few.But the Kingdom of light always wins in the end. God bless your in my prayers Brother!
Ira Huth This is nothing but liberal propaganda coming from Joseph Kidwell. For what to promote more division, to try to justify his choices or is he that blinded from the reality of the truth. Our President is far from being perfect, but is what  our Nation and Washington needs at this time. We did not vote and elected a clergyman, but a leader of Nation with a heart for the people.  Everyone has the freedom and the right to his or her opinions, whether they contradict the Word of God and the Fruit of the Holy Spirit. But at the end of the day we should respect each other and can living in unity for the common good of all. But for some even in the Church Clergy and laity a like just don’t want to live in peace and unity to agree to disagree. Very very sad, we need to pray for them. For this is not the image of Christ.
Joseph Kidwell His life and actions are in direct opposition to God’s word.
Jerome Herrick Weymouth Looks like Pentecostals will be fighting pentecostals….but wait they already are, some lean to the left and some to the right….Now get things correct. I don’t support abortion or gay rights. So that puts me on the side of the right….and we are not Nazis or KKK.  AND I AM AA FLAG WAVING AMERICAN. FORMER TEAMSTER, AND A retired Bus driver.
Ira Huth I lean my Brother on the Word of God within the Fruits and Gifts of the Holy Spirit. The only way to be.
Scotty Searan Joseph Kidwell You lie on the President.  President Trump said both parties were wrong.  Both caused violence.  He said if you going to criticize the violence of one side you need to criticize the violence caused by the opposing parties.The conservatives cannot speak on our campuses or have a public march without the Liberals protesting them.Every place President Trump goes, the Liberals protests with violence.Did you see those kind of protests with violence when President Obama was in office?
Ira Huth Amen to that Brother Scotty Searan, Thanks to George Soros and others who ought to be locked up for inciting violence.
Marc Jackson Dr. Joseph Kidwell back to the letter – what proof there is that Trump said these words?
Joseph Kidwell The things that he has said publicly are enough to not only disqualify him from serving as President but also not worthy of the support of any child of God. However, no minds will be changed here, regardless of what facts are presented.
Marc Jackson Well thats not what I asked. People who were saying he didnt say it are now claiming spiritual leaders who said he said it are  now saying he did not say it and so on… BUT oh well
Ricky Grimsley Joseph kidwell watches too much cnn.
Ira Huth Sad Ricky Grimsley just shows how he aligns himself with the leftist liberals. Please pray that those in the Church has a change of heart. I know I will!!!
Ricky Grimsley Possibly he is influenced by the prevailing thoughts of his church members. It certainly isn’t by the facts.
Ira Huth I’ve thought of that also, regardless we need to pray down the strongholds not just for our brother but for all people in the body of Christ that our wrongfully being influenced.
Ricky Grimsley All the politicians are probably bad. But I don’t see how liberals can call themselves Christian abortion is horrible
Ira Huth I wouldn’t go that far Brother Ricky all though a lot of them are. The problem in our politics in order to get anything done you have to compromise and or just vote against party lines. I wish I could remember what Sarah Palin who is a Pentecostal  in a interview when asked if elected how would should get things done with not being one of the good ole boys, but I can’t remember. I know there was discussion about another party, but that would be no good because it would split the ticket worse that it has ever had before. I know Senator John Ashcroft was a PK and a very good man. His father was ordained with the Assembly of God. I often wonder why he stepped down  from being President Bush Jr.’s Attorney General retiring from politics. He was a guest speaker at a Pre General Assembly breakfast for  Church of God. I wish I would of heard him speak. There was a African American male who I felt very strongly in my Spirit that would of been a real good possible candidate for President. Congressman C.J. Watts from Oklahoma. This was quite a few years back and I heard him speak. His father was a I believe a Baptist Pastor. But he got out of politics because he didn’t won’t to comprise his Christian values. It’s not easy know a days in our culture.
Ricky Grimsley Liberalism is mental illness. Abortion, well distribution and globalism are inconsistent with christianity.
Joseph Kidwell ROTFLOL! You all watch too much Fox News!
Ricky Grimsley Fox lies too. I listen to info wars and do my own research.
Ricky Grimsley If you support candidates that push abortion and gay marriage then repentance is required
Joseph Kidwell If you support a blatant, in your face racist who wants to strip people of their health care, enact a tax cut that benefits the top 3 per-cent at the expense of everyone else, demonize Latino immigrants, believes that “good People” marched with the Klan in Virginia, you need to repent.
Ricky Grimsley With all due respect, All those you said are untrue except about marching with Klan which was out of context since he was referring to most people were protesting were good people but there were some klan people there. If you think that Black lives and antics are any better than the klan you might be insane.
Joseph Kidwell My facts are on point. You and you’re kind, by identifying Christianity with this devil, have damaged the reputation of Christ’s Church. Trust me, you and you’re kind will answer to God For your participation in and cooperation with evil.
Joseph Kidwell I now will exit this group of backslidden, racist, bigoted professing Christians for good. I have better things to do with my time.
Ricky Grimsley There is no racism here. You are just blind sir.
Ricky Grimsley If you preach a social justice type gospel at your church it is you will answer for causing division instead of being a peacemaker.
Joseph D. Absher As to the point as stated by the Reverend Bishop Joseph Kidwell “we can’t have war on the peninsula”I’m against war. Any rational man is. But you have to know war is always an option. In fact it is preferred above tyranny. The time and place is entirely on the aggressors. And we are not the aggressors in this long conflict. A missile over Japanese islands is apparently preferred by you than course talk by the commander in chief. You sir may know the know the collar and the robes but little of brass and cordite.
Ricky Grimsley
Marc Jackson when we cross THAT riverAin’ go’n’ to study war no mo’”
Joseph D. Absher There is no denying Trump has problems. Real problems. But the day of the cover ups and the blind eye are over. It is very much like God to expose sin. I suppose it’s necessary at times. I welcome it. Just as long as it’s not mine. lol.That’s all I’m saying be fair.
Marc Jackson yap – same with the old preacher marine right here Went to Nam a young feller Stayed there 10yrs after the war. Came back and was enlisted in Korea flying smoke on the water. When the war was over took a walding job in Iran and stayed there until they told him was too old for war 🙂 My church aint gonna be no Texas church shooting stats Ricky Grimsley we treat our intruders with real nice service around here Our greeters are well trained
Joseph D. Absher Problem is no one is to old to die. And war kills the young as well as the old.
Ricky Grimsley What intruders. We keep blowing people overseas.
Marc Jackson yet your TX churches get attacked like nothing
Ricky Grimsley Our church is also well armed.
Marc Jackson No coal mining no more. Promise not kept
Joseph D. Absher The Army has a strange affect on a man. I guess our pot smoking commie pinko hippie friends are limited for context.
Ira Huth Little fact checking there  Brother Troy Day i do believe according to Brother Perry Stone and others from coal mining county it’s coming back. Or in the process. If and when I get a chance I will try to look it for you.
Joseph Kidwell Yea, Ricky Grimsley, the fault must lie with those Black folk that I pastor. Smh….
Marc Jackson Joseph Kidwell a post well worth reviving
Ira Huth More like a post that is very sad, shameful and grieving. Some in the Body of Christ instead of acting in the image and attributes of Christ and the Holy Spirit. Our acting more in the image and attributes of the Enquirer. More like the World giving a foothold to Satan and his demonic forces. Playing right into his hands, into his playbook. Therefore acting more in the image and attributes of evil.AND I’M NOT TALKING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE ISSUES ARE TRUE OR FALSE, RIGHT OR WRONG ECT.. VERY,VERY SAD, VERY DAMAGING TO THE CHURCH. AND VERY DAMAGING TO EACH INDIVIDUAL’S REPUTATION NOT BEFORE MEN, NOT IN THIS WORLD. BUT IN THE WORLD TO COME, IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD BEFORE CHRIST. UNLESS THERE IS REPENTANCE. THAT IS MY HOPE, MY MOTIVE, MY HEART AND MY PRAYER.IN JESUS’S BLESSED NAME AND GLORY.
Joseph Kidwell Ira Huth, i’m proud to have signed that document & whether you believe it or not, I have the Holy Ghost.
Ira Huth
Dan Irving I avoid any so-called Pentecostal Church that engages in activism whether Left or Right.  NO MAN THAT WARRETH ENTANGLETH HIMSELF WITH THE AFFAIRS OF THIS LIFE, THAT HE MAY PLEASE HIM WHO HATH CHOSEN HIM TO BE A SOLDER.” (II Tim 2:4)  At the time I repented, I got out of politics, based upon those words of Paul.  Activism is a spirit not of God.  I know.  I’ve indulged it.  It distracts the mind from things holy, enflames the flesh, makes strange bed-fellows, and leads us to violate God’s word in a great many respects.  Political activism is not of the Holy Spirit.
Joseph D. Absher Agreed, politics and so called activism is robbing the church of her passion and purpose and power.I don’t fault men for getting involved in our community and nation but it’s not the gospel.
Marc Jackson Lack of church involvement gets preachers arrested for public preaching Every action has a reaction
Dan Irving If you tell me what Jesus did on the Cross, you may lay hands on me.  If you’re going to rail against rulers, keep them in your pockets.
Ray E Horton I believe the key word for us in 2 Tim. 2:4 is “entangle.” It’s the Gr. word “empleko,” meaning to inweave or entwine.  So it seems to me to mean more than simply “involvement.”  We live in the world, but are not of the world. We are ambassadors  here. Like Jesus, we are to love the world, but not the ways if the world.  As such, we cannot, must not avoid being involved in the world, just not entangled in its ways.  We need to be an influence for Christ.
Dan Irving Ray E Horton An influence for Christ?  Of course.  So long as by that, you mean walking in the fruit of the Spirit and standing for the truth of Christ.  But to construe that as a license for political involvement is, I believe, is contrary to scripture and (as Joseph says, above) robbing the church of is passion/purpose/power.
Ray E Horton I don’t believe “political involvement” is contrary to scripture, as long as it is not entanglement.  I believe we are to take a stand on issues and support elected official’s good positions, as long as that doesn’t entrap us. While I generally vote Republican and consider my political leanings as Conservative, I am bound to neither, and try to be supportive of positions that I see as right from a Biblical perspective.  That being said, I am sure that so-called “activism,” depending on how it is defined, can very well be “entanglement” and a distraction from our godly witness.
Marc Jackson Dan Irving but the church is still involved and avoidance does not change that. Worst of it all the church is involved via kingdom-now theology nad this involvement seems to not only not worry most in this discussion but it pleases them and some even see it as divine ?
Dan Irving The Kingdom Now people are not our example.  However, they do offer a good bad-example of the danger of mixing politics with our faith.  This just came up on another Group:https://pcpj.org/…/shane-claiborne-on-his-charismatic…/
Marc Jackson https://pcpj.org/…/shane-claiborne-trump-is-the-result…/
Marc Jackson One MAIN reason for this post was the intense church involvement in political issues and elections via the so called kingdom-now theology often associated with NAR and others Kingdom now theology resonates in the so called Social Gospel made prominent in Latin America in the 60-70s as a cause for several socialist revolutions. Representing the so called Jesus-the-revolutionist is puzzling in modern day America to say the least, nevertheless it’s American theological variant of  Liberation Theology has become a prominent rightists ideology BUT what would it lead to?  http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/connection-between…/
Dan Irving Your site is red-flagged as “dangerous” and “malicious” on my screen.
Dan Irving
Dan Irving And now, both your post and your link are red-flagged.
Dan Irving Correction:  Your comment and your link.
Dan Irving In fact, all of your links under this post red-flag Pentecostal Theology.
Dan Irving Troy Day, Are you a Zuckerberg victim?
Ray E Horton Troy, I had noticed a while make that McAfee gives a warning when trying to go to your webpage. Just checked, and that hasn’t changed.
Joseph Kidwell It’s not red flagged on my screen.
Marc Jackson Ray E Horton  McAfee  is out dated. What is the date of the warning? Probably 2012 when the webpage did not even exist
Scotty Searan I do not believe in the Kingdom now theology.
Marc Jackson Scotty no one is saying you do personally, but it is so conveyed by the general push of the Christian church to participate actively via the evangelical vote. The result: good politics leading to a weaker church Nothing thus far has lead to church advancement
Scotty Searan Troy Day I agree with you it has not led to the advancement if anything the church is traveling further backwards by condoning some of the things and not addressing the issues of our nationYou may remember the scriptures about lay hands suddenly on no man because you may prefer be partakers of their evil deeds
Benjamin C Bratvogel Great that Pentecostals do this…for the laying on of hands shall heal, not aware of any others that are faithful and holy spirit enspired.
Marc Jackson Should have been paid attention to in regard to Syria Joseph Kidwell
Paul Hughes WHERE OH WHERE is your perfect presidential candidate, Troy Day?
Marc Jackson You shall have no other Gods but me.You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.Respect your father and mother.You must not commit murder.You must not commit adultery.You must not steal.You must not give false evidence against your neighbour.You must not be envious of your neighbour’s goods. You shall not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to your neighbour.
Joseph D. Absher I’m sorry I ever got pulled it this one. Some of the things I said weren’t very friendly. And too heated, I can admit that. I’m sorry.
Marc Jackson Joseph Kidwell I’d also like to point this one again on tax day Scotty Searan https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/…/caesars-coin-very… Your response to the article pls Jan Dixon Sykes
Jan Dixon Sykes First, what are pastors from Canada, Sweden, Philippines, & Taiwan doing telling us how to run our country? ………. Second, Fox is no different than MSMBC.  They are both corporately owned.  And are just two faces of a left/right battle the elites wants us to fight instead of uniting and fighting THEM.  We should be battling a vertical war, not battling each other. …………….. Third, the whole thing with illegal immigrants is they are invaders, not assimilators.  They are bringing their socialism and Sharia Law and we are letting them.  Our culture is Americana: Capitalism with upward mobility, a Judeo-Christian Justice system with proportional penalties, a dollar currency, equal rights for women, the English language, private property rights, a whole Bill of Rights.  People who move here and assimilate (including being self-sufficient without taking someone else’s job) are welcome.  Those who don’t are invaders and need to leave. …………….. As for what is “Christian,”  Yes, we are to show hospitality to those PASSING THROUGH, but Jesus also gives us the parable of the Good Samaritan.  The Good Samaritan put the “foreign” victim up in a near by hotel.  He never took him home.  We need to give foreign victims safe spaces or whatever.  But the left thinks that means our corrupt govt should send billions to foreign corrupt govts.  Or bring them here and let them establish enclaves different than our existing culture.  Not working. ……………  If you are in charge of a church, step up and get your congregation to sponsor aid directly to the victims instead of plawning off your duties to the corrupt Uncle Sam. Never understood how a party who believes power corrupts and ultimate power untimely corrupts keeps handing more and more power to a far-away, corrupt federal govt.  If you like govt, you’ve got a State govt.  Use that one.  Even so, you’re unequally yoking with nonbelievers to achieve your goals.  Better to get another church to go in with you.
Louise Cummings He really needs prayer right now. Odor protection.
Marc Jackson Jan The leader of the free world affects the whole world. Then the 3-4 you cited are exceptions; most if not all who signed the letter are good Pentecostal theologians from the good ol USA like Joseph Kidwell for example who has explained it to you well
Ricky Grimsley I doubt any of them would have signed a letter that would have went to Hillary or obama.
Marc Jackson neither claimed to be saved during their campaign
Ricky Grimsley They both did.
Marc Jackson They did not claim to be getting saved while the campaign was taking place as a token of how Christian they were; neither was anyone fulled they were saved Christians
Ricky Grimsley Hillary has always claimed to be a Methodist christian. Trump has alway be episcopal
Marc Jackson Ricky Grimsley Presbyterian I think where his family attended Maryanne Macleod, Trump’s mother, immigrated to the United States as a strict Presbyterian. She seems to have become broader in religion in later years, but she ensured that all of her children were raised Presbyterian.Nevertheless Trump’s salvation was not claimed until under Paula White during the months of his campaign. I do not know of any other president who was said to be saved during his campaign and thus gained the evangelical votehttps://www.washingtonpost.com/…/1dc3a830-bb1a-11e7…
Ricky Grimsley Yeah Presbyterian
Marc Jackson his BORN-AGAIN experience was used by Dobson to launch the “Christian” backup and get evangelicals on board. And it worked
Jan Dixon Sykes Liberal Carter parlayed his “born again” status to get conservative evangelicals.  Turned out he helped undo a secular Iran.  Gave our Panama Canal to Panama, so a Wall Street bank could get its loan paid off sooner.  He came straight out of the Council of Foreign Relations globalist organization. ………… Trump grew up in Norman Vincent Peale’s Power of Positive Thinking Church.  Hence, we get the “yuge, most beautiful, best” superlatives.
Marc Jackson Carter did not claim he was saved during his months of campaigning. He claimed he was saved prior. Not sure if his liberal is more or less of Trump but what we do know is that Trump played the “I just got born again” card during his campaign. OR the kingdom-now preachers told him to do so since the born-again was in 2011 according to Paula “When I get elected president, . . . Christianity will have power.”These were Donald Trump’s words to his evangelical supporters in his speech at the Dordt College rally in Sioux Center, Iowa. And the evangelical ecclesiastical establishment was one of his targets. And I must admit, I enjoy the spectacle very much. However, THE EVANGELICAL ESTABLISHMENT GOT TRUMPED, AGAIN
Jan Dixon Sykes Please show me where Trump during his campaign ever said he got “born again” or even “saved.”  He did say he would he would remember the evangelicals.  And he has.  He undid the Johnson Act, giving them their voice back without fearing losing their tax exempt status.  He is moving the embassy to Jerusalem.  He was the first sitting president to go to the Temple Wall, ratifying the USA thinks the disputed territory belongs to Israel.  He addressed a pro life March.
Marc Jackson
Ricky Grimsley Any man that refuses to to repent isn’t saved.
Marc Jackson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3l0e6nS9oI

5 Comments

  • Troy Day
    Reply September 9, 2019

    Troy Day

    Joe Absher Jim Price Nelson Banuchi NEVER FORGET

  • Joe Absher
    Reply September 9, 2019

    Joe Absher

    The letter from two years ago? Not the revival I’m looking for. No thanks. Not interested.

    • Troy Day
      Reply September 10, 2019

      Troy Day

      wasnt it last year? how time flies – how many remember

    • Joe Absher
      Reply September 10, 2019

      Joe Absher

      They’re your crowd. The so called “doctors of divinity” ask them?

  • Troy Day
    Reply September 10, 2019

    Troy Day

    how can we forget it ? Nelson Banuchi

Leave a Reply

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.