Are We Worshiping Worship?

Posted by Библията Тв in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

Are We In Danger Of Worshiping Worship?

The question needs to be asked: Are we in danger of worshiping worship?

The mood. The atmosphere. The melody.

The crowd. The emotion. Your favorite worship leader. Your favorite speaker.

The band. The performance. The feeling.

Are we being moved by the right things? Are our hearts aimed in the proper direction?

The problem with our worship culture is that we equate worship with an experience, a moment.

We end up loving worship more than we love God. We end up talking about worship more than we talk about God.

Our culture has made worship an end in itself, rather than what it should be – a way of life with Christ at the center.

But when life is chaotic, what do you turn to? When crises hits your life, what worship songs are you singing?

The Distracted Worshiper

I’m not advocating we create boring, terrible music or rid our gatherings of emotion. This isn’t a time to point the finger, listing all the churches, record labels, and artists who are doing it all wrong.

I’m issuing a caution – a warning to guard our hears from loving worshipmore than we love God.

The image you see on the top-right isn’t just a nice image. Cameras focus. They block out all distractions and zero in on what is most important in that moment.

Imagine hiring a photographer for your wedding who was so distracted by the scenery that he never took any photos of you and your spouse.

Not only would we call that unprofessional, we’d call it ridiculous. As a camera focuses in on a singular object, a special moment, so your life should frame itself around Jesus Christ.

But with good intent, many of us are running around focusing on anything and everything but God Himself. It’s as if Jesus is enthroned before our eyes but we’re taking Instagram shots of the throne itself.

We’re more enamored by the gifts and talents of God’s people more than the Creator of all things.

If we took away the music, the songs, and the artists, would we have anything to say to God?

Are We In Love With The Right Thing?

If you were alone in a room with Jesus Christ, what would well up from the depths of your heart? What would you say or feel? How would you respond?

Can you talk about worship music for hours but have nothing to say about who God is in your life and what He is doing?

Do you know all there is to know about the latest worship album but barren when it comes to knowing Scripture?

I’m not here to guilt you. I want you to know God. I want you to have a history of seeing God move and seeing His promises at work in your day to day.

I don’t want you to look back on the glory days of your faith. I want each day to bring new perspectives, adventures, divine appointments, and experiences that show the reality of God to the world.

That’s why the Biblical understanding of worship needs to be kept paramount in our minds.

How True Worshipers Experience Art

Being impressed by talented people and feeling good through the force of their performance is not enough. The wise worshiper will enjoy that, bless that, encourage that, but will also see through it to the Giver of all gifts.

The true worshiper learns to sing through the storm – cry out through the confusion of life.

The true worshiper knows how to scour the Scriptures for daily bread.

The true worshiper knows how to pray.

The true worshiper isn’t just moved by powerful music. They are moved by the weight of God’s glory. They are hushed by the magnitude of His presence.

It’s not that great art is wrong or unnecessary. The worshiper of God just knows how to use it. It’s never an end in itself but a gateway to seeing more of the glory and perfection of God.

C.S. Lewis says it better than I ever could:

“The books or the music in which we thought the beauty was located will betray us if we trust to them; it was not in them, it only came through them, and what came through them was longing. These things—the beauty, the memory of our own past—are good images of what we really desire; but if they are mistaken for the thing itself, they turn into dumb idols, breaking the hearts of their worshipers. For they are not the thing itself; they are only the scent of a flower we have not found, the echo of the tune we have not heard, news from a country we have never yet visited.”

Question: How do you guard your heart, your team, your church from loving worship more than loving God? How do you use your full talent in the local church without swaying the hearts of God’s people away from Him?

Let’s talk in the comments. You can leave a comment

83 Comments

  • Reply October 2, 2016

    Charles Page

    we’ve gone through faith in faith now it is worshiping worship!!!

  • Reply October 2, 2016

    James L Alldredge

    There is a definite strain of Pentecostal practice that elevates worship to form of spiritual currency. Many have turned the action of worship into a transaction for personal or corporate profit. Are far as I know “worship leader” is not a New Testament office…However this is not unexpected in that we have done a similar thing with the written forms of God’s Word we call bibles, also not a New Testament practice…We are not to chase a special feeling, try to get or generate “spirit” bumps as proof of God’s presence and power in our midst, we are to accept by faith that He is present and act accordingly…the worship of worship and the worship of a book, (or a particular version for some) is mistaking the means by which we approach God for being God Himself.

  • Reply July 28, 2017

    Dan Irving

    What we are seeing is the development of the distortion of worship in which sensual stimulation is required to invoke emotion/feelings. I thought this was pretty much a basic concept that Pentecostal ministers understood and took caution against. But sensual (some call it “soulish”) worship seems to be moving from the charismatic/Third Wave groups even into the mainstream Pentecostal denominations, unfortunately, due to a lack of discerning leadership.

  • Reply July 28, 2017

    Terri Tippins

    I agree. The introduction of worship leaders manipulate worship by the type and tempo of songs that they play. We have more worship to music than we do prayer. I have seen the unsaved get into worship services like veteran Christians. Praise and Worship services have taken the place of soul searching repentance and prayer.

  • Reply July 28, 2017

    Walter Polasik

    I have long been saying this. I’ve seen real revival and God’s presence move upon congregations. I’ve also seen the manipulation. This is “Pentecost without the Spirit”. It’s the sham that has been foisted upon a gullible, biblically illiterate and unsuspecting Charismatic church. the Spirit and the Word are tied together. Also what we are seeing today is many main-line churches who want the contemporary worship music (really, the Praise and Worship style begun in the late 70’s) but don’t, at the same time, want the real moving of the Spirit to go with it. They want the numbers and church growth that Pentecostalism has produced ….without the heartbeat of Pentecostalism: the Spirit Himself. Meanwhile, non-Pentecostals and Cessatinoists take delight (and rub their hands together) at pointing out the phoniness and ridiculous things that go on in the name of Pentecostalism. Just as Jonathan Edwards did, we must fight a two-front war against the “careless zealots” on the one hand and the skeptics and critics (Charles Chaunceys) on the other. William DeArteaga has a great couple of chapters on this in his book, “Quenching the Spirit”.

  • Reply July 28, 2017

    Ira Huth

    So what can be done? You say we must fight a two-front war. How?

  • Reply July 28, 2017

    Terri Tippins

    Walter, I appreciate your comment as well. I have caught myself repeating the phrase that the Pentecostal Church isn’t what it used to be. Of course, most People are puzzled by that statement because they have no knowledge of old fashioned Pentecostalism. Sure, we sang alot but we didn’t have praise and worship leaders. We had a choir leader. And he/she didn’t have a four year degree in Music. I remember even as a child being in Church till 2 or 3 o’clock in the morning. They were praying not playing. They weren’t trying to put together the next playlist for the next praise and worship service. I have been on the receiving end of a healing. I have been on the receiving end of prayer warriors praying a spirit of oppression off of me. That was the real power of God working through Holy men and women. Back then I could point to prayer warriors……we knew who they were. Today that’s not so easy.

    • Reply July 28, 2017

      Walter Polasik

      Terri, keep up the faith, there are more of us than you think. God is always ready to pour out genuine revival. He will never let it get so bad that the working of HIs Spirit will disappear from the earth. I believe God is getting ready to allow two things in America. 1.) Persecution of Christians. This will happen because society is getting darker. Real Christians will then have to “stand up and be counted”. It will mean loss of jobs, imprisonment, perhaps even violence. Standing up against “gay rights” and the like will be the litmus test for sure. but 2.) in the midst of the persecution, God is also going to pour out real revival. Contra TBN and all the fakery, the world will see real miracles and changed lives. The fire of judgement against America will also burn but the fire of the Spirit will burn alongside with it. One thing I can almost guarantee: It will not be the lulled, sleepy time we’ve known since the late 90’s.
      As for the old ways. the beautiful things is that the Holy Spirit is never old but ever fresh. He will continue to do what He has always done both in the hearts of people and at the altars of churches. After a while, even the Baptists will get it. (Hey, it’s happened before, remember?) . . . .

    • Reply July 29, 2017

      Terri Tippins

      Thank you Walter! I wish I had the gift to put together an awesome comment like that! 🙂 I am ready for Revival Brother! As I have said in a few comments, the power of God is not free it will cost us something. It might cost us the things you mentioned above. I long for the times when the church would gather together and pray and you did not hear words but instead you heard a mighty rushing wind. We have recordings of this and I love it! I want that again! I want Holiness back in the Church. I want healings back in the Church. I will just be a greedy pig and say I want everything that God said we could have……and more! 🙂

    • Reply July 29, 2017

      Walter Polasik

      Terri Tippins You’re not wrong for being “greedy” of those things. You are saying as Moses said when he began to comprehend the awesomness of the One he was dealing with. He cried out, “Show me your glory!” And God did. His promise is still true to the Church no less than to the unsaved. “You will seek me and find me if you seek me with all your heart.”

    • Reply July 29, 2017

      Scotty Searan

      That is what I want. I remember those days. I go to a church where you see people getting healed. It is small. But God works in the small churches.. The Holy Ghost still speaks.
      I have seen the Holy Ghost presence so strong that it looked like smoke in the church and there were no foggers producing the smoke.
      I have seen the Holy Ghost go across the congregation like a wave.
      I have seen dead people come back to life.
      I long for that day again, but it comes with a cost, Terri Tippins and Walter Polasik.

    • Reply July 29, 2017

      Walter Polasik

      Dead people come back to life? That I’ve never seen. I’ll grant God can do it but how do you mean? I’ve heard of “clinical deaths” and such….

  • Reply July 31, 2017

    James L Alldredge

    Worship Leader is not a New Testament office, we are seeing a revival of “Davidic” style worship that was associated with the OT temple, (praise teams, dance teams…etc) This leads to the desire to see the “manifestation” of the presence ala the Shekinah cloud which by nature leads to chasing the sensual experience rather than the transformative experience NT worship is supposed to be, (Spirit and Truth)

    • Reply July 31, 2017

      Walter Polasik

      But this has always been the problem with Pentecostalism: the seeking of the Gifts more than the Giver.

    • Reply July 31, 2017

      James L Alldredge

      To a degree Penetcostals have always been more sensual than mainstream denominations, this is not in itself an issue when done in the Spirit, the problem comes when we try to recreate the experience without the Spirit, we substitute emotion and volume for anointing and spirituality

    • Reply July 31, 2017

      Walter Polasik

      James L Alldredge You’ve hit the nail precisely on the head! That’s EXACTLY what’s happening in the Church today. And it started when the main-stream church began to hijack Pentecostal Praise and Worship for their OWN services but didn’t want the moving of the Spirit there. No raised hands in worship, no waiting on the Spirit, no praying at the altar. Just a big “jam session” to bring the youth in. And then what happened? “Backdraft” (what happens with fire due to air influx): The “wind” wafted back into our Pentecostal churches and the youth, instead of seeking God the old-fashioned way and waiting on His Holy Spirit to move, just did what everyone else was doing and had rock concerts and jam sessions. And here we are today. Oh, and of course there’s no shortage of Charismatic hucksters who manipulate the crowd and get them riled up, pretending that it’s the Spirit.

    • Reply July 31, 2017

      James L Alldredge

      As in all things I have learned to reserve judgment until I see the fruit that it bears. In this case I have seen many who shout, jump, dance fall and run on Sunday live the same compromised, defeated lives throughout the week, this is sure proof to me that whatever “spirit” they were in at church it was not the Holy Spirit. At the same time however, there is a rising generation of Spirit led and empowered worshipers who are seeking the Father in spirit and truth, who are being transformed by their intimacy with Jesus and are the testimony that despite the best efforts of the counterfeit spirituality so prevalent in the church there is still real Pentecostal power for those who willing to give up self and sin.

  • Reply February 25, 2019

    Varnel Watson

  • Reply February 26, 2019

    Isara Mo

    Jesus nor the apostles walked around with guitars yet the gospel was spread…
    Very unfortunately we sometimes subtly shift into idolatry thinking to be the norm.
    Without worship you can’t worship is the adage you find in most services but it it true?
    Every human heart enjoys listening to music…and I gues we all.enjoy singing but personally I think silent meditation for the greater part is better worship…

  • Reply February 26, 2019

    Tim Dalton

    I believe many are or at least we like good entertainment.

    • Reply March 1, 2019

      Isara Mo

      Tim Dalton
      We love ” entertainment”.
      I used to spend nights at discos before I left that world but i find it here..wow

    • Reply March 1, 2019

      Tim Dalton

      Isara Mo and it has been for years. They heap up teachers to scratch the itching ears.

  • Reply February 26, 2019

    Tim Dalton

    The song that I never want to hear is a song of sentimentality of being raised in church and the desire to be buried with loved ones near the church..

    Come to the church by the wildwood
    Oh, come to the church in the vale
    No spot is so dear to my childhood
    As the little brown church in the vale
    How sweet on a clear Sabbath morning
    To listen to the clear ringing bells
    It’s tones so sweetly are calling
    Oh, come to the church in the vale
    Come to the church by the wildwood
    Oh, come to the church in the vale
    No spot is so dear to my childhood
    As the little brown church in the vale
    There she sleeps close by the church in the valley
    Lies one that I love so well
    She sleeps, sweetly sleeps, neath the willow
    Disturb not her rest in the vale
    Come to the church by the wildwood
    Oh, come to the church in the vale
    No spot is so dear to my childhood
    As the little brown church in the vale
    There close by the site of that loved one
    Neath the tree where the wild flowers bloom
    When farewell hymns shall be chanted
    I shall rest by her side in the tomb
    Come to the church by the wildwood
    Oh, come to the church in the vale
    No spot is so dear to my childhood
    As the little brown church in the vale
    As the little brown church in the vale

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8Ojam9JA7I&ab_channel=VinylCountryMusic

  • Reply February 26, 2019

    Tim Dalton

    So the church sings about the Church. Oh the heights of Idolatry. Where is Jesus in this.

  • Reply February 27, 2019

    Joe Mungai

    The new Testament church has no position called “worship leader”.
    Neither does the concept of “a worship service” exist in the New Testament.

    What we have is the saints gathering together to break bread in fellowship.

    • Reply February 27, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      OT clearly has leader of worship – high singer that was transferred into the NT church See Psalms

      Not only NT has “a worship service” but Paul and others specifically write how one should be conducted

    • Reply February 27, 2019

      Joe Mungai

      Er…there is no evidence that old testament practice has been transferred to our time.

      I am in no way looking down on the Psalms, nor am I advocating for a songless gathering. I am just suspicious of what music has become.
      In many places music has overtaken the word of God and the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
      This is completely unscriptural.
      And the hype, the manufactured results, the chanting, and the worldly dancing and prancing is so empty, the sensual appeals to the flesh and a complete negation of the spirit.

      That is what I am against.
      That most of these worship leaders aren’t even filled with the Holy Ghost.
      That they don’t even have time for a personal walk with Jesus.

      Besides that, Christian Worship is not music. It is a lifestyle. Worship is not one compartment I have in my heart, worship is co extensive with my life!

    • Reply February 27, 2019

      Tim Dalton

      Troy Day I think if saying Paul and others specifically wrote something, It would be academic to actually show what they wrote.

      Plus a worship service is not a worship leader. Don’t confuse the two in an attempt to get tradition across. Stick to the subect without dragging in the red herring as seems to be the way when many can’t back up what they say. Simply Teach the bible simply without double talk and chasing rabbits.

      Saying an OT office has been transferred to the NT without bibllical proof is very dangerous. If it could be, we would still have the high priest sacrificing animals yearly for the sins of the people instead of :
      But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, Hebrews 10:12

    • Reply March 1, 2019

      Isara Mo

      Joe Mungai
      Man has to activate himself, to kind of get a ” high” so that he can enter Gods presence..(if it there)
      Paul and Silas worshipped God and sang without a ” praise team” and the place was shaken.
      We shake our places of worship with ultra modern musical equipment to ” stir ” God..
      What a difference..

    • Reply March 1, 2019

      Joe Mungai

      None of what you have just written is biblical nor Christian. But it’s very, very spiritual.
      God is Active, not passive. To imply that He can be roused like a smoke, or a microwave dinner is shocking.

    • Reply March 1, 2019

      Isara Mo

      Joe Mungai
      So sorry if you misinterpreted my words…
      I just wanted to show you how much effort we put on entertainment rather on Word..
      When entertainment not Word
      takes a greater part of service time there is a problem brother…
      When you see people praise and worship for two hours non stop but begin to doze before the preacher even begins to speak sth is amiss..
      When i say we shake our places of worship with musical instruments kind of ” stir” God I speak symbolically….
      Remember how long the prophets of Baal called to Baal at Mt Horeb almost the whole day and there was no response (they tried to stir Baal)and how Elijah called his God just once and his God answered..?
      But why add meat to my words?Why twist my words to fit your viewpoint?
      I didnt imply that God can be “stirred”)like a smoke..or a microwave dinner…
      The words Unbiblical, Un Christian and shocking which you have added are hasty provocative…accusative…..

    • Reply March 1, 2019

      Joe Mungai

      As to twisting words to fit preconceived narratives, we both know who is guilty of that. But that is a twist for another day.

      I have a major problem with how you expect me to support you in labeling the worship of God’s people as “stir God up symbolically”.
      How could you?
      Are you now become so proud as to call the worship of God’s people anything but holy!
      Have you forgotten the fate that befell the sons of Eli? They mocked the worship of God’s people and God was not amused!

      No!
      The singing in churches is not Baal worship!
      This is blashphemy.
      And I am appalled that you expect me to support you.
      I don’t support you. Not now, not ever.
      We sing unto the King immortal, invisible, the only wise King.
      And though God’s people err, we correct in the spirit of love and humility, watching ourselves too.
      Pride is that leaven that leavened the angel Lucifer and made him Satan.
      We are not together in this. Nope.

    • Reply March 1, 2019

      Tim Dalton

      Joe Mungai I believe a lot of music is emotionalism and not real worship. That makes what befell the sons of Eli not always applicable. Much of the music is for the entertainment of the singers. While some is to God, not all is.

      Consider the sons of Aaron Leviticus 10: 1 and the strange fire relates to many things offered to God. The Hebrew word translated “strange” means “unauthorized, foreign, or profane.” God not only rejected their sacrifice; He found it so offensive that He consumed the two men with fire.

      After Nadab and Abihu were killed, Moses explained to Aaron why God had done such a harsh thing: “This is what the LORD spoke of when he said: ‘Among those who approach me I will show myself holy; in the sight of all the people I will be honored’” (Leviticus 10:3).

    • Reply March 1, 2019

      Joe Mungai

      Nadab and Abihu yes
      Baalim, no.

    • Reply March 2, 2019

      Isara Mo

      Joe Mungai
      Loud music no notes makes no sense.
      We don’t have anything here to get so fired up…
      This is a spiritual group not court room where one stands to judge the accused.Even in court there is civility.
      I can see you have great zeal for God and well versed in Scripture and English(this is a second language to me if it was my mother language I would be in a position to debate and defend myself) but because of this I don’t have the muscle to argue with you..
      Sorry brother if my words have offended you so bad…apologies.
      Ningeieleza kwa Kiswahili labda ungenielewa..
      Halafu unafanya makosa makubwa kudhani kuwa nina kiburi…
      Far from it..

    • Reply March 2, 2019

      Joe Mungai

      Just don’t compare church worship to what they was doing with Baal.
      You may try and point to me as overzealous, but your comparison of Christian worship with Mount Carmel is wrong my friend.
      If you know and other people do not know, don’t curse them and imply what they are doing is akin to raising Baal. By doing this,you are dangerously close to blashphemy.

      Also, in these discourses, please avoid attacking a person’s character. It is wrong. Handle the issue at hand.
      To imply that I have no argument but a lot of English and a lot of Bible is to skirt around the issues.
      Just don’t say Christians and Baal worshipers are similar. They are not.

  • Reply February 27, 2019

    Tim Dalton

    Joe Mungai – agreed In 1 Cor 14:26, Paul talks as though he expected songs to be contributed by a variety of people, not just selected by one worship leader.
    1 Cor. 14 :26 states What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. or How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
    Of course nobody was a holding overhead projector button either. They didn’t seem to have one person picking the songs as I believe 1 cor 14 tells us.

    Eph 4 11-12 has a list of ministries in the church

    11And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,——————
    I didn’t see worship leader in the inspired list.

    Worship is bowing humbly before God and exalting Jesus Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords. He must decrease and He must increase.

    Now having a song leader, provides the modern pew warmers to get their weekly “blessing” and be entertained often. They can now even get off the pews. That must be a blessing in itself.
    I think the bible in the NT shows the list of offices which even the pitiful pentecostal eisegesis can’t miss, at least on purpose.

    • Reply February 27, 2019

      Joe Mungai

      I have always felt….felt….I said felt; not dogma, not a vision…. felt….that the office of the prophet is the office that would go really well with the music ministry.
      This is because during the music time(worship time), God’s people are open for Prophetic ministrition…..
      This is my feeling.
      The Prophetic goes really well with the music ministry….I also see that the gift of tongues sometimes comes out in a song, a spiritual song….and it is prophetic….
      My thoughts

    • Reply February 27, 2019

      Tim Dalton

      Joe Mungai that is why it is corporate worship under the leadership of the HS. All have a part and be so well taught that it is done in decency and order.

  • Reply March 1, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    I think early Pentecostal worship was pretty much the same as what the Early Church did outside of the synagogues

    • Reply March 1, 2019

      Tim Dalton

      wouldn’t facts be something better to base your opinion instead of subjective thought.

    • Reply March 1, 2019

      Joe Mungai

      Troy Day I think so too. I do not have facts, but early Pentecostalism is the closest to biblical Christianity.
      Personally, I believe that the Pentecostal faith is the only claimant to genuine Christianity. I have reasons.

    • Reply March 2, 2019

      Tim Dalton

      Joe Mungai you are basing it on guesswork only. That is not the way to get the truth.

    • Reply March 2, 2019

      Joe Mungai

      This is why the both of us used the phrase “I think”. Its a thought in the mind.
      But then again, we have the mind of Christ ☺️

    • Reply March 2, 2019

      Tim Dalton

      Joe Mungai — I understand that, but wouldn’t a few facts that led to your “I thinK” be helpful to all. In theology a “I think is just a phrase to I have no clue , but I must answer’

    • Reply March 2, 2019

      Tim Dalton

      Joe Mungai So when are you going to start using the mind of Christ and not your fallible human mind. We have the mind of Christ and He has revealed His wisdom in the bible. If you claim you have that mind, then use the bible and not your own mind.

      and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 2 tim. 3:15

      That salvation includes every aspect of our new life in Christ. Thus the scriptures makes us wise, if we search them above all, even our traditions and teachings from man.

      I see so very little bible centered true theology in here. The bible tells us about foolishness in many places. Please do a real study on it. here is a start.

      For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 1 Cor. 1:25

    • Reply March 2, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      I think we got our worship from the Methodists

    • Reply March 2, 2019

      Joe Mungai

      Troy, stop thinking.????

    • Reply March 2, 2019

      Tim Dalton

      Joe Mungai It is never a joking matter, when you are trying to get truth from the bible. It is just a silly way of deflecting the fact that you are not able to accept truth besides your own thinking and correction.

  • Reply April 12, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    here we go Steve Phifer Alan Smith Joseph Steven Girdler The mood. The atmosphere. The melody.

    The crowd. The emotion. Your favorite worship leader. Your favorite speaker.

    The band. The performance. The feeling.

    Are we being moved by the right things? Are our hearts aimed in the proper direction?

    The problem with our worship culture is that we equate worship with an experience, a moment.

    • Reply April 13, 2019

      Joseph Steven Girdler

      Troy Day , good point made. The Bible says The Lord looks across the earth for hearts turned toward Him so He might bless them. My book address the concept (which certainly believe) that we the church can proactively offer our hearts (in worship) of excellence in preparing our services for those who will -to have their hearts turned toward Him. He is so worthy. He is Sovereign. He is ~ God. I pray those in our communities, lives and families who do not know Him, will be attracted to what the church offers -and upon their arrival it will be – their day of true worship. Pj

    • Reply April 13, 2019

      Charles Page

      several decades we were Bible worshipers, we worship the earth, we worship humanity and we worship pleasure just as well worship worship.

      You would think someone would have come up with the notion of worshiping Jesus.

    • Reply April 13, 2019

      Steve Phifer

      Joseph Steven Girdler Something or someone is always standing ready to occupy the center of a “worship” service. The Lord Himself should always occupy that place just as He does this minute in the Heavenly Zion. He is the ONE who knows how to minister to everyone in the House. Our job as the Holy-Royal Priesthood is to minister to Him with our Sacrifices of Praise. We minister to Him and He ministers to us and the people who have gathered. https://tinyurl.com/y2vd7o7t

    • Reply April 13, 2019

      Link Hudson

      I read a post on someone’s feed where a guy said if you haven’t felt the presence of God you are not a Christian. He seemed to be a ‘feeler’. I am not against feeling God’s presence but I believe it is wrong to add such conditions on salvation and I don’t see the emphasis on feeling God’s presence in the Bible though I hear it from some Pentecostals and Charismatics.

      I believe we should praise God to please Him and to edift
      Y others in the church whether we feel God’s presence at a particular time or not.

      There are also those who think worship leaders are to usher us into God’s presence. I do not see evidence in the Bible of the early church having worship leaders or for Old Testament chief musicians having that role. Regular Levites could not go into the Holy of Holies and they certainly were not to usher the congregation in there.

      Some see the extrabiblical worship leader as a kind of intermediary between God and man.

  • Reply April 13, 2019

    Alan Smith

    Not in danger, already there

  • Reply April 13, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    I spoke on the topic just recently It USED to be that revivalists and healing preachers accented on God in the meetings and His presence providing miracles. This time is gone and the power is long lost Instead we have better sound, better acting, lighting even better liturgical content in the service BUT the POWER aint there no more and we are just going through the motions playing church Joe Absher

    • Reply April 13, 2019

      Isara Mo

      Troy Day
      //Whenever the spirit from God came on Saul, David would take up his lyre and play. Then relief would come to Saul; he would feel better, and the evil spirit would leave him.
      1 Samuel 16:23 /
      David was an anointed person and when he played his lyre relief came upon Saul and an evil spirit left him….
      What power…what anointing…
      Better sound, better acting, better lighting, better liturgical content in the service BUT….the POWER is gone…or rather it is absent.
      I think that inspite of our excitement and emotions in worship. carnality holds sway, it is what permeates ” most worship ” today and that is why there is no power…..
      Jesus said you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you…
      One cord from a spirit filled finger like that of David is enough to heal depression and drive a demon away(my opinion..not Biblical)…
      The Bible says where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty….because the Spirit is the Lord.
      Sober observation Troy Day…going thru the motions playing church.I know most people wouldn’t like that comment …
      But that is the truth…
      Gods presence and its effects can never be hidden…when it is there it is there and when it not you cannot stir it up with better sound…better acting or liturgical content.
      But Troy Day must the power of the Lord be there ALWAYS in every worship…service?
      Luke 5:17 ???

    • Reply April 13, 2019

      Isara Mo

      Troy Day
      //One day Jesus was teaching, and Pharisees and teachers of the law were sitting there. They had come from every village of Galilee and from Judea and Jerusalem. And the power of the Lord was with Jesus to heal the sick.//

    • Reply April 13, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      BUT ALSO David worshiped in the temple, up the steps and when abroad asked to bring the ark of the covenant before him

    • Reply April 13, 2019

      Link Hudson

      Some of the Charismatics have an emphasis on this, but there is also the idea that the music sets the stage and creates the right atmosphere for miracles. Benny Hinn crusades give us an example of this.

    • Reply April 13, 2019

      Link Hudson

      A problem I have seen with the music idea is that there are some preachers who think loud music brings the right atmosphere, and then have music played so loud people in the audience can’t hear, or at least the hard of hearing can’t. Equating a certain kind of music with the presence of God can be problematic. Elisha did call for a minstrel on one occasion. I suspect the minstrel may have stopped when he prophesied, or at least did not blast the sound so loud that they could not hear him speak.

    • Reply April 13, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      never met no preacher who thinks that-not once

    • Reply April 13, 2019

      Eddie Burdick

      When I was in the Philippines they averaged almost 2 hours and it was anointed not just talented.

  • Reply April 13, 2019

    Link Hudson

    Are we in danger of prostrating to prostration? Is there a strong translator tradition of translating a word that means prostration as ‘worship’?

    • Reply April 13, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      a little Greek here would go a long ways

    • Reply April 13, 2019

      Link Hudson

      Troy Day I’m echoing concerns often shared by Bill Thurman B-Greek former UNC chair of Classics. A felliw aquaintance of Philip Williams

    • Reply April 13, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      cool guy – had a killer discussion with him many years ago on Liberating.the.Aorist” in Codex Bezae Probably over 20 yrs ago or so

    • Reply April 13, 2019

      Link Hudson

      Troy Day do you think he is wrong about proskuneo?

    • Reply April 13, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      being prostrate? – NO – best possible rendering in English Means lit. face to face

    • Reply April 13, 2019

      Link Hudson

      Troy Day kiss the foot literally right. But brother bearded Bill argued it means prostration. Seems to be the case in Revelation. Says same of Hebrew equivalent.

    • Reply April 14, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      uuuh kiss the foot would be more of metaphor of the actual action described, but bowing face down to the ground is more like it

    • Reply April 14, 2019

      Link Hudson

      Troy Day soyou agree

  • Reply April 13, 2019

    Joe Absher

    To be fair i don’t listen to a lot of worship music. Every now and then old hymn comes to mind and I look it up. I like the old choruses. “Nothing but the blood of Jesus” and a few others that help me draw near to God to bless his holy name. A good worship song can carry you. For me the worship team is a holy ministry. The pastors I’ve had insisted on making practice, regular church attendance and no funny stuff. I’ve always respected them for that. And we need their help. Sunday morning is the only time some people experience God. The prayers of God’s people, the ministry of God’s Word, the love we have for each other, and good worship all help us when we get down or weak.
    But I don’t know what you mean by power Mr Day except maybe to swallow that pride and cast down the rebellion and do right. That’s God’s power and saving grace. Jesus has lots of power along those lines, cleansing power, redeeming power, keeping power. And I know there’s much more…

  • Reply April 15, 2019

    Nora Neel-Toney

    That is a good question to ponder. Personally I do not specifically care for flashing lights. Most of the the music is much too loud as if they are in a bar or a dance where worldly music is played. Then the apparel is not always appropriate for church and especially in the pulpit, along with all the twisting. Some movement is ok but some I have seen especially with the women wearing very tight pants and low cut tops were not appropriate. It is distracting especially for the men. Yes I’m old fashion however I believe the House
    Of God should be respected at all times.
    The music so called Praise and Worship music is worldly and has the best of worldly music.
    There is nothing wrong in having different musical instruments in the church as it is scriptural. I enjoy some of the more modern day praise and worship music but sometimes it is carried to the extreme and sounds like a rock band.

  • Reply April 15, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    have you been @ a hillsong church Nora Neel-Toney?

  • Reply April 15, 2019

    Charles Page

    visit a Church of God service and you will experience Hillsong

    • Reply April 15, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      from what Link Hudson is saying not really

    • Reply April 15, 2019

      Link Hudson

      Troy Day I do not understand what you mean by that comment.

  • Reply April 15, 2019

    Nora Neel-Toney

    I’ve visited many different churches. COG, nondenominational and others

  • Reply April 15, 2019

    Nora Neel-Toney

    I use to enjoy Hillsong but haven’t listen to them in awhile

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