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How often do you SIN?
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Troy Day
is this even positional? RichardAnna Boyce
Troy Day
is the question of the ages Charles Page
Charles Page
If you know when you last sinned you are probably willfully intentionally sinning, you make sinning a practice. That seems to be the greater problem.
Is there forgiveness for willful intentional sinning?
Ray E Horton
Charles Page All sin has already been forgiven. The sin that keeps on separate from God is unbelief. All sin is forgiven, but it is the repentant heart that chooses to receive that forgiveness. Otherwise those living in intentional sin will have miserable lives inthe here and now.
Charles Page
Otherwise??? elaborate
Philip Williams
However often you are sining, stop it!
Charles Page
Philip Williams can you stop unwilful sinning?
Charles Page
Adam sinned willfully – He could have refused and not sin!!
Philip Williams
Charles Page Jesus Christ can change you. Read 2 Peter. His divine power gives us everything we need to become saints.
Cursed be Reformed theology which will lead you to Hell. If you are truly a Pentecostal, you would already know that.
Charles Page
Philip Williams, I’m not Reformed however there are many Pentecostals who call themselves Reformed.
Philip Williams
Charles Page If you don’t believe in Holiness, but in the necessity of sinning, that’s an essential aspect of the Reformed view stemming from Martin Luther and John Calvin.
Charles Page
Philip Williams but not John MacArthur …he holds to lordship salvation
Charles Page
Philip Williams btw I believe in holiness
Philip Williams
Charles Page Lordship salvation isn’t the same as Holiness which they falsely claim is salvation by works.
Charles Page
Philip Williams I know that
Holiness is second work in salvation
Not achieved in new birth/ regeneration
Philip Williams
Charles Page the blood of Christ redeems us but to be holy we must die with him to this present world and rise with him as a new creation, sons of God who are led by his Spirit. Are you dead to this present world? Have you sold all to follow Christ?
Charles Page
Philip Williams yes I have, have you?
Philip Williams
Of course! How much did you sell to follow Jesus?
Troy Day
both of yall aint right
Ray E Horton
We all sin daily! Anything that we do without faith is sin. But, for anyone Born Again, sins are not imputed to us, our spirits having been made righteous, which is what God is looking at.
Troy Day
not all of us Melvin Harter
Jim Price
I have often pondered the oft used, we all sin daily, used mostly by baptists. But I think that is not accurate. Some go long periods of time without sinning while others commit sins by the minute. What about a child? What about a person under anesthesia for several days? Then I have met people who keep such a close watch on their thoughts and actions that I would be hesitant to say they sin daily.
Troy Day
I dont sin daily Thank you very much
RichardAnna Boyce
Troy Day Boasting is sin brother. Romans 7:18 NKJV –
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
Ray E Horton
We must remember that whatever is not of faith is sin. Entertaining wrong thoughts even momentarily can be sin.
Then there are sins of ommision. “Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin (James 4:7).
Good thing we don’t have to keep track of our sins under the New Covenant. In fact, we become more like what we focus on. Thus, we don’t focus on sin, but on Jesus, who took our sin. That way, by the overflow of God’s love, we overcome more sin accidentally and unawares than we ever did by focusing on sin and trying hard.
Eddie Burdick
How often do you listen to the Holy Spirit and convict you of sin and righteousness? And how often does 1st John 1 and 9 works in your life unto righteousness and how disciplined are you in your flesh and your spirit?
Troy Day
tell us – how often?
Eddie Burdick
Troy Day
Eddie Burdick
I don’t think there is a amount is there?
Eddie Burdick
There is only one s i n and that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit but Jesus did not give a rough estimate Troy this is why he is a personal savior he works with you personally
Troy Day
Eddie Burdick I perceive you are not fully sanctified
Ray E Horton
Full sanctification has to do with our perfected spirit, and how God sees us.
But, none of us have arrived at the soulish level (mind, will, emotions), which is why we are told to “work out” our salvation, thus becoming more and more like who we have been made to be in our spirit.
Eddie Burdick
Yes in position in Him
Troy Day
Philip Williams Charles Page seems like you are both sinning right now if you ask me
Philip Williams
Troy Day ??
Troy Day
Philip Williams Its easy – all men sin by default and require penance
Philip Williams
Troy Day If they haven’t been saved from their sins. Have you heard the good news of Jesus?
Troy Day
Philip Williams have you heard about saved people still sinning ?
Philip Williams
That’s an oxymoron. Saved means saved from sins.
RichardAnna Boyce
believers have been saved from the PENALTY of all sins; and are being continuously saved from the POWER of sin. We will finally be saved from the PRESENCE of sin.
Troy Day
Philip Williams I perceive you are not fully sanctified
Philip Williams
Troy Day
Give me your list of the fully sanctified on your list.
Troy Day
Philip Williams I can start with Melvin Harter
Philip Williams
Troy Day I want to know more about him. Tell me.
And is Troy Day on your list?
RichardAnna Boyce
Troy Day perceptions and seeming judgements are sins brother; especially when you boast you can live a day without sinning; it is then God allows devil to be His sheep dog to drive you back into His sheep pen of abiding in Jesus.
Troy Day
NO Philip Williams it is NOT an oxymoron but makes some look like a moron – do you not believe that saved people sin and fall off grace? In Pentecostalism it is called backsliding – if you are a baptist catholic who believe in eternal security that explains a lot of what you’ve been saying lately about the elect being left behind
Philip Williams
Troy Day some time I’ll explain the Calvinism roots of the very idea that those awaiting salvation are already saved though some one time conversion.
Troy Day
Philip Williams explain it to Tyler Lee Price
Tyler Lee Price
Troy Day dude, those who are in Christ are secure in their salvation. The only time their salvation can be broken is by apostasy. The Christian life is a constant battle between the flesh and the Spirit and sometimes, the flesh wins. Those who are in Christ and have not gone apostate, however, are secure in their salvation. “BACKSLIDING” does not tear someone’s salvation away from them.
Scripture makes that clear.
Troy Day
Tyler Lee Price dude? How is anything of what you are saying Pentecostal at all? Are you a calvinist
Tyler Lee Price
Troy Day you’re grossly misrepresenting Calvin.
I’m not a Calvinist, I’m an open theist, but I will argue with you that backsliding does not tear someone’s salvation from them. Apostasy, on the other hand, does.
Again, I ask you the same question. How is any of what you are saying Pentecostal?
Troy Day
Tyler Lee Price No I am NOT grossly misrepresenting Calvin. I simply asked if YOU are a calvinist
Tyler Lee Price
Troy Day have you read the institutes carefully? Because our conversation from last night proves to me that you haven’t.
Troy Day
Tyler Lee Price SO because I asked you are question you cant answer I am the bad guy 🙂
Philip Williams
Tyler Lee Price “Backsliding is apostasy.”
Troy Day
Tyler Lee Price To answer your question I read most of Calvins works in the original latin perhaps before you were born
Tyler Lee Price
Troy Day you’re building a straw man argument.
I’m saying that you are either misinformed as to the original ideas of Calvin or you are informed, but misrepresenting and building a straw man argument to make a point.
Troy Day
Tyler Lee Price I am building NO argument – I simply asked a question you cant answer That’s all
Tyler Lee Price
Troy Day I answered the question. I said that those things don’t define Pentecostalism, therefore what I said is neither Pentecostal nor non-Pentecostal.
Troy Day
Tyler Lee Price which proves my point that what you saying is not even Pentecostal – what exactly is your purpose in this Pentecostal theology group?
Tyler Lee Price
Troy Day what I said is neither Pentecostal nor non-Pentecostal, as those things I discussed do not define Pentecostalism.
My purpose in this group, as an educated Pentecostal, is to clearly and precisely define and articulate a Pentecostal theology of both practice and mission, as well as a pentecostal pneumatology.
Troy Day
Tyler Lee Price what Philip Williams asked you above
Tyler Lee Price
Troy Day he didn’t ask me anything.
Tyler Lee Price
Troy Day
“let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. For if we go on sinning /deliberately/ after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,”
Hebrews 10:22-26 ESV
“for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.”
Romans 3:23-25, 28
“because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.””
Romans 10:9-13 ESV
Justification is by grace and faith alone, sanctification, however, is grace, faith, and works-based.
Philip Williams
Tyler Lee Price
“My purpose in this group, as an educated Pentecostal”
Tell us your age and about your education.
Tyler Lee Price
Philip Williams
21, I’m currently in my undergrad, but I’ve done a ton of research and writing at the collegiate level since I was 18 and became a Christian.
Philip Williams
Tyler Lee Price
Nice. Where are you studying?
Tyler Lee Price
Philip Williams Lee University. I’m part of the McNair Scholar’s program there as well. I plan on going to Duke Divinity or Princeton for my Th.M and Ph.D.
Philip Williams
Tyler Lee Price that will be good for communicating the gospel. But you will have to learn to become a Christian directly from Jesus, our only teacher.
That will cost you more than your scholarly education. It will cost you everything. But it’s well worth the investment.
Tyler Lee Price
The Spirit talks, I listen.
Troy Day
In my day going to liberal Princeton was a sin As for Duke I;ve only used their MSS library onsite
Philip Williams
What our theological traditions say means absolutely nothing, What is generally believed today means nothing. The only thing that counts is what Jesus and the Scriptures say.
Troy Day
I bet your Pentecostal grandma do not believe what you just said as related to Pentecostalism
Philip Williams
Troy Day what grandma said means nothing.
Troy Day
Philip Williams Scripture says it does 2 Tim 1:5
Philip Williams
Troy Day In Philippians, Paul does not assume that he himself has yet taken hold of salvation.
Troy Day
Philip Williams I cant argue with that either
Philip Williams
Salvation is yet to come:
Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Troy Day
the point you just made with the youngin dude feller hit the nail on the hed
Ray E Horton
I see salvation as three-fold. It is complete in our spirit man, where we are perfected already with the righteousness of God in Christ. That is how God sees us.
Secondly, our salvation is in progress at the soulish level (mind, will,emotions), as we gradually grow, becoming more and more like our spirit man as we see who we now are in the mirror of God’s Word and are gradually transformed from glory to glory. It’s a lifetime process.
Thirdly, our salvation will be completed when we graduate from this life and receive our glorified bodies, of which healing is a down payment and a foreshadowing.
What counts for eternity a believer already has, a full saved spirit. What counts for daily living and growth in holy, Christ-like living is salvation in progress, as we work it out.
Philip Williams
Paul uses the example of those who were delivered from Egypt yet who rebelled and perished in the wilderness as an example for believers of the New Covenant.
Troy Day
I;d like to think we’ve crossed Jordan by now
Philip Williams
“crossing the Jordan” might happen when you die. Or else when Jesus returns.
Troy Day
Philip Williams not what EARLY Pentecostals believed preached and lived for
Philip Williams
Troy Day Early Pentecostals depended on and lived for the Lord. Unlike so many Proud Pentecostals (PP) today, they were open to new revelation and more understanding. That’s why they became Pentecostal. Early Pentecostals had been Methodist, Holiness, Catholics, Quakers, Atheists, and a few even Baptist.
Troy Day
Philip Williams you now sound like a late Pentecostal
Philip Williams
Troy Day have you read the bios of early Pentecostals?
Troy Day
I have but have you? Larry Martin has a great series on this
Philip Williams
The idea that one is now “saved” does come from Calvinism. It developed from the New England Puritans who examined coverts as to whether they were called as being among the elect and therefore could own the covenant and take communion. According to Calvinist theology, if they were among the elect they were indeed saved. The revivalist of the Great Awakening took a born again experience as assurance that one was among the elect. Hence, the experience came to be reckoned as assurance of salvation.
Those Puritans who started baptizing those who had such an experience became known as Separatist Baptist. They came to North Carolina where the great Baptist revival took place. “Getting saved” entered the vocabulary.
Philip Williams
Read Ezekiel 18 if you think that one can assume they are saved.
Philip Williams
The vast majority aren’t going to be saved. Narrow is the way that leads to salvation and few find it.
Troy Day
hence the RAPTURE
Philip Williams
Troy Day non sequitor
Troy Day
you probably meant non sequitur
Philip Williams
Troy Day you my spell check
Troy Day
Philip Williams just the latin teacher in me
RichardAnna Boyce
Were saved from penalty of sin (justification); are being saved from power of sin (sanctification); will be saved from presence of sin (glorification).
Philip Williams
RichardAnna Boyce cursed be your manmade theology. You will be held accountable in the judgement.
Philip Williams
Ray E Horton, thank you for the rebuke. The comment is literally true. I was reading him in the light as he himself reads this, claiming that everyone who ever claimed Jesus will be saved no matter how filthy they live and no matter how much they may later deny or curse Jesus.
Troy Day
Philip Williams how do you unsaved Christians but claim Christians are not yet saved?
Philip Williams
Troy Day Jesus came to save the lost.
Troy Day
Philip Williams going to Sunday school level?
Philip Williams
Troy Day to git you to understand, I got to git on your level.
Troy Day
Philip Williams you contradict yourself
Jim Price
When you say the vast majority won’t be saved leads me to the debate on abortion and to Solomon’s thought that it better not to be born.
Philip Williams
Jim Price What is your thoughts concerning Noah’s Food?
Philip Williams
Jim Price
“For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?””
1 Peter 4:17-18
Jim Price
Did you mean flood? If so it’s Monday and my brains a little foggy so I’ll pass on this.
Philip Williams
Jim Price maybe you are more righteous than Christ who died on the cross to save us from our sins?
Or maybe you are wiser than God, not supposing that sin is such a problem in creation and thus doesn’t even need atonement?
Jim Price
Don’t understand your attitude; no one who knows me personally comes across that way to me. Don’t know what I’ve written that would make you think that I am proud and pompous.
Philip Williams
“After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,” 1 Peter 3:19-20