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Библията Тв | PentecostalTheology.com
Why am I NOT a Calvinist? REASON #8
God’s choice not to act graciously toward others when God could, denies the goodness of God or at least impugns the reputation of God as a God of love and grace and goodness.
How can God call us to love our enemies and God not do the same? How can God be capable of saving all and not save all if it is God’s choice and not ours?
WHY AM I NOT A CALVINIST? #ourCOG REASON #1 Free… | Pentecostal Theology [08/04/2015 3:10 PM]
[…] REASON #8 God’s choice not to act graciously toward others […]
Jon Ray
God’s choice not to act graciously toward others when God could, denies the goodness of God or at least impugns the reputation of God as a God of love and grace and goodness Charles Page
Charles Page
God has never chosen not to act graciously! Still there are people who will insist he does choose ‘not to act graciously’
He acts graciously toward those who blatantly resist Him. His grace is irresistible.
Jon Ray
Exactly! Thus free will which Calvinism denies is God acting graciously toward human kind. Grace is Resistible and many have fallen from grace – hence we have sanctification Charles seems to agree with that too http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/why-am-i-not-a-calvinist-reason-6/
Charles Page
God acts graciously toward his election (not universalism) Grace is irresistible by the elect. many of God’s elect are never sanctified and some of the sanctified will loose their sanctification (all God’s elect are justified, regenerated and glorified)
Jon Ray
Ancient MSS declare that the popularized difficult reading/singing of first line in the second verse “’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear” was originally recorded as: “Twice taught this grace my heart to fear.” It is quite apparent from this ancient sola-red-back-hymnala that the idea of once-saved-always-saved was foreign to the author. Quite the contrary, he introduces the idea of two-grace-touched, clearly a poetical reference to first and second works of grace. Rick Wadholm Jr
Josh Golden
The issue is God could destroy every human being on this planet and still be good he did that once ya know oh except for 8 people. People just don’t like being clay.
Jon Ray
Do you feel that all but 8 were created for destruction?
Josh Golden
Would they have been destroyed otherwise, how sovereign is God?
Jon Ray
So do you feel that all but 8 were created for destruction?
Charles Page
there is your Calvinism!!!
Josh Golden
They were destroyed so obviously that was the plan.
Jon Ray
And this is where Pentecostal soteriology departs from baptistic Calvinsm
Josh Golden
So it wasnt the plan? God killed all those people by accident?
Varnel Watson
He killed them because they chose to sin. Not because they were preordained to be killed. There!
Josh Golden
So when he talks about his decree that he declared things from the beginning did he not declare the judgment of those wicked people or did his entire decree, fall apart when Adam fell and everything after that is him fumbling about trying to pick up the pieces.
Charles Page
That’s it – a God who “fumbling about trying to pick up the pieces”
Charles Page
most theology is that the Church will put it all back together for God and then he’ll return to rule.
Josh Golden
So God needs us to fix the world for him, I dont see that in scripture would love to see where they get that.
Charles Page
when we finish preaching the gospel then He’ll return. I heard that all my life and it will be preached for maybe 10 more years then theology will change for the good.
Josh Golden
I mean no disrespect but are you saying Christ will return in 10 years?
Charles Page
Josh Golden That is when the church runs out of finances and will necessitate a theology shift.
Josh Golden
Ya i’m not really sure what you’re getting at lol
Charles Page
Just running my mouth.
I believe there is coming a major theological shift
Josh Golden
I would say so too but i’m not sure if we agree on the shift lol
Jon Ray
Josh Golden it seem your questions drive the discussion to (a relative) open theism Ricky Grimsley
Josh Golden
Open theism is a more consistent view but its completely unbiblical. All the arguments against calvinism are never scriptural it seems they come from emotional or philosophical perspectives.
Jon Ray
“All the arguments against calvinism are never scriptural it seems” – It just seems that way http://cupandcross.com/recommending-dr-george-voorhis-new-book/
Ricky Grimsley
Open-theism is only unbiblical if you try to change the plain reading of the texts. Either the bible is true or it isnt. The bible says God learns, god changes his mind, and he has emotions. Calvinism isnt biblical and Arminianism isn’t consistent.
Jon Ray
It could be an interesting discussion if we begin departing from elementary TULIP and discuss the praxis of Calvinistic theology both in his days and today. There is a reason Arminius and Wesley came about as corner stones in Holiness theology. There was a reason why Wesleyan holiness renewal is the foundation of Pentecostal thought. And that reason simply is that Calvinism extreemed into the domain of unbiblical. However, if we are to indeed begin an in depth theological discussion on Calvin we should perhaps start with Augustine and his own catholic estrangement from theology proper CrossTheology For starters how could Calivin / Augustine type of eschatology be in any way Pentecostal? http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/can-one-be-a-pentecostal-calvinist/
CrossTheology
Josh Golden Open Theism can be backed up by Scripture. The other views have to twist Scripture. crosstheology.wordpress.com/an-apology
Jon Ray
The OP “Why am I NOT a Calvinist? REASON #8
God’s choice not to act graciously toward others when God could, denies the goodness of God or at least impugns the reputation of God as a God of love and grace and goodness.” has little if any at all to do with open theism
Jon Ray
I find Chadwick to be a poor rendering of Augustine’s Confession
Charles Page
You believe in original sin?
CrossTheology
Yes there are more modern and better versions but it’s what the author of that article used and it’s good enough to make his point. 🙂
Jon Ray
“The goal of purification is to become like God in order to see God.” I think here you mean deification from Eastern Orthodoxy theosis but for that a much broader observation is needed than just Western theological application. What’s this source you cite “John Piper, the Profane”?
CrossTheology
It’s an excerpt I took from a website article